Farang "Kreng Jai"...

[zzaa09]

Would you consider that such a paradox of character exist as Farang kreng jai? Is there such a beast of equivalence?:jap:

Edited March 19, 2011 by zzaa09

[bangkokcitylimits]

what does it mean ?

[remiss]

http://thai-language.com/id/134305#def2 <- is this what you mean?

In what context would it apply?

[melvinmelvin]

Not sure what you mean by Farang kreng jai, but if you mean whether that behaviour pattern is visible/present in farang land

I would say, yes, for sure.

Not necessarily to the same degree in Europe, America, AUS and NZ, but present, I'd say yes.

[Nawtier]

No, thoughtfulness, doing a good deed for someone else without expecting anything back and consideration are all concepts invented by Thai's.

They should make Thailand the consideration Hub of the universe.

[zzaa09]

No, thoughtfulness, doing a good deed for someone else without expecting anything back and consideration are all concepts invented by Thai's.

They should make Thailand the consideration Hub of the universe.

Yet....this has evolved naturally. :jap:

[sarahsbloke]

Most western people I know don't care at all about offending other people.

For example

If your boss turned left when he should have turned right, you would say Oi, wrong way. Thai person would say nothing because of greng jai and just not get to where they were going.

A salesman selling double glazing door to door, you would say, don't want any. Thai person would talk to them for an hour, then make an excuse.

You ask a western lady for her phone number, she would say bog off creep. Thai lady would give you a fake number or agree to meet you somewhere then not turn up.

Edited May 15, 2011 by sarahsbloke

[StreetCowboy]

Most western people I know try to avoid offending other people.

For example

If your boss turned left when he should have turned right, you would say 'I think I might have given you bad directions - that sign said Manchester, which is opposite to Huddersfield'. Thai person would say nothing because of greng jai and just not get to where they were going.

A salesman selling double glazing door to door, you would say, don't want any, even though you were wanting to nuy double glazing, but not from some villianous door-to-door tinker.. Thai person would talk to them for an hour, then make an excuse.

You ask a western lady for her phone number, she would say bog off creep, so that you could treat the matter in a humourous light, rather than pissing you about. Thai lady would give you a fake number or agree to meet you somewhere then not turn up. Actually, I had that with Western women when I was younger than I am today...

SC

[zzaa09]

If we're comparing a Western form of this character trait - you both might have points to be considered.

It's not so much that Western-Euro make up is conscious about the indifference of any such consideration, as compared to some Asian cultures that socially practice some sort of Kreng Jai twist, but as a rule Westerners tend to be more instinctive towards the questioning and challenging to what is thrown at them. Say what's on their mind and let the chips fall where they will. It's all just apart of the different social conditioning that we evolve from. This could be looked upon as a positive beneficial force or on the other hand such displays could be viewed harshly and detrimental to a social harmony {sort to speak}.

These ever-perpetuated theories of dominance vs. submissive and evolution within the Oriental vs. Occidental models tend to lose traction when we absorb the age old fabrications without the benefactors of objectivity.

Many forget that the Oriental diaspora has leaps and bounds to it's European counterpart, yet humility is sluggish to develop.

[saraburioz]

Of course there is - it's called codependency.

http://www.planetpsych.com/zPsychology_101/codependency.htm

[MaiChai]

The Thai concept goes beyond someone not wanting to impose, intrude or cause a confrontation. If somebody does something good for you, you owe them back a similar complement. It causes all sorts of problems in Thai culture, eg nepotism and loyalty to someone who has done something good for you. Its akin to almost being bought by someone if the good thing they do for you is very large. Amount of times Thais have not wanted me to do something for them because they would owe me back a similar complement. It probably also explains alot of the problems that exist in Thai politics!!!

The avoiding confrontation side of it causes all sorts of problems too. Example: no one wants to tell you there is a problem. This can be a tough one when you are the manager and ultimately responsible, but no one wants to be the carrier of bad news. The Thai girlfriend not telling you what you need to know is the one that irritates me; a decision cannot be made if there is no information provided!

After 16 years in Thailand and a number of relationships, I am coming to the conclusion that Thais and westerners are just not compatible! These cultural differences are just too large and lead to alot of frustrations. Another big problem is the thought process: alot of Thais are programmed not to think. The classic one is doing something and not thinking at all about the consequences of the action. The idea that one thing will lead to another just doesn't exist. Todays example: check the water level in the electric kettle. Now this sounds trivial but is a good example of one thing leading to another. Consequence of not checking the water level BEFORE hitting the switch will probably result in a bang and a tripped circuit breaker as the kettle was empty! This issue also explains the common complaint that Thais cannot plan ahead. Its do it here and now. Here is another example: gf: lets go to Ratchaburi. Me: But how long will it take to drive there and what time will we be there, and then how much time have we got to see the sights, etc. Well it was 2pm, I figured it would be 4pm when we get there and it gets dark at 6pm. Thus we should go tomorrow and leave earlier (now this is a plan as a result of thinking through the action)! TiT Love it or it drives you mad!

I think I need a drink after thinking all that through...

Edited May 16, 2011 by MaiChai

[buddy]

The Thai concept goes beyond someone not wanting to impose, intrude or cause a confrontation. If somebody does something good for you, you owe them back a similar complement. It causes all sorts of problems in Thai culture, eg nepotism and loyalty to someone who has done something good for you. Its akin to almost being bought by someone if the good thing they do for you is very large. Amount of times Thais have not wanted me to do something for them because they would owe me back a similar complement. It probably also explains alot of the problems that exist in Thai politics!!!

The avoiding confrontation side of it causes all sorts of problems too. Example: no one wants to tell you there is a problem. This can be a tough one when you are the manager and ultimately responsible, but no one wants to be the carrier of bad news. The Thai girlfriend not telling you what you need to know is the one that irritates me; a decision cannot be made if there is no information provided!

After 16 years in Thailand and a number of relationships, I am coming to the conclusion that Thais and westerners are just not compatible! These cultural differences are just too large and lead to alot of frustrations. Another big problem is the thought process: alot of Thais are programmed not to think. The classic one is doing something and not thinking at all about the consequences of the action. The idea that one thing will lead to another just doesn't exist. Todays example: check the water level in the electric kettle. Now this sounds trivial but is a good example of one thing leading to another. Consequence of not checking the water level BEFORE hitting the switch will probably result in a bang and a tripped circuit breaker as the kettle was empty! This issue also explains the common complaint that Thais cannot plan ahead. Its do it here and now. Here is another example: gf: lets go to Ratchaburi. Me: But how long will it take to drive there and what time will we be there, and then how much time have we got to see the sights, etc. Well it was 2pm, I figured it would be 4pm when we get there and it gets dark at 6pm. Thus we should go tomorrow and leave earlier (now this is a plan as a result of thinking through the action)! TiT Love it or it drives you mad!

I think I need a drink after thinking all that through...

And there is 'Boon Khun" and "Gatanyou" (spelling?) to add to the mix to drive you nuts (-:

[saraburioz]

The Thai concept goes beyond someone not wanting to impose, intrude or cause a confrontation. If somebody does something good for you, you owe them back a similar complement. It causes all sorts of problems in Thai culture, eg nepotism and loyalty to someone who has done something good for you. Its akin to almost being bought by someone if the good thing they do for you is very large. Amount of times Thais have not wanted me to do something for them because they would owe me back a similar complement. It probably also explains alot of the problems that exist in Thai politics!!!

The avoiding confrontation side of it causes all sorts of problems too. Example: no one wants to tell you there is a problem. This can be a tough one when you are the manager and ultimately responsible, but no one wants to be the carrier of bad news. The Thai girlfriend not telling you what you need to know is the one that irritates me; a decision cannot be made if there is no information provided!

After 16 years in Thailand and a number of relationships, I am coming to the conclusion that Thais and westerners are just not compatible! These cultural differences are just too large and lead to alot of frustrations. Another big problem is the thought process: alot of Thais are programmed not to think. The classic one is doing something and not thinking at all about the consequences of the action. The idea that one thing will lead to another just doesn't exist. Todays example: check the water level in the electric kettle. Now this sounds trivial but is a good example of one thing leading to another. Consequence of not checking the water level BEFORE hitting the switch will probably result in a bang and a tripped circuit breaker as the kettle was empty! This issue also explains the common complaint that Thais cannot plan ahead. Its do it here and now. Here is another example: gf: lets go to Ratchaburi. Me: But how long will it take to drive there and what time will we be there, and then how much time have we got to see the sights, etc. Well it was 2pm, I figured it would be 4pm when we get there and it gets dark at 6pm. Thus we should go tomorrow and leave earlier (now this is a plan as a result of thinking through the action)! TiT Love it or it drives you mad!

I think I need a drink after thinking all that through...

And there is 'Boon Khun" and "Gatanyou" (spelling?) to add to the mix to drive you nuts (-:

Good post Mai Chai.

It took me a long time to understand Gutanyou - but now am very grateful I do and appreciate it.

[MaiChai]

Yeah, the gf boon khuns me. She can never repay what she has got from me. I mean she hasn't had alot of the things that farangs give to wives/gfs. I refuse to buy her a car, or any other expensive item she doesn't need. Once they start getting big things from you, the expectation keeps increasing. Thus keep it small; if they don't like it, they can go, but what I provide is sufficient, especially from someone who is a Buddhist who should live their life by the kings guidelines of living a satisfying life within your means, adhering to sufficiency and being happy with what you have. She hears me and understands exactly where I am coming from.

My kids should gat-tan-yoo me when they are older; but the Thai education system probably prevents this! More likely the other way round. Kids from the ex.