Are Teachers Low On The Food Chain?

[Felix Lynn]

I was at a party recently and a man living and working in Thailand said that foreign English teachers reside close to the bottom of the food chain in Thai and expat society. He went so far as to suggest that they are no better than your typical sexpat. Although smiling, he said it with a distainful twinkle that struck me rather harshly, having previously taught English for two years in Thailand.

But, then again, teachers here are a bit of a mixed bag.

What does current crop foreign English teachers think? Are you bottom feeders as was suggested?

[Neeranam]

Of corse not Felix.

Yes there will be some sexpats who try and pass as English teachers. I've worked with some pretty bad cases in my time, in fact I was one myself once. Living in a shit apartment, drinking cheap 'saeng som' daily and hanging out with cheap prostitutes. Scruffy, old clothes, etc. not giving a <deleted> about the students.

Then again why are most teachers I know embarrssed to say that they are teachers? Teaching for most people in Thailand is something that we do when we can't do anything else, or time out for a year or two.

For the money that schools offer, what do you expect?

I've met lots of "expat non-teachers" who are full of shit. The guy you were speaking to sounds like a real ###### with some issues.

Like saying all "expat non-teachers" are top of some food chain just coz they earn big money.

Bet he was middle aged, ugly and bald with a beer belly.

English teachers are looked down upon by some but not the Thai society, just ###### esxpats who have some kind of inferiority problem.

[Felix Lynn]

This guy did have a particular distain for English teachers. I wasn't clear why and didn't ask. But I'm curious how teachers view themselves in Thailand. Is it the low pay that makes them feel embarrassed to say they are a teacher? When I taught English in Thailand, I had not problem telling anyone who wanted to know. I enjoyed it. It paid the bills and never really felt like it was "lowly" or anything like that.

While now I do have a different sense of how some English teachers are viewed, I was struck at these strident views. Maybe it was just this guy who has the problem with English teachers or has had some bad experiences with them. As a former teacher, the comments were certainly annoying.

[taxexile]

felix lynn

What does current crop foreign English teachers think? Are you bottom feeders as was suggested?

neerenram

Of corse not Felix.

nuff said !

[Ijustwannateach]

<And we will do without them. Offensive post deleted....KK>

We can probably do without posts like this in the teaching room.

"Steven"

Edited September 5, 2005 by kenkannif

[DJ Moore]

I was at a party recently and a man living and working in Thailand said that foreign English teachers reside close to the bottom of the food chain in Thai and expat society.

Just putting my 2 cents worth in here. Last being in the LOS over 12 years ago........I remember distinctly Teachers in Thailand were held in very high regard., whether Thai or not.

Have things changed that much?............... DJM

[Ijustwannateach]

I was at a party recently and a man living and working in Thailand said that foreign English teachers reside close to the bottom of the food chain in Thai and expat society. He went so far as to suggest that they are no better than your typical sexpat. Although smiling, he said it with a distainful twinkle that struck me rather harshly, having previously taught English for two years in Thailand.

But, then again, teachers here are a bit of a mixed bag.

What does current crop foreign English teachers think? Are you bottom feeders as was suggested?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your post is like waving red flags in front of bulls as far as trolls are concerned, but it is worth discussing.

I've met with a few snarky reactions in the past when I've been introduced to people and discussed what I did. Fortunately, while being proud enough to look down on me, they are also usually bright enough to realize they are no match for me (or many other teachers that I know). People who are snobs typically become so defensively, usually as a result of a lack of talent, security, and personal resources rather than otherwise.

At the end of the day, I can say that I taught someone to do something, possibly for the rest of their lives. Many businessmen thrive on the ignorance of people, charging them more, if possible, for something than it's worth. Who knows which of us sleeps better at night?

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

This guy did have a particular distain for English teachers. I wasn't clear why and didn't ask. But I'm curious how teachers view themselves in Thailand. Is it the low pay that makes them feel embarrassed to say they are a teacher? When I taught English in Thailand, I had not problem telling anyone who wanted to know. I enjoyed it. It paid the bills and never really felt like it was "lowly" or anything like that.

While now I do have a different sense of how some English teachers are viewed, I was struck at these strident views. Maybe it was just this guy who has the problem with English teachers or has had some bad experiences with them. As a former teacher, the comments were certainly annoying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On this website there are a number of people who like to troll teachers- some of them over financial issues, some of them over social status, and some of them over qualifications. It's best to ignore as many of them as possible. The best, most decent people here are appreciative of the work we do and sacrifice that teachers make.

"Steven"

[Felix Lynn]

The comments felt a little snobbish. I really don't care what the guy thought. It just got me thinking. I really liked teaching in Thailand and would do it again if the circumstances warrant. I keep in touch with other teachers and teaching websites. I was just struck by the words and wanted some perspective.

[Sydney_Tom]

Felix, I agree partially with what you are saying, but with a generalization, it can never be 100% true. I think the problem starts with the small percentage of those without any ability or qualifications, who undo the excellent and hard work done by the larger group. Sadly it’s all to do with perception and little to do with fact. Thus the phrase “English Teachers are the Farang equivalent to a Bar-Girl”

I will also say I am not a teacher, and I have not been employed as one, I know plenty, and have had many coming through my doors looking for jobs.

I will direct my comments at that small percentage, rather than the larger community. They of course are the ones who for one reason or another have landed themselves a Teaching job, as there is nothing else they can do. They got a teaching job simply because of unscrupulous language and training schools that will employ just about anyone who can speak or slur English and has the correct passport. Obviously some level of skill is needed, at the interview and in the classroom, but if the language school is desperate, then nearly anyone will do.

These people are generally dysfunctional and have seen LOS as one of the last havens. Maybe coming here for a long holiday and not wanting to go home, any number of reasons without stating to “too obvious”

These are the people who people consider to be the farang equivalent to a Bar Girl. Why is that, well, like a bar girl, these people cruise from day to day, hoping for some sort of luck. They have no real plan in their life, and have few if any assets. Living in the rented room, with minimal facilities, that is their life. Their life is plagued with bad luck, generally of their own doing, and they are also under-recognized in the world.

These people are clearly different from a proper teacher. You talk to them for 5 minutes, and you can see they care little for their students, and even less about a career. You ask them where they see themselves in a year or two, and the response is never teaching, you will hear all manner of plans, but none of them are to with their current work. They will talk about the days when they were an important person with an important job, and when the right opportunity comes again, they will be doing that. Their social life generally revolves around bars, or at a minimum drinking cheap booze and devising a way not to be detected at work the next day smelling of alcohol.

So sure it’s a perception, but sadly in this country the “Farang Bar Girls” are making a bad name for the rest of the industry.

[chownah]

This is my understanding of the teacher's place in traditional Thai society:

The top of the Thai social structure are monks because they represent the Buddha.

Next comes H.M. the King and the Royal Family.

Next comes teachers.

The rest I'm not sure of but next is probably elderly people...etc.

Somewhere I read that originally teaching was done by monks but later (probably around the time of Rama V, just guessing here) teaching by laypeople began. The laypeople teachers sort of inherited the high social status from the monks but obviously they would not be considered above H.M. the King or the Royal Family.

I guess what this shows is that if any particular teacher is shown disrespect it is an indication that from the Thai perspective this person has really really behaved badly for them to have gone from the exalted status of the teacher to such a low level....and from the stories I hear on TV I guess I can understand why this happens sometimes.

[bendix]

The original question is too general to have much meaning, imho.

I know several english teachers here. Some are the most respectable, driven, motivated caring people I know. They have married, settled, paying taxes and have what I loosely call 'a stake in society.'

I also know a couple of teachers who - not to put too fine a point on it - are lowlife scum, sextourists who don't want to go home. They see teaching as a way for them to stay and - frankly - they deserve a bad reputation.

But then again, I also know several senior management expat non-teachers like that also.

Being a teacher doesn't make you trash. Being trash makes you trash.

[kenkannif]

^ Lovely post mate!

[Sydney_Tom]

^ Lovely post mate!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, I put alot of thought into it whilst having morning tea.

[Khutan]

<snip> I know plenty, and have had many coming through my doors looking for jobs.<snip>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Was that work to wash your car, or as a security guard ?

[kenkannif]

^ Lovely post mate!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, I put alot of thought into it whilst having morning tea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was in response to Bendix's post! Your post was a bit silly IMO.

[Ijustwannateach]

Yup.

[Neeranam]

Thus the phrase “English Teachers are the Farang equivalent to a Bar-Girl”

A funny thing to look at is the high percentage of "non English teachers" with big earnings that end up marrying the Thai equivalent to "English teacher". I guess they are the ones that these very clever girls target. Everytime I meet one of these big earners, with their new Isaan wife, I can't help but smile.

There's a guy I know who earns huge money, who married a prostitute from Khon Kaen. Do you think he is higher or lower in the food chain than the guy at the local primary school earning peanuts, who is married to a woman from a respectable family?

I know for sure that one gets heaps of respect from Thais and expats, and the other doesn't, apart from his extended family, who are ripping him off stupid.

Edited September 5, 2005 by Neeranam

[snoophound]

Met one perched on a bar on SUK a year or so back.

Youg guy about thirty,sitting on the same beer all night,all the girls all over him,and he was lapping it up.

The owner who i knew well laughed and said all the girls like him as they get free engreesh in return for....

Not sure whether he would be the type a nice thai family would want teaching their kids.

Still ,its a vocation and some take it seriously,utmost respect for those who do.

<snip> I know plenty, and have had many coming through my doors looking for jobs.<snip>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Was that work to wash your car, or as a security guard ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Felix Lynn]

Alot of great replies. Anyone want to put their comments on the radio bangkok listener comment line? It's easy: 02-207-2677. We can put them on tomorrow's Thailand Today show.

I liked that comment about being trash makes you trash and not being a teacher. Also what neeranam said about the comparison of big earners who marry prostitues verus the english teacher who marries a repectable girl.

[Tyree D.]

Alot of great replies. Anyone want to put their comments on the radio bangkok listener comment line? It's easy: 02-207-2677. We can put them on tomorrow's Thailand Today show.

I liked that comment about being trash makes you trash and not being a teacher. Also what neeranam said about the comparison of big earners who marry prostitues verus the english teacher who marries a repectable girl.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought you were a troll. as for the topic, I would rather have the Thai person's opinion instead of this farang who thinks he's in the know or even if he is. I get wai'ed everywhere. And only around a farang will you hear something like "the pay sucks".

[PeaceBlondie]

I got more respect, admitting that I taught English in northern Thailand, than I did in Texas when I admitted I was an IRS tax auditor (then, what I got was more like fear).

Bar people, who are former students themselves, know that some ajarns frequent girlie bars and boy bars. The ajarn who goes to work and brags about who he shagged last night is lame. In the staffroom, I talk about my family back in the States.

[Sydney_Tom]

......It was in response to Bendix's post! Your post was a bit silly IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In what way was it silly, please explain. After all you and "Ijustwannateach" stated and agreed, but you have not given any basis for your argument.

Rather :

It was in response to Bendix's post! Your post was a bit silly IMO.

and

Yup.

You both claim you are teachers, but with attitudes like that, one can't help wonder where your methods are derived from.

When I learnt, I was shown to give a balanced argument, I am very happy, by your own behaviour that my children aren't your scholars !!!

[kenkannif]

......It was in response to Bendix's post! Your post was a bit silly IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In what way was it silly, please explain. After all you and "Ijustwannateach" stated and agreed, but you have not given any basis for your argument.

Rather :

It was in response to Bendix's post! Your post was a bit silly IMO.

and

Yup.

Well the post itself IMO explains it, but basically comparing teachers to bar girls was quite pathetic and silly IMO. But hey it's only my opinion don't let it get you down.

You both claim you are teachers, but with attitudes like that, one can't help wonder where your methods are derived from.

At the same time you're asking me to explain, but you yourself are making a throw away argument above 'with attitudes like that', doesn't really explain how that makes us bad teachers? Is it because we're not willing to suffer fools gladly???

When I learnt, I was shown to give a balanced argument, I am very happy, by your own behaviour that my children aren't your scholars !!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mate I commented on a post above mine, you thought it was directed at you (although your post was above the post I complimented).....so really at the end of the day who has got the wrong end of the stick?....If you hadn't of said thanks I'd not have even bothered wasting my time commenting on your post.

Think about it please and calm down and play nice!

Edited September 6, 2005 by kenkannif

[mbkudu]

^^ ^^ ^^

[Ijustwannateach]

^^Yup again!

If one yup makes me a bad teacher, how bad do two yups make me? Have I become a bargirl yet? And if so, can I get some handsome young clueless tourists to shag me and spend all their money on me?

[Tyree D.]

People make teaching in Thailand sound like a horrible thing. I've already stated in other threads how foreign teachers make more than Thai teachers and more than twice the median family income of some provinces. But since it is only 500 Euros and $600, you greedy, fat westerners make it sound like it is an extremely underpaid profession.

My girlfriend said she was turned onto me because I was a teacher sticking around. Every other foreigner was a short-term tourist looking for one night stands. That is proof that sex tourists aren't that respected.

So Thais respect me and farangs passing through may assume...whatever. I prefer the Thai voice. They pay me.

[Sydney_Tom]

Well guys, you are wrong. I spent today doing research, 2 job offers in about 3 hours from totally different language schools. I told them I had No qualifications and virtually no experience, basically not a problem. I am writing up the full story now and I will post it in great details. So I support the proposition

Rented by the hour - Yes

No Qualifications needed - Yes

Virtualy No Experience needed - Yes

Live on your wits - Yes

What am I talking about a bar-girl or an unqualified English teacher.

[Ijustwannateach]

Guess that tells us what kind of circles you move in, then, Tom... most of us prefer to be hired by places that are a bit more demanding (and pay a bit more, too). No accounting for taste, though! Good luck out there on KSR! Looking forward to your "story!"

"Steven"

[Sydney_Tom]

Guess that tells us what kind of circles you move in, then, Tom...  most of us prefer to be hired by places that are a bit more demanding (and pay a bit more, too).  No accounting for taste, though!  Good luck out there on KSR!  Looking forward to your "story!"

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well it doesn't matter what circles I move in, and that certainly opens a retort, that I will not nother to answer.

The whole purpose of my exercise was to test if I could get a job around 40K a month with no qualifications and little if any experience. This then supports the fact that the low life in your profession are the Farang answer for Bar Girls.

KSR ? well, read the story yourself, it just shocked me it revolves around two English Language Schools One I will call "Dodgy-world" and the Other "Shameless dot com". The funny thing about the dot com place wan their website hadn't worked, because the owner's husband was the webmaster and he disappeared with some money and the server crashed.

A summary of "Dodgy World":

No qualifications, No real Experience, I was sold an up-country job basically because there were lots of single girls in “Nowhere-Buri” looking for a “Farang Boyfriend” and there was plenty of nightlife. The whole effort took me about 1 hour. So not exactly 40k baht a month, but supposedly with overtime, can make up the extra to get to the 40k. So near enough. So not only unqualified, but also lots of single girls available and looking.

A Summary of "Shameless dot com":

No Qualifications is ok, and they will organize a fake degree, start as soon as I get the fake degree and taking the “Farang Manager” out on the booze I will then get the "Teachers License". The fringe benefits here are of course you can go with the students. But the pay is lower, only about 33 - 35 K a month. Just shameless

As there is also a bit about bars then the full story is <We don't link to other sites on here mate...KK>

<You understand wrong I'm afraid...KK>

Enjoy the story

Tom

Edited September 7, 2005 by kenkannif