PM. A Thaksin Return To Politics Would Be Possible.

[bristolgeoff]

unless they is a big change in thailand he will never come back.he is hoping for a miracle somehow

[rixalex]

I think it would be hilarious if the Thaksin associated parties were to somehow win the next election. The sheer joy of knowing that some ofThaiVisa's spewers of venom would be worried and looking over their shoulders would do it for me.

Who can say what makes us tickle and why? For me, Thaksin actually being brought to justice, along with any other corrupt politician, would make me pretty happy, maybe even enjoy a little chuckle. Don't suppose his legion of fans here on Thaivisa would share my joy.

[473geo]

There is always the possibility that if players have to be given bit parts to ensure Thailand will unify, and move forward, then this will be the way it runs. The important aspect here is not retribution and revenge but to unify Thailand and move forward.

I think the abilities and aims of Abhisit are underestimated by many, including his own supporters

[chachachacha]

I think it would be hilarious if the Thaksin associated parties were to somehow win the next election. The sheer joy of knowing that some ofThaiVisa's spewers of venom would be worried and looking over their shoulders would do it for me.

Who can say what makes us tickle and why? For me, Thaksin actually being brought to justice, along with any other corrupt politician, would make me pretty happy, maybe even enjoy a little chuckle. Don't suppose his legion of fans here on Thaivisa would share my joy.

So all corrupt politicians brought to justice ? So that just leaves the junta . What about them ? Are they not corrupt ? So who then The Police so lets have a police state .Whoops they are corrupt Who next ??????????

[Pi Sek]

if he comes back and they vote him in, or vice versa...they deserve what they get

Is that not the point, people learn by their own mistakes, had the last coup not taken place, perhaps Thailand would have evolved, and be moving in a more educated balanced direction right now........ an opportunity missed?

Educated and balanced? You must be joking but applying your logic from another thread this must mean that you approve of extra-judicial murders

Thaksin (as the current PM points out) is NOT exiled from Thailand. He has not publicly renounced his citizenship and is allowed to return. He will then have to serve out his jail sentence and face the (I think 19) other charges against him.

The fun part will be, if he ever serves out his sentences and attempts to return to political service (which he could not do in most countries due to his conviction of a political crime) how he will try and explain away his citizenship in other countries after the reds tried to smear Abhisit for having a UK birthright. (In other words Abhisit has always been both Thai and Brit from birth, but Thaksin sought out citizenship in other places.)

I think what 473geo was trying to say is that having Thaksin rape the country further than he already did might have allowed for the country to fall on its face economically, culturally, criminally, whatever. Then public outcry will demand change and, when (president?) Thaksin doesn't allow it...

He's right, democracy must evolve locally for it to work. Install it and it will fail, continuously, but history shows that in the long-term it ends up as the only workable model. The problem is that this period of democratic evolution hurts and it takes a long time and, clearly, the Royal Thai Army has historically felt the pain of a short-term fix (a coup) is more suitable than a long-term fix (letting democracy run its course). Of course, they're gonna have to deal with the pain of the the long-term fix one day.

Their argument (and the NPP's as it happens) is where the start point of democracy is. Once it's agreed that democracy is the political system of the country, there should be no more coups; yet there still are, presumably because the Thai Law and the constitution are clearly not strong enough in the eyes of the RTA to accept this 'no more coups' rule which is why, despite the public sector outside the military is being operated as a democracy, the military itself only allows for a quasi-democracy due to the ongoing permanent threat of a coup followed by a Junta-appointed caretaker government whilst they seal up the cracks that their last quick fix was supposed to address (which, in itself, usually ends up in either failure or a bigger political problem due to the political ineptitude of military generals).

The Red Shirts would do well to recognise that Thaksin was the problem that needed the Army's quick fix, for the benefit of the country, irrespective of whether that quick fix was a good idea or not. It would help the army to understand that these people are not mindless buffaloes after all and it would discredit the very undemocratic "look after big brother and big brother looks after you" mentality ("team ngarn" I hear a lot here) that we see in many developing democracies, including Thailand.

"Yes, Mr. Farmer, I know that you got a loan from Mr. Thaksin. By the way, how are the repayments going on that? Oh, you had to sell your land to that rice miller, who incidentally promotes the UDD and Peua Thai and used to promote TRT? Oh, sorry to hear that."

Heard this before? You see a problem there? The Devil always comes bearing gifts.

I find it remarkable that people are having trouble seeing what is going on . First the release of Red Shirts now this. Could it be that people are trying to find favour with the PTP ? because they know there is only one outcome to the election & that will pave the way for Thaksins return.

Not sure & stand to be corrected but is there not a clause in Thai law that there can be no prosicution of people if they are serving as Government MPs.

From my understanding of your posts, you seem to live in a very pro-red village with very little connection to the outside world? I assure you that, where I live (nowhere near BKK by the way), there are very few (some, admittedly) who would vote Peua Thai and I have daily conversations with staunchly anti-red Thais and try to explain why the Red Shirts really do have a point. But not all of the democratic changes that the Red Shirts are calling for are what the majority of Thais want, not to mention the very undemocratic one of amnesty for Thaksin. For example, I think the lese majeste Law would be better policed culturally (criticising HM will get you ostracized) than criminally (criticising HM will get you a long prison sentence) - especially since it's hard to argue that this Law has not been abused for mudslinging purposes by both sides of the divide - but most Thais that I know support this Law.

I think I've seen you previously post some "alternative" news sources, so I assume you are fairly read-up. But do you read any mainstream ones too? They don't usually say what you say, and the way they say it is normally slightly less emotional. Generally I find their information more accurate but they're prone to mistakes like everyone else. Even if you don't accept what they say as the truth, it's maybe a good idea to check up what they're feeding their readers every now and again. At the moment, they're feeding us that the election result is anything but pre-determined.

You say - "they know there is only one outcome to the election" - What?! If your source is so good that it provides you with doubtless information like this, please share the source with the rest of us so that we can all go and place online bets!

[chachachacha]

Not sure & stand to be corrected but is there not a clause in Thai law that there can be no prosicution of people if they are serving as Government MPs.

I think the case of Jatuporn shows that this immunity goes for any MP, not just a Government one ?

So it seems so it seems . I wonder why the junta supporters are not jumping up & down about him

[Bakseedaa]

if he comes back and they vote him in, or vice versa...they deserve what they get

Is that not the point, people learn by their own mistakes, had the last coup not taken place, perhaps Thailand would have evolved, and be moving in a more educated balanced direction right now........ an opportunity missed?

And perhaps NOT... talk about what happened and not what might have happened...

[metisdead]

Another post removed.

Posters are reminded to stay on topic and to refrain from comments concerning the character of other posters.

[whybother]

Not sure & stand to be corrected but is there not a clause in Thai law that there can be no prosicution of people if they are serving as Government MPs.

I think the case of Jatuporn shows that this immunity goes for any MP, not just a Government one ?

So it seems so it seems . I wonder why the junta supporters are not jumping up & down about him

Because there are no junta supporters ...

[Jingthing]

Thaksin will be back only the stupid think otherwise. There is no stopping that Red shirt train . The next election after this will bring home to Thailand & his place as leader of the Government .

I don't know. You may be right. Personally, I feel that the red train has lost a lot of steam, but we'll see. Perhaps Thailand is playing out some kind of self destructive melodrama and they just won't feel fulfilled until they play out the Thaksin card to it's end, which would mean Thaksin coming back to power.

[jdinasia]

Not sure & stand to be corrected but is there not a clause in Thai law that there can be no prosicution of people if they are serving as Government MPs.

I think the case of Jatuporn shows that this immunity goes for any MP, not just a Government one ?

So it seems so it seems . I wonder why the junta supporters are not jumping up & down about him

Because there are no junta supporters ...

Because the concept of a "junta by proxy" has been refuted several times.

I forget, is Kasit actually an MP?

[kuffki]

If he was to come back, he may need a visa since his Thai passport has been cancelled and he is a citizen of another.

Would he need to do visa runs I wonder?

[chachachacha]

Because there are no junta supporters

They know not what they do LOL

[473geo]

if he comes back and they vote him in, or vice versa...they deserve what they get

Is that not the point, people learn by their own mistakes, had the last coup not taken place, perhaps Thailand would have evolved, and be moving in a more educated balanced direction right now........ an opportunity missed?

And perhaps NOT... talk about what happened and not what might have happened...

Perhaps this quote from the Pi sek response above will assist

"He's right, democracy must evolve locally for it to work. Install it and it will fail, continuously, but history shows that in the long-term it ends up as the only workable model. The problem is that this period of democratic evolution hurts and it takes a long time and, clearly, the Royal Thai Army has historically felt the pain of a short-term fix (a coup) is more suitable than a long-term fix (letting democracy run its course). Of course, they're gonna have to deal with the pain of the the long-term fix one day.""

[mahjongguy]

If he was to come back, he may need a visa since his Thai passport has been cancelled and he is a citizen of another.

Khun T still has an ordinary Thai passport. It was his diplomatic passport that was revoked.

[TAWP]

if he comes back and they vote him in, or vice versa...they deserve what they get

Is that not the point, people learn by their own mistakes, had the last coup not taken place, perhaps Thailand would have evolved, and be moving in a more educated balanced direction right now........ an opportunity missed?

Actually, it seemed to move away from any position of learning, more into 'strong authoritarian leader'.

A care-taker PM (as he had dissolved the parliament and then failed to bring through proper elections) that still tried to bring through legislation and whitewash of his own dealings was a direct threat to the future of the nation.

Edited March 27, 2011 by TAWP

[ginjag]

If he was to come back, he may need a visa since his Thai passport has been cancelled and he is a citizen of another.

Would he need to do visa runs I wonder?

Ha Ha 5555 imagine stood in the cattle train queue at vientiene Thai consulate, Taksin ( sinatra) in front of you-to be told ""you already have 2 double entry tourist visas in your passport--SORRY-go back to Nong Khai and get a 15 day one on entry.-Have him treated how he treated us.

Edited March 27, 2011 by ginjag

[473geo]

if he comes back and they vote him in, or vice versa...they deserve what they get

Is that not the point, people learn by their own mistakes, had the last coup not taken place, perhaps Thailand would have evolved, and be moving in a more educated balanced direction right now........ an opportunity missed?

Actually, it seemed to move away from any position of learning, more into 'strong authoritarian leader'.

A care-taker PM (as he had dissolved the parliament and then failed to bring through proper elections) that still tried to bring through legislation and whitewash of his own dealings was a direct threat to the future of the nation.

And there is not a transparent legal process to achieve the desired result?............

[Pi Sek]

Is that not the point, people learn by their own mistakes, had the last coup not taken place, perhaps Thailand would have evolved, and be moving in a more educated balanced direction right now........ an opportunity missed?

Actually, it seemed to move away from any position of learning, more into 'strong authoritarian leader'.

A care-taker PM (as he had dissolved the parliament and then failed to bring through proper elections) that still tried to bring through legislation and whitewash of his own dealings was a direct threat to the future of the nation.

Sorry to keep piping on, but that's 473geo's point. He's asking us to question whether, if Thaksin had not been ousted, the direct threat to the future of the nation would have been defused by democratic means. The answer is, of course, yes - but at what cost?

I'm asking you all to question whether the cost of the long-term fix (letting Thaksin have his political way instead of ousting him and letting society deal with the results) was high enough to justify the short term fix (the coup). This is a much harder question to answer, because we just don't know - the long-term fix didn't happen!

A true lover of democracy, which I am not, will ask you to question whether the army, some protest group or anyone else for that matter (with exception to the courts, who have a more clearly-defined framework to work within) has any right whatsoever to carry out the short-term fix.

[kuffki]

If he was to come back, he may need a visa since his Thai passport has been cancelled and he is a citizen of another.

Khun T still has an ordinary Thai passport. It was his diplomatic passport that was revoked.

I could be wrong, but i am pretty sure both have been cancelled. First when he was convicted and second when he took up citizenship in Montenegro or one of those countries.

its off topic, but if anyone interested, i found 2 articles and they little contradicting.

He is still a Thai citizen http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2010/12/22/opinion/He-is-still-a-Thai-citizen-30144900.html

Abhisit says Thaksin must forego Thai citizenship if he becomes Cambodian

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Abhisit-says-Thaksin-must-forego-Thai-citizenship--30121915.html

Edited March 27, 2011 by kuffki

[TAWP]

And there is not a transparent legal process to achieve the desired result?............

If the separation of instances have been weakened then this might not be possible.

Make no mistake, a coup is always a sign of utter failure - much like when an IT guy restarts the PC instead of being able to recover from the get-go. In this case I think the weakness of the separated control institutions and the constitution was a major part of it.

[rubl]

I find it remarkable that people are having trouble seeing what is going on . First the release of Red Shirts now this. Could it be that people are trying to find favour with the PTP ? because they know there is only one outcome to the election & that will pave the way for Thaksins return.

Not sure & stand to be corrected but is there not a clause in Thai law that there can be no prosicution of people if they are serving as Government MPs.

A government conspiracy theory! I really love those. Ah, all those poor Dem's, BJT's, etc. fearing for their very life and trying to curry favour with the upcoming PTP = UDD = Thaksin lot. Pathetic bunch. Stand up and be killed, that's my motto, sir!

[Buchholz]

If he was to come back, he may need a visa since his Thai passport has been cancelled and he is a citizen of another.

Khun T still has an ordinary Thai passport. It was his diplomatic passport that was revoked.

Thaksin's ordinary Thai passport was revoked in April 2009 after his Red Shirts stormed the ASEAN Summit. His diplomatic Thai passport was revoked before that.

He maintains a Montenegrin passport, a Nicaraguan passport, and an Ugandan passport.

[mahjongguy]

Thaksin's ordinary Thai passport was revoked in April 2009 after his Red Shirts stormed the ASEAN Summit.

Your facts are correct. Somehow I remembered it differently.

From a technical standpoint, the lack of a passport (any passport) would not prevent his return. He could enter through a land border with only his Thai ID card. Of course, being who he is, there might be something of a delay.

[brd]

pre elections barometers are :

1- the currency actually steady to firm

2- the stockmarket for the 3rd year in a bull trend

3- the economy in spite of the turmoils is raising with the exports strong.

Any moves by ex PM Thaksin and or supporters will create confidence hazards because of his/their past and HIM not been cleared under the laws of Thailand.

PM Abhisit has been working very hard ( not played golf much ! ) the past years and is the one WHO deserves to LEAD the THAI.

Let's it be

by adoption a fan with all my respect for A strong, patient, soft hand, stamina superb education character PM Abhisit Please carry on.

[chachachacha]

pre elections barometers are :

1- the currency actually steady to firm

2- the stockmarket for the 3rd year in a bull trend

3- the economy in spite of the turmoils is raising with the exports strong.

Any moves by ex PM Thaksin and or supporters will create confidence hazards because of his/their past and HIM not been cleared under the laws of Thailand.

PM Abhisit has been working very hard ( not played golf much ! ) the past years and is the one WHO deserves to LEAD the THAI.

Let's it be

by adoption a fan with all my respect for A strong, patient, soft hand, stamina superb education character PM Abhisit Please carry on.

So just ignore his crimes against humanity . All that murder on the streets of BKK yet you say deserve Deserve .Gaddaffi springs to mind . Do you also support him ?

[Buchholz]

Thaksin's ordinary Thai passport was revoked in April 2009 after his Red Shirts stormed the ASEAN Summit.

Your facts are correct. Somehow I remembered it differently.

From a technical standpoint, the lack of a passport (any passport) would not prevent his return. He could enter through a land border with only his Thai ID card. Of course, being who he is, there might be something of a delay.

If he wishes to fly in, none of his passports are good for either visa on arrival nor visa exempt entry:

The downside is that none of those countries he has a passport for have consular services in-country, so

using Thaivisa's handy chart:

http://www.thaivisa.com/479.0.html

and the Foreign Ministry's website:

http://www.thaiembassy.org/

If he uses his Ugandan passport, he would have to apply for a visa before travelling to Thailand at the Thai Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya.

If he uses his Nicaraguan passport, he would have to apply for a visa before travelling to Thailand at the Thai Embassy in Mexico City, Mexico.

If he uses his Montenegrin passport, he would have to apply for a visa before travelling to Thailand at the Thai Embassy in Budapest, Hungary.

On a positive note, those visas are currently still free I think.

.

Edited March 27, 2011 by Buchholz

[Insight]

pre elections barometers are :

1- the currency actually steady to firm

2- the stockmarket for the 3rd year in a bull trend

3- the economy in spite of the turmoils is raising with the exports strong.

Any moves by ex PM Thaksin and or supporters will create confidence hazards because of his/their past and HIM not been cleared under the laws of Thailand.

PM Abhisit has been working very hard ( not played golf much ! ) the past years and is the one WHO deserves to LEAD the THAI.

Let's it be

by adoption a fan with all my respect for A strong, patient, soft hand, stamina superb education character PM Abhisit Please carry on.

So just ignore his crimes against humanity . All that murder on the streets of BKK yet you say deserve Deserve .Gaddaffi springs to mind . Do you also support him ?

Taking your Gadaffi analogy further, please identify the international condemnation Abhisit faced for his handling of the red shirt armed occupation. Thanks.

[whybother]

So just ignore his crimes against humanity . All that murder on the streets of BKK yet you say deserve Deserve .Gaddaffi springs to mind . Do you also support him ?

So, for you, Thaksin's crimes against humanity are OK, but Abhisit's alleged crimes against humanity are bad?

[Buchholz]

pre elections barometers are :

1- the currency actually steady to firm

2- the stockmarket for the 3rd year in a bull trend

3- the economy in spite of the turmoils is raising with the exports strong.

Any moves by ex PM Thaksin and or supporters will create confidence hazards because of his/their past and HIM not been cleared under the laws of Thailand.

PM Abhisit has been working very hard ( not played golf much ! ) the past years and is the one WHO deserves to LEAD the THAI.

Let's it be

by adoption a fan with all my respect for A strong, patient, soft hand, stamina superb education character PM Abhisit Please carry on.

So just ignore his crimes against humanity . All that murder on the streets of BKK yet you say deserve Deserve .Gaddaffi springs to mind . Do you also support him ?

Just how are Amsterdam's comical claims of "crimes against humanity" progressing?

Gosh darn that ol' ICC and its "double standards" for not putting the Abhisit in the same category as Rwandan warlords.

btw, good post, brd.