Value For Your Money

[jimbeam1]

What some people seem to think is charging based on race (or nationality) which they characterize as "racism" is in fact free market pricing based on profiling. Westerners have been thoroughly indoctrinated that there is "one" price for everything and their whole lives have reinforced with virtually everything having a set, marked price.

When confronted with a market where the price is subject to minute to minute changes based on what the market will pay at that point, they choose to call it racism rather then a market with pricing based on pure capitalism, which they have never been exposed to before.

They then get all excited and huffy and don't buy (which is their right in pure capitalism) while the seller just shrugs his shoulders and waits for the next customer.

That is the entire point of Ian's OP. In pure capitalism you pay what the item or service is worth to you. That is only criteria.

TH

Bingo! Give thaihome a kewpie doll from the top shelf. He gets it.

If I think my extrra 100 baht will help some Thai working his butt off for a pittance than I'll do so. However, I also use my feet when someone is over charging for something I know I can get for much less elsewhere. Thailand is FULL of anomalies. You pay more for most electronics and other imported items, but much less for most services. As someone already said... Thailand is the wild west where you are on your own and have to take responsiblity for your own actions. I like it for that very feature. A simple traffic fine in Thailand varies between 200 and 400 baht. ANY traffic fine in Canada starts at the equivalent of 6000 baht. Which would you rather pay... even if the Thai traffic offence is somewhat of a ripoff to earn tea money for the local police?

Roll up, roll up, for the National Farang lucky dip. How much will you be charged this time?

Would also like to add. We were at On- Nut the other day and decided to have a look around the market, near the BTS, my girlfriend saw a dress clearly marked at 150bt Not expensive, she thought about it, asked me my opinion, decided to buy it. The lady said 250bt. Girlfriend looked at her smiled, got hold of my hand and walked away. Ok so at 250bt not expensive. But racism and priorities.

jb1

+1,

My wife the same. Good for you and especially your perhaps angry wife. 10 out of 10. A rip off is a rip off what ever country you are in.

Sorry, must add. My wife read your post and said your wife real Thai lady and feel like sister. Cool eh.

Trans Am, Thanks for the reply.

jb1

[mstribling]

True. We charge non residents more to go fishing. I know of several parking scams in Orlando directed at Europeans. The hustle is everywhere you go.

You just have to have your game.

[IanForbes]

Sorry Ian

Maybe you shouldn't have started this thread, if you weren't prepared to listen to other peoples opinions.

I usually don't worry too much about sex tourists, live and let live is what I say.

But you appear to have totally lost the plot today.

I didn't lose the plot. I was just replying to a post that said that "I" should change my point of view. And, it was others who changed this topic into a racist thing. I can discuss either topic with equal fairness.

I'm not saying everyone should follow my example. I live my life entirely separate from what others do or believe in. I don't like getting ripped of any more than anyone else does. If a merchant tries to double the price of an item because he thinks I'm foolish then I vote with my feet... just as others do. Let the merchant suffer from his own greed. It's got nothing to do with racism and everything to do with the value for your money. I give more to those that don't request it and give less to those that use questionable ethics. But, if I really want something and I feel it is good value for my money then I'll pay an increased price. I know if I search long enough I can find items cheaper in one place than in another, but is it worth my time to do that much hunting?

And, I've said many times that I question the Thai policy of raising prices when customers disappear. It was ludicrous in the sexpat areas of Bangkok when that happened. It just drove more customers away from the Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy areas, and who eventually ended up in Pattaya where they weren't charged 180 baht for a bottle of Thai beer. I stay away from Phuket for the very same reason.

Do I think that native Thais should pay less for National parks? Probably, but how much less is a debatable point. But, it doesn't really matter to me because I don't have to visit the parks if I don't want to. A $10 or $12 outing for an interesting day really isn't that much. But, why would I go to Koh Samui National Park when I can find equally good beaches for nothing? it's just a case of value for my money.

[MrsMills]

As I said before, that is one thing we CAN do. Avoid places that treat you differently based on your race.

Westerners can get away with a whole lot more than most Thai people can in Thailand based on the fact they are foreigners.

So many threads here on this Forum go on about how racist it is here, yet if we look at many posts on ThaiVisa they are incredibly racist against Thai people, Thai people are lumped together, ridiculed, mocked and looked down upon by so many here, if Thai people had the same attitude towards us in real life as many Farangs here on this Forum have towards Thailand and Thai people in general, I think we would all leave as soon as possible.

At the rate that some people post, it's hard to imagine they ever leave their rooms anyway, so whatever happens in the outside world away from a computer would have little effect on them.

I think that you people who complain all the time about Thailand have an ulterior motive, secretly you love the place, you know you can do things here that would never be possible in your own countries unless you were very rich, buy a House for Cash, Condo for Cash, Car for cash, get a Woman 5 years younger than your grandchild etc etc, and you don't want any other Farangs coming here to live, you don't want the competition, LOL. C'mon guys, admit it !!

For instance, if a guy were browsing the internet came across this site and believed everything that was written, he'd probably think Thailand was a complete dump and that Farangs are regularly crucified by the side of the road whilst Thai people pelt them with buffalo dung.

Black guy gets stopped in the States by a cop, he screams racism, and what about all the White guys that get stopped by the cops, is that racism too ?

In Thailand we are a minority, and like most minorities many think that all the things that happen to them are based on that fact.

Farang gets stopped by a cop in Thailand, he screams racism, what about all the Thai guys that get stopped, is that racism too ?

Edited February 15, 2011 by MrsMills

[transam]

As I said before, that is one thing we CAN do. Avoid places that treat you differently based on your race.

Westerners can get away with a whole lot more than most Thai people can in Thailand based on the fact they are foreigners.

So many threads here on this Forum go on about how racist it is here, yet if we look at many posts on ThaiVisa they are incredibly racist against Thai people, Thai people are lumped together, ridiculed, mocked and looked down upon by so many here, if Thai people had the same attitude towards us in real life as many Farangs here on this Forum have towards Thailand and Thai people in general, I think we would all leave as soon as possible.

At the rate that some people post, it's hard to imagine they ever leave their rooms anyway, so whatever happens in the outside world away from a computer would have little effect on them.

I think that you people who complain all the time about Thailand have an ulterior motive, secretly you love the place, you know you can do things here that would never be possible in your own countries unless you were very rich, buy a House for Cash, Condo for Cash, Car for cash, get a Woman 5 years younger than your grandchild etc etc, and you don't want any other Farangs coming here to live, you don't want the competition, LOL. C'mon guys, admit it !!

For instance, if a guy were browsing the internet came across this site and believed everything that was written, he'd probably think Thailand was a complete dump and that Farangs are regularly crucified by the side of the road whilst Thai people pelt them with buffalo dung.

Black guy gets stopped in the States by a cop, he screams racism, and what about all the White guys that get stopped by the cops, is that racism too ?

In Thailand we are a minority, and like most minorities many think that all the things that happen to them are based on that fact.

Farang gets stopped by a cop in Thailand, he screams racism, what about all the Thai guys that get stopped, is that racism too ?

I must ask, how long have you been in LOS ?

Your point about some posting a lot, how many hours do farangs sit in front of the television in the west per day ?. How many hours do retired farangs sit in front of the television in the west per day ?

I don't watch television in LOS except last thing before l sleep, then a film perhaps.

[IanForbes]

I must ask, how long have you been in LOS ?

Your point about some posting a lot, how many hours do farangs sit in front of the television in the west per day ?. How many hours do retired farangs sit in front of the television in the west per day ?

I don't watch television in LOS except last thing before l sleep, then a film perhaps.

We've wandered a long way off topic here, Transom, but I do understand where you are coming from and I don't disagree with all that you have been saying.

I don't watch television here in Thailand, either. I had the staff in my hotel take it out of my room. Besides my "other" activities, I spend my time either writing my book or popping onto the internet from time to time for a rest break. I learned a long time ago that the less you do the less you WANT to do. And, if you want something done then ask a busy person. A busy person always finds time to do more. A lazy person never has time to do anything. But, that is also a long way off topic on this thead.

[troehr]

Double pricing at National Parks isn't racist.

If it was racist white residents in Thailand wouldn't be able to show a Driving license and get the reduced price would they ? If it was based on skin color a License would make no difference at all, you're still white.

Even if you show your license at the parks near where I live, you still pay the tourist price. They don't care.

[citizen33]

Price differentiation is an accepted phenomenon throughout the world. If you want to buy an underground train ticket in London, it costs more if you buy it before 9:30am (9:00? can't remember now) than after. No one complains.

Another person who simply hasn't done his homework repeating that old canard again! You need to get up to date with the directives regulating trade within the EU. The London underground would run into big trouble if it tried to follow the Thai example.

Going back to the OP, this seems to be a poster who (judging from his anti-big government views) likes markets but doesn't understand how markets determine prices. People don't like other Westerners 'bending over' because if enough do this it affects the rest of us.

Edited February 16, 2011 by citizen33

[IanForbes]

Going back to the OP, this seems to be a poster who (judging from his anti-big government views) likes markets but doesn't understand how markets determine prices. People don't like other Westerners 'bending over' because if enough do this it affects the rest of us.

Working from your theory I should slap a few people around occasionally and treat hard working Thais in the service industry like second class citizens, just so you can save a few baht on your Thai meal, and get a hotel room for 1/4 what you would pay in your own country. No, I DON'T like big government or big business, despite the fact that they are necessary. I haven't seen many large corporations who were actually willing to pay workers a fair salary without being forced to. And, there isn't a government in the whole world that couldn't be cut to one fifth (or more) of what is necessary to operate efficiently. In Canada our government is FAR too top heavy and only the few appointed cabinet officials have any authority to do anything. That leaves the other 300 MPs and their staff all whistling in the wind, and getting paid too much for it. From what I've been able to determine, Thailand's government is even worse.

I don't much like whiners or complainers and I DO know how the markets work. Even the strange Thai markets who raise prices when things start going downhill instead of lowering prices to offer some incentive to regain their lost customers.

[Kwasaki]

In Thailand, even after people KNOW you aren't a tourist, we are still subject to racial variant policies at many places. Why be ostriches about something so obvious?

As I read through more on this !! would you think as I do that the point you are trying to make would happen more in tourist areas of Thailand.

I still cannot understand or see that it is a racial point only a money thing.

[transam]

I must ask, how long have you been in LOS ?

Your point about some posting a lot, how many hours do farangs sit in front of the television in the west per day ?. How many hours do retired farangs sit in front of the television in the west per day ?

I don't watch television in LOS except last thing before l sleep, then a film perhaps.

We've wandered a long way off topic here, Transom, but I do understand where you are coming from and I don't disagree with all that you have been saying.

I don't watch television here in Thailand, either. I had the staff in my hotel take it out of my room. Besides my "other" activities, I spend my time either writing my book or popping onto the internet from time to time for a rest break. I learned a long time ago that the less you do the less you WANT to do. And, if you want something done then ask a busy person. A busy person always finds time to do more. A lazy person never has time to do anything. But, that is also a long way off topic on this thead.

+1, cool.

[JSixpack]

In Thailand, even after people KNOW you aren't a tourist, we are still subject to racial variant policies at many places. Why be ostriches about something so obvious?

Well then your experiences are different too mine, let's leave at that shall we.

I don't have any reason at all to feel victimized here in Thailand, doesn't mean I willingly pay to much for something.

Yermanee

Some seem to be professional victims.

Don't see any such here. Only the naïve, unwitting, and self-deluded are the usual victims. Since hardly aware--the very best sort of victims--they would hardly be capable of anything other than rose-tinted observation.

Me, it's been many years since I've been victimized in the racial sense discussed above. I haven't allowed myself to be, as I learned the ropes quickly.

[kropotkin]

I just donated 100 baht to a thai immigration officer......

She did not ask for money.

And maybe my donation was not PC.

But the lady was nice to me, well, let us say that after being ripped off by capt Min Sovuth of the Khmer immigration at Ban Pakat, her (FREE) helpfullness felt like she was giving me "value for money".

Giving a 100 baht tip to a decent thai immigration officer nearly offsets the bad feelings of being robbed of 450 baht by a khmer officer.....

Not to mention the fact that a "helpfull" thai that gave the impression of being an immigration official, tried to rob me of 600 baht.

[IanForbes]

I just donated 100 baht to a thai immigration officer......

She did not ask for money.

And maybe my donation was not PC.

But the lady was nice to me, well, let us say that after being ripped off by capt Min Sovuth of the Khmer immigration at Ban Pakat, her (FREE) helpfullness felt like she was giving me "value for money".

Giving a 100 baht tip to a decent thai immigration officer nearly offsets the bad feelings of being robbed of 450 baht by a khmer officer.....

Not to mention the fact that a "helpfull" thai that gave the impression of being an immigration official, tried to rob me of 600 baht.

Good for you, kropotkin. The unexpected "gift" to the immigration women tells her how much you valued her advice and help. Congrats, sir. :jap:

[robblok]

If you treat people decent then you usually get treated decent back (ok does not always work) But i try to be nice to people unless i feel they are ripping me off. Just had a pair of complete strangers (Dutch) that i took with me on a fishing trip lend them my rods and so on. I am usually a pretty nice guy unless i get the feeling i am ripped off or taken advantage off.

[gregb]

But you appear to have totally lost the plot today.

"Value For Your Money" that is the plot of today on ThaiVisaDotCom.

Please make your point then pjclark1 about "Value For Your Money".

This has absolutely nothing to do with "value for money". Ian lost the plot, because he is completely wrong here. This is simply about whether you consider yourself an outsider, as Ian clearly does, or one of the locals, which I do. It goes back to a very, very deep seated clan/tribal mentality. You are either part of the tribe, in which case you are treated one way, or you are an outsider, in which case you are treated with a different set of rules. This has been happening for millennia.

The problem is, in a democracy and a modern belief in multiculturalism, this type of clan thinking is offensive. Namely because people do not know how to determine who should be part of the clan, and who should not. Ian's contention that it is fine for him because he is an outsider, does not sit well with those of us who live here, have families, pay large amounts of taxes in Thailand, and feel we are a part of the clan.

And his implication that we are somehow wrong for demanding to be treated as one of the clan is infuriating. He is a tourist. Fine. There is nothing wrong with that. I am not a tourist, and I don't appreciate being marginalized because of the color of my skin.

What the Thais do is wrong, wrong, wrong! If Ian wants to pay more, give them a tip! But don't tell me it is OK that they assume everyone with white skin should give them a tip. That assumption is offensive in the extreme. There are valid reasons for supporting multi tiered pricing when you want to promote something to locals. This happens when local residents, independent of their skin color, citizenship, or religion, are given preferred rates at an establishment. This is done either because they are likely to be repeat customers, or because they pay the taxes that fund the establishment. That, however, is not what Thais do. They want more from me simply because I am white. I am a local. I deserve to be treated like one. Period.

That is the essence of the argument.

[IanForbes]

This has absolutely nothing to do with "value for money". Ian lost the plot, because he is completely wrong here. This is simply about whether you consider yourself an outsider, as Ian clearly does, or one of the locals, which I do. It goes back to a very, very deep seated clan/tribal mentality. You are either part of the tribe, in which case you are treated one way, or you are an outsider, in which case you are treated with a different set of rules. This has been happening for millennia.

The problem is, in a democracy and a modern belief in multiculturalism, this type of clan thinking is offensive. Namely because people do not know how to determine who should be part of the clan, and who should not. Ian's contention that it is fine for him because he is an outsider, does not sit well with those of us who live here, have families, pay large amounts of taxes in Thailand, and feel we are a part of the clan.

And his implication that we are somehow wrong for demanding to be treated as one of the clan is infuriating. He is a tourist. Fine. There is nothing wrong with that. I am not a tourist, and I don't appreciate being marginalized because of the color of my skin.

What the Thais do is wrong, wrong, wrong! If Ian wants to pay more, give them a tip! But don't tell me it is OK that they assume everyone with white skin should give them a tip. That assumption is offensive in the extreme. There are valid reasons for supporting multi tiered pricing when you want to promote something to locals. This happens when local residents, independent of their skin color, citizenship, or religion, are given preferred rates at an establishment. This is done either because they are likely to be repeat customers, or because they pay the taxes that fund the establishment. That, however, is not what Thais do. They want more from me simply because I am white. I am a local. I deserve to be treated like one. Period.

That is the essence of the argument.

I couldn't give a rat's ass what you do. I only know what I do and get value for. You knew before you ever came to Thailand the rules, customs and laws here. It was YOUR choice to live here with all the warts and restrictions. Staying here as a foreigner is not going to change the culture here in Thailand one bit. You are NEVER going to be Thai no matter how many taxes you pay. You can beat your wife and children and treat Thais like they are animals and it wouldn't affect me one bit...just as me giving a tip (large or small) to a Thai who works hard isn't going to affect you.

What Thais do is right, right, right. It's THEIR country and they can run it anyway they see fit... even if it doesn't make sense to you or I. I think it is silly for Thais to raise their prices when business takes a down turn, but that isn't my problem. I just go elsewhere. However, I'll also help some hard working Thai who works a 10 hour shift for 200 baht. But if they beg in the street, or are lazy, then I won't give them one satang.

What a sad, miserable life you must lead. I feel sorry for you.

[gregb]

What a sad, miserable life you must lead. I feel sorry for you.

Please Ian, save your pity for someone who cares.

I am quite happy with my life here, and I understand the advantages and disadvantages of having a family and living in Thailand. I will continue to try and educate wherever I can. I feel sorry for you that you can not understand that, and feel the need to disparage those of us who believe your tone and the manner in which you raised this topic was offensive.

If you can't see this is more than simply a "value for money" proposition, then it is you who needs pity, not I.

[mca]

For me ( on the rare occasion when I encounter over-pricing ) it's not the " overcharge the foreigner for reason a) or c) " that mildly offends or even amuses me if it's that blatant. It's the fact that the person doing so thinks they're really smart, is taking me for some sort of mug and thinks it'll go unnoticed. And I certainly aren't a mug.

A couple of weeks ago I'd picked my daughter up from school and stopped at a pick up parked at the side of the road selling pineapples. The bloke also had a few sliced ones in bags on ice. Now I know the small bags are 10 baht and the large ones are 20 baht. That's written in stone round my way. I greeted the guy, picked a small bag up and asked the price. " 50 baht " came the reply. I gave a small laugh, turned and got back in my car.

I suppose the thing that slightly tickled my funny bone was despite driving a Thai registered vehicle, being fairly out in the boonies, speaking Thai and having what is obviously my Thai-Western daughter in her school uniform sitting in the car probably indicating that I didn't get off the boat that morning and was simply a dad picking his kid up from school the vendor was still dumb enough to try it on.

[jazzbo]

Hello Ian -- When I was in grade-school one of the favorite pranks was to walk up to another guy and pat them on the back while surreptitiously placing a 'Kick Me Hard' sign on their back ... I never recall anyone placing such a sign on their back all by themselves.

Some people like to go through life as in Aesop's 'Grasshopper and the Ant' fable with everyone but themselves frittering away in the face of the coming doom scenario ...

Edited February 18, 2011 by jazzbo

[dave2]

mca.

re ... that mildly offends or even amuses me if it's that blatant. It's the fact that the person doing so thinks they're really smart, is taking me for some sort of mug and thinks it'll go unnoticed

you mean like this ?

dave2 .... running to take cover ..... iiiinnncoming : )

[IanForbes]

What a sad, miserable life you must lead. I feel sorry for you.

Please Ian, save your pity for someone who cares.

I am quite happy with my life here, and I understand the advantages and disadvantages of having a family and living in Thailand. I will continue to try and educate wherever I can. I feel sorry for you that you can not understand that, and feel the need to disparage those of us who believe your tone and the manner in which you raised this topic was offensive.

If you can't see this is more than simply a "value for money" proposition, then it is you who needs pity, not I.

I just reread my original post to see what you find so offensive. I fail to find anything offensive, other than it doesn't bother ME to pay more to visit a National Park than it does a native Thai person. How many times does someone actually visit a Thai National Park in a year... two or three times maybe? That would mean an added 1000 baht to your yearly budget. Anyone who can't afford an extra1000 baht a year on holidays needs to look for other places to live.

Do you actually believe that my helping a few hard working Thais with a little charity is going to affect what you have to pay for things? I think you just make assumptions about people and jump to false conclusions. I see that a lot on this forum. Do you actually think that me being happy to pay some hard working Thai the princely sum of 300 baht a day is going to affect you who only wants to pay the going rate of 200 baht a day?

Is me giving some cook at a Thai diner an extra 100 baht going to affect you who won't tip at all? I highly doubt it. And, if my charity meant the raising of the whole country's average wages then so be it. Maybe hard working Thais actually DESERVE a lot more than they are making. In Japan after the Second World War that country produced crappy goods and charged very little for it. We called it "Jap crap". The businessmen also paid low wages to hard working staff. That all changed and they started increasing wages as well as marketing good quality merchandise. The result was that Japan blossomed into a world power again. Thailand could do the same, but with the present management they are unlikely to do so. Of course, if they did then that would also mean that the expats here living on very little wouldn't get all that inexpensive service.

My son, who does the same as me in Canada, gets all sorts of appreciation back, and he picks up extra business because of it. His business is growing while others in the same business are stagnating.

[Kwasaki]

Hello Ian

Some people like to go through life as in Aesop's 'Grasshopper and the Ant' fable with everyone but themselves frittering away in the face of the coming doom scenario ...

Yeah !! and there are people here not Thai who think they are not outsiders. :lol:

[biplanebluey]

<FONT size=4 face="Comic Sans MS">Sorry Ian but that's a load of crap----don't know how long you have been here but when the rose tint wears off those glasses you will realise that you will be getting even better value for money if you pay the same as a Thai. Perhaps you also do not know that showing a Thai driving licence gets you those same prices----or are you telling me you are happy to walk away from that entry gate rather than show you are entitled to something---geeees man!!!</FONT>

[bonobo]

This evening i wanted to take a taxi near Robinson.

Here in chanthaburi,taxis do not have meters.

My favourite taxi driver was not there, nor were the ones that i know / know me.

Regular fare is 40 baht, i tip 10 baht (that is 25%), making it 50 baht.

Now some jerk asked 100, i said no thank you, i can walk, next he went down to 50,i kept smiling.

AND I WALKED.

My hero! (I walk a lot.)

And another story....

We always phone that same trusted taxi driver when we need transport.

He is the one that told us all the rates inside and outside chanthaburi.

One sundaynight we phoned him - he said he did not work on sundays, but would get us a friend taxidriver ( that is what he always does when he cannot drive us)

Next he rings us back - no one available he says, but i am visiting family not far from you, i will pick you up.

Taxi driver shows up, in his regular car, not taxi, with his wife and 2 kids.

Brings us home.

Next refuses to be paid, because " i am not working today" he says.

The extremes of thailand !

And this is the sort of driver who you bend over backwards to give all your business. Good service begats customer loyalty.

[Thailaw]

The OP has a very different culture than many of us. The way I was raised, if Joe Blow gets a rice plate for a dollar and I get the same plate for two dollars because the server thought someone of my race should pay double, I would be a pathetic PATSY to accept that and hopelessly deluded to celebrate being reamed. Yes, we are in Thailand, and complaining is pointless. But avoiding such places when you discover them in favor of places not employing racist pricing is a power we DO have. To accept it with a smile, well, doesn't that just encourage them? Believe it or not, not all places do that.

What is criticized as "racial bias" is simply price discrimination practiced everywhere in the world to increase profits of the seller without regard or consideration of racial or gender bias. Price discrimination is the practice of charging different persons different prices for the same goods or services. In the US, price discrimination is illegal under the Sherman Antitrust Act. 15 U.S.C. §2, the Clayton Act, 15 U.S.C. §13, and by the Robinson-Patman Act, 15 U.S.C. §§13-13(, 21(a), when engaged in for the purpose of lessening competition, such as tying the lower prices to the purchase of other goods or services. But, merely charging different prices to different customers is not illegal, when there is no intent to harm competitors. And the reality is that it goes on continuously, everywhere.

In pure price discrimination, the seller will charge each customer the maximum price that he or she is willing to pay. In more common forms of price discrimination, the seller places customers in groups based on certain attributes that the seller believes reflect a higher willingness and/or ability to pay for the seller's product and charges each group so identified a different price.

Price discrimination allows the seller to earn higher profits than standard pricing because it allows firms to capture every last dollar of revenue available from each of its customers. Additionally, the seller in a market where this type of discrimination is practiced must be capable of differentiating between consumer classes, and preventing sales between the customer classes. Hence, services are frequently seen as the markets where price discrimination is most prevalent. For example, movie theaters usually charge three different prices for a show. The prices target various age groups, including youth, adults and seniors. The prices differ with the expected income of each age bracket, with the highest price charged going to the "normal" adult population. Lawyers typically charge businesses more for the same service than they charge individuals because businesses are preceived to be less price sensitive.

In price discrimination, price varies by attributes such as location or by characteristics of the customer segment, or in the most extreme case, by an individual customer's identity; where the attribute in question is used as a proxy for ability/willingness to pay. Thus, the seller sets a lower price for that consumer because the student or senior has a more price sensitivity (due to lower income). The supplier is capable of capturing more sales revenue and profit than would be possible without price discrimination.

But buyers do not advertise their willingness or ability to pay no one comes to the store with a sign stuck on their forehead saying "charge me more, I'll pay it". Sellers look for ways to "identify" higher income or higher demand buyers. Airlines, for example, use several different types of price discrimination, such as requiring advance purchase and/or Saturday stays for cheaper tickets, because such restrictions have the effect of excluding business travelers from purchasing the cheaper ticlets, who typically travel during the work-week and arrange trips on shorter notice. In Thailand, Tourists and foreigners generally have a higher income than local Thais (now there's a surprise!!) and pricing the two groups differently will tend to increase sales revenues and profits. It is discrimination on race? Absolutely not. It is discrimination on income and ability to pay, which is "measured" by ethnicity, in the same way that it can be measured by age or status as a student or requiring a Saturday night stay.

Many years ago, in the US, I had a flat tire in my old Nissan. I took it to the local garage and was charged $2.50 to plug the hole. By sheer coincidence, my ex-wife had a flat in her late model Mercedes the following week. I took the tire to the same shop, and was charged $5.00 for the same repair. When I told the mechanic I had been charged $2.50 for the same repair last week, he immediately lowered the price. Was this discrimination based on my race or gender? Was I an "insider" last week and an "outsider" now? Of course not. Drivers of new Mercedes are seen by sellers as having more income and a higher ability to pay than drivers of old Nissans, and are charged accordingly. And the Thai driver of a new Mercedes will in many instances be charged more than another Thai driving a 20 year old Toyota Corolla does that make him an "outsider"? I always try to get a price for a home repair before the worker sees my house so that my house cannot be factored into my ability to pay easier said than done.

You can try to make this into a political/social issue, but the reality is it is not. It is pure economics, as it is practiced everywhere in the world (not that every seller of every product can engage in price discrimination). Ian's exactly right. Grow up and get used to it, and stop looking for a villainous motive behind every act that you dislike. I don't like price discrimination either, but I am not offended by it.

And to Gregb, the reality is that, as a farang, you are not and never will be an "insider" in Thai society get used to that also. But that is an entirely different issue, and has nothing to do with your being perceived by sellers as having the capability (i.e., income) to pay more than a Thai.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Thailaw

[bonobo]

I don't mind the extra charge for parks. Tax dollars go into running those parks, and as a tourist, paying more equalizes money-for-use. And now, as a Thai resident who pays Thai taxes, I pay the same as a Thai citizen.

But the greedy taxi drivers who try and charge exorbitant prices to foreigners, or stores personnel who try to charge more do tick me off, and I refuse to give them my custom.

[bunta71]

Did I really spell fleece wrong?

A lot of guys come here because they can get away with things that they can't get away with back home. Then when the locals try to get away with something, they get all self-righteous. This is the wild west son, and the freedom to cheat is one of the attractions, but that freedom applies to the locals too.

In Hawaii we flees the Haole and Japanese tourists, every chance we get. Locals get a Kamaaina rate for simply being local. National Parks in the US also have a 'special' rate for locals. Why do we do it? Because we can. Very basic business practice of charging what the market will bare. If you don't like it don't pay, but don't whine about it so much.

This shows why Hawaii has been hurting tourist wise for so many years. The locals treat the tourists like scum in Hawaii. I lived there three years. People can go to Mexico for a week for the same costs of a day in Hawaii and are doing it. Keep on biting the hand that feeds you.

[Lancelot]

Ian,

If your happy that way then so be it. I hate paying more for the same service just because I am a foreigner. I have been brought up in a way that i consider it wrong. Sure i can afford it but that is not the point.

But your happy with it that is ok. I just avoid those places if i can.

I agree!

I think a big difference is whether you consider yourself a tourist or a long term resident. As a toursit I never objected to paying the higher farang price; however, as a resident I do mind. Its like no matter how much I try to fit in, I'm never accepted. Having said that, I've had good luck getting the local price with a Thai drivers license. I eat at many small Thai restaurants and they 95% of the time I get the local price. If they over charge me, I pay up-and never go back.

I like Robs post and agree that its the OPs right to spend his money as he sees fit. I also doubt that Thais living/working abroad would be happy to be charged higher prices, simply because of their face...

Live and let live and to each his own

[kropotkin]

The OP has a very different culture than many of us. The way I was raised, if Joe Blow gets a rice plate for a dollar and I get the same plate for two dollars because the server thought someone of my race should pay double, I would be a pathetic PATSY to accept that and hopelessly deluded to celebrate being reamed. Yes, we are in Thailand, and complaining is pointless. But avoiding such places when you discover them in favor of places not employing racist pricing is a power we DO have. To accept it with a smile, well, doesn't that just encourage them? Believe it or not, not all places do that.

What is criticized as "racial bias" is simply price discrimination practiced everywhere in the world to increase profits of the seller without regard or consideration of racial or gender bias. Price discrimination is the practice of charging different persons different prices for the same goods or services. In the US, price discrimination is illegal under the Sherman Antitrust Act. 15 U.S.C. §2, the Clayton Act, 15 U.S.C. §13, and by the Robinson-Patman Act, 15 U.S.C. §§13-13(, 21(a), when engaged in for the purpose of lessening competition, such as tying the lower prices to the purchase of other goods or services. But, merely charging different prices to different customers is not illegal, when there is no intent to harm competitors. And the reality is that it goes on continuously, everywhere.

In pure price discrimination, the seller will charge each customer the maximum price that he or she is willing to pay. In more common forms of price discrimination, the seller places customers in groups based on certain attributes that the seller believes reflect a higher willingness and/or ability to pay for the seller's product and charges each group so identified a different price.

Price discrimination allows the seller to earn higher profits than standard pricing because it allows firms to capture every last dollar of revenue available from each of its customers. Additionally, the seller in a market where this type of discrimination is practiced must be capable of differentiating between consumer classes, and preventing sales between the customer classes. Hence, services are frequently seen as the markets where price discrimination is most prevalent. For example, movie theaters usually charge three different prices for a show. The prices target various age groups, including youth, adults and seniors. The prices differ with the expected income of each age bracket, with the highest price charged going to the "normal" adult population. Lawyers typically charge businesses more for the same service than they charge individuals because businesses are preceived to be less price sensitive.

In price discrimination, price varies by attributes such as location or by characteristics of the customer segment, or in the most extreme case, by an individual customer's identity; where the attribute in question is used as a proxy for ability/willingness to pay. Thus, the seller sets a lower price for that consumer because the student or senior has a more price sensitivity (due to lower income). The supplier is capable of capturing more sales revenue and profit than would be possible without price discrimination.

But buyers do not advertise their willingness or ability to pay – no one comes to the store with a sign stuck on their forehead saying "charge me more, I'll pay it". Sellers look for ways to "identify" higher income or higher demand buyers. Airlines, for example, use several different types of price discrimination, such as requiring advance purchase and/or Saturday stays for cheaper tickets, because such restrictions have the effect of excluding business travelers from purchasing the cheaper ticlets, who typically travel during the work-week and arrange trips on shorter notice. In Thailand, Tourists and foreigners generally have a higher income than local Thais (now there's a surprise!!) and pricing the two groups differently will tend to increase sales revenues and profits. It is discrimination on race? Absolutely not. It is discrimination on income and ability to pay, which is "measured" by ethnicity, in the same way that it can be measured by age or status as a student or requiring a Saturday night stay.

Many years ago, in the US, I had a flat tire in my old Nissan. I took it to the local garage and was charged $2.50 to plug the hole. By sheer coincidence, my ex-wife had a flat in her late model Mercedes the following week. I took the tire to the same shop, and was charged $5.00 for the same repair. When I told the mechanic I had been charged $2.50 for the same repair last week, he immediately lowered the price. Was this discrimination based on my race or gender? Was I an "insider" last week and an "outsider" now? Of course not. Drivers of new Mercedes are seen by sellers as having more income and a higher ability to pay than drivers of old Nissans, and are charged accordingly. And the Thai driver of a new Mercedes will in many instances be charged more than another Thai driving a 20 year old Toyota Corolla – does that make him an "outsider"? I always try to get a price for a home repair before the worker sees my house so that my house cannot be factored into my ability to pay – easier said than done.

You can try to make this into a political/social issue, but the reality is it is not. It is pure economics, as it is practiced everywhere in the world (not that every seller of every product can engage in price discrimination). Ian's exactly right. Grow up and get used to it, and stop looking for a villainous motive behind every act that you dislike. I don't like price discrimination either, but I am not offended by it.

And to Gregb, the reality is that, as a farang, you are not and never will be an "insider" in Thai society – get used to that also. But that is an entirely different issue, and has nothing to do with your being perceived by sellers as having the capability (i.e., income) to pay more than a Thai.

As an ex macro economics professor, i have to agree 100% with you.

As far as economics are concerned.

But what about the moral side?

You go to a hospital, and will be charged more or less on the basis of the pain that you suffer?

You go to a bar, and will be charged more or less, depending on how thursty you are?

And before you ask, no, i did not teach economics in Havana.