Britain To Crackdown On UK Child-Abuse Offenders In Thailand

[sirchai]

emmigration services in both countries have some job to do - like asking why the person is comimg often to thailand (and refusing entry, if something is not right), why is extending their visa or what was doing in thailand on his visit. There are tell tell signs why somebody is travelling if you watch carefully. The extreme measure is to check luggage and laptop by customs (happens in the usa) for pictures.

the process of selection can start already in consulates issuing visas, at least to compare with police database. Short interviews can be done, if needed, as they are done for thai applying for visas to the uk.

thai, when applying to move or work abroad, are required to present their clean police record - similar can be required by thai consulates and emmigration offices.

also police in both countries can watch out for those on the database and their international movements.

certainly there is a lot to do on thai side, including educational programs and rising social awareness of the problem

Evectional services in boosted countries got some more jobs. Similar to asking people why they'd like to spend their money in Soi cowboy. (And refueling entry, because all isn't right), while extending him/hers visa and why the reason for is what was doing in Somaliland. There are say say signals, but not for all nets.

Check extreme mountain climber's luggage and watch their photos on the watchlist. Send photos via email that customs never find them. Let look them in luggage.

Even Thais can apply for a 20 baht police clearance, available at all local copstations. But only if they want to work in bars abroad. Or fool their partner with I love you too much, just to take off with another man, or more.

Even in consulates people can use bathrooms to know each other a little better, for international relationships.

Certainly there's more than a lot to do on Thai side, like to stop eating fermented fish. The Somtam technology should be more improved and the awareness of ridiculous Thai citizens.

With deepest respect, :jap:

Mr. Somtam Somchai

Edited March 11, 2011 by sirchai

[sirchai]

They are not an NGO, they are a police agency.

same same, though different (as long as they get paid for it and the department has its own, dedicated budget).

Police is fun.:jap:

[99BigLad99]

after living in Thailand for ten years I have seen a lot of things and one thing is obvious to me and that is the do gooders that come over to site Thailand as a den of perversion are just after BIG HEADLINES as they dont even scratch the surface with their investigations. Yes non Thai are involved in the sex trade but to such a small degree you would be truly amused, under age is built into the culture here and near the boarders there is a thriving industry going on controlled by people that one would not want to compromise if you want to stay healthy and live long.

In my humble opinion the do gooders would be better placed in their own countries sorting out the problems there in UK there are many just go to any large city and it is in your face in every telephone box, every public toilet and city street corner, some thing like people in glass houses come to mind.

I have seen the raids take place and the very next week it is business as usual,

[KoratFarang]

I dont what it is, but the police around the world and the people in politic are not very clever, when it is about working with thai police.

Why is it that dvd shops in places like the mall can sale child porn, because they pay there tee money.

Why is it when you report child sex to police in your own country about people in people from your country and what they do in thailand and the offender is abel to buy the name of who reportet him. Because you can buy everything in thailand

The only way to deal with countries with alot of coruption is to make santion to the country

[Mugg]

and if a tourist is in a massage parlour and unknowingly has sex with an underage girl who is to blame? Beats me how a European can always judge correctly a 15 year old from a 17 years old and I have been around SE Asia for 30 years.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, might just be a duck..

[robertson468]

"his government had more than 30,000 paedophiles and child-sex offenders on its watchlist, and had enlisted some 50,000 volunteers to disseminate useful information and preventive advice, which has reached up to 7 million people so far"

This is just the UK how about all the other countries too, numbers are staggering but are they real? -very complicated -definitions leave a lot to be desired and if a tourist is in a massage parlour and unknowingly has sex with an underage girl who is to blame? Beats me how a European can always judge correctly a 15 year old from a 17 years old and I have been around SE Asia for 30 years.

An interesting point. When I first came to Thailand My Wife and I started going to one restaurant in particular on a regular basis. The owner and his wife are absolutely charming (except he suports Man U, but there we go). The food is delicious, but we noticed they had a little girl doing the waitressing - she is about four foot ten, very slim and quite reserved, but in a sweet innocent way. The restaurant used to be open quite late and when I got to know the owner better I gently challenged him about employing a little girl in his restaurant and quite often keeping her up until gone midnight. He asked me who was I talking about and when I said "little Ping", he roared with laughter and told me she was 27 years old, was married and had a four year old child. My Wife and I were absolutely dumb struck, we could have sworn she was about eleven or twelve years old. A similar thing happened very recently with another girl we know who has just had a baby. We thought it was her first, but she blushed and laughed and said she was twenty nine years old and had a seven year old son!

I also wonder if paedophilia is more prevalent in the developed Countries than in say developing Countries like Thailand, as one seems to hear very little about it in the local press, or is it a case of the children being less educated in matters of abuse?

[travelmann]

Yeah dont worry about all the other criminals such as the Hua Hin Murderers skipping bail on drugs charges.

[somchai69]

If Thailand was truly interested in attracting the quality tourist, that would not include pedophiles.........

Sorry you do not have a clue.

Quality Tourist in Thailand, means people with money to spend

Do you really think all pedophiles are poor??????

[sausageandmash]

An answer came there none. Strange how people who are wrong never respond. An apology would be nice, especially to all those Thaivisa members from the UK who don't happen to be sex offenders.

From the article: "more than 30,000 paedophiles and child-sex offenders on its watchlist - the UK is not a nation of sex offenders"

Not a nation of sex offenders really??

[somchai69]

The extreme measure is to check luggage and laptop by customs (happens in the usa) for pictures.

Just imagine the queues at Immigration in Swampy if they started doing that.........

It is bad enough already

[jimbeam1]

Very nice holiday for Mr Davies & Mr Gerrish, Thailand, Cambodia & Vietnam. In fact Mr Gerrish was over here last October, liked it so much he thought he would come back again and bring his mate with him.

This is not a UK problem but a Thai one. I was under the Impression that after the Gary Glitter debacle, the uk already had a policy to deal with this type of situation when such people were returned to them?

Sorry but just to go off topic. Wouldn't it be nice if the UK government were to do something about their Nationals that are dying or being killed over here?

jb1

[sunnyrolfe]

If there was such a thing as a watch list for the natives of Isaan sadly the numbers would be much higher. Do you think the Thais will ever control this sickness when it's rife in their own people?

[Maria23]

The problem of pedophily in Thailand should be tackled by the local Thai authorities in the first place. Qustions to be answered are:

Who are those kids who become a victims and what are their family backround?

Why are they hanging out in places where they can easily become victims ... Bars, walking streets in Pattaya or other toursit places, Local internet caffe's, etc..

Why their parrents does not give the proper attention to their kids whereabout's?

What does the education system to educate children in school about such dangers in public places?

....and the list can continue.

I don't consider correct to condemn a nation like UK to be pedophile just becuase a bunch of criminals found Thailand the "perfect spot "for comiting such horrible acts!

But rather the Thai authorities should enfoce laws for child protection education and proper care for those who are not able to take care of their own children.

[wooty]

Bloggers here are so opinionated. Do you remember the famous line from a Clint Eastwood movie? Opinions are like <deleted>: everybody has got one.

[Pops]

If the UK has a list of possible child-sex offenders, this list should be handed over to Thai authorities and if anyone on the list enters Thailand, he or she should be notified that the authorities are aware of them being on this list and that they can expect being closely watched.<br>This would wield out some of the scumbags in an early stage already. <br>Furthermore this should be done by all countries that have registration of child-sex offenders.<br>

[Pops]

Bloggers here are so opinionated. Do you remember the famous line from a Clint Eastwood movie? Opinions are like &lt;deleted&gt;: everybody has got one.

Wooty, that is one thing that blogs are for, sharing ones opinions. This is exactly what you are doing yourself as well, for It seems to me that f.i. you, are pretty opinionated about the bloggers on this site.

[Teddy3943]

The focus of child prostitution should not be on Thailand alone. The countries with a majority of poor people, such as Bangla Desh, India, Cambodja, Vietnam, The Phillipines, Indonesia, Thailand etc should work close together on this subject. There are many steps to take: Education of children and families, identification of pedophile behavior, screening and scanning, special police forces, inproving of the life standard of the poor, cleansing corruption around "hotspots". These actions have to be coordinated, otherwise the problem moves from one spot to another.

[Arkady]

This is all well and good but the vast majority of Thai children abused by paedophiles are abused by Thai offenders, often close relatives or untouchable people with money and influence. Massage parlours have private rooms offering under age girls to their special customers that include senior police and military officers who give them protection in the same way they protect the procurers who provide foreign tourists with under age boys and girls. Efforts by Western governments to deal with their own nationals abroad are just dealing with the symptoms of the problem and allow authorities in Thailand and other developing countries to sit smugly back and blame foreigners, while the root of the problem and their own sex offenders are left largely untouched.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Arkady

[wooty]

Bloggers here are so opinionated. Do you remember the famous line from a Clint Eastwood movie? Opinions are like &lt;deleted&gt;: everybody has got one.

Wooty, that is one thing that blogs are for, sharing ones opinions. This is exactly what you are doing yourself as well, for It seems to me that f.i. you, are pretty opinionated about the bloggers on this site.

You are so right. Thank you for your lecture. I just thought that the topic of child abuse is somewhat more differentiated than some of the opinions shared here might evoke. For starters: How long is a child a child? The age range of child protection is rather wide and goes from birth to 21 in more Western civilized countries, and other civilizations define it by marital status only while disregarding age totally. The Western definition of a pedophile comprises contacts with children in pre-puberty, so again no clear age definition. The media tend to expand the age of protection up to 21 (extraterritorial application of US law) because sex scandals sell. The law enforcement agencies range from strict enforcement of local law to tolerating the business up to being deeply involved. And the NGOs discovered the market and "find" and "disclose" criminal foreigners - never locals - in a happy hunting chase before they are proven guilty in a court of law in order to push their case and help with fundraising; and welcome to the open market of coerction and extortion by the "good" guys. Its a little bit like women divorcing their husbands and crying child abuse! in order to get a better deal.

So, I still think everybody has an opinion.

[Arkady]

Regarding definitions - someone mentioned not being at fault if you can't tell a 15yo from a 17yo.

BE CAREFUL!

The law here is 20 if there is any hint of being a commercial transaction. In practice, I've had local police tell me 18 should be safe enough, but then again I've also seen police involved in blackmail schemes, and one cop's opinion won't help you if you get caught up with the bigger fish. Even in the case of true entrapment, no one will believe that you're the victim, so just avoid any situation where that's a possibility. This is the reality - deal with it.

The true definition of paedophile has nothing to do with it, the idea of statutory rape is being defined internationally as 18+, no matter the local custom.

And yes it is 100% the man's responsibility to know the age of his service provider. If you get deceived, tough cookies - I've run into situations where the girl and even her mother actually didn't know her true age, birthdays just aren't important here to the rural poor. And even if they do know, basically they will tell you what they think you want to hear to get your money (sometimes up, sometimes down). And no of course family selling their under-age girl won't be prosecuted - they will be considered victims by authorities, the only villain is the foreigner. IMO fair enough, but even if you don't agree, tough cookies, that's the reality - deal with it.

If it's not a commercial arrangement, in practice according to local custom, if you have the fully informed consent of the parents, and are genuinely marrying the girl (good Sin Sot of course) then no one local will look at you sideways, but under 18 it is in fact illegal and good luck trying to explain things to any concerned authorities, Thai or international.

The 1999 Prostitution Act made it a criminal offence to have sex with a minor under the age of 18 in exchange for remuneration and in a place of prostitution (not defined). The prostitute, herself or himself, is only criminally culpable if they cause a nuisance in a public place but procurers and brothel keepers are criminally responsible.

Under the Penal Code sex with a minor with or without remuneration and in any location, except in certain circumstances, is legally regarded as statutory rape. The term "minor" is not specifically defined anywhere in the Penal Code but the courts have regularly interpreted the age of majority in this and other contexts as the age that children have to obtain an ID card boys change their title from "Dekchai" to "Nai" which is 15.

The exception under the Penal Code is that sex below the age of 15 is permitted, if the minor is engaged to be married with his or her parents' consent and has sex with his or her fiance or fiancee. Marriage below the age of 15 requires an order from a family court which has usually been given even in the case of massive age differences, if the parents consent.

The age of 20 doesn't come into any of these laws which are available in translation for all to study, should they disagree. The confusion probably comes from laws or regulations governing sale of alcohol and entering entertainment places as a customer (employees only need to be 18). I agree that no excuse regarding perceptions of the age of the girl or boy can be accepted under either law and customers can be duped into having sex with under age girls and even deliberately entrapped for blackmail purposes. Under age sex workers are usually instructed by their employers to lie about their age for obvious reasons and many have fake ID cards or the ID of an older sibling or relative who reported it missing and got a new one to help her "nong" earn some extra money for the family. The implication is, "when in doubt, leave her or him alone and move on", if you want to stay safe.

It is more difficult to obtain prosecutions under the Prostitution Act because it requires evidence of remuneration and that the offence took place in a place of prostitution. Of the high profile cases that have been reported since 1999, including the notorious case of the Deputy Senate Speaker who is serving 16 years in prison for statutory rape, the convictions have tended to be successful under the Penal Code which provides for more severe penalties, while prosecutions under the Prostitution Act involving 15 - 17 year olds have tended to fail for lack of evidence. However, this is not something TV members should put to the test!

Edited March 11, 2011 by Arkady

[Arkady]

after living in Thailand for ten years I have seen a lot of things and one thing is obvious to me and that is the do gooders that come over to site Thailand as a den of perversion are just after BIG HEADLINES as they dont even scratch the surface with their investigations. Yes non Thai are involved in the sex trade but to such a small degree you would be truly amused, under age is built into the culture here and near the boarders there is a thriving industry going on controlled by people that one would not want to compromise if you want to stay healthy and live long.

In my humble opinion the do gooders would be better placed in their own countries sorting out the problems there in UK there are many just go to any large city and it is in your face in every telephone box, every public toilet and city street corner, some thing like people in glass houses come to mind.

I have seen the raids take place and the very next week it is business as usual,

Yes, but it is boring for the farang police to deal with their own crime when they can get trips to holiday destinations at the taxpayers' expense and do something that will grab headlines at home without having to do any hard work themselves or take any personal risks. It is great for the Thai authorities too, as they appear to be doing something too but the cost of the prosecution and incarceration is borne by the farang taxpayers. Really both sides should concentrate on dealing with crime on their patches, boring though that might be. As soon as the criminal is deported for trial at home the Thai police involved will be back having a drink with the mafia bosses that facilitated the crime in the first place as well doing under age children themselves. So the problem continues with only a small dent. Despite the gratifying headlines for both sides, nothing meaningful is achieved to protect the nation's children.

[alantheembalmer]

In other words, Thai bashing!

Nonce sense.

Anyone who exposes a criminal deserves praise rather than castigation.

I take it the pun was intentional?

[sunnyrolfe]

This is all well and good but the vast majority of Thai children abused by paedophiles are abused by Thai offenders, often close relatives or untouchable people with money and influence. Massage parlours have private rooms offering under age girls to their special customers that include senior police and military officers who give them protection in the same way they protect the procurers who provide foreign tourists with under age boys and girls. Efforts by Western governments to deal with their own nationals abroad are just dealing with the symptoms of the problem and allow authorities in Thailand and other developing countries to sit smugly back and blame foreigners, while the root of the problem and their own sex offenders are left largely untouched.

Absolutely nail on the head here, Good post. Just like all the PC naive backpackers think if there were no Farangs coming to the girlie bars there would be no sex trade in Thailand. Because the Khao San Rd Lonely Planet types would never dream of the horrors inflicted on young people by their own people here. Well it's not on public display as the beer bar trade.

[spaceinvader]

emmigration services in both countries have some job to do - like asking why the person is comimg often to thailand (and refusing entry, if something is not right), why is extending their visa or what was doing in thailand on his visit. There are tell tell signs why somebody is travelling if you watch carefully. The extreme measure is to check luggage and laptop by customs (happens in the usa) for pictures.

Ever thought about a career as a politician? I don't think the answer is to treat everyone like a paedophile, people are getting very tired of the guilty until proven innocent approach.

Lets not take any inspiration from the USA, its a very messed up nation.

[DaiHard]

This is a PR exercise by CEOP who are under threat of closure in June this year primarily because, despite their massive funding,

they have been an utter failure. So they're obviously going round the world trying to drum up support to try and force the UK government's

hand so they can stay open and enjoy the lavish pay and perks of their non-job.

The Thai police are quite capable of managing pedophiles and Interpol regularly sends them watch lists of known (and suspect)

offenders and local Thai people regularly report suspicious behavior leading to arrests.

To be perfectly frank I am furious at the implication that Brits - in fact any English speaking white male - only come here because they're pervs.

[MAJIC]

I'm sorry I just find that accusation SO offensive!!!!!

It is very offensive and just gives the Brit Bashers some ammunition,

sad people,but at least we are seen to be doing something! about this Horrific Crime.

And I doubt their own Governments will open their Countries,Child Abuse,Pandora's Box ,

its easier to hide and throw the Muck at others.

[Pieter1964]

emmigration services in both countries have some job to do - like asking why the person is comimg often to thailand (and refusing entry, if something is not right), why is extending their visa or what was doing in thailand on his visit. There are tell tell signs why somebody is travelling if you watch carefully. The extreme measure is to check luggage and laptop by customs (happens in the usa) for pictures.

the process of selection can start already in consulates issuing visas, at least to compare with police database. Short interviews can be done, if needed, as they are done for thai applying for visas to the uk.

thai, when applying to move or work abroad, are required to present their clean police record - similar can be required by thai consulates and emmigration offices.

also police in both countries can watch out for those on the database and their international movements.

certainly there is a lot to do on thai side, including educational programs and rising social awareness of the problem

there have to be done a lot indeed, but the most in thailand, some of the pimps are policemen them selves, because there day time jobs dont give them enough money.

a check on the airport for the laptop or luggage is only for the real stupid people, as many of the hotels have free internet on the room and many appartments also have internet, a non stupid idiot can setup a vpn connection very easy to home or somewhere on the internet and dump all te files there and delete them om the HD of the LT, only needed is a small laptop with only a connection.

the rest is stored on the internet. the option is one which will anoy many people and wont get many hits, and it will cost too uch effort and time.

asking what I come do in thailand when I arrive alone there, you can give any answer.

it is very hard to find someone who dont want to be found, they always have the best answers ready

awareness with the poor people that there children are not good to be sold is more important.

but working in the fields get them 200 maybe 300bath a day while renting their kid will get them up to 5.000 a day.easy.

dont think I im interested in these things, please not, I have a good thia wife and living half the time in my home country and the other half in thailand. and my god, if I see one doing it, he better get running very fast because I will kill him.

for that the law in thai is better then europe, I dont think I will get too much jailtime for doing that

for money you can get everything in thailand, because all the police are very corrupt

a drive vrom bkk to sakon nakon cost me 500 bath extra because I drive to fast, well that is what they say many times.

[hardy1943]

This is all well and good but the vast majority of Thai children abused by paedophiles are abused by Thai offenders, often close relatives or untouchable people with money and influence. Massage parlours have private rooms offering under age girls to their special customers that include senior police and military officers who give them protection in the same way they protect the procurers who provide foreign tourists with under age boys and girls. Efforts by Western governments to deal with their own nationals abroad are just dealing with the symptoms of the problem and allow authorities in Thailand and other developing countries to sit smugly back and blame foreigners, while the root of the problem and their own sex offenders are left largely untouched.

You are so right. Thais make big money in border towns to supply anyone with under age girls or boys. I live in Chiang Rai and was approached in Mae Sai with even my Thai wife next to me, Burma 14-15 year old virgin

40,000 Baht for one night or anything else I was interested in. All supplied by Thai middle men. These people are just as guilty as any sex offender. Everyone involved in the under age sex trade with children should have

a tattoo put on there forehead "I am a sex offender" so everyone should be able to see. Actually the all belong in prison for life.

[reason1]

Report: World's Youngest Grandmother Is 23

from The Daily Beast - Cheat Sheet

Here's something you don't see every day. At just 23 years of age, Rifca Stanescu of Investi, Romania, is the world's youngest grandmother, according to The Sun. Rifca married jewelry salesman Ionel Stanescu when she was 11 and he was 13

[reason1]

Pattaya, Chon Buri - A 66-year-old Norwegian man was arrested here Monday afternoon for having allegedly bought sex service from a 17-year-old girl.Acting on tip-off, police raided the K2M Apartment in Pattaya and found Karstein Abrahamsen naked inside a room with the girl The Nation

Edited March 11, 2011 by reason1