Value For Your Money

[IanForbes]

In the two years I've been on thaivisa I've seen hundreds of topics complaining about double standards and over pricing. I hear complaints all the time about women running off with some poor sods money that he gave to her willingly. There is a current topic on the price of hamburgers in airports and it has gone on for 10 pages. I join in with the fun and enjoy debating, but I still think it comes down to value for your money.

If I'm happy paying a Thai cafe 40 baht for a meal that Thais pay 25 baht for then it should be nobody's concern but my own. I can afford a little "extra" and don't mind showing my appreciation to the staff for what I find so inexpensive by western standards. Most Thais work long days for a pittance, and what small amount I give extra helps them and doesn't affect me at all. I'd much prefer just handing some hard worker an extra 100 baht than give it to a begger in the street.

The same is true for short or long term relationships. If I have had an enjoyable time for what I've spent then that should be all that counts. If I want to go to a National Park occsionally, then what I pay extra (being a farang) doesn't matter to me. I've recieved value for MY money and that is all that counts. Who cares how much a Thai has to pay? Sure there are double standards, but I see double standards practised every day on thaivisa. Does it bother me? Maybe a bit, but what I receive for nothing is not something I'm going to worry about.

I willingly give money away all the time and I'm happy doing it because I enjoy the satisfaction of helping others who need it more than me. Does that make me a "good guy"? Not in the least. I do because I enjoy it, and not for what others think. But, I let people know that I'm not an ATM machine. There is a limit to what I can afford and will give. It's made life so much more pleasant for me and I've certainly received value for my money spent.

However, I can contrast that with banks and government taxes. I hate giving a bank one satang extra. They ALREADY over charge for everything. The same with every govenment in every country. I HATE seeing my tax money wasted on things that are actually a detriment to the country.

[JohnnyFeelIt]

If your looking for some bargins, check this out.. http://www.ensogo.com/

[robblok]

Ian,

If your happy that way then so be it. I hate paying more for the same service just because I am a foreigner. I have been brought up in a way that i consider it wrong. Sure i can afford it but that is not the point.

But your happy with it that is ok. I just avoid those places if i can.

[bkkjames]

If your looking for some bargins, check this out.. http://www.ensogo.com/

www.thaicitydeals.com

[JohnnyFeelIt]

If your looking for some bargins, check this out.. http://www.ensogo.com/

www.thaicitydeals.com

lol.. I've seen some copycat websites over the years, but that has to rank #1 !

Are the 2 actually affiliated? I'm no legal expert, but if there not, surely there setting themselves up for a lawsuit?

Edited February 14, 2011 by JohnnyFeelIt

[bkkjames]

If your looking for some bargins, check this out.. http://www.ensogo.com/

www.thaicitydeals.com

lol.. I've seen some copycat websites over the years, but that has to rank #1 !

Are the 2 actually affiliated? I'm no legal expert, but if there not, surely there setting themselves up for a lawsuit?

why would they be mate, there are about 20 sites out there like this here in TH, including a couple sponsors on this forum I believe - tiktokthai and bonbondeals.

anyways back to Ian's point - the burger thread is going on and on. I don't know if its sneaky per say, some of the language I have seen written in Engrish at airports around the world. I guess in the end it does get me a little bit. Why not just say, show your thai passport and get a discount or something?

Edited February 14, 2011 by bkkjames

[JohnnyFeelIt]

Ahh, sorry. I heard Tiktok mentioned a few times, but never bothered to look @ the site.

Ensogo,

TikTokThai,

ThaiCityDeals

There the big 3 worth keeping an eye on if I had to pick 3?

[Semper]

Ian, are we having a bad day ?

[Jingthing]

The OP has a very different culture than many of us. The way I was raised, if Joe Blow gets a rice plate for a dollar and I get the same plate for two dollars because the server thought someone of my race should pay double, I would be a pathetic PATSY to accept that and hopelessly deluded to celebrate being reamed. Yes, we are in Thailand, and complaining is pointless. But avoiding such places when you discover them in favor of places not employing racist pricing is a power we DO have. To accept it with a smile, well, doesn't that just encourage them? Believe it or not, not all places do that.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

I suspect that it is Thai restaurant owners who have posted pictures of Ian all over Chiang Mai as they are so appreciative of his paying double for Thai food and urging other farangs to do the same. .

Edited February 14, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Semper]

I suspect that it is Thai restaurant owners who have posted pictures on Ian all over Chiang Mai as they are so appreciative of his paying double for Thai food and urging other farangs to do the same. .

[balhamred]

i understand that is fine for you to pay a little extra if you have the money. however, if you're suggesting that all farangs should not mind paying extra because we can afford it, then you are making the same generalisations and prejudices as the general thai population. personally, i can not afford it, having been working for thai wages i expect to pay thai prices. i was legally living and working in thailand, so being assumed to be rich and treated differently because of the colour of my skin and birthplace, is fairly insulting. i went to a national park yesterday but since the price was 10x more for farangs i had to abandon my plans at the gate.

[Jingthing]

I think the OP is a part time expat. So perhaps his time here feels more like a vacation than for residents. That isn't good or bad but it might change your point of view.

[hanuman1]

The OP has a very different culture than many of us. The way I was raised, if Joe Blow gets a rice plate for a dollar and I get the same plate for two dollars because the server thought someone of my race should pay double, I would be a pathetic PATSY to accept that and hopelessly deluded to celebrate being reamed. Yes, we are in Thailand, and complaining is pointless. But avoiding such places when you discover them in favor of places not employing racist pricing is a power we DO have. To accept it with a smile, well, doesn't that just encourage them? Believe it or not, not all places do that.

Price differentiation is an accepted phenomenon throughout the world. If you want to buy an underground train ticket in London, it costs more if you buy it before 9:30am (9:00? can't remember now) than after. No one complains. You may say that's all very well, but to differentiate the price along racial lines to get access to national parks is out of order. Indeed it would be, but this isn't discrimination along racial lines. Farangs who can show valid Thai drivers licenses or residency papers pay the lower price.

So in the case of access to national parks, it is price differentiation based along bureaucratic lines. Very common in most countries. It's no more out of order than having to pay more tax for a higher income.

Edited February 14, 2011 by hanuman1

[kropotkin]

This evening i wanted to take a taxi near Robinson.

Here in chanthaburi,taxis do not have meters.

My favourite taxi driver was not there, nor were the ones that i know / know me.

Regular fare is 40 baht, i tip 10 baht (that is 25%), making it 50 baht.

Now some jerk asked 100, i said no thank you, i can walk, next he went down to 50,i kept smiling.

AND I WALKED.

[Jingthing]

This evening i wanted to take a taxi near Robinson.

Here in chanthaburi,taxis do not have meters.

My favourite taxi driver was not there, nor were the ones that i know / know me.

Regular fare is 40 baht, i tip 10 baht (that is 25%), making it 50 baht.

Now some jerk asked 100, i said no thank you, i can walk, next he went down to 50,i kept smiling.

AND I WALKED.

My hero! (I walk a lot.)

[kropotkin]

This evening i wanted to take a taxi near Robinson.

Here in chanthaburi,taxis do not have meters.

My favourite taxi driver was not there, nor were the ones that i know / know me.

Regular fare is 40 baht, i tip 10 baht (that is 25%), making it 50 baht.

Now some jerk asked 100, i said no thank you, i can walk, next he went down to 50,i kept smiling.

AND I WALKED.

My hero! (I walk a lot.)

And another story....

We always phone that same trusted taxi driver when we need transport.

He is the one that told us all the rates inside and outside chanthaburi.

One sundaynight we phoned him - he said he did not work on sundays, but would get us a friend taxidriver ( that is what he always does when he cannot drive us)

Next he rings us back - no one available he says, but i am visiting family not far from you, i will pick you up.

Taxi driver shows up, in his regular car, not taxi, with his wife and 2 kids.

Brings us home.

Next refuses to be paid, because " i am not working today" he says.

The extremes of thailand !

[cobra]

Agree whole heartedly with op,

Yes it's a double standard but one based on perceived status,

I don't take it personally and at the end of the day it's still just chump change,

no different then the odd coinage going into the ash tray for the maid.

If someone's standard of living is slightly increased because of it, all the better.

I have no problem paying the extra pittance, but the cheap charlies and under funded pensioners will always rationize what a hardship this is on them.

Edited February 14, 2011 by cobra

[Jingthing]

Because maybe it is a hardship. Like you care.

Next ...

[cobra]

Because maybe it is a hardship. Like you care.

Next ...

Speaking of the quintesential cheap charlie, ....

True, I could care less about you.

[Jingthing]

I've been called worse things. Today.

Don't you think it's a little too "Thai-ier than thou^TM" to project sanctimonious concern for poor Thai people (when a whole bunch of them are very wealthy) so they all deserve the Thai "discount" coupled with an attitude that all whities can always afford to pay double as they're all rich, natch?

Edited February 14, 2011 by Jingthing

[kropotkin]

Agree whole heartedly with op,

Yes it's a double standard but one based on perceived status,

I don't take it personally and at the end of the day it's still just chump change,

no different then the odd coinage going into the ash tray for the maid.

If someone's standard of living is slightly increased because of it, all the better.

I have no problem paying the extra pittance, but the cheap charlies and under funded pensioners will always rationize what a hardship this is on them.

NO!

This cheap charlie gives a tip to fair people.

This cheap charlie does not give a satang to cheaters.

Do you think it is good to give extra money to the con artists? To the ones that betray thai culture? You could give extra money to the honest people, to the real thais....... But that would require an effort of you.

I see absolutely no reason to "increase the living standard" of con artists.

You help them to bring thai culture down! Shame on you!

[SantiSuk]

May I join your list of heroes Jingthing? The vendor of the rai we built our house on has another rai adjacent which I did not think to buy when we originally bought the building plot. A year or so later we had an on and off negotiation over the price of the adjacent plot. We ended up close but he said he wanted 5,000 more 'because I was a falang'. I threw my toys out of the pram and said under no circumstances would I ever buy the land from such a stupid racist (to my wife, not to him). My wife said - let my mum buy it at 5,000 less and she can sell it to us. I said - 'no, it's theprinciple'. The next day the family bless em started to build the wall around our rai as if to emphasise our stand.

Pity really, we could have made a lovely job out of the extra rai and I now feel foolish having been so pig-headed . What the hell was 5,000 baht more on top of 300,000? Silly boy - sometimes I wish I was pragmatic not principled.

[kropotkin]

May I join your list of heroes Jingthing? The vendor of the rai we built our house on has another rai adjacent which I did not think to buy when we originally bought the building plot. A year or so later we had an on and off negotiation over the price of the adjacent plot. We ended up close but he said he wanted 5,000 more 'because I was a falang'. I threw my toys out of the pram and said under no circumstances would I ever buy the land from such a stupid racist (to my wife, not to him). My wife said - let my mum buy it at 5,000 less and she can sell it to us. I said - 'no, it's theprinciple'. The next day the family bless em started to build the wall around our rai as if to emphasise our stand.

Pity really, we could have made a lovely job out of the extra rai and I now feel foolish having been so pig-headed . What the hell was 5,000 baht more on top of 300,000? Silly boy - sometimes I wish I was pragmatic not principled.

You did the right thing.

But would it not have been great to have the family negotiate an even lower price (on your behalf), and then to throw that into the face of that racist ignorant pig?

[IanForbes]

This evening i wanted to take a taxi near Robinson.

Here in chanthaburi,taxis do not have meters.

My favourite taxi driver was not there, nor were the ones that i know / know me.

Regular fare is 40 baht, i tip 10 baht (that is 25%), making it 50 baht.

Now some jerk asked 100, i said no thank you, i can walk, next he went down to 50,i kept smiling.

AND I WALKED.

I do the same. There IS a difference between someone trying to over charge you and someone giving value for your money. I expect to pay a certain amount for most services and items in Thailand. I'll dicker the price down a bit just because it's the thing to do, but I DO have an idea of what something costs. That is different from what I am talking about. I tip VERY generously to someone who only asks a little and doesn't EXPECT a tip. I have often given some hard working Thai a 100 baht tip for a 50 baht meal or some other service. I won't tip one baht if I think someone is trying to over charge me. And, like you I'll happily walk rather than pay some tuk-tuk driver 100 baht for a half kilometer trip. But, if a tuk-tuk driver gives me some good advice and takes me a fair distance then I'll tip him 100 baht for a 50 baht trip. Not all tuk tuk drivers are the scamming crooks like the ones in Phuket. The ones in Chiang Mai are mostly hard workers living on a pittance. They often don't even cover their fuel charge and rental.

But, it still comes down to value for my money. I personally get value from my money by giving it away to people who need it more than me and aren't just sitting on their butt waiting for handouts. I seldom give beggers anything and I don't buy flowers from the peddlers at night. That is because they train their childern into a life of begging and keep the children from going to school.

[Darrel]

Price differentiation is an accepted phenomenon throughout the world. If you want to buy an underground train ticket in London, it costs more if you buy it before 9:30am (9:00? can't remember now) than after. No one complains.

So in the case of access to national parks, it is price differentiation based along bureaucratic lines. Very common in most countries. It's no more out of order than having to pay more tax for a higher income.

What nonsense. Yes, you can get a cheaper ticket after 9:30 but so can everyone simply by buying it after 9:30. There is no discrimination.

The national parks thing is a blatant rip-off because anyone deemed to be non-resident is charged extra for no valid reason at all. Even the poorest visitor will pay more than a billionaire resident and there can be no possible justification for this. It is wrong, purely and simply.

The income tax comparison is also totally erroneous. Every gets charged the same sliding scale for tax and you pay according to what you earn. There arent two different scales depending on who you are. Your problem is that you fail to comprehend the difference between buying 1kg or 100kg of something according to how much you want, and being charged 50B per kilo or 500B per kilo because of who you are. The former is normal the latter is not.

[Darrel]

If I'm happy paying a Thai cafe 40 baht for a meal that Thais pay 25 baht for then it should be nobody's concern but my own.

Quite right. I certainly dont care at all about you being happy about being overcharged. That's your problem and you are welcome to it. What bothers me is me being overcharged and I wont stand for it at all.

There is only one fair system for charging and that is a set price for anyone buying the same thing from the same place. Anything else is dishonest. Those who want to pay more for something can just go to another shop/supplier who does charge more, but who charges more to everyone.

If I think I am being charged extra then I vote with my feet, normally making it very clear why I am doing so. And I would do this regardless of the sum involved be it 1000B or 1B. There are plenty of places that dont charge any extra and I just frequent those instead. In fact over the last 20 - 30 years I have noticed that this particular problem seems to have decreased.

[villagefarang]

A lot of guys come here because they can get away with things that they can’t get away with back home. Then when the locals try to get away with something, they get all self-righteous. This is the wild west son, and the freedom to cheat is one of the attractions, but that freedom applies to the locals too.

In Hawaii we flees the Haole and Japanese tourists, every chance we get. Locals get a Kamaaina rate for simply being local. National Parks in the US also have a 'special' rate for locals. Why do we do it? Because we can. Very basic business practice of charging what the market will bare. If you don’t like it don’t pay, but don’t whine about it so much.

[pjclark1]

"If I'm happy paying a Thai cafe 40 baht for a meal that Thais pay 25 baht for then it should be nobody's concern but my own. I can afford a little "extra" and don't mind showing my appreciation to the staff for what I find so inexpensive by western standards. Most Thais work long days for a pittance, and what small amount I give extra helps them and doesn't affect me at all. I'd much prefer just handing some hard worker an extra 100 baht than give it to a begger in the street."

Sorry Ian, but I was brought up to believe racism was wrong.

The dual pricing in Thailand is racist and therefore wrong. Thais make no effort to discover what your actual nationality or status in society is, the pricing is purely judged on the colour of you skin.

Try putting up a sign in the UK or any other country in the western world

"Blacks pay double"

And see what it gets you.

You want to pay more, fine give them a big tip, but don't try to excuse blatant racism.

@villagefarang

Discounts for locals are not a problem, ask for an ID to show if you are local or not and no problem. Assume anyone with a white face is not local and everyone with a brown face is a local, and I have a problem with a racist.

Edited February 15, 2011 by pjclark1

[Tonto21]

The OP has a very different culture than many of us. The way I was raised, if Joe Blow gets a rice plate for a dollar and I get the same plate for two dollars because the server thought someone of my race should pay double, I would be a pathetic PATSY to accept that and hopelessly deluded to celebrate being reamed. Yes, we are in Thailand, and complaining is pointless. But avoiding such places when you discover them in favor of places not employing racist pricing is a power we DO have. To accept it with a smile, well, doesn't that just encourage them? Believe it or not, not all places do that.

Have to agree with you Jingthing, I actively avoid places that want me to pay more than the going price for something, why should I, just because I can afford it? I try and avoid paying more than a local for the same service.

It’s not about the money, as I will regularly give a bigger tip for “Thai price” and good service than if they would over charge me anyway.

I think you’re going about it all wrong Ian, I feel what your saying is akin to allowing a poor neighbor to regularly steel small amounts because you have more than him! How can you ever expect to achieve a mutual respect when you allow someone too arbitrarily decide to charge you more based on the color of your skin and perceived wealth?