Vientiane Double Visa: Three Strikes And You'Re Out!

[jazzbo]

Post # 239 -- If i have a brand new passport, i'm 100% sure to get a DoubleE tourist Visa in vientiane ? (even if i had 3 visa in my last passport)

100% sure -- Who knows? -- Note that on MoFA Visa Application Form it asks : "Date of Previous Visit to Thailand"

[appropriate]

i'm 100% sure to get a DoubleE tourist Visa in vientiane ?

Yes.

Complete nonsense. Please don't give incorrect information.

No one is ever 100% sure to get any visa (for any country in world?).

You apply, it is at the discretion of the officer whether they grant you it or not.

Edited February 9, 2011 by appropriate

[crazydrummerpauly]

i'm 100% sure to get a DoubleE tourist Visa in vientiane ?

Yes.

Complete nonsense. Please don't give incorrect information.

No one is ever 100% sure to get any visa (for any country in world?).

You apply, it is at the discretion of the officer whether they grant you it or not.

Absolutely right, and in my Thai Law for Foreigners bible, there is the alarming information that, to paraphrase, immigration officers have the final word on everyone's entry into the Kingdom, even if an individual has a valid visa. Quote: "In some cases, the immigration officer may not permit a foreigner holding a valid visa entry into Thailand should the immigration officer find reason to believe [ NB: reason to believe ] that he or she falls into the category of aliens prohibited from entering Thailand under the Immigration Act B.E.2522 (1979)." Now, there are 11 categories of 'undesirables' prohibited from entering Thailand - even if they have a valid visa - too lengthy to type here, but summarizing - if the Immigration Officer THINKS you might have 1, insufficient cash ,2, might work in LOS, 3, might be "mentally unstable" ( that's me f---ed) , 4, haven't been jabbed against smallpox and other diseases requiring innoculation, 5, and this one has to be quoted in full: "Having behaviour which could cause possible danger to the public; or having the likeliehood of being a nuisance or constituting any violence to the peace, safety and securityof the public or to the security of the nation...."

Hahahah.....now, everyone put up your hand if you can honestly say there has never been a time when there was a "likeliehood of being a nuisance" on your part ! But seriously, before I read this stuff, I had absolutely no idea of the POWER those officers have - hence I agree with all the advice about the need to be ultra-respectable, solvent and sane-looking when attempting any visa-run anywhere. To be honest, what surprises me is the number of geezers I personally know who are in LOS and are clearly, visibly, loopy, potless and with anarchist tendencies !!! By the strict rules of the categories referred to above, bus-loads of 'em could have been refused entry long ago based only on the hunches of a testy immigration officer. Many of them [ some my friends ] have been on borrowed time for a long time, going by the letter of Thai law.

[crazydrummerpauly]

This is largely a product of the strong baht. Many guys who were happily retired here, many with Thai wives and children, lost their retirement visas because their pensions no longer reached the minimum amount required. The Thai Immigration dept were asked to lower the financial requirement to reflect this change (by the British ambassador amongst others) but refused. So these guys were forced to resort to tourist visas and other ingenious devices to stay here. That was a couple of years ago. They are now finding that they have used up all their options and the Thais won't grant them any further tourist visas as they plainly aren't tourists. Not surprisingly these guys get rather testy when people (like me in past, I must admit) advised them to get the correct visa. They can't. They don't have the money. They do, in many cases, have financial responsibility toward a Thai family and their income is just sufficient for that .

Immigration policy in this country is elitist, as is every other aspect of government policy. They only respect the rich. If my wife came to UK with me after 2 years she'd get permanent residency and after 5 more years a British passport, The only money required would be a couple of £500 payments to get the appropriate stamps and a very basic requirement to speak English.

The Thais at some point should recognise that there is an ethnic minority in their midst with fewer rights in Thailand than almost any other immigrant group in the world, despite having lived here in many cases for years an years. White, middle aged, male Farangs might not conisder themselves an ethnic minority, but we surely are!!

Very thought-provoking post - and pretty depressing in the true picture it paints of the over-worshipping of wealth in connection with the showing or not showing respect to 'us'. What depresses me is the sub-text of suffering and anxiety it implies - i think everyone should remember how many deeply serious farang family-men, fathers and husbands to Thais there are in LOS, who have little or no connection with 'travelling' (endlessly); bar or girly-scenes; illegal working; drug-taking or dealing etc etc... Just guys who genuinely love and are loved by their Thai partners in return, and who can go through many sleepless nights attempting to hack a way through the regulations in order to keep the love alive. Soppy old fool ? - yeah, that;s me, and i apologise to no-one for it. I'm with the lovers not the fighters.

[Richard4849]

i'm 100% sure to get a DoubleE tourist Visa in vientiane ?

Yes.

Complete nonsense. Please don't give incorrect information.

No one is ever 100% sure to get any visa (for any country in world?).

You apply, it is at the discretion of the officer whether they grant you it or not.

Absolutely right, and in my Thai Law for Foreigners bible, there is the alarming information that, to paraphrase, immigration officers have the final word on everyone's entry into the Kingdom, even if an individual has a valid visa. Quote: "In some cases, the immigration officer may not permit a foreigner holding a valid visa entry into Thailand should the immigration officer find reason to believe [ NB: reason to believe ] that he or she falls into the category of aliens prohibited from entering Thailand under the Immigration Act B.E.2522 (1979)." Now, there are 11 categories of 'undesirables' prohibited from entering Thailand - even if they have a valid visa - too lengthy to type here, but summarizing - if the Immigration Officer THINKS you might have 1, insufficient cash ,2, might work in LOS, 3, might be "mentally unstable" ( that's me f---ed) , 4, haven't been jabbed against smallpox and other diseases requiring innoculation, 5, and this one has to be quoted in full: "Having behaviour which could cause possible danger to the public; or having the likeliehood of being a nuisance or constituting any violence to the peace, safety and securityof the public or to the security of the nation...."

Hahahah.....now, everyone put up your hand if you can honestly say there has never been a time when there was a "likeliehood of being a nuisance" on your part ! But seriously, before I read this stuff, I had absolutely no idea of the POWER those officers have - hence I agree with all the advice about the need to be ultra-respectable, solvent and sane-looking when attempting any visa-run anywhere. To be honest, what surprises me is the number of geezers I personally know who are in LOS and are clearly, visibly, loopy, potless and with anarchist tendencies !!! By the strict rules of the categories referred to above, bus-loads of 'em could have been refused entry long ago based only on the hunches of a testy immigration officer. Many of them [ some my friends ] have been on borrowed time for a long time, going by the letter of Thai law.

Hate to burst your bubble, but it is exactly the same with any visa for any country in the world. Admission is ALWAYS at the discretion of the immigration officer at the point of entry. I have seen people put right on a plane back home at American airports, in spite of having a valid visa.

[tropo]

Complete nonsense.

Lay off the medicine and concentrate. We're talking about tourist visas here.

If a person is refused a tourist visa in Vientiane due to having too many stickers in their passport, then a new passport will guarantee them a new visa.

I hate to burst your bubble mate, but in Vientiane they don't interview applicants. It goes like this.

1. Next person in a line of 100's of applicants brings his passport and completed application form to the window.

2. The officer quickly checks the application form to see what visa is being applied for.

3. The officer does a quick count ot see how many tourist visas are already in the passport.

4. The officer makes a quick decision to either accept of reject the application.

I've done this 12 times in Vientiane. It takes about a minute tops.

(next time you quote people, stick to the rules and include the full text so comments are not taken out of context)

[tropo]

i'm 100% sure to get a DoubleE tourist Visa in vientiane ?

Yes.

Complete nonsense. Please don't give incorrect information.

No one is ever 100% sure to get any visa (for any country in world?).

You apply, it is at the discretion of the officer whether they grant you it or not.

Absolutely right, and in my Thai Law for Foreigners bible, there is the alarming information that, to paraphrase, immigration officers have the final word on everyone's entry into the Kingdom, even if an individual has a valid visa. Quote: "In some cases, the immigration officer may not permit a foreigner holding a valid visa entry into Thailand should the immigration officer find reason to believe [ NB: reason to believe ] that he or she falls into the category of aliens prohibited from entering Thailand under the Immigration Act B.E.2522 (1979)." Now, there are 11 categories of 'undesirables' prohibited from entering Thailand - even if they have a valid visa - too lengthy to type here, but summarizing - if the Immigration Officer THINKS you might have 1, insufficient cash ,2, might work in LOS, 3, might be "mentally unstable" ( that's me f---ed) , 4, haven't been jabbed against smallpox and other diseases requiring innoculation, 5, and this one has to be quoted in full: "Having behaviour which could cause possible danger to the public; or having the likeliehood of being a nuisance or constituting any violence to the peace, safety and securityof the public or to the security of the nation...."

Hahahah.....now, everyone put up your hand if you can honestly say there has never been a time when there was a "likeliehood of being a nuisance" on your part ! But seriously, before I read this stuff, I had absolutely no idea of the POWER those officers have - hence I agree with all the advice about the need to be ultra-respectable, solvent and sane-looking when attempting any visa-run anywhere. To be honest, what surprises me is the number of geezers I personally know who are in LOS and are clearly, visibly, loopy, potless and with anarchist tendencies !!! By the strict rules of the categories referred to above, bus-loads of 'em could have been refused entry long ago based only on the hunches of a testy immigration officer. Many of them [ some my friends ] have been on borrowed time for a long time, going by the letter of Thai law.

The only way you'll be refused in Vientiane, besides having too many stickers in your passport, is if you start getting abusive and swearing at an officer, or threatening them with a knife or gun.

(If you want to people to bother reading your posts, try formatting them properly as your post resembles some pretty average gobbledygook)

[appropriate]

Complete nonsense.

Lay off the medicine and concentrate. We're talking about tourist visas here.

If a person is refused a tourist visa in Vientiane due to having too many stickers in their passport, then a new passport will guarantee them a new visa.

I hate to burst your bubble mate, but in Vientiane they don't interview applicants. It goes like this.

1. Next person in a line of 100's of applicants brings his passport and completed application form to the window.

2. The officer quickly checks the application form to see what visa is being applied for.

3. The officer does a quick count ot see how many tourist visas are already in the passport.

4. The officer makes a quick decision to either accept of reject the application.

I've done this 12 times in Vientiane. It takes about a minute tops.

(next time you quote people, stick to the rules and include the full text so comments are not taken out of context)

You are dangerously incorrect.

No one is ever, ever guaranteed a visa 100%.

Please don't give out dangerously incorrect information on here. People deserve better than your incorrect nonsense. Especially with regards to such matters.

Thanks.

[appropriate]

Please read the rules with regards to giving false information tropo.

15) Not to use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false

Thanks.

[Mario2008]

This topic always seems to bring on some heated debate. But I strongly suggest to play the ball, not the man.

[tropo]

You are dangerously incorrect.

No one is ever, ever guaranteed a visa 100%.

Please don't give out dangerously incorrect information on here. People deserve better than your incorrect nonsense. Especially with regards to such matters.

Thanks.

As far as Vientiane is concerned, I am 100% correct. If you'd been there, you'd know.

BTW, there is nothing "dangerous" about being refused a tourist visa. It's inconvenient and frustrating, but never dangerous.

[aNoma]

First, I must comment on the "Tourists don't need 4 Tourist visas. Good to see them cracking down on people illegally abusing the system. Should really make it a limit of 2, not 3. Or even a limit of one in neighbouring countries." comment by approppriate.

Given the seriousness of the subject and context, this is one of the most ignorant, inappropriate, and I imagine self-serving comments I have seen on this board. Some exception to it would be if the poster is actually a Thai born and living here. In such case I'd say he/she would have the right to some nationalism, if that's what they choose. Not that it would be good - after all these people who come to Thailand leave their money here.

If anything, Thailand should be grateful to all these short or long term visitors. Over the years, they helped building the Thai economy. With the amount of money a tourist brings to and spends in Thailand, compared to the amount of money an average Thai person gives to the country while working, I would say that this average foreigner contributes ten fold in comparison. And this includes some services and food on the table for many of those 'average' Thais. Of course, this is Thailand and the land of Thais. The rest are farang. If Thailand doesn't want legal immigration, and if they don't want a system that obviously works and doesn't create problems elsewhere, like in Malaysia for example where on my passport I can get 90 days anytime, then that's their choice. But it's shortsighted and being ungrateful on Thais side. It's like - the long term tourists left their money already so now leave, and the short term tourists - leave as much as you have now and leave. It seems like Thailand got to the level of economical greatness that they got cocky to the point where they say 'whatever, we don't need you so much now, go'. I can't see it as different from biting the hand that fed and still feeds them, by the face of a thousand smiles. (and it makes me wonder why it smiles..)

I will give you an example of why I think what appropriate said and what Thai immigration does now is nothing short from idiotic.

I got my 60 days free visa last year. I traveled around Thailand for those 60 days, then left. That was six months ago. I visited other countries in SEAsia after this. I am a backpacker

Then, I applied for a new 60 days visa. Got it with no problem. I still want to see places I wasn't able to see before, because they were flooded. I haven't been to the islands and many other places. And Thailand is geographically situated in the middle of all these countries. If you travel by bus or train, you can't help but face the necessity of entering Thailand again. Plus, most cheap flights go from or arrive in Bangkok.

So, on my second 60 day visa I entered Thailand. After two weeks, learning that my friend will be in Malaysia, I left for Malaysia. I lost the remaining 1.5 months of my Thai visa. Now, I want to go back to Thailand and continue my travels. And guess what - the Thai consulate rejected my application because they said I already have two prior 60 days visas in my passport! It took lots of explanations, back and forth, pointing out that the first visa was a long time ago last year, and this year I was in Thailand only fro two weeks, left to see a friend and I want to come back, and eventually they told me to leave the application, and that if the boss who approves visas doesn't approve my application, I will have to show them a bank statement. I have been in Thailand for 2.5 months (interrupted) only during a year, and I am getting so much trouble now wanting to visit again. (I will write a separate report about my KB visa experience)

I think this new system is absolutely idiotic and borderline with prejudice. It hurts good people, those who have been good living here for longer periods of time and not causing trouble, and those who are just innocent travelers. I can't see any other explanation that it's all about money. But as I said it before - it's shortsighted and will hurt Thailand more that if they did just the opposite, actually easing off visa requirements.

Reading threads on this forum, I am disgusted, but not surprised, to see how many 'long term' farang residents here are so insensitive, opinionated, and nonsupport towards their fellow farangs. You might be working here or living off your retirement fund, feeling invincible and above all the rest. But it seems like in this system here you are actually on the same boat as anyone else - just a farang. Riding your high horse is low class and narrow minded. I have no idea where this feeling of entitlement while putting down others comes from. Or maybe I already mentioned it? People call themselves 'appropriate' - how can you have a discussion with an assuming so openly person like that? I bet if I'd search enough I'd also find 'Bruce almighty'.

I am disappointed with this new Thailand's policy. I remember, a long time ago, when a local in another Buddhist country joked about the Buddha image, his smile and how he keeps his hands. He said one is for 'stop', and the lowered extended one for 'give me your money'. No wonder he smiles, especially when complying becomes part of the law and culture you must obey. Luckily, the world doesn't revolve around Thailand, and there are many places I don't have to get intimidated when simply wanting to pay a visit. I wonder what Thailand would do if all the farangs just left.

Signed:

Not on a visa run but victimized.

Edited February 10, 2011 by aNoma

[appropriate]

As far as Vientiane is concerned, I am 100% correct. If you'd been there, you'd know.

You are certainly 100% incorrect. You are '100% guaranteeing' that someone will be granted a certain visa.

This is impossible and irresponsible for you to guarantee.

Or are you the official in charge of giving visa's at this embassy?

BTW, there is nothing "dangerous" about being refused a tourist visa. It's inconvenient and frustrating, but never dangerous.

It is certainly dangerous to incorrectly guarantee 100% someone that will be granted the visa they apply for. They might actually believe you, then have their application refused.

Please stop giving false and incorrect visa information, not only as per the rules, but for the sake of others who might actually believe you.

Thanks.

Edited February 10, 2011 by appropriate

[NanLaew]

... The Thais at some point should recognise that there is an ethnic minority in their midst with fewer rights in Thailand than almost any other immigrant group in the world, despite having lived here in many cases for years an years. White, middle aged, male Farangs might not conisder themselves an ethnic minority, but we surely are!!

Fewer rights than what? Bit of a stretch that no?

Oh... you mean the Scousers?

[Richard4849]

Money, money, money.

Amazing how many people here think that buying a couple plates of khao phad and a few bottles of Singh a day makes them so invaluable to the Thai economy that they should be able to settle here on tourist visas for however damned well they please.

What an absolute crock. Their countries don't offer any such privilege to Thai citizens, but the Thai government is "idiotic" not to bow down to the great white God-man and give them whatever they want.

I really wish the Thai government could identify all the self-righteous, self-entitled farangs calling them "moronic" and "idiotic" on this site, and pull the welcome mat right out under their kee nok feet for life.

[appropriate]

Ok so does anyone can confirm this please :

- If i have a brand new passport, i'm 100% sure to get a DoubleE tourist Visa in vientiane ? (even if i had 3 visa in my last passport)

- Is it still free for a Double entry visa ?

To correctly answer your question, no one can guarantee what visa will be or won't be granted.

People in your situation have reported that they received the visa when applying with a new, blank passport.

[tropo]

As far as Vientiane is concerned, I am 100% correct. If you'd been there, you'd know.

You are certainly 100% incorrect. You are '100% guaranteeing' that someone will be granted a certain visa.

This is impossible and irresponsible for you to guarantee.

Or are you the official in charge of giving visa's at this embassy?

BTW, there is nothing "dangerous" about being refused a tourist visa. It's inconvenient and frustrating, but never dangerous.

It is certainly dangerous to incorrectly guarantee 100% someone that will be granted the visa they apply for. They might actually believe you, then have their application refused.

Please stop giving false and incorrect visa information, not only as per the rules, but for the sake of others who might actually believe you.

Thanks.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

You are 100% wrong and being far too dramatic.

[NanLaew]

... So if staying here longer than 6 months you are actually living here. In any country around the world you must qualify to do so and its up to each country to decide what the qualifications should be.

Since there hasn't been anyone contradicting this realistic description of the 'perpetual tourist', especially the conspicuous lack of argument from the 'perpetual tourists' themselves, I reckon this just about sums up the reality of the situation.

Thailand should stop issuing the multi-entry option of the Tourist visa IMHO. It was invented at a time when it was envisaged that the genuine tourist could base themselves in Bangkok and visit other regional tourist attractions. The world is a different place now and the current reality of immigration law abuse is the end product.

[tropo]

Thailand should stop issuing the multi-entry option of the Tourist visa IMHO. It was invented at a time when it was envisaged that the genuine tourist could base themselves in Bangkok and visit other regional tourist attractions. The world is a different place now and the current reality of immigration law abuse is the end product.

The multi-entry tourist visa does serve a purpsoe for realtourists who wish to spend the majority of their time in Thailand but make side-trips to neigboring countries.

[wtk]

The problem is that you dont accpet that you dont qualify for endless issues of tourist visa crossing the border and back. Just because someone has money does not qualify them for staying here year after year doing border runs. Tourist visas should be for tourists.

In most countries in the world you are not defined as being a tourist if your stay is over 6 months in that country. And ecause you have a stay of one day or one month outside of Thailand dont expect the Thai immigration or any other of the worlds immigration`s to accpet your tourist visa application similar to a first time tourist.

If you officially get a stronger connection to Thailand ie through a marriage, Thai child, studies or investment then you will be given visa choices in the non immigrant category.

In your case though it is little to complain about. As you say it yourself you`ve got the money and can get a one year from Hull. Just book a ticket then and go to Hull once a year and get this one year non immigrant.

If all the worlds citizens could work their way around with tourist visas to Eu countries the way foreigners living in Thailand does and Europe would have look`ed a heck of a lot different than it does today.

I was not trying to justify long term stay with tourist visas. people over 50 have their retirement visas as long as they have enough money in the bank etc. why cant people under 50 have a similar option? and yes, i have been using the non-immigrant visas for a while now but there is only 1 consulate that i know near my home country that even issues it. thats hardly what i call a solution. obviously i will keep going back there as long as possible but more of an "official" visa that is available from all embassies would be preferable

Go Back to Uk ...Or even Australia...get another Visa..If you are 50 and have Money...you can get a retirement visa....The system and rules are easy enough to follow.Remember you are a tolerated guest in Thailand...Obey the rules or sod off.

like i said i am under 50, can not get retirement visa. where is the option for under 50 with money? why should only people who are over 50 get a long term visa only because they have money?

Money, money, money.

Amazing how many people here think that buying a couple plates of khao phad and a few bottles of Singh a day makes them so invaluable to the Thai economy that they should be able to settle here on tourist visas for however damned well they please.

What an absolute crock. Their countries don't offer any such privilege to Thai citizens, but the Thai government is "idiotic" not to bow down to the great white God-man and give them whatever they want.

I really wish the Thai government could identify all the self-righteous, self-entitled farangs calling them "moronic" and "idiotic" on this site, and pull the welcome mat right out under their kee nok feet for life.

I can not understand how people here compare for example citizens from western countries settling in thailand to thais not being able to do the same in those same western countries. completely 2 different situations that can not be compared at all.

and if there was a visa between tourist visa and non-immigrant visa based on having a child, being married etc this thread would not exist

[NanLaew]

..... But remember that, if you spend more than 180 days in Thailand in a tax year (same as calendar year), you are tax resident in Thailand and need to pay tax on any income earned offshore that is remitted to Thailand within 12 months of earning it.

Woohoooo! THAT statement will get some sphincters puckering!

There's a 'drummer' on this thread who, by his own admission must be up for a few hundred grand in back taxes.

Anyone know the Thai equivalent of a CPA?

Edited February 10, 2011 by NanLaew

[Richard4849]

Why a different situation? You think farang are the only people with money? There are hundreds if thousands of Thais who could afford to live a basic life in the West without working, just like the farangs who think that they are entitled to the same in Thailand.

[david555]

Money, money, money.

Amazing how many people here think that buying a couple plates of khao phad and a few bottles of Singh a day makes them so invaluable to the Thai economy that they should be able to settle here on tourist visas for however damned well they please.

What an absolute crock. Their countries don't offer any such privilege to Thai citizens, but the Thai government is "idiotic" not to bow down to the great white God-man and give them whatever they want.

I really wish the Thai government could identify all the self-righteous, self-entitled farangs calling them "moronic" and "idiotic" on this site, and pull the welcome mat right out under their kee nok feet for life.

why such a jealousy to each other , the rich WHO can buy a business and the simple ones who jealous the business people ? Why not let the sun shine for all?

About the little money the simple ones bring , remember that especially in Pattaya almost the whole north east (isaan ) repairer the income with it , as the government does not do .... if this should dry up i guarantee a loud more problem than before with red shirts would come as the world does not stand still ....and businesses will be the first to suffer on that............... watch the world news , or do you think it can not happen here? RUSSIA/DDR/ now middle east

[appropriate]

You are 100% wrong

In what regard?

[NanLaew]

Thailand should stop issuing the multi-entry option of the Tourist visa IMHO. It was invented at a time when it was envisaged that the genuine tourist could base themselves in Bangkok and visit other regional tourist attractions. The world is a different place now and the current reality of immigration law abuse is the end product.

The multi-entry tourist visa does serve a purpsoe for realtourists who wish to spend the majority of their time in Thailand but make side-trips to neigboring countries.

OK, well.... there's you then. Who is the other one?

[appropriate]

The multi-entry tourist visa does serve a purpsoe for realtourists who wish to spend the majority of their time in Thailand but make side-trips to neigboring countries.

There is no multi-entry TR.

There is a single, double, and triple entry version.

Non-immigration visas can be granted with a 'multi-entry' option, allowing one to come and go as one pleases before the 'use before' date.

Tourist visas don't have this option, only single, double, and triple.

[NanLaew]

The multi-entry tourist visa does serve a purpsoe for realtourists who wish to spend the majority of their time in Thailand but make side-trips to neigboring countries.

There is no multi-entry TR.

There is a single, double, and triple entry version.

Non-immigration visas can be granted with a 'multi-entry' option, allowing one to come and go as one pleases before the 'use before' date.

Tourist visas don't have this option, only single, double, and triple.

Oh stop being the pedant. We are using 'multi' here in the context of 'more than single' it's a lot easier than typing "...single, double, and triple entry..."

Only absolute Thai immigration neophytes would latch onto that and start asking 'where can I get this multi-entry Tourist visa?'

Otherwise, your arguments are solid sir. People shouldn't try and make a visa that wasn't designed to fit their circumstances fit and then cry when their toes get pinched.

Edited February 10, 2011 by NanLaew

[aNoma]

Why a different situation? You think farang are the only people with money? There are hundreds if thousands of Thais who could afford to live a basic life in the West without working, just like the farangs who think that they are entitled to the same in Thailand.

You just explained the difference yourself and can't see it?....

Here it is deciphered then:

Those huge numbers of Thais could afford a basic life in the West - that's why they don't go there. That's why a huge numbers of Westerners come to Thailand (for example) - because they want to leave their basic life in the West and have a better life here. If anyone, the poor Thais want to go to the West. Why a rich Thai, or anyone living in the 'poorer' countries (Central, South America, Asia) would want to leave and settle for less what their money can buy in the sometimes 10 times more expensive 'West'?

And those farangs who spend their money on beer, that's not all they spend their money on. You can't be so naive to think anyone would suggest that. Also, if you haven't noticed, not all Thais can afford even those beers at those places where farangs go. How much do you think 'ordinary' Thais (not that group you are boasting about) earn a month?

As to the word 'idiotic', I don't think it's ever been banned from a common language and I am sure you have also used it when something affected you in the most idiotic way, and I hope nobody will be pulling mats from underneath you for that or anything else. That would be idiotic! haha

[aNoma]

Otherwise, your arguments are solid sir. People shouldn't try and make a visa that wasn't designed to fit their circumstances fit and then cry when their toes get pinched.

I don't agree (and I am NOT one of those people). From what I see, there was a certain system functioning thus created and approved, by the Thai government, for years.

It was legal and accepted. If, all of the sudden, this gets changed, you can't blame people expressing their displeasure since it's affecting their lives. Thailand thrives on tourist industry and would never be where it is now without it.

So, personally, I feel sorry for all those affected. If anything, how were those long term 'tourists' hurting Thailand? I think if anything, they were contributing by spending their money. I think it would be wise to give some alternative to those people, and not let it affect people like me, who have nothing to do with it yet I am having problems with getting a visa for absolutely no reason other than superficially having been to Thailand two times I am blacklisted.

Whatever is being done with the visa getting process, it is oversimplified by crude cutting the corners, thus creating a mess. Something should have been done, if needed to be done, after giving it a more through thought.

And I stand by the word - how it affected me is idiotic.

And one more thing that makes it very different - the Westerner coming to Thailand and Thai going to the West. A Westerner can't immigrate her and get a citizenship the same way a Thai or another national can tin the USA or Canada (for example). How many Westerners have Thai citizenship or permanent residency status? Isn't this whole fuss about not being able to get it???

Edited February 10, 2011 by aNoma

[crazydrummerpauly]

Complete nonsense. Please don't give incorrect information.

No one is ever 100% sure to get any visa (for any country in world?).

You apply, it is at the discretion of the officer whether they grant you it or not.

Absolutely right, and in my Thai Law for Foreigners bible, there is the alarming information that, to paraphrase, immigration officers have the final word on everyone's entry into the Kingdom, even if an individual has a valid visa. Quote: "In some cases, the immigration officer may not permit a foreigner holding a valid visa entry into Thailand should the immigration officer find reason to believe [ NB: reason to believe ] that he or she falls into the category of aliens prohibited from entering Thailand under the Immigration Act B.E.2522 (1979)." Now, there are 11 categories of 'undesirables' prohibited from entering Thailand - even if they have a valid visa - too lengthy to type here, but summarizing - if the Immigration Officer THINKS you might have 1, insufficient cash ,2, might work in LOS, 3, might be "mentally unstable" ( that's me f---ed) , 4, haven't been jabbed against smallpox and other diseases requiring innoculation, 5, and this one has to be quoted in full: "Having behaviour which could cause possible danger to the public; or having the likeliehood of being a nuisance or constituting any violence to the peace, safety and securityof the public or to the security of the nation...."

Hahahah.....now, everyone put up your hand if you can honestly say there has never been a time when there was a "likeliehood of being a nuisance" on your part ! But seriously, before I read this stuff, I had absolutely no idea of the POWER those officers have - hence I agree with all the advice about the need to be ultra-respectable, solvent and sane-looking when attempting any visa-run anywhere. To be honest, what surprises me is the number of geezers I personally know who are in LOS and are clearly, visibly, loopy, potless and with anarchist tendencies !!! By the strict rules of the categories referred to above, bus-loads of 'em could have been refused entry long ago based only on the hunches of a testy immigration officer. Many of them [ some my friends ] have been on borrowed time for a long time, going by the letter of Thai law.

The only way you'll be refused in Vientiane, besides having too many stickers in your passport, is if you start getting abusive and swearing at an officer, or threatening them with a knife or gun.

(If you want to people to bother reading your posts, try formatting them properly as your post resembles some pretty average gobbledygook)

Thank you for the superb, enlightened advice - I will try to be a better person/poster from now on. Actually, I am completely sure that my post contains information that a lot of TV members wouldn't have been aware of - but of course, that would never include you, who knows a lot. I get sick of the long-timers parading their knowledge in a supercilious, even aggressive way, ridiculing less-experienced members or residents - we all have to start with a blank slate and work our way upwards and onwards through the jungle of confusing rules and regulations, and i would like to see a more collegiate, liberal attitude on the part of all TV members and less of the unwarranted hostility and gratuitous criticisms that infect this website so routinely.