Vientiane Double Visa: Three Strikes And You'Re Out!

[Richard4849]

There are almost 200 countries in the world...why not try another one every now or then?

[legalnomads]

Hey everyone. The "lawyer" here. I actually didn't post this on my blog - it was just a status update/response on my Facebook fan page, so apologies that the info wasn't quite complete - didn't realize someone would post it to Thaivisa.com. I had 3 prior visas over the course of the last 3 years, 1 single and 2 double entry.

The man working at the VIentiane embassy said that they were not concerned about days (adding up my days over the course of several years would still get me under the amount allowed by the visas as a family emergency meant that I did not even use one of them). Instead, they said I had too many prior visas (there were 3) and that as a Canadian I ought to be satisfied with the 30 day transit stamps. And that I was obviously trying to work in Thailand. I explained I liked Thai food (it's true!) and wanted to learn more about it, and that I was not employed in Thailand....but he did not want to hear it.

To answer the questions above: I have not stayed in the country longer than a few months at a time (have been travelling the region, but crossed in and out of Thailand and wanting to stay for longer periods when I did), and one of the visas was not even used as I had to fly home to Canada unexpectedly. The consular employee did not care about that either. I'm in Chiang Mai for the next few months but hadn't planned on staying past May. My plan was to eat as much as possible while here So I'm not a long-term farang, but I do love Thailand.

[jazzbo]

BTW the official Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) figures for 'Average Length of Stay' for International arrivals in Thailand for JAN 2007 (the latest year available):

Europe: 16.32 days

The Americas: 11.17 days

Average for All Countries: 10.71 days

[turgid]

I live in Laos.

Sorry to go a little off topic but i'm interested in living in Laos .

Can you point me at any resources on how to do so legally ??

Thanks

[happyrobert]

The wealthy couple should get a Thailand Elite card. It's peanuts.

More info? Out of curiosity...

They have never themselves had a problem with tourist visas. Probably because of the manner in which they present themselves.

[pisico]

Tourists don't need 4 Tourist visas.

Good to see them cracking down on people illegally abusing the system.

Should really make it a limit of 2, not 3. Or even a limit of one in neighbouring countries.

That sounds like a Pad Thai Iron curtain. Tourists bring money into Thailand. The longer tourists stay the more money they spend.

What abuse are you referring too? Abuse means something that goes beyond the normal and that harms people or property.

Isn't enough that Thais have discriminatory practices: one price for Thais and another price for foreigners? If Thais were discriminated that way in any of the Western countries will you condone it or be in favor of it?

That attitude kept China isolated for centuries. The result was a culture that rejected any values, technology or knowledge that was not Chinese.

If Thailand continues exacerbating that nationalistic pride it will regress until it becomes our of step with the rest of the world.

If these crack downs have been planned the same way of the new airport and the rail link, it will produce likewise results.

Tourists account for about 7% of the total GDP.

I understand that in schools a stern nationalism is taught to the students from an early age. That has lead to the current state of affairs in which tourists are reluctantly tolerated as long as they pay higher prices.

Spain had a boom in tourism for many years (over 45 million each year consistently) and they began to developed such tendencies. Eventually, they had to beg tourists to return when these got tired of the underlying disdain and predatory practices. Currently Spain, which is an industrialized country, is on the verge of bankrupcy. They had the goose that laid gold eggs and their unbriddled nationalistic pride and lack of common sense and fairness killed it.

Is that what you wish for Thailand?

[turgid]

Just to be on topic. I've come in and out 12 times by Air in the last 12 months on 30 day stamps from various locations and had no issue.

My Indian colleagues who last year could easily get 1 year multi entry visas are only allowed to get 90 day visas this year and it seems they are only getting stamped in for 60 days.

My boss also had his 12 month visa revoked because we dont have enough local staff.

So there does appear to be general hardening of visa enforcement this year.

[kristel]

Hey everyone. The "lawyer" here. I actually didn't post this on my blog - it was just a status update/response on my Facebook fan page, so apologies that the info wasn't quite complete - didn't realize someone would post it to Thaivisa.com. I had 3 prior visas over the course of the last 3 years, 1 single and 2 double entry.

The man working at the VIentiane embassy said that they were not concerned about days (adding up my days over the course of several years would still get me under the amount allowed by the visas as a family emergency meant that I did not even use one of them). Instead, they said I had too many prior visas (there were 3) and that as a Canadian I ought to be satisfied with the 30 day transit stamps. And that I was obviously trying to work in Thailand. I explained I liked Thai food (it's true!) and wanted to learn more about it, and that I was not employed in Thailand....but he did not want to hear it.

To answer the questions above: I have not stayed in the country longer than a few months at a time (have been travelling the region, but crossed in and out of Thailand and wanting to stay for longer periods when I did), and one of the visas was not even used as I had to fly home to Canada unexpectedly. The consular employee did not care about that either. I'm in Chiang Mai for the next few months but hadn't planned on staying past May. My plan was to eat as much as possible while here So I'm not a long-term farang, but I do love Thailand.

So would you be able to clear this up then?

The op said you were refused a double entry.Is that the case or was any tourist visa refused?

Do they just count tourist visas or non imm visas also?

Thinking of going to Savannakht later this month but if its too much hassle I'll just move forward my trip to Vietnam.

[legalnomads]

So would you be able to clear this up then?

The op said you were refused a double entry.Is that the case or was any tourist visa refused?

Do they just count tourist visas or non imm visas also?

Thinking of going to Savannakht later this month but if its too much hassle I'll just move forward my trip to Vietnam.

Hi there. I was refused a double entry, but given a single (60 day) entry, which is fine as it means I'll merely go elsewhere at the end of those 2 months. I was hoping to stay put for a bit longer (till end of May) but I guess not! They were only counting the tourist visas as that's all I have, and not the transit (30 day stamp, free upon entry at the airport) visas. I don't know about non-immigrant working visas as I never applied for one / had any.

[turgid]

Thailand Elite Card = Thaksin idea to take money from rich Chinese and others to get visas. Presumably the rich found it cheaper to use other methods

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/322496-thailand-elite-card-issuer-on-auction/page__st__25

http://www.thestanda...d/FJ23Wd02.html

Dont know if this site is genuine but its still there.

http://www.thailandelite.com/

Edited February 7, 2011 by metisdead
Link to Bangkok Post removed.

[EarthAlien]

,if they want to kick out their tourists. Nothing we can do about it .

They don't. They want people to have the correct visas, as to be regulated properly. Too many paedos and criminals working illegally just to stay here and not using the correct visa procedures and working/teaching on Tourist Visas.

The reigns should be tightened. You either qualify to work/live here, or you don't. Questionable people living/working here on tourist visas from neighboring countries should be reined in, and if they don't meet the requirements to live/work here legally, they should be shipped out, with a short stay in a prison cell to teach them some respect for another country's visa laws.

"respect for another country's visa laws." Respect granted where respect is warranted but in this case the laws have been drafted by myopic xenophobic idiots that impose nonsensical and impractical conditions for those who don't fit into or who object to their ridiculous conditions.

In any civilized western country such laws could be challenged as being racist and unjust but hey,.. this is Thailand so why bother trying to conduct an intelligent conversation about it? The greater majority of their rationale behind such ever changing laws and imposition thereof just defies logic,but this is not a land of logic so again why bother?

The 15 day walk,.. the 2 stamps limit, the 800,000bht in the bank before retirement/marriage visa is granted,.... all totally stupid, impractical, imbalanced and unjust. Then to have a farang singing praises to their righteousness is just too much to bear!

Sure makes the overstay model increasingly attractive. No border runs, no visa hoopla, and a simple 20,000 baht on your way out (provided you don't get arrested and black marked) and that can save you a bundle even if you overstay by a year.

Introduce sensible, fair and equitable laws and then you'll probably get fairer play.

How can you respect the laws of a country when they are both totally stupid and unjust and also when they mean nothing to the Thais themselves as corruption from the top all the way down to local government and the tea money collecting BIB prevails with no abatement in sight?

[metisdead]

One post have been edited to remove a link to Bangkok Post:

31) All members are not allowed to quote news articles or material from bangkokpost.com or phuketwan inside topics on thaivisa.com. Posts containing quotes will be deleted from the forum. Links referring back to the sites are also not allowed and will be deleted.

[bangkokcitylimits]

Time to buy a Cambodian passport and enjoy free travel within Asia

Edited February 7, 2011 by bangkokcitylimits

[Madivad]

And neither was he. VOA is not the same as a visa exempt stamp.

well, we're all talking about multiple tourist visas. And for most intensive purposes, VOA and the visa exempt stamp are pretty identical and used interchangeably.

It's unfortunate that so many people on Thaivisa that don't understand the visa/entry system of Thailand have to post about it.

and thank you for contributing something worthwhile or at least commenting something eitherway instead of arguing semantics. The issue in that discussion was that the post I quoted says people should not be allowed to get multiple tourist visas. And that attitude is a load of hogwash. You've totally missed the point we were both arguing about But thanks for your post...

[Madivad]

Tourists don't need 4 Tourist visas.

Good to see them cracking down on people illegally abusing the system.

Should really make it a limit of 2, not 3. Or even a limit of one in neighbouring countries.

Are you saying that if you have a penchant for a particular country that 3 times is the number of times you should be allowed to visit it, in your lifetime?

Not at all, however if one wishes to live in a country, one should obtain the appropriate visa, which is not Tourist

I agree with this. But that's not what 'appropriate' said.

[appropriate]

"respect for another country's visa laws." Respect granted where respect is warranted but in this case the laws have been drafted by myopic xenophobic idiots that impose nonsensical and impractical conditions for those who don't fit into or who object to their ridiculous conditions.

In any civilized western country such laws could be challenged as being racist and unjust but hey,.. this is Thailand so why bother trying to conduct an intelligent conversation about it? The greater majority of their rationale behind such ever changing laws and imposition thereof just defies logic,but this is not a land of logic so again why bother?

The 15 day walk,.. the 2 stamps limit, the 800,000bht in the bank before retirement/marriage visa is granted,.... all totally stupid, impractical, imbalanced and unjust. Then to have a farang singing praises to their righteousness is just too much to bear!

Sure makes the overstay model increasingly attractive. No border runs, no visa hoopla, and a simple 20,000 baht on your way out (provided you don't get arrested and black marked) and that can save you a bundle even if you overstay by a year.

Introduce sensible, fair and equitable laws and then you'll probably get fairer play.

How can you respect the laws of a country when they are both totally stupid and unjust and also when they mean nothing to the Thais themselves as corruption from the top all the way down to local government and the tea money collecting BIB prevails with no abatement in sight?

Sounds like you're quite angry and not cut out for living away from home.

In any civilized western country such laws could be challenged as being racist and unjust but hey

What Thai immigration laws are racist and unjust, and could be challenged as so in a 'civilized western country'?

If you're a genuine tourist, get a tourist visa. Tourists don't live here for years on end.

If visiting friends, get a Non-O

If studying - a Non-Ed

Working - Non-B

etc etc.

A great system for those who belong here. If you don't meet the criteria that they set in their country, that's your fault, not theirs. 10s (100s?) of thousands of foreigners living here perfectly legally with their own house (yes, house), their own car, their own condo extremely easily. No visa worries at all. A great system. Well done Thailand.

[SouthernMan3]

Get a grip.

If you 'love' Thailand so much, learn how to work with the system.

Ever heard of friends.

Btw, I totally agree with " Tourists don't need 4 Tourist visas.

Good to see them cracking down on people illegally abusing the system."

If you can't figure out how to stay here, maybe you shouldn't be here !

[Richard4849]

To the person with the gall to bring up "racism"...how about the racism inherent in the visa rules if all Western nations? If you hold another Western country's passport -- come on in, no visa required. If you are a Thai or hold a passport from another developing or undeveloped nation, good luck.

To the person who said Thai immigration laws are racist, perhaps you'd be happier if Thai laws reciprocated those of your own country, and you had to be interrogated like a common thief and still have only a 25% chance of getting a visa for a sole, fifteen-day visit?

[a99az]

Tourists don't need 4 Tourist visas.

Good to see them cracking down on people illegally abusing the system.

Should really make it a limit of 2, not 3. Or even a limit of one in neighbouring countries.

Bet you would love a position where you could make law's . Was you a traffic warden in you previous life.

[passon]

Tourists don't need 4 Tourist visas.

Good to see them cracking down on people illegally abusing the system.

Should really make it a limit of 2, not 3. Or even a limit of one in neighbouring countries.

Why is it you think they are abusing the system? I think it's the other way around. I'm one of those people who does not have to work, but who enjoys living in Thailand and has a modest investment in possessions, friendships and community, so placing limits on my ability to get future visa stamps is both frustrating and burdensome. However, I realize there is a, " I got mine" attitude at play here which makes your comment all the more disconnected to the dilemma most people face who want nothing more than to play by the rules, if they could just figure out what those rules are on any given day.

[tropo]

Time to buy a Cambodian passport and enjoy free travel within Asia

How did you work that out?

A Cambodian can't stay in Thailand any easier than a Farang. They may get 30 days at a land border, but that's about as far as the advantages go. They would have more trouble getting back-to-back tourist visas.

[torin]

,if they want to kick out their tourists. Nothing we can do about it .

They don't. They want people to have the correct visas, as to be regulated properly. Too many paedos and criminals working illegally just to stay here and not using the correct visa procedures and working/teaching on Tourist Visas.

The reigns should be tightened. You either qualify to work/live here, or you don't. Questionable people living/working here on tourist visas from neighbouring countries should be reined in, and if they don't meet the requirements to live/work here legally, they should be shipped out, with a short stay in a prison cell to teach them some respect for another country's visa laws.

[Richard4849]

quote: I'm one of those people who does not have to work, but who enjoys living in Thailand and has a modest investment in possessions, friendships and community, so placing limits on my ability to get future visa stamps is both frustrating and burdensome.

How does your home country treat foreign nationals in the same position as you? Say, a middle class Bangladeshi, not wealthy but with enough to get by, who just wants to come and hang out?

[passon]

"respect for another country's visa laws." Respect granted where respect is warranted but in this case the laws have been drafted by myopic xenophobic idiots that impose nonsensical and impractical conditions for those who don't fit into or who object to their ridiculous conditions.

In any civilized western country such laws could be challenged as being racist and unjust but hey,.. this is Thailand so why bother trying to conduct an intelligent conversation about it? The greater majority of their rationale behind such ever changing laws and imposition thereof just defies logic,but this is not a land of logic so again why bother?

The 15 day walk,.. the 2 stamps limit, the 800,000bht in the bank before retirement/marriage visa is granted,.... all totally stupid, impractical, imbalanced and unjust. Then to have a farang singing praises to their righteousness is just too much to bear!

Sure makes the overstay model increasingly attractive. No border runs, no visa hoopla, and a simple 20,000 baht on your way out (provided you don't get arrested and black marked) and that can save you a bundle even if you overstay by a year.

Introduce sensible, fair and equitable laws and then you'll probably get fairer play.

How can you respect the laws of a country when they are both totally stupid and unjust and also when they mean nothing to the Thais themselves as corruption from the top all the way down to local government and the tea money collecting BIB prevails with no abatement in sight?

Sounds like you're quite angry and not cut out for living away from home.

In any civilized western country such laws could be challenged as being racist and unjust but hey

What Thai immigration laws are racist and unjust, and could be challenged as so in a 'civilized western country'?

If you're a genuine tourist, get a tourist visa. Tourists don't live here for years on end.

If visiting friends, get a Non-O

If studying - a Non-Ed

Working - Non-B

etc etc.

A great system for those who belong here. If you don't meet the criteria that they set in their country, that's your fault, not theirs. 10s (100s?) of thousands of foreigners living here perfectly legally with their own house (yes, house), their own car, their own condo extremely easily. No visa worries at all. A great system. Well done Thailand.

Wow, and it doesn't get too much more cavalier than that. "A great system for those who belong here." So if you don't have a house or a car or a condo, you don't belong here, right? What exactly is the criteria? I'm not visiting friends, I don't need to study or work, but I live here completely dependent upon my own resources, and I pay my fair share into the system with no need to buy a house, a car, or a condo. Does that make me an outcast in your book? It's amazing to see so many post here with the "Ive got mine attitude." Tourist live here years on end because they have no other option, so as convenient as your little world is, it is the system that requires them to access whatever means is available to them to stay in a place they chose to call home. For you to say otherwise is selfish, arrogant and self-righteous.

[SailingHome]

My problem with this is that I am not old enough for a tourist visa and am retired. What other do I have besides going to the border every 15 days!!!??!?!?! And, I don't mean flying out every month either. Retired is not rich. Any advice?

[Richard4849]

Passon, what would a Thai need to do to hang out in your civilized home country indefinitely?

[torin]

,if they want to kick out their tourists. Nothing we can do about it .

They don't. They want people to have the correct visas, as to be regulated properly. Too many paedos and criminals working illegally just to stay here and not using the correct visa procedures and working/teaching on Tourist Visas.

The reigns should be tightened. You either qualify to work/live here, or you don't. Questionable people living/working here on tourist visas from neighbouring countries should be reined in, and if they don't meet the requirements to live/work here legally, they should be shipped out, with a short stay in a prison cell to teach them some respect for another country's visa laws.

I have a biz, a hotel here in Cha-am. I spent 2 mil on a 3 yr lease and have 5 thai employees. I pay their social security benefits each month and of course the salaries and other perks. I pay the property and all other taxes each year which comes to about 60k baht each year in taxes alone. I have a legal company here in Thailand, I had all the paper work and got a business visa in Penang which u then have to go to the Thai labor department and get a work permit that kinda is attached to the biz visa which makes you legal to stay and work in the business. But when I applied to the labor department, they said to forget it, that they thought I was just trying to stay in Thailand and refused me the work permit whereupon the biz visa then expires in 3 months and u have nothing. I had the biz visa which u would think is good-to-go for the work permit as u cant have the biz visa unless u had all the proper paper work. Hence im now here on tourist visas every 3 months and was denied at Christmas because I had 3 tourist visas inside of a year and now doing the fly out, fly in for a months stay. I sure the hell cant be profitable when I have to spend 10-20k baht like that each month. My lease expires in June, Im outta here and the Thai that owns the biz that would not pay his taxes for several years, nor his employees for 5 months before he leased it to me to pay both and avoid bankruptcy, its his and good luck to his employees and the taxman, to all, good luck, Im leaving and not looking back, had a great stay but know when they are showing me the door and pulling the welcome mat back.

[Richard4849]

There is no reason why your work permit would not have been approved if you had presented a properly filled out application. Something is very wrong with this picture.

[jazzbo]

6 pages now and at one point about 400 viewers and not one UK/EU person has mentioned trying to take-up RT Consulate Hull on their Non-IMM 'O' Visa for volunteering ... Sponsorship letter from 'recognised' Charity required but maybe just for volunteering your time for a few days per month.

[troy04]

A border land crossing gets you 15 days, not 30 (for most of the passport holders here, anyway).

Right, there is a fatal error in the message, entering Thailand by land borders you get only 15 days not 30, 30 days is by arrival by Airplane only!

The guy at the counter of the Thai Embassy Vientiane didn't want to submit my provided letter and papers and flight ticket copies giving reason to apply for a double entry tourist visa and promised I would get double since i had previously non-immigrant-B stickers and not too many tourist visas in my passport yet. But in the end, guess, I get single!

A friend who had previously a non-immigrant-O visa (thai wife) in his passport get refused a tourist visa at all, they blamed him he want to save money by applying for a tourist visa instead..! He then paid 3000 Baht to an agent outside the embassy and received a single tourist visa same day. I know that you can get this service for 2000 as well. Many agents there or in the restaurant opposite.

Another friend who received double entry tourist visas over many years in Vientiane continiously also now can't get them anymore. A japanese I met received a tourist visa there 3 times but not a 4th time, no visa at all given!

Other foreigners, real travellers, who applied for the first time, received double entry tourist visas! I was there 3 weeks ago end January 2011.

Get a new passport! Or Education Non-Immigrant-ED visa 22'000+ Baht plus 1900 extension fee every 3 months. Or marry...