Getting My Wife A Itin(Indivisual Tax Identification Number)

[painterscabin]

Hello everyone, I need to know what documents I need to include with a Form W-7, application for an ITIN (Indivisual Tax Identification Number) for my wife, and can these documents be cirtifed copies, like her pasport for one. And are copies certified here in thailand exceptable .Oh yes this is for U.S tax purposes, thanks

[soundman]

Moved to Business, banking, investment forum.

Moved.

[Pib]

Page 2 of the W-7 instructions talks the notary requirement and the required documents (minimum of two docs apparently unless the person has a passport to submit). See the following link for the instructions: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw7.pdf

[lopburi3]

For notary service you would use the American Consulate services.

[Nisa]

I am not sure the American Consulate will notarize a copy of a Thai passport.

See: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw7.pdf

Consular offices at U.S. Embassies and Consulates overseas may not certify true copies of foreign public documents and will refer applicants to the foreign authority that issued the document. Have the copies notarized by a foreign notary. However foreign notaries are only acceptable as outlined by the Hague Convention.

If anybody has any first hand info on this subject I would also appreciate it. Still browsing through the link above (thanks) but I hate dealing with and trying to understand this kind of stuff.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Nisa

[Smokin Joe]

The US Embassy does do it. They made a copy of my wife's passport and put a big stamp on it saying it was a certified copy.

It was accepted by the IRS and they issued the ITIN with no problem. This was about four years ago.

That's all you need I believe, the certified copy and the W-7, both of which you include with your 2010 tax return when you submit it.

[InterestedObserver]

I believe the the US Embassy, American Citizens Services located in the Consulate building, no longer certifies copies of Thai passports for the stated purpose. The true copy of a Thai passport must be certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

From IRS Form W-7 instructions:

Consular offices at U.S.Embassies and Consulates overseas may not certify true copies of foreign public documents and will refer applicants to the foreign authority that issued the document.

Edited February 10, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[Nisa]

I believe the the US Embassy, American Citizens Services located in the Consulate building, no longer certifies copies of Thai passports for the stated purpose. The copy of a Thai passport must be certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Any idea the costs and where they are located? Don't need an address just wondering if they are local to MRT/BTS or outside BKK.

[Pib]

I believe the the US Embassy, American Citizens Services located in the Consulate building, no longer certifies copies of Thai passports for the stated purpose. The copy of a Thai passport must be certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Any idea the costs and where they are located? Don't need an address just wondering if they are local to MRT/BTS or outside BKK.

They are on Wireless Road. Here's their web site for more info. Costs $50 per notarized document. http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service.html

[InterestedObserver]

I believe the the US Embassy, American Citizens Services located in the Consulate building, no longer certifies copies of Thai passports for the stated purpose. The copy of a Thai passport must be certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Any idea the costs and where they are located? Don't need an address just wondering if they are local to MRT/BTS or outside BKK.

If you do the leg work yourself the cost is minimal. Translation agencies will do everything for you, at a cost.

Location :

Legalization Division , 3rd floor

Department of Consular Affairs

Ministry of Foreign Affairs

123 Chaeng Watthana Road

Bangkok 10210

[Nisa]

I believe the the US Embassy, American Citizens Services located in the Consulate building, no longer certifies copies of Thai passports for the stated purpose. The copy of a Thai passport must be certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Any idea the costs and where they are located? Don't need an address just wondering if they are local to MRT/BTS or outside BKK.

They are on Wireless Road. Here's their web site for more info. Costs $50 per notarized document. http://bangkok.usemb...ov/service.html

Thanks but was wondering about the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs not the US Embassy.

[Nisa]

I believe the the US Embassy, American Citizens Services located in the Consulate building, no longer certifies copies of Thai passports for the stated purpose. The copy of a Thai passport must be certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Any idea the costs and where they are located? Don't need an address just wondering if they are local to MRT/BTS or outside BKK.

If you do the leg work yourself the cost is minimal. Translation agencies will do everything for you, at a cost.

Location :

Legalization Division , 3rd floor

Department of Consular Affairs

Ministry of Foreign Affairs

123 Chaeng Watthana Road

Bangkok 10210

Thanks! Any words of advice or is simply going in with the passport, passport copies and my Thai wife w/her ID going should be good enough? I certainly hope they charge less than the US Embassy at $50 a pop. I think my US bank used to do it for free while other places charged like $10 ... then again it has been a while I've used a notary beyond the embassy.

Edit: now that i think about it we had to send papers there when we got married .. it was pretty minimal $ and we had the translation guy send them for us and had them mailed (signed) back to us for a small fee ... especially when we considered having to get over there and spend unknown time in line.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Nisa

[TongueThaied]

I am not sure the American Consulate will notarize a copy of a Thai passport.

See: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw7.pdf

Consular offices at U.S. Embassies and Consulates overseas may not certify true copies of foreign public documents and will refer applicants to the foreign authority that issued the document. Have the copies notarized by a foreign notary. However foreign notaries are only acceptable as outlined by the Hague Convention.

If anybody has any first hand info on this subject I would also appreciate it. Still browsing through the link above (thanks) but I hate dealing with and trying to understand this kind of stuff.

Also in the instructions, please note, you can send original documents and US Governemtn will return them to you. You must send either: (1) a valid passport; or (2) two other valid picture ID's, such as driver license and Government ID. The last two are listed as acceptable.

My experience: I did not wnat to pay Consular Services $50 for each certification, so I simply sent the originals of my wifes Government ID and Driver License. The US Government rejected them and returned them to my in Thailand. But what can I expect from a bunch of arrogant, fascist arbitary bureaucrats? So next, I resubmitted everything with my wife's original passport. the application went through and the passport was returned. Here's the deal, if you wife will not be needing her passport for awhile, it is a lot cheaper to replace it than it is to pay US Consular services $50, especially if you have to travel to get there. Besides, who wants to deal with those rude <deleted> at the US Embassy anyway?

Save yourself a lot of headache and expense and just send the o0riginal passport. You are also required to submit the W-7 WITH YOUR TAX RETURN to a special address shown in the instructions. If you do not dot all the i's and cross all the t's, the <deleted> will reject it.

[Smokin Joe]

Ignore my advice about the US Embassy ACS doing it. They did it for my wife's a few years ago but they no longer do. The other posters are correct.

I just called American Citizen Services to confirm and was told that the rules had changed. I didn't want to continue giving bad info so wanted to get the info right from the source.

[mstribling]

Not to hijack the thread, but does anyone have an idea how long the process is to receive the ITIN back?

Just did all my taxes yesterday and am only waiting to get the ITIN's back.

Thanks.<div><br></div><div>Sorry. I just learned that it takes 8-10 weeks. </div>

Edited February 11, 2011 by mstribling

[painterscabin]

Painterscabin here, thanks everyone for the imput. One thing, sending an original passport makes me uneasy, besides Ive never had any mail come to me in thailand successfully yet. Thanks again, but if you know 100% that a certifide copy obtained in thailand is acceptable, please write again, oh yes I'm in nong khai provence

[painterscabin]

I found this on the net,

Notarial Services

The American Citizen Services Unit performs notarial services during normal working hours. Appointments for notarial services can be made online here.

Notarial services provided by the Embassy are primarily for the benefit of American citizens and legal permanent residents. Foreign nationals may also have documents notarized, but only if the documents will be used in the United States

[JimGant]

Just did all my taxes yesterday and am only waiting to get the ITIN's back.

If the ITIN is so you can file jointly, you're supposed to file the tax return along with the W-7 application. The Feds will process the W-7, then forward the tax return for processing.

Remember to attach a letter stating: ...that one spouse was a nonresident alien and the other spouse a U.S. citizen or resident alien on the last day of your tax year, and that you choose to be treated as US residents for the entire tax year..

[mstribling]

Just did all my taxes yesterday and am only waiting to get the ITIN's back.

If the ITIN is so you can file jointly, you're supposed to file the tax return along with the W-7 application. The Feds will process the W-7, then forward the tax return for processing.

Remember to attach a letter stating: ...that one spouse was a nonresident alien and the other spouse a U.S. citizen or resident alien on the last day of your tax year, and that you choose to be treated as US residents for the entire tax year..

Got it. Thanks

[Nisa]

What is funny (actually not) is that it says ...

See: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw7.pdf

Consular offices at U.S. Embassies and Consulates overseas may not certify true copies of foreign public documents and will refer applicants to the foreign authority that issued the document. Have the copies notarized by a foreign notary. However foreign notaries are only acceptable as outlined by the Hague Convention.

But then when you got to : http://www.irs.gov/b...d=96690,00.html (Obtaining an ITIN from Abroad)

It provides a link to a list of countries that are signers for the Haugue Convention it doesn't show Thailand

See: http://www.hcch.net/...s.status&cid=41 (Abolishing the Requirement of Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents)

The updates status table shows Thailand as neither a non-member or member signer.

So, now I am wondering who do you actually get to do the certifying/notary if the US Embassy will not do it and it appears the IRS isn't going to recognize a Thai notary. Maybe I am reading this wrong because it would also seem that the US Embassy should be able to notarize these documents being they are a signer of this Haugue Convention. Yet, they say they won't

Edited February 11, 2011 by Nisa

[InterestedObserver]

Painterscabin here, thanks everyone for the imput. One thing, sending an original passport makes me uneasy, besides Ive never had any mail come to me in thailand successfully yet. Thanks again, but if you know 100% that a certifide copy obtained in thailand is acceptable, please write again, oh yes I'm in nong khai provence

Get certified true copy from Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs located at:

Legalization Division , 3rd floor

Department of Consular Affairs

Ministry of Foreign Affairs

123 Chaeng Watthana Road

Bangkok 10210

[InterestedObserver]

What is funny (actually not) is that it says ...

See: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw7.pdf

Consular offices at U.S. Embassies and Consulates overseas may not certify true copies of foreign public documents and will refer applicants to the foreign authority that issued the document. Have the copies notarized by a foreign notary. However foreign notaries are only acceptable as outlined by the Hague Convention.

But then when you got to : http://www.irs.gov/b...d=96690,00.html (Obtaining an ITIN from Abroad)

It provides a link to a list of countries that are signers for the Haugue Convention it doesn't show Thailand

See: http://www.hcch.net/...s.status&cid=41 (Abolishing the Requirement of Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents)

The updates status table shows Thailand as neither a non-member or member signer.

So, now I am wondering who do you actually get to do the certifying/notary if the US Embassy will not do it and it appears the IRS isn't going to recognize a Thai notary. Maybe I am reading this wrong because it would also seem that the US Embassy should be able to notarize these documents being they are a signer of this Haugue Convention. Yet, they say they won't

1. True, Thailand is not a signatory to the Hague Convention for documents. That is the reason why you have to get the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs to certify your Thai document translations and true copies. They are considered the foreign authority that issued the document.

2. The US Embassy can authenticate (legalize) the Thai signature and seal on the documents after you have submitted them to the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

[Nisa]

What is funny (actually not) is that it says ...

See: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw7.pdf

Consular offices at U.S. Embassies and Consulates overseas may not certify true copies of foreign public documents and will refer applicants to the foreign authority that issued the document. Have the copies notarized by a foreign notary. However foreign notaries are only acceptable as outlined by the Hague Convention.

But then when you got to : http://www.irs.gov/b...d=96690,00.html (Obtaining an ITIN from Abroad)

It provides a link to a list of countries that are signers for the Haugue Convention it doesn't show Thailand

See: http://www.hcch.net/...s.status&cid=41 (Abolishing the Requirement of Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents)

The updates status table shows Thailand as neither a non-member or member signer.

So, now I am wondering who do you actually get to do the certifying/notary if the US Embassy will not do it and it appears the IRS isn't going to recognize a Thai notary. Maybe I am reading this wrong because it would also seem that the US Embassy should be able to notarize these documents being they are a signer of this Haugue Convention. Yet, they say they won't

1. True, Thailand is not a signatory to the Hague Convention for documents. That is the reason why you have to get the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs to certify your Thai document translations and true copies. They are considered the foreign authority that issued the document.

2. The US Embassy can authenticate (legalize) the Thai signature and seal on the documents after you have submitted them to the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

I really appreciate this as I am going to have one shot at doing this without great complication since I am going to be back in the US without my wife for a couple months starting next month. But to clarify what you are saying and now how I am reading the requirements (first link in above post) ... I need to get the copy CERTIFIED by the Thai Ministry and then get the certification NOTARIZED at the US Embassy. Is that right?

Sounds like I should probably make a call to the IRS to be sure and save headaches though am sure the call will result in a headache..

[painterscabin]

Hello everyone again, I heard back from citizen services, take wifes passport to ministry of foreign affairs, get a certifed copy, bring it to the embessy, then they sign off on the signiture for my tax purposes. Ok got the answer. Thanks all, some of you had the anwser right on

[Nisa]

Hello everyone again, I heard back from citizen services, take wifes passport to ministry of foreign affairs, get a certifed copy, bring it to the embessy, then they sign off on the signiture for my tax purposes. Ok got the answer. Thanks all, some of you had the anwser right on

Did they mention if it was a $50 charge at the Embassy?

I'm sure they didn't get into it but what the heck is Embassy signing off on? The Thai cannot go into US Citizen Services. So, it is not like they are checking her ID or signature. They simply appear to be saying the Thai Certification from from Foreign Affairs is legitimate. If they can do this then certainly the IRS should be able to as well as any other notary that is free (such as my bank in the US) and doesn't take waiting around an hour+. I just don't get it because the Embassy cannot Notarize a document copy without the original and they cannot consider the original Thai Passport since it if foreign and the whole reason you need to go to the Thai Ministry. Nor can the notarize a foreign a copy of a foreign signature without the person signing in front of them and I don't think the Thai Foreign Affairs office is going to be heading over to the Embassy with us.

I truly appreciate the answers and your (and everyones) checking into this but I am going to try to call the IRS next week and see what they will accept before handing over another $50 to the Embassy.

[InterestedObserver]

I truly appreciate the answers and your (and everyones) checking into this but I am going to try to call the IRS next week and see what they will accept before handing over another $50 to the Embassy.

The Instructions for Form W-7 list 13 documents that can be used to prove foreign status and identity. A foreign passport is the only one that can stand alone (i.e., establishes both foreign status and identity). If a passport is submitted, there is no need to submit any other documents. If a passport is not submitted, a combination of at least two other documents, with at least one containing a photograph, must be submitted with the ITIN application. The IRS will accept copies of original documents, if the copies have been properly certified or notorized by:

1. the government agency (foreign or domestic) which issued the documents,
2. employees of the U.S. State Department located in U.S. embassies and consulates abroad, or
3. a U.S. notary public who is allowed under U.S. state law to notarize foreign documents.

It is strongly recommended that, if possible, authorized "copies" of documents be sent in lieu of "originals".

NOTE: We are talking about a wife's Thai passport with the husbands surname - the same name as on his IRS forms.

Edited February 12, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[Nisa]

I truly appreciate the answers and your (and everyones) checking into this but I am going to try to call the IRS next week and see what they will accept before handing over another $50 to the Embassy.

The Instructions for Form W-7 list 13 documents that can be used to prove foreign status and identity. A foreign passport is the only one that can stand alone (i.e., establishes both foreign status and identity). If a passport is submitted, there is no need to submit any other documents. If a passport is not submitted, a combination of at least two other documents, with at least one containing a photograph, must be submitted with the ITIN application. The IRS will accept copies of original documents, if the copies have been properly certified or notorized by:

1. the government agency (foreign or domestic) which issued the documents,
2. employees of the U.S. State Department located in U.S. embassies and consulates abroad, or
3. a U.S. notary public who is allowed under U.S. state law to notarize foreign documents.

It is strongly recommended that, if possible, authorized "copies" of documents be sent in lieu of "originals".

NOTE: We are talking about a wife's Thai passport with the husbands surname - the same name as on his IRS forms.

copies that have been properly "certified" or notorized by the government agency (foreign or domestic) which issued the documents are acceptable.

Thanks, I think this clears it up .. There is no reason to go to the embassy.

I got caught up on the copy being "notarized" as opposed to also being able to be certified.

[Gonsalviz]

I went to the US consulate and got roped into their scam. They told me I had to get the Passport certified by the Foreign ministry (around $50 through an agency) and then have them certify that the guy at the foreign ministry was indeed qualified to certify such document. Another $50.

I read the ITIN handbook and i am sure that this is really what you have to do even though it does seem like a scam.

[lopburi3]

Just as the Department of State in Washington legalize US documents for foreign use the MFA in Thailand performs that function of Thai documents to be used outside Thailand. The US Consular service will confirm the signature is valid and authorized to sign such a document (Embassy will have signatures on file). So yes it does appears to be a double process. It's a one time expense (for most people).

[T_Dog]

Anyone have any recent experience on how long it is taking to get an ITIN processed? My wife sent her form in about seven weeks ago and no news yet. Gets a bit worrisome when you have a mail system that is not one hundred percent reliable.