Australia Lags Behind Thailand On Women Bosses

[IanForbes]

This crap about "gender equality" cannot be taken serious. It is raisin picking, they want advantages only based on their gender. They don't want "equality", but preferential treatment.

I will take it serious once they demand equal opportunities in

• working at construction sites
• canal work
• mining
• junk disposal
• all dirty, hard labour 99% men are doing

They don't want that. They want high salaries, high positions, 20-hour weeks and a nearby coffee machine (serviced by men).

I agree,

Thailand is one of the few societies offering equal rights to women.

They can mix concrete on construction sites, sweep roads, collect garbage, same as men.

The only right they don't seem to get, is the right to be totally supported by a man (or the state) after conceiving a child.

Their body, their right to chose, and their responsibility.

I'm surprised they only get 45% of the management jobs, wherever I go Thai ladies seem to be running everything.

I don't believe western women will ever achieve anything like the equality of women in Thailand, while they think they have the right not to work, and can just sit around after producing a child for the rest of their lives. Why would a woman bother working hard 24/7 and becoming the CEO of a western company, when they can just shag the guy a few times and get an entitlement to everything he earns?I certainly wouldn't have bothered working much if I were a woman in the western world!

When I left the UK, being a single woman with two children would have entitled me to, free accommodation, no taxes and a guaranteed minimum tax free income of 15,000UKP a year, whether I worked or not.

I would also agree. But, despite going on for 3 pages of comments it seems everyone is STILL trying to prove that apples are not apples, but in fact, oranges.

It doesn't take a university degree to notice what actually goes on in Thailand. At least not at the street level. I no longer spend much time in offices, so I can't comment on them, but at the street level I can certainly see that Thai women work harder than Thai men.

I also agree that Thai women get the dirty end of the stick when it comes to not being protected after husbands and boyfriends do a runner and leave the women with children the men fathered, and yet no financial support.

I also noticed nobody mentioned the farang/Thai marriages. Because a farang can not really own property in Thailand, the woman gets ownership of a business the farang started... or at least she gets a controlling share. That might help skew the statistics.

[mark45y]

I have been employed in both the education and hospitality industry in Thailand and they both seem to me to have more women executives than men.

In health care I believe there are more female doctors and dentists and administrators than males.

I don't think the OP was about political bosses so I will give that a pass.

I don't think women are exploited in Thailand. From what I see the woman controls the purse strings in most families. In my personal experience I have seen more dominant women in Thai families when it comes to issues of money than males. I have seen many examples of women letting the males think they are in charge.

I have seen many examples of male preference in child raising and early education situations. I really don't know how to explain this discrepancy. But I can see how some would think males exploit women.

A quick and accurate measure of exploitation might be had by watching a bank. How many women make transactions as opposed to men. That would probably give one an idea of who controls the cash. The person who controls the cash controls the family. I would suggest the majority of the time in Thailand this is the woman.

[Wallaby]

I guess that would be a matter of your personal perspective wouldn't it?did you have a point to make BTW?

I thought you weren't going to enter the debate until someone said something coherent.

So own up, who was it and what was it?

Would you then please go and shave your armpits.

[Deeral]

I have been employed in both the education and hospitality industry in Thailand and they both seem to me to have more women executives than men.

In health care I believe there are more female doctors and dentists and administrators than males.

I don't think the OP was about political bosses so I will give that a pass.

I don't think women are exploited in Thailand. From what I see the woman controls the purse strings in most families. In my personal experience I have seen more dominant women in Thai families when it comes to issues of money than males. I have seen many examples of women letting the males think they are in charge.

I have seen many examples of male preference in child raising and early education situations. I really don't know how to explain this discrepancy. But I can see how some would think males exploit women.

A quick and accurate measure of exploitation might be had by watching a bank. How many women make transactions as opposed to men. That would probably give one an idea of who controls the cash. The person who controls the cash controls the family. I would suggest the majority of the time in Thailand this is the woman.

What a facile response - of course you don't actually have the figures but you also haven't bothered to think WHY you see more - not a preponderance - of women in these fields????

You're actually talking about educated women who are largely under-paid.

As for those who work on the roads - only a fool copuld see that as equality; it is pure unadulterated exploitation.

As for the concept of "their body, their responsibility, I might remind you of a deserved traditional Thai punishment metered out by Thai women? Very apt in some cases!

There is light at the end of the tunnel though - Thai men are increasingly lagging behind in education - they rely much more on corruption, nepotism and graft - but the increasing number of BETTER qualified women is changing the balance - women do not have anywhere near the same wealth as men in Thailand and the prevailing corrupt elite make change very slow, but when it comes to international business standards, the change is inevitable as companies will need the BEST executives to prosper, this is not decided by "Victorian" concepts of gender such as those promulgated by the in some of the more imbecilic posts in this thread

Edited April 18, 2011 by Deeral

[zzaa09]

I don't think women are exploited in Thailand. From what I see the woman controls the purse strings in most families. In my personal experience I have seen more dominant women in Thai families when it comes to issues of money than males. I have seen many examples of women letting the males think they are in charge.

Isn't this a dose of reality? And a truer disposition of most situations than not.

[trevorg]

Child labour the cutting edge????

Really?

I would take the Oz pm's view on women in the workplace.......

I believe that if a woman has the intellectual, psychological and or physical ability to do a job, she shouldn't be denied that on the basis of gender.

Especially by legislation!

I think that it is fairly clear that women in Thailand are exploited in almost every area.......looking for a stat like the OP above is meaningless.....a bit like the Sun UK paper posting headlines such as "UK HOTTER THEN MUMBAI" - oh yes, right.......for one hour on one day when Mumbai is having a cold snap!

And no-one in this thread disagrees with this, what they disagree with is that anyone should be given a job on the basis of gender or ethnic minority based on 'quotas', (to attempt to promote equality) and not the abilities that you mention that are relevant to the job.

What does 'fairly clear that women in Thailand are exploited in almost every area' mean, there's plenty of non-exploited women In Thailand, what do you mean by area? And whilst this thread is about 'senior management', I think other posters commenting on equal opportunities at all 'levels' of employment is a fair argument.

[Deeral]

Child labour the cutting edge????

Really?

I would take the Oz pm's view on women in the workplace.......

I believe that if a woman has the intellectual, psychological and or physical ability to do a job, she shouldn't be denied that on the basis of gender.

Especially by legislation!

I think that it is fairly clear that women in Thailand are exploited in almost every area.......looking for a stat like the OP above is meaningless.....a bit like the Sun UK paper posting headlines such as "UK HOTTER THEN MUMBAI" - oh yes, right.......for one hour on one day when Mumbai is having a cold snap!

And no-one in this thread disagrees with this, what they disagree with is that anyone should be given a job on the basis of gender or ethnic minority based on 'quotas', (to attempt to promote equality) and not the abilities that you mention that are relevant to the job.

What does 'fairly clear that women in Thailand are exploited in almost every area' mean, there's plenty of non-exploited women In Thailand, what do you mean by area? And whilst this thread is about 'senior management', I think other posters commenting on equal opportunities at all 'levels' of employment is a fair argument.

I'm sorry but if you insist on spouting BNP propaganda, I cannot lower myself to discuss the issues on such a simplistic level.

I feel sorry for those who are so limited in comprehension that they feel that the ultra-right has something to offer them and believe this naive claptrap.

[trevorg]

Child labour the cutting edge????

Really?

I would take the Oz pm's view on women in the workplace.......

I believe that if a woman has the intellectual, psychological and or physical ability to do a job, she shouldn't be denied that on the basis of gender.

Especially by legislation!

I think that it is fairly clear that women in Thailand are exploited in almost every area.......looking for a stat like the OP above is meaningless.....a bit like the Sun UK paper posting headlines such as "UK HOTTER THEN MUMBAI" - oh yes, right.......for one hour on one day when Mumbai is having a cold snap!

And no-one in this thread disagrees with this, what they disagree with is that anyone should be given a job on the basis of gender or ethnic minority based on 'quotas', (to attempt to promote equality) and not the abilities that you mention that are relevant to the job.

What does 'fairly clear that women in Thailand are exploited in almost every area' mean, there's plenty of non-exploited women In Thailand, what do you mean by area? And whilst this thread is about 'senior management', I think other posters commenting on equal opportunities at all 'levels' of employment is a fair argument.

I'm sorry but if you insist on spouting BNP propaganda, I cannot lower myself to discuss the issues on such a simplistic level.

I feel sorry for those who are so limited in comprehension that they feel that the ultra-right has something to offer them and believe this naive claptrap.

What makes you think that it's BNP propaganda or that I'm ultra-right. I agree that it's not a simple issue, but I think that you are the one who's making 'simplistic' generalisations and then accusing (and insulting)everyone who has made valid points as being either ignorant, stupid or politically affilliated. Every situation is different, whether it be country, town, religion, culture. I believe that everybody should be given equal opportunities for education, health etc, but we all live in different places, with different national, local and family economies and different situations and cultures. I can't believe that you flamed me for agreeing with you! Never mind!

[Deeral]

you're not presenting an argument and you don't even realise it - You are regurgitating old BNP-style cliches about "minorities" (women of course are not a minority) getting benefits that you as a WASP etc can't.the sad thing is you've presented it it at all.

End of.

[trevorg]

This happens in every topic the poster gets involved in. Every single one. She must have a difficult life.

I see exactly what you mean! I've been continued to be insulted without a response to the points where I agreed about equal opportunities, just jumped on me again. End of? End of what?

[Wallaby]

This happens in every topic the poster gets involved in. Every single one. She must have a difficult life.

I see exactly what you mean! I've been continued to be insulted without a response to the points where I agreed about equal opportunities, just jumped on me again. End of? End of what?

The end of Deeral's prescription maybe?

[naiharn]

It's amazing that this figure of 45% of senior Thai management being female can be

put out, and so many people just accept it. The skeptic in me is

awakened: Over the years I have seen

many fanciful surveys done by Thais in an effort to boost the prestige of their

country. Usually when you dig a bit deeper you find the stats are rubbish.

I didn't see anything like 45% of females at the top when I used to work in Thai companies. But

maybe things have changed? So I did a quick check of some big Thai companies:

bangkok bank 12 out of 56 - top 16 are all male

http://www.bangkokba...2006/60-72e.pdf

Choroen Pokphand Foods PCL

1 female out of top 15 (on board)

Siam Commercial Bank: 3 females out of 16 on board

http://www2.scb.co.t...rector?option=7

Siam Cement -

management group: 0 out of 8 are female

board of directors: 0 out of 12 are female

http://www.scg.co.th...f_director.html

-------------------------------------------

Totals: 4 female out of 56 at board level: 7.1%

and overall, 16 females out of 107 at senior level: 15%

Does that sound like 45%? What a joke!

[Berkshire]

Over the years I have seen many fanciful surveys done by Thais in an effort to boost the prestige of their

country.

From the OP: "Research by business consultant Grant Thornton has found that the number of women holding senior management positions in Australian privately held businesses has grown 4 per cent since 2009."

So how on Earth would you read that the Thais did this survey? Do you routinely just make crap up to make a point?

[naiharn]

Over the years I have seen many fanciful surveys done by Thais in an effort to boost the prestige of their

country.

From the OP: "Research by business consultant Grant Thornton has found that the number of women holding senior management positions in Australian privately held businesses has grown 4 per cent since 2009."

So how on Earth would you read that the Thais did this survey? Do you routinely just make crap up to make a point?

I was not referring to the number of women in senior management in Australia, I was referring to the claim that 45% of senior management in Thailand were women. The original article does not say where that figure came from. I think it's a reasonable guess that it came from a survey conducted in Thailand by Thais.

If you have evidence to the contrary, please show it.

Do you not find that figure of 45% (the highest in the world!) very strange? Please show me a few big companies in Thailand where that figure applies. Go on ... surprise me!

[GreenSnapper]

It makes no sense to count women in top positions and compare with men.

In Thailand, women can get top positions if they work as hard as men. This needs efforts and 99% of men don't reach top positions either.

This discussion is the typical western BS where it is believed that everything should be same in regard to gender.

Women and men are very different and that's the reason more men work at construction sites and in top management. Most women don't want to work hard.

[zzaa09]

This happens in every topic the poster gets involved in. Every single one. She must have a difficult life.

I see exactly what you mean! I've been continued to be insulted without a response to the points where I agreed about equal opportunities, just jumped on me again. End of? End of what?

The end of Deeral's prescription maybe?

Yes. Seems to be the case. For a number of months now.

[Berkshire]

I think it's a reasonable guess that it came from a survey conducted in Thailand by Thais.

Reasonable guess? More like wild conjecture to me. You sound like another Thai basher who's already made up his mind. As I mentioned earlier, if the survey had been the opposite and negative towards Thailand, you would not be questioning the authenticity of the findings, would you? Rather, you'd be jumping on the bandwagon with these other rabid bashers and trashing the Thais for not offering equal rights to women.

Well I've worked in both industry and academia in Thailand and from my experience, it's pretty clear that Thai women are well represented in the highest levels of both private and governmental organizations. Did I count the numbers? No. Am I certain that the 45% figure is 100% accurate? No. But based on my personal observations, they wouldn't be far from the truth. But don't worry, I'm sure there are other things about Thailand that you can complain about.

[naiharn]

I think it's a reasonable guess that it came from a survey conducted in Thailand by Thais.

Reasonable guess? More like wild conjecture to me. You sound like another Thai basher who's already made up his mind. As I mentioned earlier, if the survey had been the opposite and negative towards Thailand, you would not be questioning the authenticity of the findings, would you?

Rather, you'd be jumping on the bandwagon with these other rabid bashers and trashing the Thais for not offering equal rights to women.

Would I? How could you possibly know? Sounds like you are the one engaging in 'wild conjecture'!

Well I've worked in both industry and academia in Thailand and from my experience, it's pretty clear that Thai women are well represented in the highest levels of both private and governmental organizations. Did I count the numbers? No. Am I certain that the 45% figure is 100% accurate? No. But based on my personal observations, they wouldn't be far from the truth.

Care to tell us the names of any of these organisations so we can do a few checks? Oh no! We don't want any of that research and facts nonsense! Like I said before (a suggestion you've predicably ignored), show me a few big Thai organisations with anything like this 45% figure - that is the way to convince me - not by droning on about 'Thai bashers' and 'my personal observations'.

[naiharn]

The survey in the original article claims that Thailand's female participation in senior management is way above Australia's. (In fact way above every other country.)

Berkshire's indisputable personal observations aside, it's not easy to find any corroborating evidence for this.

Fortunately one measure of female participation at high levels in society is available, and no survey is required: female participation in the highest levels of Government.

Australia (2009): 68 MPs out of 226 = 30% female participation. Currently Governor General, at least one Governor, the Prime Minister and a state Premier are female. Numerous council mayors are female. It's interesting that the 30% figure is so close to the 27% figure for female senior management in the survey.

http://www.aph.gov.a...efs/brief03.htm

Now lets look at Thailand, where (in 2005) we had just 1 female governor out of 76, 1 cabinet minister out of 36, and only 10% MPs female.

http://en.wikipedia....rty#cite_note-1

By 2010 the figure for MPs had crept up to about 13%. http://data.un.org/D...countryID%3A764

Now perhaps just perhaps, it is only in government that females are so under-represented in Thailand. In business they do much better?

Yes, of course, that's it!

[Berkshire]

Would I? How could you possibly know?

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

Care to tell us the names of any of these organisations so we can do a few checks?

You want some proof to back the claims made by Grant Thornton? Why don't you contact Grant Thornton yourself and ask THEM where they got that figure? This is becoming tedious. No matter what I or anyone else comes up with, you're not going to believe it. So why bother. Believe what you want to believe, no big deal to me. Really.

[naiharn]

So still nothing to back it up with. Thanks for confirming.

What would satisfy you as far as "backing up" is concerned? Are you looking for a CNN article or should we join each other on a Melbourne Saturday night?

edit: Anyhow, here's what 10 seconds of Googling could come up up with. Maybe a 30 second search could come up with more.

http://www.3aw.com.a...00104-lpmr.html

This article is about an Indian student who was murdered in Melbourne. Some people thought it was a race-motivated attack. The police were savaged by articles like this one for refusing to accept that theory.

Quote from the article:

Another young Indian man Nitin Garg lost his life on the weekend as he made his way to work at Hungry Jack's in West Footscray.

Police, along with Acting Premier Rob Hulls, have been telling us that this latest murder is not race related.

How the Police and the Acting Premier can come to this conclusion is beyond comprehension really.

No-one has been arrested for the murder and the reasoning behind this senseless waste of a life rests with the murderer who at this stage is unknown.

How anyone can say it is not race related when they do not know the circumstances of the murder as I said earlier is difficult to comprehend.

What I do know though is that this abusive, violent, murderous behaviour towards Indians in this country is far too prevalent to suggest that we do not have a problem with racism in this country.

It turns out the police were right, it was NOT a race-related attack. How do I know? the murderer plead guilty to the crime in court yesterday, and explained the motive behind the crime: the theft of a flashy mobile phone. Of course the crime was still hideous, but it was not race-related. The police also produced figures showing Indians were no more likely to be victims of violence than anyone else, and in some of the cases, the culprits turned out to be Indians!

http://www.theaustra...f-1226042459937

[naiharn]

Care to tell us the names of any of these organisations so we can do a few checks?

You want some proof to back the claims made by Grant Thornton?

No, the claims made by you.

Why don't you contact Grant Thornton yourself and ask THEM where they got that figure? This is becoming tedious. No matter what I or anyone else comes up with, you're not going to believe it. So why bother. Believe what you want to believe, no big deal to me. Really.

translation:

"I'll just ignore the fact that the survey's claim about Thailand is totally out-of-kilter with the reality obvious to anyone who has worked in the Thai business world, I'll just ignore all the easily found data on the Internet, I won't backup the claims I made, and I'll go on believing this nonsense, and disparage anyone who doesn't."

[WebBangkok]

really funny............

Some responses from members remind me of a few randoms I have met in the pubs.