Crackdown On Backpack Teachers

[bluebear]

....Don't you think that the students will learn better if they are taught by native Thais?? Some teachers are from UK, some from US, some from Australia and some from some other country, all having completely different accents!! How do one expects to learn with such a confusing environment?

......

How many English teachers can speak or even know basic communication in Thai? And how do they (non Thai speaking teachers) expect to teach students English? Somebody gave the example of Indians/Phillipinos/Africans having better English, the difference is that instead of teaching the accent they emphasised on teaching the language itself. Accent can be corrected once you know the language. And there are so many accents in English these days that its no more relevant......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To the 1st point Thats how the thai english is such a mess it is at the moment. It was left to soley thai teachers who "spoke" english

2nd point

As others have said the native language is genreally not used by the teacher in the classroom. Why when you only have 1 hour ( or 2 or 3.... ) in a week do you waste that time by speaking in the native tongue that they hear the other 167 hours?

Also If you want to learn a language you go to the original source. Think of it like copy a recording on a tape, after a while the tape is unintelligible.

Who would you like to learn French from - a frenchman or a quebecois or a cajun?

Same with English. Learn from those countries where it is the national / legal / majority / spoken at home language. Not Indian / Phillipines / Malaysia etc.

I am not saying that there are good teachers only from UK / NZ / US etc etc and there are only bad ones from the rest of the world but the best teachers are at the end of the day native language speakers.

[brownsugar]

Bluebear, I differ with you.

The emphasis on native english speakers is part of the problem. They should emphasise on qualifed teachers. Bachelor of Teaching degree, and government endorsed professional english teaching certification(teaching license of sorts)

Speaking english does not mean you can teach it, most native speakers unless qualified cannot teach grammer properly. It get really technical when you have to explain tenses, punctuation.......... plus most native speakers still speak a sub-set of english with its unique regional variations.....american english, oz english, saffa english, singlish

....Don't you think that the students will learn better if they are taught by native Thais?? Some teachers are from UK, some from US, some from Australia and some from some other country, all having completely different accents!! How do one expects to learn with such a confusing environment?

......

How many English teachers can speak or even know basic communication in Thai? And how do they (non Thai speaking teachers) expect to teach students English? Somebody gave the example of Indians/Phillipinos/Africans having better English, the difference is that instead of teaching the accent they emphasised on teaching the language itself. Accent can be corrected once you know the language. And there are so many accents in English these days that its no more relevant......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To the 1st point Thats how the thai english is such a mess it is at the moment. It was left to soley thai teachers who "spoke" english

2nd point

As others have said the native language is genreally not used by the teacher in the classroom. Why when you only have 1 hour ( or 2 or 3.... ) in a week do you waste that time by speaking in the native tongue that they hear the other 167 hours?

Also If you want to learn a language you go to the original source. Think of it like copy a recording on a tape, after a while the tape is unintelligible.

Who would you like to learn French from - a frenchman or a quebecois or a cajun?

Same with English. Learn from those countries where it is the national / legal / majority / spoken at home language. Not Indian / Phillipines / Malaysia etc.

I am not saying that there are good teachers only from UK / NZ / US etc etc and there are only bad ones from the rest of the world but the best teachers are at the end of the day native language speakers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[johnwills]

I am interested in teaching in Thailand, my background is actually I.T and I have experience in teaching this subject. My English skills are pretty good (grammer could do with some work ) and I believe with the right training I could become a reasonable English teacher.

Does anyone know how easy it is to teach over here if you don't have a degree but have TEFL for example?? Most of the positions I have seen advertised say Degree required.

I have met a few Thai English teachers and to be honest have struggled to understand what they are saying to me (they are speaking English, apparently), so this doesn't bode well for their students.

I have also talked to a few people form the UK who plan to teach English in Thailand, however, their English is quite poor with limited Vocab and grammer etc so I can see why the gov would want to crack down on "Backpack" teachers.

As to teaching English using fake qualifications, I can imagine this would be a bit of a nightmare, you turn up for your first class and think right what do I do now? Lesson structure is very important if you want to get the most of the time you have with the students.

[mamypocopants]

and they just relized this 

half the teachers in Australia are not Mentaly quilifiyed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well thats a very intelligent quote Rigger --- I sure hope your not an Aussi --- let alone a teacher -- or what -- you fail high school and blame them

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I am a Aussie and no I didn’t fail high school

I just don’t see how Thailand is going to clean up the standard of teachers when countries like Australia can’t even do it but I won’t go into that as what I would have to say will upset to many posters as the truth hurts but how do these parasites get in and stay in teaching

And many may think I hate teachers but I really don’t my sister is a qualified teacher and I dated two teachers a years ago and the three teachers I have meet in Thailand have all been decent people as far as I could tell.

And never try and judge someone’s intelligents by there education as some of the highly educated people I know have about as much comment sense as smashed crab

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have found most of the ideas posted on this thread to be really interesting for all sorts of reasons. But your posts dude make me laugh the most....Cheers!

[makavelithedon]

I am interested in teaching in Thailand, my background is actually I.T and I have experience in teaching this subject.  My English skills are pretty good (grammer could do with some work ) and I believe with the right training I could become a reasonable English teacher. 

Does anyone know how easy it is to teach over here if you don't have a degree but have TEFL for example??  Most of the positions I have seen advertised say Degree required.

I have met a few Thai English teachers and to be honest have struggled to understand what they are saying to me (they are speaking English, apparently), so this doesn't bode well for their students.

I have also talked to a few people form the UK who plan to teach English in Thailand, however, their English is quite poor with limited Vocab and grammer etc so I can see why the gov would want to crack down on "Backpack" teachers.

As to teaching English using fake qualifications, I can imagine this would be a bit of a nightmare, you turn up for your first class and think right what do I do now?  Lesson structure is very important if you want to get the most of the time you have with the students.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi John,

If you wish to pm me I'll be as honest as I can. Anything you wish to know just ask away.

Mak

[makavelithedon]

Bluebear, I differ with you.

The emphasis on native english speakers is part of the problem. They should emphasise on qualifed teachers. Bachelor of Teaching degree, and government endorsed professional english teaching certification(teaching license of sorts)

Speaking english does not mean you can teach it, most native speakers unless qualified cannot teach grammer properly. It get really technical when you have to explain tenses, punctuation.......... plus most native speakers still speak a sub-set of english with its unique regional variations.....american english, oz english, saffa english, singlish

Whilst I don't think there are many who would disagree with your general point Brownsugar, it is another that simply doesn't address the reality of the situation. These people are and always will be unobtainable in 99% of cases. It is hard enough for many western countries to find the teachers it needs to fill vacancies without the hope of skimming any surplus who had a burning desire to subject themselves to the average government funded nightmare here!

I do accept though that a teacher who is Asian can do an excellent job, but again those who fit the bill are very limited, and even if their background knowledge of the language is solid, if there spoken communication is near uncomprehensible it's a failure to any attempt at implementing Asian objectives. Usually 'competent' global business communication.

A few more observations I have thought about in no particular order in what is IMO an excellent thread on the whole:

A more interesting analysis and/or question might be why with similar structures are other Asian countries doing or appear to be doing better? Or does the recent report (listing Thailand as one from bottom I believe) show very slight differences in ability which has been blown out of all context.

I know if you look at teaching forums in regard Korea the stories are the same, Japan's English ability is appalling (different circumstances granted) they don't need it! And that is the mindset of the general population. It is soley a brand/status thing there period.

Taiwan is a very small comparison and has numerous problems in this area also, however, there does appear a significantly higher number of professionally run language schools there, along with an unsaciable appettite for education.

Leaving Cambodia (below Thailand) and Vietnam who if the truth is known above the west's propoganda probably have a decent system due to the communist mindset and importance placed on education.

In Thailand education by the masses and rulers of the masses simply isn't looked upon as important. As said by other experienced and excellent posters, how the best teacher of langauge in the world is going to make a competent speaker from a child with 1 hour a week is anyones guess?

The problem is also compounded by the fact there are enough good schools for the elite, my gf's friends (some 25-30 that I have spoken to) who have all gone through the Elite's educational treadmill here, speak competent English. It's not out of the park but it's certainly good enough to communicate to an upper intermediate level, and that meets the criteria for communicating with the rest of the business world. Plus gain the status the parents crave for their kids and themselves.

I still feel, whilst there are no doubt those who abuse trust, show no understanding of the culture and in many cases which I have witnessed first hand, a plain lack of respect and out right ignorance. The overall number is minute to a population of 60 million and the teachers here. The insistance by many non-teachers to critisize the western minority giving one hour a week to classes of 45+ kids acting this weeks scenes in Gaza, is frankly laughable.

Most teachers I know do there best but there is only so much you can do with the cards your dealt! Poor facilities, structures and access to help etc etc, And certainly no medal of honour or V.C awaiting, just a wave of unrelenting, unjust and on the whole unfounded criticism it would appear?

Mak

[drummer]

However, in defense of the Backpacker teacher.. we assigned them to non-teaching duties, and that was more in their comfort zone.. Yard duty, dorm duty / Dorm parents...Study hall...a practice partner for English... Find the task for the person, and they do fine.. And everyone was happy.. the parents, because they saw white faces.. sorry but that is the call ... and the teaching staff.. enjoyed their input and help as teaching assistants.. AND.. YOU do not need a degree for that. AND as an observation.. in the boarding school environment.. too many kids are dumped .. and it becomes the role of the school to bring them along..and that is what the parents expect...Thus, the appropriate backpacker... would make a good choice..

Great post. Also, the formal teaching environment, while it has its benefits, certainly isn't for everyone. Thais like fun and games far more than classroom duty, and activities like that get evryone involved and it becomes harder to avoid learning anything .... point is

Maybe this kind of immersion program is best for all concerned? Have a highly paid professional teacher for the more serious students and smller class sizes, and have a few backpacker teachers who hang out with the kids and act as activity partners.

I'd also like to say that this kind of poblem is not unique to Thailand, and not unique to ESR teaching (Engrish as a Second Ranguage) by any means. Cutting corners in education? Try the US. Better pay will get better teachers. I know several people who would love to be teachers, but they hve the skills to make MUCH ebtter money doing something else. (In other words, sell out)

What about Math teachers? My sister was a Science teacher for a while teaching in Spanish in the States. She had people calling her up from other states. If we are serious about having good education, it takes money.

I'm all for fiscal responsibility, really I am, but education is one case where we ought to be throwing money at the problem. (not without a good plan, of course) Education is too damnned important.

[richard10365]

When I was a soldier, one of my assignments was as an instructor for the Patriot Missile system. The US Army sent me to the instructor training course to teach me the basics of teaching.

After that, I was given the status of Assistant Instructor and a mentor was assigned to prepare me for my initial teaching evaluation commonly referred to as “The Murder Board”. The name refers to what seems to happen if you fail this evaluation.

All aspects of teaching were evaluated to include lesson plan preparation, testing, teaching, and how you taught and controlled the class. The senior instructor would sit in the back of the class with a checklist, a copy of your lesson plan, and would write comments on what you did well and where you need improvement.

At the end of the evaluation the senior instructor would take you aside and review the evaluation with you. The more evaluations you took and passed, the higher your instructor status would become. The soldier progressed from Assistant Instructor to Instructor to Senior Instructor, and finally to Master Instructor.

The evaluations became a part of your Non-Commissioned Officer Evaluation Report or NCOER in the area of competency. Negative NCOERs were reasons to stop promotions and at times, discharge a soldier from the Army. Positive evaluations brought awards, promotions, and greater responsibility for the Army instructor.

Perhaps Thailand could benefit from a similar type of evaluation system that fosters an environment of growth and accountability in their teaching establishments. I think this would benefit their English dept quite a bit.

[bina]

english is a subject that somehow just doesnt make it it seems in a lot of countries; i;ve said this before, will reitierate now-- my three kids each ina different israeli school with middle class basis and strong PTA (parent teacher assoc =money ) and their english is horrendous... and their teachers are native english speakers from s.africa, america, grt. brit. etc.... but most of their teachers have been awful awful awful (and accredited i might add)

i have a friend who writes some of the english text books and they are wonderful books with work book included, but somehow the teaching aspect messes up the use of good text books.... just like in maths, either u have it, or u dont if u are a good teacher, u should be able to teach many subjects, if u are a bad teacher, then any subject will become mangled but math and english (or any language for that matter, i've had some really horrendous hebrew teachers too) once mangled, ruin any chance for improvement.

my son learned more english from one month of living in the states with grandparents then he learned in 12 years of school (and i;m an english speaker! but not at home ) including grammar (my mother is miss prissy grammar herself)

[phastmike]

I work for one of the top schools in Thailand but I had to rewrite the entire computer curriculum before teaching it. They were still using Pascal as an up to date programming language. Any IT people out there will know what I mean by this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

a bit off-topic.

Pascal still is a valid language, Delphi is the most common name now.

You do IT

[tjo o tjim]

There are two important parts to learning a language:

1. Language inistruction - grammar, vocabulary... the "rules". This is best performed by a qualified teacher.

2. Native Speaker/Role Model - The differences between spoken language and the rules.

Having experienced the same problems in Hong Kong, there is no substitute for having native speakers to talk to, although the grammar rules are important too.

I hope Thailand doesn't make the same mistakes that Hong Kong did after the handover.

[PeaceBlondie]

What can I add after 131 other replies? I'll try, based on having a real degree (not in English or education), a real (6 week) TEFL certificate, and two years of teaching English and maths in Thailand.

The problems with education of all kinds in Thailand are many. Recently, the Thai MoE stated that 80% of the Thai ajarns who teach English have no formal training in English. They teach like their great grandmothers used to teach rice farmers - in huge classes, hot classrooms, poor textbooks, indecipherable curriculum, no real exams, no failing students, nobody losing face, decrepit physical plants, insufficient budgets drained by corruption, no meaningful review or evaluation of anybody, and incompetent administrators, all the way up to this month's Minister of Education.

Now, you apply these problems to farang teachers of EFL, and it's a sure formula for disastrous failure. The systems don't pay adequate salaries and have to accept totally unqualified farang of all ages and nationalities. The Thais are too xenophobic to think farang can help them solve problems which they think don't exist. The administration of almost all schools, public and private, is so abysmal that anybody who's familiar with organization and common sense will go mad trying to make sense out of it. Also, Thai employers don't know how to identify a good job applicant, or how to keep a good teacher.

Yeah, when I get back from Spain, I'll apply for another EFL teaching job. I expect to receive zero communication from the staff, fairly reasonable respect from the students, and maybe in spite of everything, maybe possibly I might plausibly teach them how to speak and write English.

[icecubes]

Probe into complaints over backpack teachers

"Teachers not properly trained or tested by ministry standards

BANGKOK: -- The House committee on consumer protection has set up a team to probe parents' complaints that many bilingual schools hire backpacking tourists as teachers, lowering educational standards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lowering education standards in Thailand.

What a Quote, Thats to much

[aqua4]

The emphasis on native english speakers is part of the problem. They should emphasise on qualifed teachers. Bachelor of Teaching degree, and government endorsed professional english teaching certification(teaching license of sorts)

Speaking english does not mean you can teach it, most native speakers unless qualified cannot teach grammer properly. It get really technical when you have to explain tenses, punctuation.......... plus most native speakers still speak a sub-set of english with its unique regional variations.....american english, oz english, saffa english, singlish

Well that is the problem. You would actually have to pay people. Do YOU think schools would be interested? I think Blondie sums it up rather well.

1. The systems don't pay adequate salaries and have to accept totally unqualified farang of all ages and nationalities.

2. The Thais are too xenophobic to think farang can help them solve problems which they think don't exist.

3. The administration of almost all schools, public and private, is so abysmal that anybody who's familiar with organization and common sense will go mad trying to make sense out of it.

4. Thai employers don't know how to identify a good job applicant, or how to keep a good teacher.

[icecubes]

What can I add after 131 other replies?  I'll try, based on having a real degree (not in English or education), a real (6 week) TEFL certificate, and two years of teaching English and maths in Thailand.

In part I agree with what you say.

But any English education given by westerners is ten fold better than

the Thais will ever give there students, so its not that bad.

As for different ages and nationalities, well think your not right.

It’s not real issue.

Have a nice day.

[PeaceBlondie]

In part I agree with what you say.

But any English education given by westerners is ten fold better than

the Thais will ever give there students,  so its not that bad.

As for different ages and nationalities,  well think your not right.

It’s not real issue.

Have a nice day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I forget what I said about different ages and nationalities. I think some "non-native speakers" have accents that are worse and less familiar than the accents of native speakers, but good non-native speakers sometimes overcome that.

As for different ages...I'm over 60, and have more energy than three average Thai ajarns under the age of 35.

[bannork]

In part I agree with what you say.

But any English education given by westerners is ten fold better than

the Thais will ever give there students,  so its not that bad.

As for different ages and nationalities,   well think your not right.

It’s not real issue.

Have a nice day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I forget what I said about different ages and nationalities. I think some "non-native speakers" have accents that are worse and less familiar than the accents of native speakers, but good non-native speakers sometimes overcome that.

As for different ages...I'm over 60, and have more energy than three average Thai ajarns under the age of 35.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where I work some of the Thai ajarns are there from 7am to 5pm, whilst the farang teachers are in as late as possible and out the door as soon as their lessons are over for the day.

As for holidays and weekends, the Thai teachers are frequently called in for duty rotas and training.

For dedication at wages 4 times less the Thai teachers win handsdown.

[Rumpole]

[Where I work some of the Thai ajarns are there from 7am to 5pm, whilst the farang teachers are in as late as possible and out the door as soon as their lessons are over for the day.

As for holidays and weekends, the Thai teachers are frequently called in for duty rotas and training.

For dedication at wages 4 times less the Thai teachers win handsdown.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quantity does not necessarily equate with quality. Indeed, the two are often mutually exclusive. Something most Thai employers have yet to realize.

[bannork]

[Where I work some of the Thai ajarns are there from 7am to 5pm, whilst the farang teachers are in as late as possible and out the door as soon as their lessons are over for the day.

As for holidays and weekends, the Thai teachers are frequently called in for duty rotas and training.

For dedication at wages 4 times less the Thai teachers win handsdown.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quantity does not necessarily equate with quality. Indeed, the two are often mutually exclusive. Something most Thai employers have yet to realize.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just defending some Thai teachers Rumpole, over the years I've met more than a few Thai teachers, both teachers of English and other subjects, who have been outstanding in method,delivery and results. They could make more money selling pirate VCDs on the street but devotion to the cause keeps them there.

[JustAnotherFarang]

Just defending some Thai teachers Rumpole, over the years I've met more than a few Thai teachers, both teachers of English and other subjects, who have been outstanding in method,delivery and results. They could make more money selling pirate VCDs on the street but devotion to the cause keeps them there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I agree that there are many good/excellent thai teachers out there but as the saying goes, a few rotten apples will soon spoil the barrel and sadly I see this to be the case. Most good teachers start off with the best of intentions but when they have such poor examples to follow from their senior colleagues, their standards often slip so that they do not stand out from the crowd......

As for the idea that teachers remain teachers because of devotion......... well its a half truth......... the real reason is the guaranteed wage every month, including full holidays, free treatment at hospitals and dentists, the ability to borrow substantial amounts of money from the government and pay it back on the never never and last but not least..........a guaranteed pension

JAF

[PeaceBlondie]

I forget what I said about different ages and nationalities.  I think some "non-native speakers" have accents that are worse and less familiar than the accents of native speakers, but good non-native speakers sometimes overcome that.

As for different ages...I'm over 60, and have more energy than three average Thai ajarns under the age of 35.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where I work some of the Thai ajarns are there from 7am to 5pm, whilst the farang teachers are in as late as possible and out the door as soon as their lessons are over for the day.

As for holidays and weekends, the Thai teachers are frequently called in for duty rotas and training.

For dedication at wages 4 times less the Thai teachers win handsdown.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do you mean, wages 4 times less? My Thai boss made 30,600 and she was primarily a classroom teacher. Another Thai English teacher made 27K and I made 25K. I was always there by 7:40 (with the hardest, longest commute), and didn't leave until 4:30. They aren't always punctual, either, and some leave early. Some run personal errands, or sleep at their desk.

But yes, most Thai ajarns are very dedicated, and the system has them cowed into thinking they must obey like slaves. I occasionally stayed late or came in on weekends. They get health benefits, pensions, cheap loans, etc., that we never get. If you subtract the cost of my visa runs, taxes, and unpaid months, I probably brought home 7,000 per month for full time teaching. And I made original, student-centered, imaginative lesson plans on my own, taught speaking and listening classes that the Thai ajarns CANNOT teach. I constantly walked around the classroom, knew the first names and nicknames of almost all my program students, wrote and graded my own tests (which were not multiple guess or poorly written). In the last semester, I taught 19 hours per week, most of them classes of 52 strangers, and the Thai ajarn whose class I was 'helping'would often disappear. Yet, even on days that I taught 5 classes energetically, I still had enough energy at the end of the day to swim for an hour and ride the bike back home for 40 minutes. I stand by the original post.

[Rumpole]

What do you mean, wages 4 times less?  My Thai boss made 30,600 and she was primarily a classroom teacher.  Another Thai English teacher made 27K and I made 25K. 

This tired old "farang make four or five times more than Thai ajarns" refrain is yet one more myth which needs to be consigned to the dustbin, along with the equally false notions that Thai schools are laid-back, friendly places to work, and work permits are a cynch to obtain if you have the right paperwork.

Edited September 24, 2005 by Rumpole

[bannork]

What do you mean, wages 4 times less?  My Thai boss made 30,600 and she was primarily a classroom teacher.  Another Thai English teacher made 27K and I made 25K. 

This tired old "farang make four or five times more than Thai ajarns" refrain is yet one more myth which needs to be consigned to the dustbin, along with the equally false notions that Thai schools are laid-back, friendly places to work, and work permits are a cynch to obtain if you have the right paperwork.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry Rumpole, it's all true where I work, farang teachers-32,000 baht per month, Thai teachers-6,500-8,500. Friendly? Our boss has frequently invited the farang teachers on trips, taken us out to dinner,given money to farang teachers for weddings, babies, even an accident when a drunken teacher ran across a zebra crossing without looking.

Our school's so laid-back the deputy director broke his chair reclining last week, he's a 100 kilo plus Devonian.

And if you've got a degree the work permit's a cynch too.

Don't believe me? There's 2 other TV members who can vouch for every word above.

[Rumpole]

^ Experiences may vary.

[bluebear]

This tired old "farang make four or five times more than Thai ajarns" refrain is yet one more myth which needs to be consigned to the dustbin, along with the equally false notions that Thai schools are laid-back, friendly places to work, and work permits are a cynch to obtain if you have the right paperwork.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

as you say experiences may vary so just because it isnt true in your place doesnt mean its a myth.

[JustAnotherFarang]

Its true, Thai teachers earn as little as 6000 - 8000 bht per month, which may account for the apathy that I have seen in my school. But we must remember that that is a full 12 month contract plus all the guaranteed freebies like healthcare, pension and loan support.

Where the thai teachers really rack up the money is through oversized private tuition classes at 500-1000 bht per month per student. It soon adds up which expalins why you never really see a poor teacher.

Still, its a sht job for them sometimes and I have a lot of respect considering some of them have been doing it for 10-15 years plus. I have only been at it for 5 years and it has visibly aged me hahahahaha

JAF

[meadish_sweetball]

Based on your knowledge as demonstrated in this forum, bannork, your school is lucky to have you, especially at that salary.

[silk123]

As a parent paying 80k for a school that has god ###### thai assistant who cannot speak english and a teacher who speaks mostly thai in the classroom.

if i wanted my kid to speak thai i would send her to a wat with the peasant kids and she could learn all the swear words in a few minutes listening to them.

The schools here make a fortune on foreign english teachers and its just selfish of the owners. Pay for real english teachers not god ######

philipino peasants.

I swear if that school even thinks they are going to let a philipino jesus freak so called teacher near my kid...i'll blast their name to ######.

how can schools that just steal from the parent expect the student to be any different.

[silk123]

What the word filter wont let us say h.e.l.l.

Is d.a.m.n a swear word.

Get real.

[silk123]

Thai teachers in the gov schools earn about 22k after 15 years.

That 6-8k figure is for newly graduated ones in private schools or the like. That's just the figure they throw at foreign teachers to sucker them up a bit.

Any extra job titles also get them extra pay.

Pay peanuts and you know what you get?