Red Shirts Promise Rally Of 'Unprecedented Numbers'

[mca]

unprecedented in thai would be a redneck (er,shirt) actually holding a job and not sitting around drinking whiskey while his wife and preteen kids go out and cut sugar and harvest rice.

A redneck ( er, shirt ) is almost always someone (in every country) who, for some bizzare reason, is angry that he/she is "earning" 6,000 baht per month.

Contradicting yourself there.

[heybruce]

Do you also agree the Yellowshirts should be forced to pay for the economic damage they did to the country when they shut down the airport in late 2009?

Keep up, heybruce.

I think that someone should pay - the Thai people have paid already - but, given the Yellow Shirts didn't "shut down the airport" (Airports of Thailand did) in 2008 (not 2009), it's kinda hard to bing charges against anyone. Unidentified PAD guards allegedly took over some planes, but the PAD leaders say they don't know anything about this. They might well be lieing, but how can one prove them wrong? Thai Law (and US and UK Law) states that it is the prosecution's job to prove the defendant guilty. Hard to do without catching them on video camera.

Ok, I got the year wrong, 2008, not 2009. Typos happen, as in "...bing charges...". But do you really think the Airports of Thailand had any choice but to shut down Bangkok's international airport after the Yellowshirts swarmed the terminal? That's like saying the Redshirts didn't block the streets of Bangkok last year, it was the police trying to keep people from driving into the mob.

I'm not a supporter of either side in this controversy, it's easy to find major faults in both and I see this as a Thai situation for Thai people to solve, hopefully peacefully. But I can understand the frustration of Redshirt supporters who can't help but notice that it is only their leaders who get prosecuted and convicted, and their elected Prime Ministers who get booted by the courts or military. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think a major Yellowshirt leader has ever been convicted of anything, and it's not because the Yellowshirts have done no wrong. Perhaps you have great faith in the fairness and incorruptability of the Thai judiciary, but it's easy to see why some Redshirts might have their doubts.

[heybruce]

no sir

In general, a yellow shirt is a previous red shirt who worked hard enough to earn a yellow shirt. A HiSo Thai is a previous yellow shirt who worked hard enough to be a five percenter.

No, I think a yellow shirt is someone born into a family that could afford private schools and university, while a red shirt was born in a village where one teacher had to teach all ages, all subjects, resulting in a lousy education and no university prospects.

A redneck ( er, shirt ) is almost always someone (in every country) who, for some bizzare reason, is angry that he/she is "earning" 6,000 baht per month. He/she does not want to work very hard

Have you ever done field labour? Trust me, it's hard work!

and/or save money to build a future for the future generations.

Yeah, six thousand baht a month and many mouths to feed leaves a lot of surplus for savings.

He/she will actually take their kids out of school at age 15 and have them work at some useless job, that will never provide upward mobility, and usually that extra income will just go towards more gambling, lottery and whiskey.

Or fertilizer. When you have to choose between taking your oldest child from school and putting him/her to work, or feeding your family, what do you do?

No amount of protests or handouts will break this cycle.

Obviously you believe in blaming the victim....

Their duaghters are f-in awsome though.......

and sexual exploitation. But you clearly are not a fan of spell-checking.

[whybother]

A lot of people on this forum seem not to like the Red Shirts or their cause very much. Much of the dislike boils down to questions of inconvenience. A chap feels he can't get somewhere as quickly as he normally would if there's a rally. Is that it? Is there anything else?

There are some people on this forum that do not like the Red Shirts.

But, WHAT is their cause?

It's not to have elections. They turned those down last year (twice) and they're expected in a couple of months.

It's not for help for the poor. The red shirts haven't put forward any policies that they would use to help the poor. The government have put in place many programs to improve education and help the poor.

Why have they been protesting?

Edited February 18, 2011 by whybother

[jackr]

A lot of people on this forum seem not to like the Red Shirts or their cause very much. Much of the dislike boils down to questions of inconvenience. A chap feels he can't get somewhere as quickly as he normally would if there's a rally. Is that it? Is there anything else?

Their cause! What would that be then? Lets see how much we can be paid per day by trashing the country instead of doing real, honest work to benefit it? They're a bunch of one-dimensional, brainwashed hypocrites and those 7 should never be considered for bail - causing the deaths of 90 people and burning up the capital... how many life sentences is that?

[animatic]

Some people here seem to regularly forget that most all anti-Red Shirts writers here, are against 'the redshirt leaders misuse of the country people for their political power play', and not in any way against the up country folk getting a much better shake in life, increased opportunities for education and jobs with increased income, and fairer pay for those they have now.

In fact most hope the red's leaders can be replaced with ones that are genuine and functional, and not screaming demagogues working for even more amoral backers.

The entity 'Red Shirts' has taken this 'genuine issue' and warped it so as to benefit the very people who have most harmed the poorest folk, by their own local greed and manipulations. And yet the country side dynamic means that these people can be convinced that this is their only route to help, and that those far above their 'regional leaders' are the real reason for their penury.

When in reality it is the puyais on the local regional level that profit and abuse the most egregiously and, the Red Shirts leaders are hand in glove with these abusers, and those farther up the food chain that would control them as a 'political machine' and network, in the classic feudal kowtow manner...

It's never been one of personal inconvenience, but one of greatly disliking seeing the country being run over rough shod by con-men and charlatanes, perfectly willing to 'brainwash and sacrifice' many poor and believing pawns, if it helps them reach their goals.

And these same regular anti-red writers, are against the actual harm, nationally and localized, not petty inconvenience, to the many hard working Thais prevented from getting on with their lives while this con job is perpetrated on a very small, but credulous and noisy, percent of the up country population.

In short it's not the goals of some poor that is the issue, but the badly hidden, self-serving agenda of the leaders and their methods which raise the ire and oprobrium of the posters. here.

Edited February 18, 2011 by animatic

[rubl]

Repeated again for those that missed the reply that was provided 8 hours ago to the same absurdity...

It's great that opinionated farang have a place (TV) where they can rant about the "inconveniences" that are part of a textbook class struggle. The Reds can be denigrated for fighting for their fair of share, and making it difficult to shop.

is this an inconvenience?

I don't understand this picture, or what your words mean. I think you ought to explain how this bears on the Red Shirts grievances.

Not part of this discussion, but the photo shows vanderGrift on the 19th of May 2010:

"Canadian freelance journalist Chandler Vandergrift has been seriously wounded in Bangkok, Thailand, by a grenade thrown at an anti-government protest site.

According to friend Ian Hinkle, Mr. Vandergrift, who was wearing a helmet, was injured by shrapnel from a grenade thrown by an anti-government protester. He is now in surgery. A Thai soldier was also seriously wounded in the explosion."

http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/05/19/roundup-chandler-vandergrift-canadian-journalist-wounded-in-bangkok/

[gemini81]

Tomorrow's march

Tomorrow is February 18, 2011. If February 19 is actually tomorrow for you then this shows you aren't even in Thailand, (maybe in Australia or New Zealand) and would therefore have less of an idea of what really has been going on here than those who live in Thailand.

Hi hyperdimension - yes - of course - February 19 is Saturday and not tomorrow. My mistake. Thanks for the reminder.

QUOTE:"....and would therefore have less of an idea of what really has been going on here than those who live in Thailand." That's what I like about the anti-Red brigade on TV - they never miss an opportunity to put down a Red-Shirt if they can. Sad and pathetic.

that's cause they provide endless opportunities with each passing day! if they were doing something positive for change, maybe that could be mentioned if it were actually true.

[Ricardo]

A lot of people on this forum seem not to like the Red Shirts or their cause very much. Much of the dislike boils down to questions of inconvenience. A chap feels he can't get somewhere as quickly as he normally would if there's a rally. Is that it? Is there anything else?

I live in Chiang Mai, and rarely visit Bangkok, so in my own case it isn't that "a chap feels he can't get somewhere as quickly as he normally would", as you suggest.

But I do object to a former-PM, stirring the shit & paying for violent 'peaceful protests' in the capital or elsewhere, or his local-leaders who mis-lead their followers with constant lies & propaganda, that shows a remarkable degree of self-interest and lack-of-integrity, IMO. And then when he professes 'not to know who the UDD are', doesn't that just take the cake ? !

This only serves to highlight why the army were right, to press the re-set button, after his caretaker-PM term had expired in September-2006. This man cannot be trusted with the future of his country.

That the army were reluctant to step-in, both when called-upon to suppress the PAD occupation of the airport and despite appalling armed-provocation during the 2-month-long Red-Shirt rally in Bangkok, surely shows encouraging signs of wishing to try to allow the democratic-process to solve democratic-problems ? A small step in the right direction.

I also find it encouraging, that current-PM Abhisit seems willing/able to shrug off the demands of the current PAD/NPP-remnants, and equally to permit the continuing (once a month, Khun Thida ?) rallies by the UDD. It may disrupt life in Bangkok, but it is their democratic right, so long as it stays peaceful. The PM should be applauded for understanding this.

Lastly the cause of helping the poor seems to me to be high on the current-government's agenda, if partly due to the nearing election, although the PTP seemed reluctant to acknowledge this at the Budget-debate. If the Red-Shirts truly cared about the people, and not just about one self-exiled former-leader now exposed as a crook & a tax-cheat, then they should start to support policies which benefit the poor, and look towards the coming election. But I fear this may be too much to ask of them.

No, it's not about some trivial personal-inconvenience, it's about disliking what the Red-Shirts really stand for !

[kdc1899]

unprecedented in thai would be a redneck (er,shirt) actually holding a job and not sitting around drinking whiskey while his wife and preteen kids go out and cut sugar and harvest rice.

A redneck ( er, shirt ) is almost always someone (in every country) who, for some bizzare reason, is angry that he/she is "earning" 6,000 baht per month.

Contradicting yourself there.

if i had not put earning in quotes it may have been a contradiction.

thanks

[Nisa]

I try not to be a doom & gloom pessimistic type person but I have a feeling this gathering is not going to go down well. Not sure why but I feel like there last gatherings have put many people's minds at ease in terms of what these folks are capable of and this is going to be a wake up call. Just wondering if anybody is is getting the same feeling.

[mca]

unprecedented in thai would be a redneck (er,shirt) actually holding a job and not sitting around drinking whiskey while his wife and preteen kids go out and cut sugar and harvest rice.

A redneck ( er, shirt ) is almost always someone (in every country) who, for some bizzare reason, is angry that he/she is "earning" 6,000 baht per month.

Contradicting yourself there.

if i had not put earning in quotes it may have been a contradiction.

thanks

Missed those. My apologies.

[Buchholz]

I try not to be a doom & gloom pessimistic type person but I have a feeling this gathering is not going to go down well. Not sure why but I feel like there last gatherings have put many people's minds at ease in terms of what these folks are capable of and this is going to be a wake up call. Just wondering if anybody is is getting the same feeling.

A return to the sort of violence that the Red Shirts have been initiating since way back in July 2007 (depicted above), and repeated countless times since then, should not be all that surprising.

.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Buchholz

[bulmercke]

I try not to be a doom & gloom pessimistic type person but I have a feeling this gathering is not going to go down well. Not sure why but I feel like there last gatherings have put many people's minds at ease in terms of what these folks are capable of and this is going to be a wake up call. Just wondering if anybody is is getting the same feeling.

Yes - I am. Tomorrow's march could pass off peacefully or there could be trouble of one sort or another - probably later in the day - dusk. It could go either way. Also the recent events in the Middle East and the levels of protest and militancy seen there could well act as a catalyst for similar minded protesters here.

Violent protest seems to be all the rage now and I can't see the Reds wanting to be left out of things for too long. Just my thoughts.

[whybother]

Yes - I am. Tomorrow's march could pass off peacefully or there could be trouble of one sort or another - probably later in the day - dusk. It could go either way. Also the recent events in the Middle East and the levels of protest and militancy seen there could well act as a catalyst for similar minded protesters here.

Violent protest seems to be all the rage now and I can't see the Reds wanting to be left out of things for too long. Just my thoughts.

The Egyption protests weren't violent, were they? Except when the pro-Mubarak people came out. The police didn't try to stop them protesting.

Egypt seems to be more of a comparison to the yellow shirt protests. The yellow shirts protests were peaceful until the red shirts came out to protest against them or the police tried to shut them down.

[Oberkommando]

Even though they turned down early elections last year (that would have already happened)

Oh dear, you don;t honestly believe that do you?

They are not using these rallies to get a message out .. they are using them to intimidate and inconvenience the country to get their way.

Yes, following the example of another group who were incredibly successful, arguably caused more damage to the economy and most certainly to the country's reputation and to date had not been punished for their crimes.

The precedent had already been set, no use crying about it now when another militant group does the same.

[Oberkommando]

Red and yellows, both have their violent elements. They both have paramilitary arms and have used violence in the past.

Arguing that one is more violent than the other is like arguing which egg is more egg-shaped.

[whybother]

Red and yellows, both have their violent elements. They both have paramilitary arms and have used violence in the past.

Arguing that one is more violent than the other is like arguing which egg is more egg-shaped.

"They both have paramilitary arms" ??

I know of only one example of yellow shirts having guns, and that was just a hand gun.

What do you mean by "paramilitary arms"?

[SomTumTiger]

Red and yellows, both have their violent elements. They both have paramilitary arms and have used violence in the past.

Arguing that one is more violent than the other is like arguing which egg is more egg-shaped.

Possibly the most asinine comment Ive read here in a long long time. Congrats Mein Furher!

[phiphidon]

Red and yellows, both have their violent elements. They both have paramilitary arms and have used violence in the past.

Arguing that one is more violent than the other is like arguing which egg is more egg-shaped.

"They both have paramilitary arms" ??

I know of only one example of yellow shirts having guns, and that was just a hand gun.

What do you mean by "paramilitary arms"?

Have a look at this clip of the yellow shirts building a barricade during the demonstrations to throw out Somchai. Particularly 2 minutes 46 seconds in. Looks like a mighty big "handgun" to me? Not to mention the ping pong bombs and the retired policeman who managed to blow himself up in his own car bomb (though he might just have been transporting explosives for stockpiling for Loy Krathong) . Abhisit went to his funeral to pay his respects.

[Buchholz]

Arguing that one is more violent than the other is like arguing which egg is more egg-shaped.

Only if one is trying to discount the violence of the historically much more violent Red Shirts.

[whybother]

Have a look at this clip of the yellow shirts building a barricade during the demonstrations to throw out Somchai. Particularly 2 minutes 46 seconds in. Looks like a mighty big "handgun" to me? Not to mention the ping pong bombs and the retired policeman who managed to blow himself up in his own car bomb (though he might just have been transporting explosives for stockpiling for Loy Krathong) . Abhisit went to his funeral to pay his respects.

Do you mean the camera?

Edited February 18, 2011 by whybother

[Emptyset]

The Egyption protests weren't violent, were they? Except when the pro-Mubarak people came out. The police didn't try to stop them protesting.

Egypt seems to be more of a comparison to the yellow shirt protests. The yellow shirts protests were peaceful until the red shirts came out to protest against them or the police tried to shut them down.

They were quite violent in the first few days if you remember, NDP headquarters and several other buildings were torched*. Some police were also killed, but mostly in the first few days I think. But organizers had training in nonviolent tactics, as detailed here: http://www.nytimes.c...a-protests.html

So the yellow shirt protests were peaceful until confronted? Well, so were the red shirts, it was fairly peaceful until the army were sent in as far as I recall. Of course, if protest groups are allowed to do what they like, i.e. occupy government house without contest and so on, why should they be violent? It's easy to be peaceful when faced with no resistance.

There's too much emphasis on non-violence anyway, it's a nice ideal, but in practice is usually impossible (when faced with violence from the state etc, the instinct is to fight back) or achieves little - both PAD and the UDD could've sat in the park for months and been totally ignored.

Most of the struggles for democracy in European countries were far more violent. We've had riots with no particular goals in mind, just people driven over the edge by utter frustration and they've actually achieved more in highlighting the inequities of society than any peaceful protest would (for instance, http://en.wikipedia....81_Brixton_riot).

In fact many of us on here would be willing to defend a certain amount of violence if we considered the protests valid. So it comes back to the professed ideals & goals of the protesters rather than the violence in itself. Most on here don't believe the red shirts had a valid reason to protest, so the violence angle is played up. If the struggle were somehow valid, I'd bet most of the violence would be ignored or deemed normal/necessary by those using the violence to demonize the UDD now. It's not true in every case, some people that supported PAD turned their backs on them after the airport invasion, of course, but not many. Imagine if PAD had been slaughtered and destroyed part of the airport? I'd bet most of the Thai media (at the time) would've talked about the brutality of Somchai's government and the crackdown, described the protesters as heroes etc with little mention of the destruction...

*http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/More+casualties+protests+escalate+Egypt/4173057/story.html

Edited February 18, 2011 by Emptyset

[ianbaggie]

It's great that opinionated farang have a place (TV) where they can rant about the "inconveniences" that are part of a textbook class struggle. The Reds can be denigrated for fighting for their fair of share, and making it difficult to shop.

blub blub blub.....I dont understand whats going on - what are all these nasty foreigners doing here?

[ianbaggie]

Was he speaking English when he said this?

How do you say 'unprecedented' in Thai?

yut maak?

unprecedented in thai would be a redneck (er,shirt) actually holding a job and not sitting around drinking whiskey while his wife and preteen kids go out and cut sugar and harvest rice.

Is this Hate Week?

NO!! good news - its truth today week!!

[Buchholz]

Have a look at this clip of the yellow shirts building a barricade during the demonstrations to throw out Somchai. Particularly 2 minutes 46 seconds in. Looks like a mighty big "handgun" to me?

Do you mean the camera?

Those Canon zoom lenses can be quite lethal...

[TAWP]

Have a look at this clip of the yellow shirts building a barricade during the demonstrations to throw out Somchai. Particularly 2 minutes 46 seconds in. Looks like a mighty big "handgun" to me? Not to mention the ping pong bombs and the retired policeman who managed to blow himself up in his own car bomb (though he might just have been transporting explosives for stockpiling for Loy Krathong) . Abhisit went to his funeral to pay his respects.

Do you mean the camera?

Hilarious.

[phiphidon]

Have a look at this clip of the yellow shirts building a barricade during the demonstrations to throw out Somchai. Particularly 2 minutes 46 seconds in. Looks like a mighty big "handgun" to me? Not to mention the ping pong bombs and the retired policeman who managed to blow himself up in his own car bomb (though he might just have been transporting explosives for stockpiling for Loy Krathong) . Abhisit went to his funeral to pay his respects.

Do you mean the camera?

Well eff me if you're not right! I do apologise. I'd seen this clip before ages ago and obviously convinced myself it was a gun then and dug it out again. I still stand by the fact that they were and can be violent B's. The car bomb comment still stands.

[ianbaggie]

Have a look at this clip of the yellow shirts building a barricade during the demonstrations to throw out Somchai. Particularly 2 minutes 46 seconds in. Looks like a mighty big "handgun" to me? Not to mention the ping pong bombs and the retired policeman who managed to blow himself up in his own car bomb (though he might just have been transporting explosives for stockpiling for Loy Krathong) . Abhisit went to his funeral to pay his respects.

Do you mean the camera?

Hilarious.

Just shows how desperate red shirts and their organisation are to dig "something/ANYTHING" up on the other side - when there isnt that much to dig up!! Shame they cant do something FOR Thailand instead of AGAINST it

[phiphidon]

Have a look at this clip of the yellow shirts building a barricade during the demonstrations to throw out Somchai. Particularly 2 minutes 46 seconds in. Looks like a mighty big "handgun" to me?

Do you mean the camera?

Those Canon zoom lenses can be quite lethal...

Yes I seem to remember you making that very same mistake with a photograph of a person who happened to be dressed in black who you insisted was a red shirt ready to fire a weapon. I recall that you weren't as gracious with your acceptance of that mistake. Mind you you probably still believe in the Cambodian/Chiang Mai trained Bomber battalions........