Tourist Deaths In Chiang Mai Just A ‘Coincidence’

[craigt3365]

One off topic post deleted.

[happysanook]

2 heart attacks within minutes... and an unexplained death next door of a girl....

waiting for the coroner's report to let us know the 23 yr old girl died of a coincidental heart attack too..

[asiawatcher]

I was a cop, a detective at that, and I've met a fair share of Thai "detectives" in the last few years.Spent hours talking with them.

Simply put, they generally possess a total lack of even rudimentary training and couldn't detect an elephant in a life raft.

So, in many cases, it's not that they are "covering something up," it's that they lack the skills, techniques, experience and facilities to uncover anything. Therefore it is easier to claim it a coincidence than to admit they are stymied, and are clueless as to what to do next.

It's more the old "saving face" thing than mai pen rai.

Without even speaking to any so called detective, i have to agree with you.

I do not think there even is a police academy or detective school, i do not think they have forensic labs, if they do, i doubt its well equipped or even equipped at all(just look at police stations and police vehicles, including bikes)

Autopsy cost money(which again they do not have or do not want to spend) and again may not have properly trained staff, just look at public hospitals, some docs can not even diagnose appendix.

So its no alternative but to declare every death as suicide or accident, unless its so clear, that they simply can not make such a statement, but then the killers are hardly every found,unless police is tipped off

Agree with both but you would think bodies would need to be repatriated to their homes and real autopsies conducted with absolute conclusions? This is not a country where, to die by misfortune, puts the remaining family at peace. They never will be not knowing how their loved ones died and yes the mai pen rai attitude screams out as another thorn in the Thai justice system. As for the common factor of the hotel - steer clear.

[featography]

At the press conference at Chiang Mai police headquarters today Chiang Mai Governor Pannada Disakul tried to allay fears of tourists caused by the four deaths in one hotel last month by saying: "We have to admit that these deaths coming one after another, are nothing more than coincidence. We have done and will continue to do our utmost to make tourists confident in our city."

I was hoping that they would say that they would do their utmost to find out what the tourists died of...

2 words;

1) Incompetence police and medical

2) Freon cause of deaths

[LomSak27]

Well you are going to need damage control even for things that MAY not be related ... once you have already swept under the carpet things that are related.

See "Phi Phi Death riddle"

[Deeral]

Perception of what is and isn't coincidence an be very misleading. Thai police are no more adept at recognising coincidence than anyone else - in fact probably less so.

Whatever the case it is quite clear that the Thai authorities have handled this affair very badly.

They have shown themselves to be callous and incompetent.

As for a "cover up" - it depends on what you mean by this.I would say that in true Thai fashion the main aim og=f the police has been to "make the matter go away"So they have played down every aspect of it, ignored any respected processes of dealing with the evidence and the bodies and now expect that by saying it was a "coincidence" the matter will end.

they fail to grasp that whereas locals may still accept their word as gospel without question foreigners and tourists do not.

Their was a case on Phi Phi a while back of multiple deaths and the amount of rubbish spoken to divert any blame from the hotel was astounding.

I think a lot of people underestimate the will amongst local authorities to "make things go away" - they will cover up lose, fudge, do whatever it takes to divert blame from themselves or local influential businessmen.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Deeral

[happysanook]

"Samples taken from the other two New Zealand women, he said, had also proved inconclusive, and the Thai authorities had demanded money for the costs of further tests. "

classic...

[kirk0233]

Some more information from Australia Network news

Thai police pressed on mystery tourist deaths

Created: Tue, 8 Mar07:46:55 UTC+0700 2011

Simon Santow

Last Updated: 22 hours 14 minutes ago

Pressure is mounting on Thai authorities to explain the mysterious deaths of four people staying at the same hotel at popular tourist destination Chiang Mai.

A New Zealander backpacker, a retired British couple and a Thai tourist guide all died after staying at the Downtown Inn at Chiang Mai in the north of the country.

The deaths happened in the space of two weeks last month and authorities are under pressure from the families of the dead and from the tourist industry to explain what locals describe as a "strange coincidence".

Chiang Mai in the mountainous north of Thailand is a favourite destination for tourists, attracting backpackers as well as a more upmarket clientele of all ages.

Sarah Carter, 23, took a short trip there from New Zealand last month with two of her friends.

About one week into their three-week holiday all three women came down with what appeared to be severe food poisoning.

Ms Carter's father, Richard, says the three ended up in intensive care at a local hospital.

The mystery illness quickly attacked their hearts, and for Ms Carter it proved to be fatal.

She died in hospital on February 6.

The young women had first shown signs of distress in their rooms at the Downtown Inn but they had not dined there.

The day before they were struck down with the mysterious illness, a Thai tourist guide, aged in her 40s, had died in an adjacent hotel room.

"It's a reasonable quality hotel - by our standards probably at least two or three-star - and things seemed quite clean and well run," Mr Carter said.

He says it is impossible to draw conclusions at this stage, but he is worried authorities are not taking the matter seriously enough.

"There are other deaths that have been discovered in the same hotel; one in the room next to my daughter's, another British couple in a room below my daughter's," he said.

"But there is a small chance that could be coincidence because there are now other deaths being reported, now that the story has gotten out, of other people in other parts of Thailand being hit with the same thing."

Speculation

Winai Junsiri is a representative of the business group that owns the Downtown Inn.

On a scratchy line from Chiang Mai he told The World Today it is important to wait for the police and other authorities to complete their investigations.

He would not speculate on the reasons for the deaths but did say he was certain there was no problem with the hotel's air-conditioning system.

"Not at all. I think the air conditioners we have are good air conditioners," he said.

As news of the mysterious deaths circulates, tourists are staying away from the area.

Mr Winai says the downturn is affecting local businesses.

Back in Auckland, Mr Carter is impatient for answers.

He says it is almost beyond belief the deaths could be a coincidence.

"We're just asking for a full and open investigation into firstly the cause of death, the cause of the illness to the other girls, and any connection to the other deaths in that hotel," he said.

"Lastly, if there is a connection between them then [there must be] a thorough investigation into the rooms of that hotel to get to the root of the cause.

"Only insofar as it seems beyond coincidence that there should be three deaths or four in rooms adjacent to each other over a very short period of time... and I just hope we can get some answers for the benefit of all travellers to Thailand.

"I believe generally it's a safe and clean environment, but when incidents like this happen then you've got to question the risk involved and whether you think it's really worth going."

[softgeorge]

I guess they couldn't write them all off as suicide so let's stamp it coincidence. Case solved now who want's a whiskey. Cause of death "coincidence" I hope coincidence is not easily transmitted b/w humans.

[dunkin2012]

If the foods they, Foreigners took were poisoning why there is only one local, a tourist guide died. Or there are many more cases have not been informed. I am trying to make sense.

[geovalin]

Too much "phi", the building will be razed.

[backsoon]

Cover up or no cover up, there is no way would I ever stay at the Doomtown Downtown Inn.

The place should be officially closed down until a positive convincing report has been published regarding these suspicious deaths.

OH, MY GOD!

I have just realised, I stayed in a Downtown Inn in Phuket.

Please, somebody, tell me I'm alive...

But it's no use, too late anyway... They made my wife pay 400Bt for a cheap, low quality bath towel, because it was soiled with her black hair colour paint. I told her not to pay, but she did. When we came back home, she washed it out completely.

Anyone wants a s/h low quality bath towel?

[SICHONSTEVE]

I think we'd better send for James Bond!!!!! I think he can be found living on an Island in Thailand named after him!!!!

[Robroy]

About time a newspaper -Thai, foreign or both - took this up.

[dunkin2012]

I think we'd better send for James Bond!!!!! I think he can be found living on an Island in Thailand named after him!!!!

This ain't a joke for the sake of the deaths. Try not to be amused..dude.

[PingManDan]

Yes very coincedental, it happens almost every week, many tourist die in same hotel, what the phook

[SICHONSTEVE]

We (my wife, mum and I) are contemplating going to Ching Mai later in the month for a couple of weeks and even if it was free, I know where we WON'T be staying!!!!! - coincidence or not as they so ludicrously claim!! Statistically speaking the chances of this number of people dying in the same hotel of unknown causes in such a short space of time (remember 3 out of the 5 fatalities were young or young(ish) people) is akin to that of winning the lottery although what happened to them is very much at the other end of the 'chok dee' spectrum, unfortunately for the poor souls!!!

[elshaheen]

Tourist deaths in Chiang Mai just a ‘coincidence’

Death is not a ‘coincidence’. It does not happen just by accident and never will. Even when it happens in the same room.

[AllanB]

For a third world country Thailand is pretty safe, but this is a third world country, where the police are a waste of space, so you have to watch out for yourself.

I would never book a cheap hotel before I had seen it, nor would I eat at a place that looked iffy, nor venture into an area that looked unsafe. If I did any of these things, realising my mistake, I would walk away very quickly and always find a better alternative.

I make the assuption that the police are there as a visual deterent to crime... and nothing more. In the same way that shop assistants are a visual deterent to shoplifting.... and nothing more.

The only thing that is of help is this sort of website, now I know not to stay in a Downtown Inn in Phuket.

Maybe we need a full blacklist directory to consult, "A tourist guide to avoiding death.."

[JohnBKKK]

It is really simple, considering the cost of repatriating the bodies to the UK, the cops are pretty sure that they will be cremated here, so no autopsy in the UK - no evidence and Khun Nop can spend his time with his mia noi instead of actually working and finding out what is behind those deaths. ow, I'm not saying that he could, even if he wanted to ....

The only time they actually do something is when a Thai of high profile happens to shoot himself in the back of his/her head - high profile meaning money and a big family that would stirr up a shit-storm ....

Thais do not become policemen because they are eager to work for the community ... more to fleece the community and do as little work as possible ... no western police force would consider this a coincident ...

Edited March 9, 2011 by JohnBKKK

[anterian]

Cyanide has a distinctive smell (raw almonds), also death from cyanide gives a cyanotic tinge to the skin.

One thing is clear, no virus or bacterium acts that fast, it has to be either a toxin in their food or water, or a gas. Carbon monoxide has been suggested but there is no mention of the typical bluish cyanotic skin colour from Carbon monoxide poisoning, and what would be its source?.

Is the aircon individual to the rooms or is there a ducted central installation.

Cooked PVC (insulation) gives off very toxic gases, so do many industrial cleaning fluids.

Very new vinyl plastic furniture also gives of toxic vapours in sunlight. You can notice it when you get into a new car.

All of these gases/vapours are heavier than air and would build up at floor level. The human nose adjusts to most smells after about 3 minutes.

So my guess is they walked in, notice a strange smell, which they associate with new furniture, get a headache after a while, so lie down into a deeper gas concentration, become unconscious and die.

http://www.epa.gov/ttnatw01/hlthef/vinylchl.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/13/local/me-showercurtain13

http://www.brighthub.com/environment/green-living/articles/50901.aspx

[Ulysses G.]

Whatever it is, it is very unlikely that it is just a coincidence.

[Neonben]

A coincidence.

Interesting documentary on History channel the other day titled "Race and Intelligence".

[chmiroau]

Mai Pen Rai. You will hear it many times before you get out of Thailand, often when something goes wrong or someone looses their cool "or dies of unknown causes". This simple phrase sums up life in Thailand and the attitude there in general. There are lots of different opinions on the direct translation, but it literally means "no worries" or "its nothing".

Just to clarify - one can hear the phrase just a little too often!

Sure, this is probably the biggest problem that the Thai's have by far.

It seems that no matter what the problem the simple solution is to say mai pen rai. It is my personal belief that this has come about because of a law that say you are not allowed to say anything bad about a certain person, or people that have a higher ranking than you. (Hope that quote doesn't get me kicked off this site) This is very apparent when talking about the BIB. Don't ever say anything bad publicly about them, or you will feel the wrong kind of weight fall on your head.

Another posting in today's Thai Visa brief states that the only way forward for Thai democracy is honesty. Seriously, what a f%$^ing farce that is. In a country when the above is common place, and you can't say anything bad, even if you are being honest, how can a true democracy survive?

This then leads to a horrible consequence, and that is that if anybody does something bad, no one will say anything about it, so the bad person wins. In Thailand crime does pay and sometimes it pays very well.

There is a flip side to all this. It also seems that the Thais rarely say anything good about each other, especially straight to each others faces. I wonder if anyone else has noticed this?

[Emster23]

regarding detective "work" and results: if you don't dig anything up, you don't have to cover it up later.... More efficient!

[msg362]

Nothing in life is a coincidence. We write off chance meetings as coincidence. Things are meant to happen and there is a reason for everything, good or bad.

You can't be serious!

[khaowong1]

Coincidence that four people died in the same Hotel? within days of each other?

And two died within minutes of each other from Heart Attacks,Unbelievable.

More like: yet another cover up to protect Thai Tourism!

It goes On and On,Week after Week,Month after Month,Year on Year,.......ad infinitum.

Ad Nauseum

[khaowong1]

A coincidence.

Interesting documentary on History channel the other day titled "Race and Intelligence".

Will you be able to shed some light on this subject. I know it's a political no-no.

[chmiroau]

A coincidence.

Interesting documentary on History channel the other day titled "Race and Intelligence".

Saw the show and the one glaring fact is that intelligence grows with the need for it to grow.

This means that when a community progresses, so must their intelligence. If you hold down a community, lets say by using financial oppression, then the intelligence does not need to grow.

Humans are born with the largest developed brain of all animals, according to the relative size of their body. This brain is not completely wired up, and needs stimulation to become the best it can be. Although there are physiological restraints caused genetically, this does not account for the huge disparity found in this country. It is my belief that this disparity is caused by the fact that so many people here in Thailand live well below any poverty line across the world, and as such do not have the stimulation needed to develop their brain to it's fullest potential. Can this problem be fixed?

I am interested in any intelligent comments, please post.

[dunkin2012]

Statistically, there is a connection with Downtown inn and the deaths. The independent variable is X used to test against Y, dependent variable from my knowledge. one of the independent variables, Xs is Downtown Inn. They must be clear about the connection with Downtown Inn first before move on to other independent variables then.