How Is My Plan?

[Phatcharanan]

I wonder what response I would have got if I just posted:

“I have a degree, PGCE and some teaching experience - can I teach some illiterate kids how 'to do' English in the jungle for a few quid or should I not bother?"

Don't bother.

You will only get the usual rubbish advice from some that think errrrrrrr differently.

I also suspect that most of them don't hold QTS.

[Phatcharanan]

I just peeked quickly on Search, and NIST lists a retirement age of 60. Patana's posting says that the oldest age a person can be employed and issued a work permit is 60. RIS's post says 62. ELC says 59.

I would be grateful if you could supply the links for that information? I have looked at TES, SEarch Associates and one of the schools websites, can't find anything like that at all. I previously worked at Patana and cannot honestly recall any mention of this. I do believe that there was an 'upper age limit' for applying but once in.......you were in.

Some of the ages mentioned ring a bell in that there are mandatory retirement ages for Thai nationals working within schools.........although I am pretty certain this does not apply to private schools.

I may be mistaken of course.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Phatcharanan

[tonititan]

I just peeked quickly on Search, and NIST lists a retirement age of 60. Patana's posting says that the oldest age a person can be employed and issued a work permit is 60. RIS's post says 62. ELC says 59.

I would be grateful if you could supply the links for that information? I previously worked at Patana and cannot recall any mention of this. I do believe that there was an 'upper age limit' for applying but once in.......you were in.

Some f the ages mentioned ring a bell in that there are mandatory retirement ages for Thai nationals working within schools.........although I am pretty certain this does not apply to private schools.

I may be mistaken of course.

Well, like I said, it's on Search. Do you have a password?

[aussiebebe]

make him 50+ by the time he arrives. My friends who are 50+ or 55+ have told me that it's much harder to get hired by an international school. Some schools refuse to hire anyone over 50, especially a teacher who is practically brand new. And many international schools in BKK (or elsewhere) have a mandatory retirement age - maybe around 60 or 62.

I suspect that the OP is probably mid-late 30's.

I have worked at 3 of the top internationals in Bangkok and have yet to hear of a 'mandatory retirement age' for ex-pat teachers. Care to enlighten?

There's no set retirement age, athough there may be issues with work permits and/or health insurance; it's always hard to get hired by an international school if your don't have recent experience or employment, which is clearly the most crucial factor a school will consider.

My view of this man's 8-year plan is that it's too restricted and should include proposed employment in a UK school for several years to build knowledge and experience, which will give more options.

[Phatcharanan]

Well, like I said, it's on Search. Do you have a password?

For the most part incorrect.

Trawl through the schools websites and there is no mention of 'mandatory retirement'.

Ages previously quoted refer to maximum age at time of application. Also one of those schools contributes to the UK pension system, retirement age at 65 (although that is currently under review)

Work Permits are not a problem for some of the more 'elderly' lecturers at Uni's.

Health insurance is an issue though.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Phatcharanan

[newbie001]

Thailand does have a mandatory retirement age but foreign teachers are often given more leeway. Schools can use it as an excuse though if they don't want to re-hire you. Many of the local universities let go a lot of their Thai staff at 60 unless they have a PhD, then they give them a few years extra.

However the OP is far from 60 so it is a waste of an argument back and forth and totally off topic.

OP, I wasn't trying to insult you, but there are 100's and 100's of foreigners that come here that live paycheck to paycheck and end up bitter and broke. Thailand will become even more expensive to live in the future and is not a very cheap place to live a comfortable middle class lifestyle. Buying a car is more expensive here, petrol is more expensive, if you can live off of local food your food budget will still be about 10,000 baht a month but if you enjoy international food it might be close to 15-20,000 baht. Your pension will cover your basic expenses, but like I said there are many good international schools but their fees are more like 200-400,000 baht a year. That is quite a lot for a teacher's salary.

As for the credentials even children need to have teachers that know the subjects that they teach. EP and International schools will give you the best lifestyle and salary but you need to be knowledgable about class subjects not just EFL. If you just want to teach EFL to government school kids, then your degree is fine. But I doubt that you will enjoy it after a few months. 50-60 students in a class, with only 1-2 contact hours a week. You will see little progress and have limited options or assistance from the Thai staff who most won't speak much English either. It can be frustrating for many. However with your military background it might not be that much different. A lot of standing around and waiting, last minute notices.

I mean for a year or so no problem, but if you are planning on living here for the long term with your family you might want more.

I wouldn't want to live in Thailand with my family of four if we didn't earn a combined income of at least 60,000 baht a month. I would say even more if we didn't own our home and car already. You also want to build on your savings not deplete them at age 40. I know of more than a few guys here that are now 60 and basically broke. Pretty hard to get back in the rat race and earn a competitive wage at 60 in a western country after living in Thailand for 10+ years.

It is noble to want to teach to rural poor kids but it can be frustrating for many and you still have to build for your family's future. There are 100's of hidden costs on living here.

I am also a little confused because how can you have been in the military for 20 years and be only 32. That means you were 12 when started military service.

[pilgrim2505]

I am also a little confused because how can you have been in the military for 20 years and be only 32. That means you were 12 when started military service.

:jap:

Thank you again, I think I should have an original post on the lines of "What jobs are open to me if..."

I WILL be 40 ish when I leave, theres several options open to me in and around the time I am 32 now, joined at 17.

The more I think about it, I might stay in the UK and teach here and go Thailand on Holiday during term breaks. I had no idea it would be so complicated.

Edited March 24, 2011 by pilgrim2505

[pilgrim2505]

Do you teach?

[vont]

....if you can live off of local food your food budget will still be about 10,000 baht a month but if you enjoy international food it might be close to 15-20,000 baht....

May I please be disagreeable with the aforementioned?

There are probably more than 50% of the local populace who earn just about that amount and also have the responsibility to take care of the family members as well.

Coming from farang salary back home, it does appear Thai salary is meager and dehumanizing sort of.

But there are many farang in Thailand though not highly educated nor highly trained are living comfortably in Thailand.

It all depends on just HOW you wish to spend your and yours life and what sort of life style you wish to adopt.

The farang manager when he goes to bkk three nights, his tap runs around 12,000 baht.

While my Thai executive goes to bkk three nights, his tap runs less than 8,500 baht.

With 10k+ a month, a farang can live quite well in Thailand indeed, if he/she is determined and exercises his/her wisdom. So as everyone can see, with such income, to live in metropolitan such as bkk and chiengmai is mostly out of the question.

[pilgrim2505]

....if you can live off of local food your food budget will still be about 10,000 baht a month but if you enjoy international food it might be close to 15-20,000 baht....

May I please be disagreeable with the aforementioned?

There are probably more than 50% of the local populace who earn just about that amount and also have the responsibility to take care of the family members as well.

Coming from farang salary back home, it does appear Thai salary is meager and dehumanizing sort of.

But there are many farang in Thailand though not highly educated nor highly trained are living comfortably in Thailand.

It all depends on just HOW you wish to spend your and yours life and what sort of life style you wish to adopt.

The farang manager when he goes to bkk three nights, his tap runs around 12,000 baht.

While my Thai executive goes to bkk three nights, his tap runs less than 8,500 baht.

With 10k+ a month, a farang can live quite well in Thailand indeed, if he/she is determined and exercises his/her wisdom. So as everyone can see, with such income, to live in metropolitan such as bkk and chiengmai is mostly out of the question.

I am with you 100% on this!

I lived in Thailand for 3yrs when I took a career break and I spend about 3 months there every year. I could easily spend 5000thb a night out but remember many a month where I would live with the mrs and spend little more than 100-200thb a day on myself. Also when you live somewhere I find you live within your means, sure its fun to have nights out but I don’t live like that now nor will I when I move to Asia.

[tonititan]

Well, like I said, it's on Search. Do you have a password?

For the most part incorrect.

Search in general is incorrect? The info listed is pretty darn accurate for the school I currently work at, the schools I've previously worked at, and the schools I've previously applied to (and therefore got the same info straight from the school during the interview process).

Ages previously quoted refer to maximum age at time of application. Also one of those schools contributes to the UK pension system, retirement age at 65 (although that is currently under review)

That may be true for some of the schools, but when I read "Retirement age is 60 yrs old," I don't interpret that to mean maximum age at time of application. Do you?

The bottom line is that for whatever reason, right or wrong, a lot of international schools don't want to hire old(er) teachers, so people who are changing careers and becoming teachers later in life need to at least take that into consideration when planning for the future.

[newbie001]

There is no way that a family of four can live a middle class existence on 10,000 baht a month. That is still poor in Thailand. Income is not taxed on people that make less than 12K a month. The first rank of taxes is up to 45K, then there is a tax increase for those above that.

And yes 50% of the population make less than that but you do understand that they are subsistence farmers and not the same as working class. They are also uneducated and at best their kids go to crappy goverment schools and exist of the welfare systems that are in place. That is not middle class it is poor.

If the OP wants to come here with his family and live as poor as rural subsitence farmers then ok, but I doubt that he does. I assume that he wants a middle class lifestyle and will occassionally want to enjoy things that are familiar to him.

As I stated before education for his 2 kids will be a minimum of 10,000 baht a month but if he wants an equivalent education to England will need to pay more like 20,000 a month. Less if he works for the International school.

Food budget will be more than 10,000. Simple math: 3 meals a day (25 baht a meal each *4= 300 a day -9000 a month. But that is living off rice dishes and nothing else. Add fruit, some snacks, the occasional western meal and a family of four is easily spending 15,000 baht a month and usually a lot more. Then there are also hidden fees with visas and the like. Renting a house for four will be a minimum of 10,000 baht a lot more if in BKK. If one owns a house there are a lot of things that go into maintaining a house. Payments on a car will be another 5-10,000 baht a month or a big chunk of cash dwindled from his savings. Fuel charges for a car will be a few thousand baht a month. The occasional holiday, hospital bills, flying the family back to UK once a year, it all adds up.

No, I am not a teacher, but I have family that are on the board of directors at one private school and one government university.

FYI if you want to work for less than 30K baht a month at a government school be prepared for more than 8 hours a day. Most schools even private schools have unrealistic expectations on their staff. Though you will not be required to do as much as the Thai staff, you will still have to go to morning assembly and stand outside for 20 minutes listening to the National Anthem, singing songs and listening to announcements. Most likely you will have to attend all office meetings that will be held in Thai. You might get lucky to find someone to translate for you but they are doing you a favor and you will have to reciprocate something back to them or they might build a resentment.

I just don't see why anyone would choose a low salary goverment job when they will have a degree, PGCE and some experience. You will be happier at a good international school. You might have to work at a lower ranked school for a few years though before getting the better positions.

Again for a year or 2 it is definitely something that should be done, but if your goal is to come for a lifetime, you need to think about the higher paid jobs which require higher level of credentials. Look at the job boards like ajarn and see what they want for the top paid international schools. You only have to change your focus of study a little bit or at least prove that you know the subject matter.

I think that overall you will be fine in Thailand and love it. So will your family, but don't be fooled thinking that you can live the same quality of life in the UK for 10K baht a month.

Good luck and don't worry too much you do have 8 years to get everything that you want. Your head is definitely in the right place and you have a clear vision. So I doubt that you will have any problems no matter what you do.

[Captain Haddock]

Home schooling is accepted in Thailand as long as the curriculum has been passed by the MoE.

[newbie001]

You are right Haddock. I forgot that they did make it legal in 2004. It is not common amongst Thais though because most Universities don't accept it. They also will be tested on the Thai curriculum for their national testing so using a curriculum from a western nation isn't necessarily helpful.

But for those that are not going to stay here then it is ok.

The other issue is the red tape that one has to go through in order to get their curriculum and their learning center at home approved. They will be inspected and have a ton of paperwork and quality assurance procedures that they will need to do. Not really worth it especially since they will have to pay for private tutors for certain subjects that the parent is not fully capable of doing. Honestly, how many non math/science majors can teach calculus, physics or chemistry. Heck most adults couldn't even pass a grade six math test on areas and fractions.

Edited March 25, 2011 by newbie001

[Scott]

There isn't a mandatory retirement age, however, a lot of schools make one up as they go along. There certainly is age discrimination.