Isaan Land Prices

[jamescollister]

I rent a house for 6k baht per month. That's 70k baht per year. House would cost 2 mil baht to buy.

If I buy in this illogical enviroment it would take me more than 20 years to make a profit renting the house.

When this real estate and currency bubble bursts I will consider buying land for the kids.

It will burst. Always does.

Exactly the same mathematics in Brisbane, for example. My brother has been living there for many years.

ALSO: With the slogan "they are not making any more land", a zillion of people in the US have been lured into the Real-Estate- Boom.

What happened in the meantime, we all know and I don't have to go into detail.

The thing is just: Real-Estate booms can last for decades, before any sort of "washout" takes place. As opposed to Stock / Bond / Commodity booms. Those booms usually have a shorter "cycle-life".

So, it would be of crucial importance to right-guess at what stage the current real-estate-boom in Thailand is. = At the beginning, in the middle or in the "mature-stage" of the boom?

Your guess will probably be as good as mine. HeHe.

Cheers.

Have to disagree on the boom and bust in urban housing as a comparison to farm land prices. Brisbane or any other small to medium city land prices are set by the availability of land to build homes, but compare the price of house land to farmlands across the road. Near Geelong where I came from a house block is $200,000 for less than 1/4 acre. Farm land is the same area is about $1500 an arce. I see the increase in land prices in Issan a more of a correction, the land was undervalued. Add to that the investment in inferstructure. When aI came here it took 7 hours to drive over pothole roads and goat tracks to get to my village. Now with new roads it's under 2, This then allows farmers to get there produce to market, which means more money and thus there land can return more profit. Which of course makes it more valuable. As I said in an earlier post, it all comes down to Dollars. Jim

[Gary A]

My wife has bought land priced from 18,000 baht per rai up to 170,000 baht per rai. She gave 100,000 baht for a very low (three meters below the road) one rai plot. I thought she was crazy. Her sister begged her to sell it to her and she did. She sold it for the same price. Her sister and husband are both Thai.

Across the road from the two rai she just bought for 170,000 baht per rai is a one rai plot with lumyai trees. The asking price is 500,000 baht. The owner won't budge on his price. I have come to the conclusion that land is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

A few months ago my wife found six rai for 60,000 baht per rai. (no water or electricity) She wanted me to help her buy it. I refused. She than went to the bank to arrange a loan. By the time she arranged the loan, the land sold for 70,000 baht per rai. I still have not heard the end of that. Land prices vary wildly. If you see a plot you really want, I'd suggest buying it because if you don't buy it someone else will.

[jamescollister]

My wife has bought land priced from 18,000 baht per rai up to 170,000 baht per rai. She gave 100,000 baht for a very low (three meters below the road) one rai plot. I thought she was crazy. Her sister begged her to sell it to her and she did. She sold it for the same price. Her sister and husband are both Thai.

Across the road from the two rai she just bought for 170,000 baht per rai is a one rai plot with lumyai trees. The asking price is 500,000 baht. The owner won't budge on his price. I have come to the conclusion that land is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

A few months ago my wife found six rai for 60,000 baht per rai. (no water or electricity) She wanted me to help her buy it. I refused. She than went to the bank to arrange a loan. By the time she arranged the loan, the land sold for 70,000 baht per rai. I still have not heard the end of that. Land prices vary wildly. If you see a plot you really want, I'd suggest buying it because if you don't buy it someone else will.

Think the fact of the matter is that Thailand and many other parts of S/E Asia are on the up. There may be booms an d busts over the years but the clock will not be turned back unless some world shattering event occurs. I remember many many years ago when I was a young lad on my firsy trip to Singapore. I was offered an apartment, $5,000 OZ [ about one years pay] I doubt I would see change from $2 mil now and there is no way I would earn 2 mill a year. Jim

[soihok]

Wow, I didn't realise that the price of land has shot up so much.

In 2005 we bought 16 rai with a bore hole and pump, dirt road and electrickery for 400,000 with chanote, close to Korat. Its growing Chilli at the moment. I would like to make it into a stock car track but I don't think it would catch on and I would become a bit of a black sheep of the area.

Fair play to my wife, she says she wants to buy more but after just building a new house for our eldest daughter in the hills of Pak Chong / Sikhiu / Soongnerng I need to get my head down and earn some money to be able to do this.

[soihok]

My wife has bought land priced from 18,000 baht per rai up to 170,000 baht per rai. She gave 100,000 baht for a very low (three meters below the road) one rai plot. I thought she was crazy. Her sister begged her to sell it to her and she did. She sold it for the same price. Her sister and husband are both Thai.

Across the road from the two rai she just bought for 170,000 baht per rai is a one rai plot with lumyai trees. The asking price is 500,000 baht. The owner won't budge on his price. I have come to the conclusion that land is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

A few months ago my wife found six rai for 60,000 baht per rai. (no water or electricity) She wanted me to help her buy it. I refused. She than went to the bank to arrange a loan. By the time she arranged the loan, the land sold for 70,000 baht per rai. I still have not heard the end of that. Land prices vary wildly. If you see a plot you really want, I'd suggest buying it because if you don't buy it someone else will.

Think the fact of the matter is that Thailand and many other parts of S/E Asia are on the up. There may be booms an d busts over the years but the clock will not be turned back unless some world shattering event occurs. I remember many many years ago when I was a young lad on my firsy trip to Singapore. I was offered an apartment, $5,000 OZ [ about one years pay] I doubt I would see change from $2 mil now and there is no way I would earn 2 mill a year. Jim

Hey Jim, I have been working in Singapore for the last 9 years. I rent an apartment here ( 1300 sq. feet ) and the owner has just sold it for almost a million Singapore Dollars , about 22 million baht!!!

[zzaa09]

Seems as real land ownership is the proverbial security blanket. A truth that some have known for some time now.

[Benjie]

I rent a house for 6k baht per month. That's 70k baht per year. House would cost 2 mil baht to buy.

If I buy in this illogical enviroment it would take me more than 20 years to make a profit renting the house.

When this real estate and currency bubble bursts I will consider buying land for the kids.

It will burst. Always does.

You are assuming that your rent wont increase for 20 years, You are also assuming that farming land in Issan is in some sort of real estate frenzy that's creating a bubble rather than going up with the value of food/crops.

[tothemark]

Wow, I didn't realise that the price of land has shot up so much.

In 2005 we bought 16 rai with a bore hole and pump, dirt road and electrickery for 400,000 with chanote, close to Korat. Its growing Chilli at the moment. I would like to make it into a stock car track but I don't think it would catch on and I would become a bit of a black sheep of the area.

Fair play to my wife, she says she wants to buy more but after just building a new house for our eldest daughter in the hills of Pak Chong / Sikhiu / Soongnerng I need to get my head down and earn some money to be able to do this.

It would catch on for me

[swissie]

There are still risks involved. A friend of mine through his company bought Nor Sor 3 property. He paid for 82 rai and recently had it split and surveyed. His 82 rai turned out to be 56 rai. He would be quite happy for anyone to assist him with an explanation.

We paid for a survey before we bought the land, seemed a good idea...

We found out that the seller thought it was 34 rai but it's actually 35. It cost a few hundred baht for the survey.

Gippy: To pay for a survey BEFORE the deal is done makes perfect sense to me. ( If the seller has any objections to such a survey, one knows that there is something "fishy"). Amen!

Cheers.

[soihok]

It would catch on for me

Its a kind of fantasy I've had in my head for some time. Few problems though, in fact many. Some of the cars on the road are as bad as bangers for racing. Certainly the wrong location, surrounded by miles of agricultural land. In Korat itself would be a different prospect though. Buts lets face, it would be a deadloss. Anyone willing to sponsor me 20 million to get the land ?

Imagine explaining to the Pu Yai Bahn of what you want to do on the land?

My Wife would probably disown me also.

[tothemark]

It would catch on for me

Its a kind of fantasy I've had in my head for some time. Few problems though, in fact many. Some of the cars on the road are as bad as bangers for racing. Certainly the wrong location, surrounded by miles of agricultural land. In Korat itself would be a different prospect though. Buts lets face, it would be a deadloss. Anyone willing to sponsor me 20 million to get the land ?

Imagine explaining to the Pu Yai Bahn of what you want to do on the land?

My Wife would probably disown me also.

Yeah, but can always build your own single seater with a busa in the back and do some red dirt road racing

[soihok]

Nice one!!

[Gippy]

Gippy: To pay for a survey BEFORE the deal is done makes perfect sense to me. ( If the seller has any objections to such a survey, one knows that there is something "fishy"). Amen!

Cheers.

I thought so! It was the first thing we did. We decided we wanted the land, got a copy of the papers from the owner, checked them at the land office and had a survey done. Once that was all cleared we got a contract drawn up and only then paid a deposit.

Even way past the middle of nowhere where our land is prices are increasing. While we were raising the funds (1m baht) the seller had an offer for 1.2m. As we had him in a contract that would have cost him 50k baht to bail on he turned them down to avoid the hassle. We have since been offered 1.5m baht for the land, we only bought it in Jan, crazy!

[klikster]

I rent a house for 6k baht per month. That's 70k baht per year. House would cost 2 mil baht to buy.

If I buy in this illogical enviroment it would take me more than 20 years to make a profit renting the house.

When this real estate and currency bubble bursts I will consider buying land for the kids.

It will burst. Always does.

You are assuming that your rent wont increase for 20 years, You are also assuming that farming land in Issan is in some sort of real estate frenzy that's creating a bubble rather than going up with the value of food/crops.

+1

Example .. rented a house in KK Bt 5,000 on a tiny plot (40-50 tw) .. no curtains, no air con, no .. nothing! Fortunately, wife had a bit of furniture and I had my 'puter desk. Had air put in bathroom, bought the wife a gas burner .. bought some odds and ends.

Owner lived across the street, 3 yip-yip dogs that went into a frenzy whenever anyone drove into the so. Hot - hot - hot (house oriented wrong for any breeze).

Owner came around after 2 months, "We're selling the place. You have to move."

He actually did me a favor. Now we own, my name on back of chanode ("can stay forever")

Bt 1 mill, semi-decent (liveable) house, 1 rai, 30 km south of Korat just off major highway. No dogs, green grass, room to walk around, clean air, happy wife, equity.

It's more about what is important to you than amortization.

[starcandle]

Some asking price examples near Surin

Agricultural land for sale in Surin

* Land for sale 43 Rai, location 15 km from Surin City, price 163.000 THB/Rai

* Land for sale 25 Rai, location 12 km from Surin City, price 120.000 THB/Rai

* Land for sale 22 Rai, location 15 km from Surin City, price 72.000 THB/Rai

* Land for sale 25 Rai, location 30 km from Surin City, price 70.000 THB/Rai

* Land for sale 9 Rai, location 9 km from Surin City, price 200.000 THB/Rai

* Land for sale 14 Rai, location 12 km from Surin City, price 85.000 THB/Rai

* Land for sale 26 Rai, location 17 km from Surin City, price 80.000 THB/Rai

* Land for sale 8 Rai, location 4 km from Surin City, price 280.000 THB/Rai

location, location, location.

says it all really

[soihok]

Yeah, but can always build your own single seater with a busa in the back and do some red dirt road racing

I think that a speedway track would go down great and be cheaper than the cars. Eurpoean speedway bikes are awesome and would be great fun, only need to knock some bikes up !!

[TexasRanger]

A lot of the land near us has gone up recently because everyone wants to get on the lucrative rubber tree bandwagon and so they know they can ask more money for the land.

[Royspurs]

I rent a house for 6k baht per month. That's 70k baht per year. House would cost 2 mil baht to buy.

If I buy in this illogical enviroment it would take me more than 20 years to make a profit renting the house.

When this real estate and currency bubble bursts I will consider buying land for the kids.

It will burst. Always does.

You are assuming that your rent wont increase for 20 years, You are also assuming that farming land in Issan is in some sort of real estate frenzy that's creating a bubble rather than going up with the value of food/crops.

In fact your both correct, typically land prices like share prices are driven by fear and greed, no doubt Issan land prices were undervalued and are now keeping pace with food prices creating a sellers market in which the "we cant loose buying land" mentality comes in and vendors get strange ideas about values (the greed), but as sure as night follows day it will hit a ceiling and prices will correct (to what extent will depend on how overheated the market got and of course other economic factors at the time). So the real question is one of timing and where we are currently in that cycle.

I like real estate as an investment and have personally experienced and profited from understanding the cycle, what concerns me with the Thai mentality (and therefore investing in more land in Thailand, I have a few rai and a house) is a lack of should we say business acumen/planning, you can see this very clearly with the saturation of businesses such as restaurants & bars etc, etc. Then add to this the big face & status symbol that land ownership has and you have all the elements for over inflated prices.

Instead of Issan land I have just brought 2 foreclosed houses in Houston TX as I am pretty sure we are at the bottom of the cycle here and if (as I expect) property doesn’t appreciate in value for a few years, I can still get 10 to 14% rental return.

Timing is always the key and the surest thing is nobody is really sure. Good luck.

[EnSvenskTiger]

Interesting, but...

What will one year of rice cultivation pay on one rai? After I have payed for the seed, the fertilizer,the laibour etc. and have sold the rice (paddy?) I now have a pack of Bath in my hand to go to the bank with. Assuming I paid 100000 for the rai and borrow from the bank at seven percent they want seven thousand of this money, and then I want to pay back my loan i ten years so thats another 10000 to the bank. Now I want some return on my investment, lets say five percent, so five thousand down in my pocket.

How much money do I still have now?

Tiger

[isanbirder]

Interesting, but...

What will one year of rice cultivation pay on one rai? After I have payed for the seed, the fertilizer,the laibour etc. and have sold the rice (paddy?) I now have a pack of Bath in my hand to go to the bank with. Assuming I paid 100000 for the rai and borrow from the bank at seven percent they want seven thousand of this money, and then I want to pay back my loan i ten years so thats another 10000 to the bank. Now I want some return on my investment, lets say five percent, so five thousand down in my pocket.

How much money do I still have now?

Tiger

You have a debt to the local loan shark, how much depending on the weather.

If you get 500 kgs. of rice from your rai (a fairly good yield here), and sell it at 20 b/kg (a good price), you have 10,000 baht. Take off your outlay, and you probably owe about 15,000. That's working on one crop annually, which is the case in much of Isan.

I know the prices quoted on this thread are not far above what is being paid, but it seems crazy to me.

[Royspurs]

Interesting, but...

What will one year of rice cultivation pay on one rai? After I have payed for the seed, the fertilizer,the laibour etc. and have sold the rice (paddy?) I now have a pack of Bath in my hand to go to the bank with. Assuming I paid 100000 for the rai and borrow from the bank at seven percent they want seven thousand of this money, and then I want to pay back my loan i ten years so thats another 10000 to the bank. Now I want some return on my investment, lets say five percent, so five thousand down in my pocket.

How much money do I still have now?

Tiger

You have a debt to the local loan shark, how much depending on the weather.

If you get 500 kgs. of rice from your rai (a fairly good yield here), and sell it at 20 b/kg (a good price), you have 10,000 baht. Take off your outlay, and you probably owe about 15,000. That's working on one crop annually, which is the case in much of Isan.

I know the prices quoted on this thread are not far above what is being paid, but it seems crazy to me.

I agree, for me any additional land in Issan would be to keep me occupied (ie hobby farm) and not for reasons of income or capital growth, why not capital growth, well, it's just my own personal rule that when there is a rush to purchase your most probably already too late.

[EnSvenskTiger]

Its THAT bad! Oh better live on the bank acount while it lasts then. No land for me!

Tiger

PS! Are there other crops that will get better money?

[Gary A]

I can say for a fact that my wife, a country girl, works her little butt of farming about 20 rai. She works very hard and I can tell you that I'm VERY happy that we don't need any income from farming. If you are planning on making any money from farming, I'd suggest that you try to wisely invest your money elsewhere. Eventually she will see a likely handsome profit from selling the land.

[BuckarooBanzai]

I can say for a fact that my wife, a country girl, works her little butt of farming about 20 rai. She works very hard and I can tell you that I'm VERY happy that we don't need any income from farming. If you are planning on making any money from farming, I'd suggest that you try to wisely invest your money elsewhere. Eventually she will see a likely handsome profit from selling the land.

A very truthful and correct appraisal!

[cardholder]

Interesting, but...

What will one year of rice cultivation pay on one rai? After I have payed for the seed, the fertilizer,the laibour etc. and have sold the rice (paddy?) I now have a pack of Bath in my hand to go to the bank with. Assuming I paid 100000 for the rai and borrow from the bank at seven percent they want seven thousand of this money, and then I want to pay back my loan i ten years so thats another 10000 to the bank. Now I want some return on my investment, lets say five percent, so five thousand down in my pocket.

How much money do I still have now?

Tiger

You have a debt to the local loan shark, how much depending on the weather.

If you get 500 kgs. of rice from your rai (a fairly good yield here), and sell it at 20 b/kg (a good price), you have 10,000 baht. Take off your outlay, and you probably owe about 15,000. That's working on one crop annually, which is the case in much of Isan.

I know the prices quoted on this thread are not far above what is being paid, but it seems crazy to me.

I had heard that 5,000 Baht per rai was the best that you could expect to 'net'.

[swissie]

Interesting, but...

What will one year of rice cultivation pay on one rai? After I have payed for the seed, the fertilizer,the laibour etc. and have sold the rice (paddy?) I now have a pack of Bath in my hand to go to the bank with. Assuming I paid 100000 for the rai and borrow from the bank at seven percent they want seven thousand of this money, and then I want to pay back my loan i ten years so thats another 10000 to the bank. Now I want some return on my investment, lets say five percent, so five thousand down in my pocket.

How much money do I still have now?

Tiger

You have a debt to the local loan shark, how much depending on the weather.

If you get 500 kgs. of rice from your rai (a fairly good yield here), and sell it at 20 b/kg (a good price), you have 10,000 baht. Take off your outlay, and you probably owe about 15,000. That's working on one crop annually, which is the case in much of Isan.

I know the prices quoted on this thread are not far above what is being paid, but it seems crazy to me.

I had heard that 5,000 Baht per rai was the best that you could expect to 'net'.

Above statement should make furure FARANG FARMERS WANT TO SIT UP AND LISTEN (and grab a pocket calculator).

Since immigration considers a monthly income for a Farang / Thai couple of 40'000 BHT per month as an minimum income to live on and qualify for a O-Visa ( = 480'000 BHT annually.)

Now you figure: If this kind of income should be generatet by farming, assuming a net yield of 5000 BHT per Rai, one would have to own 96 Rai !!!

How many Frarangs are able and willing to tie up the required funds (land purchase) to achieve this (income)-goal ?

I think, Farming for a Farang can be some sort of "hobby" and to keep him busy. No more, no less.

I still feel that the money that a Farang needs to live in Thailand has to come from "outside of Thailand". Preferably in form of some kind of pension-money. Of course, looking at exchange rates Euro / Dollar etc. versus the Thai-Baht, the pension-money of yesterday is probaly not the same as the pension-money of today. But that's another story.

Cheers.

[Gary A]

Interesting, but...

What will one year of rice cultivation pay on one rai? After I have payed for the seed, the fertilizer,the laibour etc. and have sold the rice (paddy?) I now have a pack of Bath in my hand to go to the bank with. Assuming I paid 100000 for the rai and borrow from the bank at seven percent they want seven thousand of this money, and then I want to pay back my loan i ten years so thats another 10000 to the bank. Now I want some return on my investment, lets say five percent, so five thousand down in my pocket.

How much money do I still have now?

Tiger

You have a debt to the local loan shark, how much depending on the weather.

If you get 500 kgs. of rice from your rai (a fairly good yield here), and sell it at 20 b/kg (a good price), you have 10,000 baht. Take off your outlay, and you probably owe about 15,000. That's working on one crop annually, which is the case in much of Isan.

I know the prices quoted on this thread are not far above what is being paid, but it seems crazy to me.

I had heard that 5,000 Baht per rai was the best that you could expect to 'net'.

Above statement should make furure FARANG FARMERS WANT TO SIT UP AND LISTEN (and grab a pocket calculator).

Since immigration considers a monthly income for a Farang / Thai couple of 40'000 BHT per month as an minimum income to live on and qualify for a O-Visa ( = 480'000 BHT annually.)

Now you figure: If this kind of income should be generatet by farming, assuming a net yield of 5000 BHT per Rai, one would have to own 96 Rai !!!

How many Frarangs are able and willing to tie up the required funds (land purchase) to achieve this (income)-goal ?

I think, Farming for a Farang can be some sort of "hobby" and to keep him busy. No more, no less.

I still feel that the money that a Farang needs to live in Thailand has to come from "outside of Thailand". Preferably in form of some kind of pension-money. Of course, looking at exchange rates Euro / Dollar etc. versus the Thai-Baht, the pension-money of yesterday is probaly not the same as the pension-money of today. But that's another story.

Cheers.

Depending on a regular steady income of 5,000 baht per rai is optimistic in the extreme. You are at the mercy of middlemen and the weather. More often than not, crop prices are down and often yields are WAY down. Expecting to live a decent life style depending on farm income is indeed living on the edge.

ADDED - My wife planted about 10 rai of sugar cane. She did have to replant some of it because of being way too dry and the pond was already pumped dry. The rains did come and it turned out pretty good. She got 70,000 baht total for her crop. That sounds pretty good until you look at the planting expense. It cost her 65,000 baht to put the crop in. She says that next year she will make some money. She only needs to fertilize and spray for weeds.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Gary A

[farang000999]

I was searching for residential rai prices but came upon this topic. It is interesting. People talk of population increases and how important farm land will be, yet still even in the USA, farmers are known as being poor. It seems to me that the value of farm land should be a product of the value of it's yield after expenses.

Just as residential real estate is a product of it's rental yield.

In the US housing bubble, rents were not moving with sale prices. People were buying so that they could sell. The profit would be realized by finding another buyer - like a Ponzi Scheme. The question I would ask about farm land is, are the buyers buying to hold or to flip? If everyone plans to flip than it is a game of musical chairs liek aponzi scheme where everyone gets rich as long as there is always a new buyer.

Anyways this thread is a bit old so i wonder how things are going now?

[jamescollister]

Prices are still going up and it seems to have no bearing on land output. Thais appear to believe that there is security in land ownership, is it a bubble or not, who knows, Where I am things have gone crazy, it's a strange world. Jim