France to recognize Palestine in September, Palestinian official says

[coma]

You then mention "SOME" Palestinian groups, you would be referring to Hammas the current government?! That same group that encourages violence against all Jews - civilians, that same group that refuses to recognize Israel and has fired over 20 000 rockets into Israel targeting ONLY and MAINLY civilians. So I guess Israeli government should have them over for a cup of tea according to your logic, unless you know other wats to deal with "GROUP" as you like to call current terrorist government.

You are not worth any more time.You are delusional, bitter to the extent that your hatred is on open diplay in a public forum. This makes me feel quite sad for you. Your Avatar says it all.

Your arguement is an epic failure. Good bye.

[Wallaby]

I don't think people can have a serious discussion about this conflict with anyone who doesn't admit to major faults on BOTH sides. I don't know what the result of the French action will be, but it certainly sounds unbalanced towards the Palestinians. I don't see how that actually brings peace and a stable two states with borders accepted by both sides. On the other hand, nothing else has worked and the smart money is that people will be having similar discussions another 50 years from now.

A good reasoned post Jingthing.

[Ulysses G.]

...people are in denial of the fact that the Israeli Gov is every bit as bad and in alot off cases even more deadly than thier percieved foe.

If you mean that the Israeli government are dangerous to terrorists that target innocent women and children to maim and kill, you might have a point. However, the Israeli military do their best to avoid killing non-combatants even though Hamas use their fellow Palestinians as human shields, so trying to compare the two is utterly absurd.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Wallaby]

I don't dispute that the arab world are greatly responsible for what has happened.

Then why does almost every one of your posts condemn Israel? This is the first time that I can remember you mentioning this.

Show some balance before calling other posters "apologists" as you fit the label as much as anyone.

This is one of my posts from another topic. I've copied it in full but it is really only to show that, yes, I have stated before that I'm no particular fan of what Palestine does. So I don't know why you think I am against Israel and not against Palestine's methods also. BTW, you did answer quite well so no need to rehash it. I'm only posting to your question here.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to twist your words. I apogise for taking it the wrong way.

Tell me of a particular thing Israel has done wrong ie: using sulpher bombs that are illegal, continuing settlements which are illegal, expanding borders aftter agreeing not too, boarding a ship earning condemnation because it was in international waters? I don't know, just come up with a few.

I'm quite happy to say that the Palestinians are no angels, they use children as shields, they indiscriminently lauch rockets not giving a sh*t where they they land, they will use propaganda to say that innocent families have been killed by Israeli forces when they aren't so innocent.

I think the Palestinians aren't all saints. I also think they are way outmuscled and are trying to use whatever they can to gain sympathy, that's what the downtrodden do, though it can be the wrong thing to do.

What I don't understand is people that just state that no matter how illegal/immoral one side acts, it is always acceptable.

So what do you think the Israeli's have done that you would consider not exactly in the intersts of peace and the acceptable to the world at large?

Edited March 7, 2011 by Wallaby

[Ulysses G.]

You are delusional, bitter to the extent that your hatred is on open diplay in a public forum.

It takes one to know one.

[coma]

I don't think people can have a serious discussion about this conflict with anyone who doesn't admit to major faults on BOTH sides. I don't know what the result of the French action will be, but it certainly sounds unbalanced towards the Palestinians. I don't see how that actually brings peace and a stable two states with borders accepted by both sides. On the other hand, nothing else has worked and the smart money is that people will be having similar discussions another 50 years from now.

A good reasoned post Jingthing.

I agree. But Jingthing can you elaborate more on your view that the french action sounds unbalanced towards the Palestinians if you wouldn't mind?

[BKKarim]

I don't think people can have a serious discussion about this conflict with anyone who doesn't admit to major faults on BOTH sides. I don't know what the result of the French action will be, but it certainly sounds unbalanced towards the Palestinians. I don't see how that actually brings peace and a stable two states with borders accepted by both sides. On the other hand, nothing else has worked and the smart money is that people will be having similar discussions another 50 years from now.

Recognizing of Palestine by more and more States around the globe could raise the diplomatic pressure on Israel to stop with their illegal settlements. If Israel continue to ignore international voices it will finally end on the list of evil countries, just right next to Iran, Libya and France. And peace loving liberals can (without feeling guilty) write letters to Obama and demand "Oh, please do the BLITZ on Tel Aviv!"

[coma]

...people are in denial of the fact that the Israeli Gov is every bit as bad and in alot off cases even more deadly than thier percieved foe.

If you mean that the Israeli government are dangerous to terrorists that target innocent women and children to maim and kill, you might have a point. However, the Israeli military do their best to avoid killing non-combatants even though Hamas use their fellow Palestinians as human shields, so trying to compare the two is utterly absurd.

Come on my friend. U know better than that. White phospherous was openly just by the IDF in the last Gaza incursion. And I think you know that this is a area weapon. Not a point weapon. I will leave it at that.

[chuckd]

Recognizing of Palestine by more and more States around the globe could raise the diplomatic pressure on Israel to stop with their illegal settlements. If Israel continue to ignore international voices it will finally end on the list of evil countries, just right next to Iran, Libya and France. And peace loving liberals can (without feeling guilty) write letters to Obama and demand "Oh, please do the BLITZ on Tel Aviv!"

It appears our new found friend, BKKKarim, might have an agenda. Joined yesterday (6 March 2011) at 1528 hours and already has 43 posts to his credit, averaging nearly two posts per hour.

Sort of reminds me of some former posters that seem to have disappeared.

Edited March 7, 2011 by chuckd

[Ulysses G.]

This is one of my posts from another topic. I've copied it in full but it is really only to show that, yes, I have stated before that I'm no particular fan of what Palestine does.

Since I've read most of your posts on the subject, I can tell you that took some real digging, but still there you are making excuses for terrorist tactics while pretending to be objective.

Writing one post every six months stating the obvious about terrorists in order to claim that you are not biased does not turn you into Martin Luther King (who was very supportive of Israel by the way). You have constantly been hateful toward Israel on this forum and your posting history proves it.

[Ulysses G.]

Sort of reminds me of some former posters that seem to have disappeared.

Of course and my guess is that he did not vanish willingly.

[coma]

Recognizing of Palestine by more and more States around the globe could raise the diplomatic pressure on Israel to stop with their illegal settlements. If Israel continue to ignore international voices it will finally end on the list of evil countries, just right next to Iran, Libya and France. And peace loving liberals can (without feeling guilty) write letters to Obama and demand "Oh, please do the BLITZ on Tel Aviv!"

It appears our new found friend, BKKKarim, might have an agenda. Joined yesterday (6 March 2011) at 1528 hours and already has 43 posts to his credit, averaging nearly two posts per hour.

Sort of reminds me of some former posters that seem to have disappeared.

LoL

[Wallaby]

This is one of my posts from another topic. I've copied it in full but it is really only to show that, yes, I have stated before that I'm no particular fan of what Palestine does.

Since I've read most of your posts on the subject, I can tell you that took some real digging, but still there you are making excuses for terrorist tactics while pretending to be objective.

Writing one post every six months stating the obvious about terrorists in order to claim that you are not biased does not turn you into Martin Luther King (who was very supportive of Israel by the way). You have constantly been hateful toward Israel on this forum and your posting history proves it.

If that is your view then I am sorry for you but I am happy to sit with the view of MOST of the world in condemnation of Israel when they have committed attrocities. I also sit with the rest of the world when Palestine do the same.

Do you have any posts condeming Israel's actions at anytime or do you only condemn those against Israel? That is not an accusation but a question.

[coma]

This is one of my posts from another topic. I've copied it in full but it is really only to show that, yes, I have stated before that I'm no particular fan of what Palestine does.

Since I've read most of your posts on the subject, I can tell you that took some real digging, but still there you are making excuses for terrorist tactics while pretending to be objective.

Writing one post every six months stating the obvious about terrorists in order to claim that you are not biased does not turn you into Martin Luther King (who was very supportive of Israel by the way). You have constantly been hateful toward Israel on this forum and your posting history proves it.

Martin who???

I am sure glad we aren't all in the same room shouting beers and having this argument out together. My guess is we would all be kicking off alot quicker than both Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza. Talking about beers. I am off for a few. I will leave you guys to it, For now. Have a nice evening.

[kuffki]

You then mention "SOME" Palestinian groups, you would be referring to Hammas the current government?! That same group that encourages violence against all Jews - civilians, that same group that refuses to recognize Israel and has fired over 20 000 rockets into Israel targeting ONLY and MAINLY civilians. So I guess Israeli government should have them over for a cup of tea according to your logic, unless you know other wats to deal with "GROUP" as you like to call current terrorist government.

How many civilians were killed by Hammas, how many civilians were killed by IDF?

You right its Israel's fault for Hammas using their own people as shields, it is Israels fault for NOT hiding behind its own civilians

Its Israels fault for developing and implementing every means possible to protect its citizens.

[bulmercke]

This is one of my posts from another topic. I've copied it in full but it is really only to show that, yes, I have stated before that I'm no particular fan of what Palestine does.

Since I've read most of your posts on the subject, I can tell you that took some real digging, but still there you are making excuses for terrorist tactics while pretending to be objective.

Writing one post every six months stating the obvious about terrorists in order to claim that you are not biased does not turn you into Martin Luther King (who was very supportive of Israel by the way). You have constantly been hateful toward Israel on this forum and your posting history proves it.

Seems like that any negative commentary on this forum concerning Israel and it's deplorable treatment of the Palestinians now constitutes a thought crime on this forum as far as some of its forum members are concerned.

[kuffki]

You then mention "SOME" Palestinian groups, you would be referring to Hammas the current government?! That same group that encourages violence against all Jews - civilians, that same group that refuses to recognize Israel and has fired over 20 000 rockets into Israel targeting ONLY and MAINLY civilians. So I guess Israeli government should have them over for a cup of tea according to your logic, unless you know other wats to deal with "GROUP" as you like to call current terrorist government.

You are not worth any more time.You are delusional, bitter to the extent that your hatred is on open diplay in a public forum. This makes me feel quite sad for you. Your Avatar says it all.

Your arguement is an epic failure. Good bye.

Thats is the best and most rational post you have made so far especially the "goodbye" part, but yet again failed to get the facts right.

Usually people when can not post anything of a value resort to personal attacks and you have just made it very clear which one of us is actually delusional and has any idea on the facts or history.

Edited March 7, 2011 by kuffki

[powderpuff]

Recognizing of Palestine by more and more States around the globe could raise the diplomatic pressure on Israel to stop with their illegal settlements. That is pure hyperbole by you. If Israel continue to ignore international voices it will finally end on the list of evil countries, just right next to Iran, Libya and France. And peace loving liberals can (without feeling guilty) write letters to Obama and demand "Oh, please do the BLITZ on Tel Aviv!"

My list of rogue states.

China PRC, North Korea, Iran. Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Mexico & Libya.

Palestine would be on the list but it's a territory not a Country.

Kareem I liked how you had France on your list. They're pink not really red.

I wonder if the U.S. would tolerate rocket attacks every single day from Canada?

Edited March 7, 2011 by powderpuff

[Ulysses G.]

White phospherous was openly just by the IDF in the last Gaza incursion.

It was used to create a cloud cover intended to make it harder for Hamas militants to see IDF soldiers - which is what it is meant for - and there were no deaths caused by its use. However, the use of white phosphorus as a weapon of war is not banned under international law.

By the way, Hamas has purposely fired white phospherous rockets into civilian areas and it was meant to kill rather than provide cover.

[Wallaby]

This is one of my posts from another topic. I've copied it in full but it is really only to show that, yes, I have stated before that I'm no particular fan of what Palestine does.

Since I've read most of your posts on the subject, I can tell you that took some real digging, but still there you are making excuses for terrorist tactics while pretending to be objective.

Writing one post every six months stating the obvious about terrorists in order to claim that you are not biased does not turn you into Martin Luther King (who was very supportive of Israel by the way). You have constantly been hateful toward Israel on this forum and your posting history proves it.

Martin who???

I am sure glad we aren't all in the same room shouting beers and having this argument out together. My guess is we would all be kicking off alot quicker than both Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza. Talking about beers. I am off for a few. I will leave you guys to it, For now. Have a nice evening.

I think the internet is an easy forum to argue any point. Some argue for the sake of taking another side, some for fun, some because they are just bored (not pointing fingers). I would hope that if we all found ourselves in a bar we would be happy to just shout each other ales without the need to argue over world politics/religion. Life is way too short.

Enjoy your beers.

[BKKarim]

You then mention "SOME" Palestinian groups, you would be referring to Hammas the current government?! That same group that encourages violence against all Jews - civilians, that same group that refuses to recognize Israel and has fired over 20 000 rockets into Israel targeting ONLY and MAINLY civilians. So I guess Israeli government should have them over for a cup of tea according to your logic, unless you know other wats to deal with "GROUP" as you like to call current terrorist government.

How many civilians were killed by Hammas, how many civilians were killed by IDF?

You right its Israel's fault for Hammas using their own people as shields, it is Israels fault for NOT hiding behind its own civilians

Its Israels fault for developing and implementing every means possible to protect its citizens.

Simply answer that question. I thought you were the man of the statistics, at least you seems to count all the rockets Hammas has send.

So do you have some more figures?

How many Israeli children died? How many Palestinian children died?

[Wallaby]

White phospherous was openly just by the IDF in the last Gaza incursion.

It was used to create a cloud cover intended to make it harder for Hamas militants to see IDF soldiers - which is what it is meant for - and there were no deaths caused by its use. However, the use of white phosphorus as a weapon of war is not banned under international law.

By the way, Hamas has purposely fired white phospherous rockets into civilian areas and it was meant to kill rather than provide cover.

What is the difference between using it for cloud cover and using it to kill. Either it kills or it doesn't, the meaning of use doesn't matter. If it isn't banned under international law then what is wrong with Hamas using it?

[Wallaby]

Simply answer that question. I thought you were the man of the statistics, at least you seems to count all the rockets Hammas has send.

So do you have some more figures?

How many Israeli children died? How many Palestinian children died?

Too many is the right answer.

[Ulysses G.]

Do you have any posts condeming Israel's actions at anytime or do you only condemn those against Israel? That is not an accusation but a question.

Yes, I have made negative posts about Israeli actions, but because they are actually willing to make peace, I give them a lot more credit than the enemies who refuse to even consider it.

[Ulysses G.]

What is the difference between using it for cloud cover and using it to kill.

If used for cover, it is not shot directly at human beings and since no one was killed by WP, it was used to hide soldiers from the Islamic terrorists.

[kuffki]

You then mention "SOME" Palestinian groups, you would be referring to Hammas the current government?! That same group that encourages violence against all Jews - civilians, that same group that refuses to recognize Israel and has fired over 20 000 rockets into Israel targeting ONLY and MAINLY civilians. So I guess Israeli government should have them over for a cup of tea according to your logic, unless you know other wats to deal with "GROUP" as you like to call current terrorist government.

How many civilians were killed by Hammas, how many civilians were killed by IDF?

You right its Israel's fault for Hammas using their own people as shields, it is Israels fault for NOT hiding behind its own civilians

Its Israels fault for developing and implementing every means possible to protect its citizens.

Simply answer that question. I thought you were the man of the statistics, at least you seems to count all the rockets Hammas has send.

So do you have some more figures?

How many Israeli children died? How many Palestinian children died?

yes i am a man of facts and yet you are to show any, irrespective of how many times i have asked you.

Palestinians by far more then Israeli's HOWEVER what each side has done to avoid casualties and protect its citizens??? Please answer me that.

No rockets from Palestine=no response from Israel= no deaths

Rockets fired from under the civilians cover=more civilian deaths

Measures taken to protect civilians=no civilian deaths

Bomb shelters=less dead

Rocket production and non stop firing=more response=more deaths

Now please answer me which side specifically targets civilians? and this time DO NOT change the subject!

PS. some figures for you if you really need it, since 2000 6400 Palestinians killed and 1084 Israelis

Palestinian children 1452, Israeli children 124

Edited March 7, 2011 by kuffki

[Wallaby]

What is the difference between using it for cloud cover and using it to kill.

If used for cover, it is not shot directly at human beings and since no one was killed by WP, it was used to hide soldiers from the Islamic terrorists.

According to Wikipedia (though I don't like quoting that site) no WP fired by Hamas has resulted in any deaths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus

If you go down to the 'Gaza War' part, that is what I refer to.

Any military can just fire those things and claim something else, any country. I wouldn't wish that sort of thing on anyone, just don't use it.

[Ulysses G.]

According to Wikipedia (though I don't like quoting that site) no WP fired by Hamas has resulted in any deaths.

Who said they did? They tried to kill civilians. No one said that they had succeeded.

Weapons of any type are terrible, but mankind has never been totally at peace.

[BKKarim]

How many Israeli children died? How many Palestinian children died?

yes i am a man of facts and yet you are to show any, irrespective of how many times i have asked you.

Palestinians by far more then Israeli's HOWEVER what each side has done to avoid casualties and protect its citizens??? Please answer me that.

No rockets from Palestine=no response from Israel= no deaths

Rockets fired from under the civilians cover=more civilian deaths

Measures taken to protect civilians=no civilian deaths

Bomb shelters=less dead

Rocket production and non stop firing=more response=more deaths

Now please answer me which side specifically targets civilians? and this time DO NOT change the subject!

Q. Now please answer me which side specifically targets civilians?

With some statistics and figures about the civilian victims on both sides the question might be easier to answer.

First you mentioned just the 20000 Hamas rockets, but that alone illustrates nothing.

Now you say there are far more Palestinian victims. I would say that changes the whole picture a bit.

Don't you think?

Quite a difference when you say "Evil Hamas has send 20000 rockets" or "Far more Palestinian civilians have been killed than Israeli"

Please keep that in mind.

And when you, as the man of statistics and facts, have also the exact number of victims, please come up with it.

Q. what each side has done to avoid casualties and protect its citizens???

As you said the far more Palestinians were killed, an odd (rhetorical) question, what is the logic behind? The number of Palestinian victims is far greater because over there they do nothing to protect them from IDF air strikes? So it is the fault of the Palestinians?

Or simply the number of israeli victims is lower because they were not specifically targets?

[Ulysses G.]

First you mentioned just the 20000 Hamas rockets, but that alone illustrates nothing.

It certainly illustrates intent. They are hate-mnogers, but no one has claimed that Hamas are competent.

Israel has wiped the floor with a bunch of much larger countries - over and over again - that have attacked them first. It is pretty hard to blame them for responding decisively even though their enemies are not the most proficient armies.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Ulysses G.