New Zealand Girl Dies Of Food Poisoning In Chiang Mai

[iainiain101]

This is a very sad story.

As one who eats out a lot with my family I would like to know what they ate and where.

I would guess that the analysis of the poison involved came from Ram Hospital. If any locals were also poisoned I guess they would not have gone to Ram, and maybe have been diagnosed diffently.

Iain

[jayjay0]

It's very sad to read this kind of news, then not a single word on the local press like if foreigners aren't worth to be mentioned sometimes, let alone the professionalism (very likely) being followed to find the reason of the death, i hope the family/friends of the deceased will make sure to "reconfirm" in NZ what actually killed these very unlucky travellers, RIP.

The local press is for Thai's and I doubt it is any thing out of the ordinary for them.

We English speaking here do not have a new's source and if we did yes it would be a headline article.

My sincere condolences to the family and the other girl who had to undergo heart surgery.

The article sucks. It dosen't tell weather it was a hole in the wall cafe a road side cart set up a food court or a regular restaurant.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

It's very sad to read this kind of news, then not a single word on the local press like if foreigners aren't worth to

Sorry to snip you off mid-rant, but you may have noticed that there IS no local press. At least not daily. There is Bangkok based press, who are at least a day behind any events that happens outside of Bangkok. So we may see it tomorrow, or the day after.

And I say 'MAY'. Because people die all the time, there are only so many pages available and newspapers do need to fit in things other than pictures of dead people. On the same day, dozens of other people died from all kinds of incidents and accidents. I'm not sure what your demand to the press is based on. But they'll probably accommodate; give them a day or two.

Note in general: I see this a lot on this forum (Not just Chiang Mai forum), the whining about " foreigners aren't worth to be mentioned" but what you're ACTUALY and OBJECTIVELY asking for is for foreigners to be given preferential treatment in reporting. Somehow every incident involving a foreigner should be given a full page of investigative journalism, even though Thais also die left right and center.

Edited February 8, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[elektrified]

It's very sad to read this kind of news, then not a single word on the local press like if foreigners aren't worth to

Sorry to snip you off mid-rant, but you may have noticed that there IS no local press. At least not daily. There is Bangkok based press, who are at least a day behind any events that happens outside of Bangkok. So we may see it tomorrow, or the day after.

And I say 'MAY'. Because people die all the time, there are only so many pages available and newspapers do need to fit in things other than pictures of dead people. On the same day, dozens of other people died from all kinds of incidents and accidents. I'm not sure what your demand to the press is based on. But they'll probably accommodate; give them a day or two.

Note in general: I see this a lot on this forum (Not just Chiang Mai forum), the whining about " foreigners aren't worth to be mentioned" but what you're ACTUALY and OBJECTIVELY asking for is for foreigners to be given preferential treatment in reporting. Somehow every incident involving a foreigner should be given a full page of investigative journalism, even though Thais also die left right and center.

WTK is correct as he often is. I'm friendly with a guy that owns a small restaurant that I eat at often. He also happens to be a doctor here in town. When he is there in the evenings, we often chat. He told me that many, many Thais die from food poisoning every day in hospitals all over the country. He says that the hygiene in food preparation is very poor in Thailand even in expensive places. That is one reason he owns a restaurant. He makes no profit from it. He just likes to go there and prepare his food, watch TV and read. He knows what he is eating as supervises all of the purchases himself and has certain standards of cleanliness that are followed by his staff.

So indeed some are asking for preferential treatment of foreigners in reporting.

[surayu]

The local press is for Thai's and I doubt it is any thing out of the ordinary for them.

We English speaking here do not have a new's source and if we did yes it would be a headline article.

For "local" i meant "based in Thailand" not specifically based in the very city/road where the event has taked place.

Maybe The Nation and the other major local newspaper are not considered as such from some people? so what they are then?

[cmsally]

There are 2 daily Chiang Mai newspapers - Chiang Mai News and Thai News (I think Thai news still running, haven't seen for a while). There is also the cm108.com website which churns out most headlines and news.

Haven't seen mention in any of these but maybe it is already old news?

[Donnyboy]

It's kind of amazing how clueless people can be about what is in the foods they eat.

I don't find it amazing at all. Without submitting everything I buy in a market and especially a restaurant to an analytical lab for analysis I remain largely ignorant of any adulterants or toxins that might be present.

well I suppose you could look at a list of ingredients and uh google it.

might be hard to do when visiting a food stall/ restaurant in another country and trying to be adventurous and taste the local menu

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I thought MSG was derived from cassava starch?? I think it was originally from seaweed but no longer produced that way.

Meanwhile here we are throwing around these theories and hypotheses and not a word from the local press!

The Glutamate culture can be grown on many mediums and often the choice is whatever is cheapest and local. MSG was invented in Japan from a fermented kombu seaweed and still the good quality MSG is made that way.

Now the bacteria is fermented on many different starch mediums.

People may not be aware but seaweeds are very common filler, enhancer, additive in foods. Along with Corn and Soy products its how producers keep the prices down and provide textures and tastes to many types of foods.

Additionally seaweed is used extensively for fertilizers and just about every other commercial use you can think of.

Seaweeds are a very broad and inexpensive source ingredient and can be thought of as sea plants or vegetables.

If they got a report of seaweed poisoning or toxicity then probably from a Toxicity screen in the hospital and may be difficult to pin down the exact source. Also many people have seaweed allergies that can combine with other factors.

[ukrules]

This does sound like the 'toxic fish' problem where fish eat seaweed containing Ciguatera which accumulates in their bodies, when the fish are subsequently eaten there can be a reaction to the large amount of accumulated toxins. As to whether this is possible from eating seaweed directly is anyone's guess.

Here's a link : http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/FoodborneIllness/FoodborneIllnessFoodbornePathogensNaturalToxins/BadBugBook/ucm070772.htm

I suspect if you end up with a fish on your plate which happens to contain this then you will have a problem and there is no way to prevent it.

[Cnxforever]

First of all my condolences to the family and friends of Sarah - what a terrible tragedy!

They most probable can't be sure yet what really caused the food poisoning - of course the doctor tries to find out first - if there are several patients with the same symptoms - what they ate or drank in common to eliminate items which not all of them had - and could most likely not be the cause for the poisoning.

To cause such a sever reaction there must have almost certainly a toxin been involved. As food poisoning is caused by bacteria and - often mistakenly diagnosed as food poisoning - by a virus either Rota or most common the dreaded Norovirus - which causes the same symptoms as bacterial food poisoning.

What is surprising in this case is that it was so sever that it ended fatal - as healthy young people usually suffer from Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, sometimes fever for approx. 48 hours and then the worst is behind them - food poisoning in healthy young people is hardly ever deadly - the very young and elderly are much more at risk here.

Sever cases caused by certain bacteria can cause kidney failure. There are countless bacteria that could be responsible and only the doctor and the lab can find out what really happened.

To pin it on Seaweed is strange as seaweed is actually known to brake down toxins - are even used to detoxify skin and support liver function. It could of course be that the seaweed they ate was condaminated by one of the countless bacteria that causes food poisoning. Having most likely been consumed uncooked this is the most likely scenario here.

As somebody mentioned here that fish condaminated by seaweed could have been the cause - this is hardly possible as the the tropical fish which consume Gambierdiscus toxicus a marine algae which causes Ciguatera poisoning (classified as food poisoning) are hardly ever sever - but no cure exists so far.

Being myself a HACCP, USPH and UKPH trainer / inspector in large scale food production facilities I am only surprised that food borne illnesses do not occur much more frequently here - frankly said walking through a market here (watermelons cut and displayed for hours!!) or seeing food stall's and restaurant's (not all of them of course) - food handling / storing and (non-existing) sanitation procedures - gives me the shivers.

Most places are only lucky that they serve food steaming hot which kills most bacteria - but of course eating raw or undercooked items are a totally different matter.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Cnxforever

[neverdie]

This does sound like the 'toxic fish' problem where fish eat seaweed containing Ciguatera which accumulates in their bodies, when the fish are subsequently eaten there can be a reaction to the large amount of accumulated toxins. As to whether this is possible from eating seaweed directly is anyone's guess.

Here's a link : http://www.fda.gov/F...k/ucm070772.htm

I suspect if you end up with a fish on your plate which happens to contain this then you will have a problem and there is no way to prevent it.

Interesting information, thanks for posting.

My thoughts and condolences to the family, very sad indeed to see someone cut down in the prime of their life.

[kjhbigv]

Which food market is responsible?

Yes would be nice to know. But you can't name and shame here regrettably

Really sad....I for one, would like to know where they ate.....can't believe the normal rules of no 'naming and shaming' would apply in these circumstances....after a death of someone!!?? Surely not!?

We are not talking about being ripped off by some business BUT a death from eating something somewhere in Chiang Mai that any one of us could eat from!

Maybe the lucky surviving girls can shed some light at some point in the future. I hope they have a speedy recovery.

[softgeorge]

I read this story in the Australian media today and I search for mention of it in the thai media and could not find anything. Nothing in the thainews forum either. Might be a good idea if this thread is moved to thainews forum where more can see it. Provide a warning to those across the country if they are thinking of consuming something similar.

[lannarebirth]

Could the "food market" in the original post, mean "food centre", as in those coupon places in supermarkets & malls? Don't some of those serve sushi?

Many many places serve sushi now, markets included. Very rarely do you see any of it on ice and often you see the cart in direct sunlight. I love sushi but I won't eat it from anyplace it isn't chilled.

[anonymouse]

It's very sad to read this kind of news, then not a single word on the local press like if foreigners aren't worth to

Sorry to snip you off mid-rant, but you may have noticed that there IS no local press. At least not daily. There is Bangkok based press, who are at least a day behind any events that happens outside of Bangkok. So we may see it tomorrow, or the day after.

And I say 'MAY'. Because people die all the time, there are only so many pages available and newspapers do need to fit in things other than pictures of dead people. On the same day, dozens of other people died from all kinds of incidents and accidents. I'm not sure what your demand to the press is based on. But they'll probably accommodate; give them a day or two.

Note in general: I see this a lot on this forum (Not just Chiang Mai forum), the whining about " foreigners aren't worth to be mentioned" but what you're ACTUALY and OBJECTIVELY asking for is for foreigners to be given preferential treatment in reporting. Somehow every incident involving a foreigner should be given a full page of investigative journalism, even though Thais also die left right and center.

WTK is correct as he often is. I'm friendly with a guy that owns a small restaurant that I eat at often. He also happens to be a doctor here in town. When he is there in the evenings, we often chat. He told me that many, many Thais die from food poisoning every day in hospitals all over the country. He says that the hygiene in food preparation is very poor in Thailand even in expensive places. That is one reason he owns a restaurant. He makes no profit from it. He just likes to go there and prepare his food, watch TV and read. He knows what he is eating as supervises all of the purchases himself and has certain standards of cleanliness that are followed by his staff.

So indeed some are asking for preferential treatment of foreigners in reporting.

Yes the Kwai has redemed himself after his retiring in CM post , there is also a good chance that some locals might have eaten the same food and got very sick but were treated at one of the general hospitals and no one in the media even noticed.

[LaoPo]

The only article I could find was one about fish eating toxic seaweed and the fish becoming toxic. I think I'll be avoiding sea fish, thank you. I agree the seaweed theory seems unlikely.

http://www.democrati...ress=115x114804 from 2007

I admit I never heard of TOXIC SEAWEED but it seems to occur in France's and UK's beaches from time to time:

http://www.google.co...2894ea6451725d2

YET..it seems strange that the girl died from eating food with or containing toxic seaweed on a market in Chiang Mai, far away from the ocean; surely more people (Thai) must have eaten the same kind of food from the same stall during that day and got seriously sick ?

But, nevertheless....what a tragic way to die and may she RIP and my condolences to her family and friends :jap:

LaoPo

[Ulysses G.]

Many many places serve sushi now, markets included. Very rarely do you see any of it on ice and often you see the cart in direct sunlight. I love sushi but I won't eat it from anyplace it isn't chilled.

I have not noticed anything but vegetarian sushi being sold like that. Am I not looking closely enough?

[anonymouse]

Many many places serve sushi now, markets included. Very rarely do you see any of it on ice and often you see the cart in direct sunlight. I love sushi but I won't eat it from anyplace it isn't chilled.

I have not noticed anything but vegetarian sushi being sold like that. Am I not looking closely enough?

I've seen some at warawot and sompet not on ice and made with tuna and sea food such as shrimp, I've even stupidly eaten the stuff from time to time.

[Ulysses G.]

Now that I think of it, a lot of Thai bakeries sell little tuna sandwiches all day long that have not been refrigerated.

[surayu]

i don't think that entire rows of tables at the local street's markets, full of raw meats of every kind and fishes exposed to the sun without any ice would be a new sight for anyone living here...

[eek]

My condolences to family and friends. RIP Sarah. Sad loss.

[orang37]

What a tragedy to see such a lovely young person struck down. Deepest empathies to her family at this time.

Really hope, for the sake of everyone here in the future, that a proper autopsy and toxicology screen is carried out, and that the treatment given by the hospital is reviewed carefully (please note: that in saying this we are NOT implying that there was anything improper or sub-standard in the care the afflicted persons received).

Never heard of "toxic seaweed" before, and, while nothing dilutes the tragedy of this moment, people do die of food poisoning all over the world, in every country, frequently. We read America had a recent large-scale episode of raw eggs contaminated with salmonella (but we do not know if anyone died from eating them).

sadly, ~o:37;

Edited February 8, 2011 by orang37

[softgeorge]

I am not saying that this is the cause of this tragedy but just wondering. Food for thought.

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) - Unscrupulous vendors in Thailand have been selling meat of the deadly puffer fish disguised as salmon, causing the deaths of more than 15 people over the past three years, a doctor said Thursday.

Although banned since 2002, puffer fish continues to be sold in large quantities at local markets and restaurants, said Narin Hiransuthikul of Bangkok's Chulalonkorn University Hospital.

``Some sellers dye the meat of puffer fish and make it look like salmon which is very dangerous,'' Narin said.

Narin said over the past three years more than 15 people have died and about 115 were hospitalized from eating the fish.

Source: guardian.co.uk

Despite the care taken in preparation, in some cases the diner experiences numbness in the tongue and lips, sensations that often disappear. In other cases these symptoms are followed by more serious events such as headaches, nausea, vomiting and paralysis of the face and extremities. Extreme cases will experience acute paralysis, respiratory distress, convulsions, cardiac arrhythmia and speech impairment and finally, death.

[orang37]

What a tragedy to see such a lovely young person struck down. Deepest empathies to her family at this time.

Really hope, for the sake of everyone here in the future, that a proper autopsy and toxicology screen is carried out, and that the treatment given by the hospital is reviewed carefully (please note that in saying this we are NOT implying that there was anything improper or sub-standard in the care the afflicted persons received).

Never heard of "toxic seaweed" before, and, while nothing dilutes the tragedy of this moment, people do die of food poisoning all over the world, in every country, frequently. We read America had a recent large-scale episode of raw eggs contaminated with salmonella (but we do not know if anyone died from eating them).

sadly, ~o:37;

[Lobin]

Source: guardian.co.uk

link broken?

[nikster]

RIP girl - what a tragedy!

This is the second case of fatal food poisoning in CM I heard about in 2 weeks. First one was due to Sushi.

Now Sushi must be fresh - in Thailand, you won't find that outside the professional chains or a handful, select, Japanese sushi places. The vast majority is hazardous. Those little market stalls certainly take the cake but even small independent restaurants are to be avoided.

[Donnyboy]

from the Herald this morning, cant say Ive ever seen it sold in the markets in any great quantity thou

EDIBLE SEAWEED

* There are several types of edible seaweed used in many countries.

* The high iodine content can produce iodine toxicity if large amounts are consumed.

* Rotting seaweed is also a potent source of hydrogen sulfide, a highly toxic gas which can cause vomiting and diarrhoea, but is rarely fatal.

* Most edible seaweed is marine algae - most freshwater algae is toxic.While marine algae is not generally toxic, some do contain acids that irritate the digestion canal, while others can have a laxative effect.

* Is a staple food in most parts of Asia and is used in soups, salads and as a side dish.

* Recognised in many Western countries, as being used in sushi and in spirulina.

RIP

[spha6092]

This is so sad, what a tragedy :-( A friend from Australia just emailed me about this too. I feel like it's a timely reminder to be more careful, as I have never been particularly wary of eating street food here. I guess I should be!

[NancyL]

It is always so sad to read of vibrant, young people, excited to be on the verge of life passing away in our fair city. My condolences to her family and friends.

In my country, often the famlies of victims of these types of situations will go on the morning TV talk shows to tell of the story. Frankly, I think the producers of these shows exploit the grief of these families, but people continue to do it and there is some good from it. Often the families say they want to tell the story so that someone else can be saved from a similiar dealth. Perhaps the family will do that eventually. The surviving friends may not know exactly where they ate, but they could prevent others from having a similar death if they'd share the type of food involved and the situation where it was consumed -- food court at mall, street food vendor, cooking school class, hi-so restaurant, etc.

[jackr]

What a waste. RIP

Would be useful to know this place and also for someone to delete the inappropriate drivel on page 2.