Dentists And Meditation

[bina]

thought this might interest a few of you:

went to the dentist yesterday: was told i have a huge huge cavity, brken tooth, etc i must use the numbing stuff! i've never used any pain killer when having smaller cavities filled ever since i was a kid; i do have a high pain tolerance....

the doc (a russian/israeli) was sceptical and really pushed me to use pain killers; i agreed that if the pain became too bad (before i bite or kick the doctor), i would use the stuff....

he drilled and drilled and then said: 'thats it, the worst is over, now just to do the filling stuff"...and both he and the assistant were amazed....

i told them i just did deep breathing and meditated (i used the calm face of Buddha pictured in my mind as a reminder) ; i got up from the chair rested, not nerved out, no pain, my heart rate barely changed (only at the beginning till i started the breathing method)

i wouldnt try this obviously if it was a full scale operation but definately before a small scale op. instead of taking relaxer meds before hand etc

[camerata]

I remember in one of Thanissaro Bhikkhu's dhamma talks he recounts the tale of a Thai meditation master (I think it was Ajahn Fuang) who had an appendectomy while in one of the higher meditative jhanas because he didn't trust the anaesthetist.

[Mr. Farang]

thought this might interest a few of you:

went to the dentist yesterday: was told i have a huge huge cavity, brken tooth, etc  i must use the numbing stuff!  i've never used any pain killer when having smaller cavities filled ever since i was a kid; i do have a high pain tolerance....

the doc (a russian/israeli) was sceptical and really pushed me to use pain killers; i agreed that if the pain became too bad (before i bite or kick the doctor), i would use the stuff....

he drilled and drilled and then said: 'thats it, the worst is over, now just to do the filling stuff"...and both he and the assistant were amazed....

i told them i just did deep breathing and meditated (i used the calm face of Buddha pictured in my mind as a reminder) ; i got up from the chair rested, not nerved out, no pain, my heart rate barely changed (only at the beginning till i started the breathing method)

i wouldnt try this obviously if it was a full scale operation but definately before a small scale op. instead of taking relaxer meds before hand etc

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is one of the more silly posts I have read in a while, Khun Bina. The Buddha would have advised you to take the pain medication. The purpose of Buddhist practice is to develop insight into the mind-body, not to control pain and go to the dentist and refuse pain medication. The Buddha did not each foolishness, he taught the Eight Fold Path and nothing in his many sutras encouraged his followers to use Buddhist thought to control pain during medical procedures.

Interesting, your silly post, but "Wrong View'... from a Theravada Buddhist perspective. Next time, please take the pain medication.

Your sincerely,

Mr. Farang

[Tywais]

This is one of the more silly posts I have read in a while, Khun Bina.  The Buddha would have advised you to take the pain medication.  The purpose of Buddhist practice is to develop insight into the mind-body, not to control pain and go to the dentist and refuse pain medication.  The Buddha did not each foolishness, he taught the Eight Fold Path and nothing in his many sutras encouraged his followers to use Buddhist thought to control pain during medical procedures.

The First of the Four Noble Truths states that "Life is Suffering". So he shouldn't have meditated either so he could witness the First Noble Truth.

Seriously though, here is some interesting reading:

http://www.wwzc.org/dharmaTalks/The_Four_Noble_Truths.htm

Edited September 22, 2005 by tywais

[Soph]

Mmmmm, nice idea, but give me the drugs anyday.

Im at the dentist next friday and will be sweet talking they dude for any painkillers her can give me

[sabaijai]

thought this might interest a few of you:

went to the dentist yesterday: was told i have a huge huge cavity, brken tooth, etc  i must use the numbing stuff!  i've never used any pain killer when having smaller cavities filled ever since i was a kid; i do have a high pain tolerance....

the doc (a russian/israeli) was sceptical and really pushed me to use pain killers; i agreed that if the pain became too bad (before i bite or kick the doctor), i would use the stuff....

he drilled and drilled and then said: 'thats it, the worst is over, now just to do the filling stuff"...and both he and the assistant were amazed....

i told them i just did deep breathing and meditated (i used the calm face of Buddha pictured in my mind as a reminder) ; i got up from the chair rested, not nerved out, no pain, my heart rate barely changed (only at the beginning till i started the breathing method)

i wouldnt try this obviously if it was a full scale operation but definately before a small scale op. instead of taking relaxer meds before hand etc

This is one of the more silly posts I have read in a while, Khun Bina. The Buddha would have advised you to take the pain medication. The purpose of Buddhist practice is to develop insight into the mind-body, not to control pain and go to the dentist and refuse pain medication. The Buddha did not each foolishness, he taught the Eight Fold Path and nothing in his many sutras encouraged his followers to use Buddhist thought to control pain during medical procedures.

Interesting, your silly post, but "Wrong View'... from a Theravada Buddhist perspective. Next time, please take the pain medication.

Your sincerely,

Mr. Farang

Then again one of the precepts proscribes the use of intoxicating substances.

[chownah]

thought this might interest a few of you:

went to the dentist yesterday: was told i have a huge huge cavity, brken tooth, etc  i must use the numbing stuff!  i've never used any pain killer when having smaller cavities filled ever since i was a kid; i do have a high pain tolerance....

the doc (a russian/israeli) was sceptical and really pushed me to use pain killers; i agreed that if the pain became too bad (before i bite or kick the doctor), i would use the stuff....

he drilled and drilled and then said: 'thats it, the worst is over, now just to do the filling stuff"...and both he and the assistant were amazed....

i told them i just did deep breathing and meditated (i used the calm face of Buddha pictured in my mind as a reminder) ; i got up from the chair rested, not nerved out, no pain, my heart rate barely changed (only at the beginning till i started the breathing method)

i wouldnt try this obviously if it was a full scale operation but definately before a small scale op. instead of taking relaxer meds before hand etc

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is one of the more silly posts I have read in a while, Khun Bina. The Buddha would have advised you to take the pain medication. The purpose of Buddhist practice is to develop insight into the mind-body, not to control pain and go to the dentist and refuse pain medication. The Buddha did not each foolishness, he taught the Eight Fold Path and nothing in his many sutras encouraged his followers to use Buddhist thought to control pain during medical procedures.

Interesting, your silly post, but "Wrong View'... from a Theravada Buddhist perspective. Next time, please take the pain medication.

Your sincerely,

Mr. Farang

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can not see how bina's decision to have a dental procedure without anesthetic could be called "Wrong View". It seems to me that it is immaterial....one of those things that are not important in following the path. She has had no negative consequence from this....she is not claiming that Buddhists should do the same or that what she did is superior in any way....to me she seems to be just relating an interesting experience....it seems that you see it differently. Please develop the reasoning for your judgement that for her to do this is "Wrong View". Is this similar to your story about seeing a monk smoking a cigar?

[chownah]

thought this might interest a few of you:

went to the dentist yesterday: was told i have a huge huge cavity, brken tooth, etc  i must use the numbing stuff!  i've never used any pain killer when having smaller cavities filled ever since i was a kid; i do have a high pain tolerance....

the doc (a russian/israeli) was sceptical and really pushed me to use pain killers; i agreed that if the pain became too bad (before i bite or kick the doctor), i would use the stuff....

he drilled and drilled and then said: 'thats it, the worst is over, now just to do the filling stuff"...and both he and the assistant were amazed....

i told them i just did deep breathing and meditated (i used the calm face of Buddha pictured in my mind as a reminder) ; i got up from the chair rested, not nerved out, no pain, my heart rate barely changed (only at the beginning till i started the breathing method)

i wouldnt try this obviously if it was a full scale operation but definately before a small scale op. instead of taking relaxer meds before hand etc

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is one of the more silly posts I have read in a while, Khun Bina. The Buddha would have advised you to take the pain medication. The purpose of Buddhist practice is to develop insight into the mind-body, not to control pain and go to the dentist and refuse pain medication. The Buddha did not each foolishness, he taught the Eight Fold Path and nothing in his many sutras encouraged his followers to use Buddhist thought to control pain during medical procedures.

Interesting, your silly post, but "Wrong View'... from a Theravada Buddhist perspective. Next time, please take the pain medication.

Your sincerely,

Mr. Farang

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then again one of the precepts proscribes the use of intoxicating substances.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've been studying the Bhavan Society's lessons and one of the things they say is that you should abstain from intoxicants that do harm or interfere with your practice......anesthetic for a tooth removal is not harmful...your not likely to go around doing unseemly things while under its influence...and its unlikely that you will develop a habit from this......so its probably OK.......I haven't so far read the exact text of what Buddha had to say about this but what they say makes sense to me.

[Mr. Farang]

Then again one of the precepts proscribes the use of intoxicating substances. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear Khun Sabaijai,

Laughing out loud, I am confident the Buddha was not talking about a layperson at the dentist when that precept was pinned. Recall, the correct Buddhist practice is to follow the middle path.

Dear Khun Bina,

Please practice Buddhism by following the Eight Fold Path. I feel both worry and concern about you when I read your post. It is considered a "defilement" in Theravada Buddhist practice to use "Concentration" as a sort of "Mind Power". Concentration should be used to develop Vipassana, as follows:

Vipassana, which means to see things as they really are, is one of India's most ancient techniques of meditation. It was rediscovered by Gotama Buddha more than 2500 years ago and was taught by him as a universal remedy for universal ills, i.e., an Art Of Living.

This non-sectarian technique aims for the total eradication of mental impurities and the resultant highest happiness of full liberation. Healing, not merely the curing of diseases, but the essential healing of human suffering, is its purpose.

Vipassana is a way of self-transformation through self-observation. It focuses on the deep interconnection between mind and body, which can be experienced directly by disciplined attention to the physical sensations that form the life of the body, and that continuously interconnect and condition the life of the mind. It is this observation-based, self-exploratory journey to the common root of mind and body that dissolves mental impurity, resulting in a balanced mind full of love and compassion.

The scientific laws that operate one's thoughts, feelings, judgements and sensations become clear. Through direct experience, the nature of how one grows or regresses, how one produces suffering or frees oneself from suffering is understood. Life becomes characterized by increased awareness, non-delusion, self-control and peace.

Also, this link might be helpful:

http://dharma.ncf.ca/introduction/instruct...structions.html

PS: Follow the Middle Path

Edited September 22, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[taxexile]

It is considered a "defilement" in Theravada Buddhist practice to use "Concentration" as a sort of "Mind Power". Concentration should be used to develop Vipassana, as follows:

i doubt if bina had any of the above on her mind when she decided to use her own method of relaxing herself before and during the dental procedure.

"concentration" should be used by anyone of any faith to relax themselves should they see fit to do so.

i dont think "concentration" or meditation or whatever anybody wants to call it is for the sole use of theravada buddhists.

well done bina.

you made the experience easier for youself , and easier for the dentist too , and if the dentist is relaxed knowing that the patient is also relaxed that means that the procedure was in all probability carried out correctly and to a high standard.

[kayo]

About four years ago I had a wisdom tooth pulled by a lady dentist around the corner from Thewet, and Sri Ayudajah road. She sat me back, asked me if I know meditation, and I said yes.... She said, "start now".... So i did... I came out with an awesome feeling, no pain killers, a tooth less.... Okay, so I did get drunk for a week afterwards, but it was pretty fun... Swear to god.

[khall64au]

Swear to god or pray to buddha.....?

Edited September 22, 2005 by khall64au

[kayo]

swear on the name of all that is sacred... (Khall, Icey, Bambi.... )

[Ice Maiden]

About four years ago I had a wisdom tooth pulled by a lady dentist around the corner from Thewet, and Sri Ayudajah road. She sat me back, asked me if I know meditation, and I said yes.... She said, "start now".... So i did... I came out with an awesome feeling, no pain killers, a tooth less.... Okay, so I did get drunk for a week afterwards, but it was pretty fun... Swear to god.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had mine pulled too.

Having my top ones removed soon so I'll keep this in mind.

[khall64au]

Warning: Do NOT try this at home boys and girls

[BambinA]

ok... i m not speaking about Buddhism stuff

but bina is so brave, i dont dare to do like her..

Bambi

[bina]

thanx taxexile and chownah

u got my point; was just relating an interesting event...

i wouldnt do this for full scale operation and dont enjoy pain but dont enjoy using something that doesnt stop after u get out of the chair but keeps u numb for an hour after etc... plus i react not well to many types of meds so this is the alternative... after all this reminds me of childbirth ; i didnt use anything for all three, the pain was there but has a definate, finate finish... its not chronic, and the alternatives have bad aftereffects also

it just seems to work, thats all and thought others might want to relate or hear about it...

maybe i'll start walking on nails next or something........

[Mr. Farang]

thanx taxexile and chownah

u got my point; was just relating an interesting event...

i wouldnt do this for full scale operation and dont enjoy pain but dont enjoy using something that doesnt stop after u get out of the chair but keeps u numb for an hour after etc... plus i react not well to many types of meds so this is the alternative... after all this reminds me of childbirth ; i didnt use anything for all three, the pain was there but has a definate, finate finish... its not chronic, and the alternatives have bad aftereffects also

it just seems to work, thats all and thought others might want to relate or hear about it...

maybe i'll start walking on nails next or something........  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear Khun Bina,

Your experience was very cool and what you did was great, please do not take my reply the wrong way. You can walk on nails if it pleases you!!

Thai Buddhist Monks generally teach Satipatthana Vipassana Meditation.

The following explanation of the Buddhist practice of mindfulness has been drastically abridged from the begining of the text SATIPATTHANA VISPASSANA MEDITATION by The Venerable Mahasi Sayadaw Agga Maha Pandita.

The method of developing Wisdom is to observe matter and mind which are the two sole elements existing in a body with a view to know them in their true form. At present times experiments in the analytical observation of matter are usually carried out in laboratories with the aid of various kinds of instruments; yet these methods cannot deal with mindstuff. The Buddhist method of does not, however, require any kind of instruments or outside aid. It can successfully deal with both matter and mind. It makes use of one's own mind for analytical purpose by fixing bare attention on the activities of matter and mind as they occur in the body. By continually repeating this form of exercise the necessary Concentration can be gained and when the Concentration is keen enough, the ceaseless course of arising and passing away of matter and mind will be vividly perceptible.

The body consists solely of the two distinct groups of matter and mind. The solid substance of body a mass of matter. Matter changes its form under physical conditions of heat, cold, etc., and because of this fact of changeableness under contrary physical conditions it is called Form (rupa). It does not possess any faculty of knowing an object. In the Abhidhamma, the proper name for the third division of the Buddhist scriptures, dealing with the metaphysical and psychological, the elements of mind and matter are classified differently as Things Which Possess Consciousness and Things Which Lack Consciousness (sarammana dhamma and anarammana dhamma) respectively. The element of mind has an object, or holds an object, or knows an object while that of matter does not have an object, nor holds an object, nor knows an object. There is no faculty of knowing an object in the element of matter.

A Yogi [meditator]also perceives in like manner, that is, "material element has no faculty of knowing." Logs and.,pillars, bricks and stones and lumps of earth are a mass of matter; they do not possess any faculty of knowing. It is the same case with material elements consisting in a living body; they have no faculty of knowing. The material elements in a dead body are like those,of a living body; they are without the faculty of knowing. But people have a general idea that material elements of a living body the faculty of knowing an object irrespective of the fact whether, it is in a dead or a living body.

Then what is that which knows the objects now? It is the element of mind which comes into being depending on matter. It is called Mind (nama) because it inclines to an object. Mind is also spoken of as "thought" or "consciousness." Mind-arises depending on matter as will be described hereafter. Depending on the eyes, eye consciousness (seeing) arises; depending on the ears, ear-consciousness (hearing) arises; depending on the nose, nose- consciousness (smelling) arises; depending on the tongue, tongue-consciousness (taste) arises; depending on the body, body-consciousness (sense of touch) arises. There are many kinds, either good or bad, of the sense of touch.

While it has a wide field of action by running throughout the whole length of body, inside and outside, the sense of sight, hearing, smell, or taste can on the other hand come into being respectively in its own particular sphere, such as eye, ear, nose, and tongue, which occupies a very small and limited space of the body. These senses of touch, sight, etc. are nothing but the elements of mind. Also there comes into being the mind-consciousness (i.e., thoughts, ideas, imaginations, etc.) depending on mind-base. All of these are elements of mind. Mind as a rule knows an object while matter does not know. People generally believe that, in the case of seeing, it is the eye which actually sees. They think that seeing and eye are one and the same thing. They also think, "Seeing is I: I see things: eye and seeing and I are one and the same person." In actual fact this is not so. Eye is one thing and seeing is another and there is no separate entity such as "I" or "Ego." There is only the fact of "seeing" coming into being depending on eye.

People who are without the training and knowledge of the Meditational Development of Insight (vipassana bhavana) hold the view that seeing belongs to or is "self, or ego, or living entity, or person." They believe that "Seeing is 1; or I am seeing; or I am knowing." This kind of view or belief is called the Erroneous View That There is a Self (sakkaya-ditthi). Sakkaya means the group of matter (rupa) and mind (nama) as they exist distinctively. Ditthi means to hold a wrong view of belief. The compound word of Sakkaya-ditthi means to hold a wrong view or belief on the dual set of Matter and Mind which are in real existence. For more clarity it will be explained further as to the manner of holding the wrong view or belief. At the moment of seeing, the things that are in actual existence are the eye and visual object of material group, and the seeing which belongs to mental group. These two kinds are in actual existence. Yet people hold the view that this group of elements is "self, or ego, or living entity." They consider that "seeing is I; or what is seen is I; or I see my own body." Thus this mistaken view is taken on the simple act of seeing as "self," which is Sakkaya-ditthi.

One should practice by constantly noting or observing every act of seeing, hearing, etc., which are the constituent physical and mental processes of the body, till one is freed from Sakkaya-ditthi. For these reasons advice is always given here to take up the practice of Vipassana Meditation.

In this respect the exercise is simply to note or observe the existing elements in every act of seeing. It should be noted as "seeing, seeing," on every act of seeing. (By the terms of note or observe or contemplate it means the act of keeping the mind fixedly on the object with a view to knowing clearly.) Because of this fact of keeping the mind fixedly by noting as "seeing, seeing," at times a visual object is noticed, at times consciousness of seeing is noticed, or at times it is noticed as eye-base or as a place from which it sees. It will serve the purpose if one can notice distinctly any one of the three. If not, basing on this act of seeing there will arise the erroneous view of self which will view it in the form of a person or belonging to a person and in the sense of Permanence, Happiness and Selfhood (nicca, sukha and atta), which will arouse attachment and craving. The Defilements will in turn prompt deeds, and the deeds will bring forth rebirth of new existence. Thus the process of dependent origination operates and the vicious circle of Samsara revolves incessantly. In order to prevent this from the source of seeing, it is necessary to note as "seeing, seeing" on every occasion of seeing.

Similarly, in the case of hearing, there are only two distinct elements of matter and mind. The sense of hearing arises depending on ear. While ear and sound are two elements of matter, the sense of hearing is an element of mind. In order to know clearly any one of these two kinds of matter and mind it should be noted as "hearing, hearing" on every occasion of hearing. So also it should be noted as smelling, smelling" on every occasion of smelling, and as "knowing, knowing" on every occasion of knowing the taste.

Similarly, case of knowing or feeling the sensation of touch in the body. There is a kind of material element known as Nerve Tissue (kaya-pasada) throughout the body which receives every impression of touch. Every kind of touch, either agreeable or disagreeable, usually comes in collision with Nerve Tissue and there arises a Touch Consciousness (kaya-vinnana) which feels or knows the touch on each occasion. It will now be seen that at every time of touching there are two elements of matter, viz, sense-organ and impression of touch, and one element of mind, viz, knowing of touch. In order to know these things distinctly at every time of touch the practice of noting as "touching, touching" has to be carried out. This merely refers to the common form of sensation of touch. There are special forms which accompany painful or disagreeable sensations, such as, to feel stiff or tired in the body or limbs, to feel hot, to feel pain, to feel numb, to feel ache, etc. Because Feeling (vedana) predominates in these cases, it should be noted as "feeling hot, feeling tired, painful, etc." as the case may be.

It may also be mentioned that there occur many sensations of touch in hands and legs, etc., on each occasion of bending, stretching, or moving. Because of mind wanting to move, stretch or bend, the material activities of moving, stretching, or bending, etc., occur in series. (It may not be possible to notice these incidents for the present. They can only be noticed after some time on gaining practice. It is mentioned here for the sake of Knowledge.) All activities in movements and in changing, etc., are done by these minds. When the mind wills to bend, there arises a series of inward movements of hand or leg; when the mind wills to stretch or move, there arises a series of outward movements or movements to and fro respectively. They disappear or are lost soon after they occur and at the very point of occurrence. (One will notice these incidents later on.)

In every case of bending, stretching or other activities, there arises in the foremost a series of intending or willing minds, and on account of which there occur in the hands and legs a series of material activities, such as stiffening (or being hard), bending, stretching, or moving to and fro. These activities.ties come up against other material elements, nerve tissue, and on every occasion of collision between material activities and sensitive qualities, there arises Touch Consciousness, which feels or knows the sensation of touch. It is, therefore, clear that material activities are the predominating factors in these cases. It is necessary to notice these predominating factors. If not, there will surely arise the wrong view of holding these activities in the sense of "I or I am bending, or I am stretching, or My hands, or My legs." This practice of noting as "bending, stretching, moving" is being carried out for the purpose of removing such a wrong view.

As regards "thoughts, imaginations, etc." it may be mentioned that depending on mind-base there arise a series of mental activities, such as thinking, imagining, etc., or to speak in a general sense, a series of mental activities arise depending on this body. In reality each case is a composition of matter and mind; mind-base or body is matter, while thinking, imagining, etc. are mind. In order to be able to notice matter and mind clearly, it should be noted as "thinking, imagining, etc." in each case. After having carried out the practice in the manner indicated above for a time, there may be an improvement in Concentration. One will notice that the mind no longer wanders about but remains fixedly on the object to which it is directed. At the same time the power of noticing has considerably developed. On every occasion of noting he notices only two processes of matter and mind. A dual set of object and mind, which makes note of. the object, is thus coming into existence.

Again on proceeding further with the practice of contemplation for some time, one notices that nothing remains permanent but everything is in a state of flux. New things arise each time: each of them is noted every time as it arises; it then vanishes. Immediately another arises, which is again noted and which then vanishes. Thus the process of arising and vanishing goes on, which clearly shows that nothing is permanent. One is therefore convinced that "things are not permanent" because it is noticed that they arise and vanish at every time of noting. This is Insight into impermanence (aniccanupassana-nana).

Then one is also convinced that arising and vanishing are not desirable. This is Insight into Suffering (dukkhanupassana-nana). Besides, one usually experiences many painful sensations in the body, such as tiredness, feeling hot, painful, aching, and at the time of noting these sensations he generally feels that this body is a collection of sufferings. This is also Insight into Suffering. Then at every time of noting it is found that elements of matter and mind occur according to their respective nature and conditioning, and not according to one's wish. One is therefore convinced that they are elements: they are not governable: they are not person or living entity. This is Insight into the Absence of a Self (anattanupassana-nana). On having fully acquired these knowledges of Impermanence, Suffering, Absence of Self (anicca, dukkha, anatta), the maturity of Spiritual Knowledge of the Path and Spiritual Knowledge of its Fruition (magga nana and phala nana) takes place and realization of Nirvana is won. By winning the realization of Nirvana in the first stage, one is freed from the round of rebirth in the unhappy life of lower existence. Everyone should, therefore, endeavor to reach the first stage as a minimum measure.

It has already been explained that the actual method of practice in Vipassana Meditation is to note or to observe or to contemplate the successive occurrences of seeing, hearing, etc., at six points or sense doors. However, it will not be possible for a beginner to follow up all successive incidents as they occur because his Mindfulness, Concentration and Spiritual Knowledge (sati, samadhi and nana) are still very weak. The incidents of seeing, hearing, etc. occur very swiftly. Seeing seems to occur at the time of hearing; hearing seems to occur at the time of seeing; it seems that both seeing and healing occur simultaneously. It seems that three or four incidents of seeing, hearing, thinking, and imagining usually occur simultaneously. It is not possible to distinguish which occurs first and which follows next because they occur so swiftly. In actual fact, seeing does not occur at the time of hearing nor does hearing occur at the time of seeing. Such incidents can occur one only at a time. A Yogi who has just begun the practice and who has not sufficiently developed Mindfulness, Concentration and Spiritual Knowledge will not, however, be in a position to observe all these incidents singly as they occur in serial order. A beginner need not therefore follow up many things, but should instead start with a few things. Seeing or hearing occurs only when due attention is given. If one does not pay heed to any sight or sound, one may pass the time mostly without any occasion of seeing or hearing. Smelling occurs rarely. Experience of taste occurs only at the time of eating. In the cases of seeing, hearing, smelling and tasting, the Yogi can note them when they occur.

However, body impressions are ever present: they usually exist quite distinctly all the time. During the time that one is sitting, the body impressions of stiffness or the sensation of hardness, in this position are distinctly felt. Attention should therefore be fixed on the sitting posture and a note made as "sitting, sitting, sitting."

Sitting is an erect posture of body consisting of a series of physical activities which are induced by the consciousness consisting of a series of mental activities. It is just like the case of an inflated rubber ball which maintains its round shape through the resistance of the air inside it: so is the posture of sitting, in which the body is kept in an erect posture through the continuous process of physical activities. A good deal of energy will be required to pull up and keep in an erect position such a heavy load as this body. People generally assume that the body is lifted and kept in the position by means of sinews. This assumption is correct in a sense because sinews, blood, tlesh, bones are nothing but material elements. The element of stiffening which keeps the body in an erect posture belongs to the material group and arises in the sinews, flesh, blood, etc. throughout the body like the air in a rubber ball. The element of stiffening is vayo-dhatu, the air element. The body is kept in the erect position by the presence of the Air Element in the form of stiffening, which is continually coming into existence. At the time of heavy drowsiness one may drop flat, because the supply of new materials in the form of stiffening is cut off. The state of mind in heavy drowsiness or sleep is Unconsciousness (bhavana). During the course of Unconsciousness mental activities are absent, and for this reason the body lies flat during sleep or heavy drowsiness. During waking hours strong and active mental activities are continually arising, and because of these there arises a series of Air Elements in the form of stiffening. In order to know these facts it is essential to note attentively as "sitting, sitting, sitting." This does not necessarily mean that the body impressions of stiffening should be particularly searched and noted. Attention need only be fixed on the whole form of sitting posture, that is, the lower portion in a bending circular forin and the upper portion in an erect posture.

It will be found that the exercise of observing a single object of sitting posture is too easy and does not require much effort. In the circumstances Vigor (viriya) is less and Concentration is in excess, and one would generally feel lazy to carry on the noting as "sitting, sitting, sitting," repeatedly for a considerable time. Laziness generally occurs when there is excess of Concentration and less Vigor. It is nothing but a state of Torpor (thina-midha). More Vigor should be developed, and for this purpose the number of objects for noting should be increased. After noting as "sitting," the attention should be. directed to a spot in the body where the sense of touch is felt and a note made as "touching." Any spot in the leg or hand or hip where a sense of touch is distinctly felt will serve the purpose. For example, after noting the sitting posture of the body as "sitting," the spot where the sense of touch is felt should be noted as "touching." The noting should thus be repeated on these two objects of sitting posture and the place of touching alternately, as "sitting, touching; sitting, touching; sitting, touching."

The terms noting or observing or contemplating are used here to indicate the fixing of attention on an object. The exercise is simply to note or observe or contemplate as "sitting, touching." Those who already have experience in the practice of meditation may perhaps find this exercise easy to begin with, but those without any previous experience may find it rather difficult to begin with.

The more simplified and easy form of exercise for a beginner is this: At every time of breathing there occur movements in the form of rising and falling of one's abdomen. A beginner should start with this exercise of noting or observing these movements. It is easy to observe these movements because they are coarse and prominent and are more suitable for a beginner. As in schools where simple lessons are easy to learn so is the case in the practice of Vipassana Meditation. A beginner will find it easier to develop Concentration and Spiritual Knowledge with a simple and easy exercise. Again, the purpose of the Vipassana Meditation is to begin the exercise by contemplating prominent factors in the body. Of the two factors of mind and matter, the mental element is subtle and less prominent while the material element is coarse and more prominent.

Therefore the usual procedure for one who practices the Vipassana insight meditation (vipassana-yanika) is to begin the exercise by contemplating the material elements at the outset. As regards material elements it may be mentioned here that Etheric Matter (upada-rupa) is subtle and less prominent while Dense Physical Matter (maha-buta), the four primary physical elements of Earth, Water, Fire and Air are coarse and more prominent and should therefore have the priority of being placed first in the order of objects for contemplation. In the case of rising and falling the outstanding factor is the Air Element. The process of stiffening and the movements of abdomen noticed during the contemplation are nothing but the functions of this element. Thus it will be seen that the Air Element is perceptible at the beginning. According to the instructions of Satipatthana Sutra, the discourse of the Buddha, dealing with the practice of mindfulness, one should be mindful of the activities of walking while walking, of those of standing, sitting, and lying down while standing, sitting, and lying down, respectively. One should also be mindful of other bodily activities as each of them occurs. In this connection it is stated in the commentaries that one should be mindful primarily of the Air Element in preference to the other three. As a matter of fact, all four elements of Dense Physical Matter are dominant in every action of the body, and it is essential to perceive any one of these. At the time of sitting, either of the two movements of rising and falling occurs conspicuously at every time of breathing, and a beginning should be made by noting one of these movements.

Yes, of course breathing control works to help control pain. It is simply breathing control. If you did the things in the quote above, you are doing, in your meditation, what the Buddha taught.

Very best wishes.

Yours sincerely, Mr. Farang

[taxexile]

The following explanation of the Buddhist practice of mindfulness has been drastically abridged

thank the lord (any one will do )for small mercies.

so there you go , next time youre in the dentists chair or you need to meditate a bit , recalling the contents of the above 300 paragraphs should do the trick.

it seems westerners who take up buddhism cant help from retaining the christian habit of proseletizing.

tell me i'm wrong mr. farang.

Edited September 23, 2005 by taxexile

[Abandon]

The following explanation of the Buddhist practice of mindfulness has been drastically abridged

thank the lord (any one will do )for small mercies.

so there you go , next time youre in the dentists chair or you need to meditate a bit , recalling the contents of the above 300 paragraphs should do the trick.

it seems westerners who take up buddhism cant help from retaining the christian habit of proseletizing.

tell me i'm wrong mr. farang.

nice one Tax!

Actually this muppet just became the first TV member to make my IGNORE list. Handy button that one....

[Oleg_Rus]

the dumbest troll ever!

next time, pls come with something funny, like thinking about doctor's underwear or running away from dentist without paying hefty bill.

but the one you wrote is far from anything, even less than troll, pity Attention Deficit Disorder patient

[chownah]

The following explanation of the Buddhist practice of mindfulness has been drastically abridged

thank the lord (any one will do )for small mercies.

so there you go , next time youre in the dentists chair or you need to meditate a bit , recalling the contents of the above 300 paragraphs should do the trick.

it seems westerners who take up buddhism cant help from retaining the christian habit of proseletizing.

tell me i'm wrong mr. farang.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually he truncated the short version to make it even shorter....it's from a link he posted in a previous post......I downloaded the entire thing and in my opinion it is great stuff....thank you Mr. Farang....I've been looking for just this information.

The idea of this stuff isn't that you should think of it from time to time....the idea is that if you do this stuff regularly your state of consciousness will change and Buddhists believe that it will change for the better.

[taxexile]

The idea of this stuff isn't that you should think of it from time to time....the idea is that if you do this stuff regularly your state of consciousness will change and Buddhists believe that it will change for the better.

more proselytizing.

gimme a break.

if you want to publicize your religious beliefs then go to the buddhist forum , or a street corner and try to attract a crowd.

this is (or was) a topic about relaxation in the dentists chair.

the op never mentioned religion or philosophical beliefs.

Edited September 23, 2005 by taxexile

[Tywais]

if you want to publicize your religious beliefs then go to the buddhist forum ,  or a street corner and try to attract a crowd.

the op never mentioned religion or philosophical beliefs.

Take a look at the top of the page and tell me where you are.

[Mr. Farang]

it seems westerners who take up buddhism cant help from retaining the christian habit of proseletizing.

tell me i'm wrong mr. farang. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmmm, this is the "Buddhist Forum" ..... in case you haven't noticed. You might also have noticed that Thailand is based on Theravada Buddhism. There are quite a few of us who actually *like* Thai culture and history (and language), that is why we post in the Buddhist Forum on (believe it or not) Buddhism - with an emphasis on Thai Buddhism.

Actually he truncated the short version to make it even shorter....it's from a link he posted in a previous post......I downloaded the entire thing and in my opinion it is great stuff....thank you Mr. Farang....I've been looking for just this information.

The idea of this stuff isn't that you should think of it from time to time....the idea is that if you do this stuff regularly your state of consciousness will change and Buddhists believe that it will change for the better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you Khun Chowah.

Yours sincerely,

Mr. Farang

Buddhist Quote of the Day -

Kamma - some people are more "sticky" than others.......

[Mr. Farang]

if you want to publicize your religious beliefs then go to the buddhist forum ,  or a street corner and try to attract a crowd.

the op never mentioned religion or philosophical beliefs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Take a look at the top of the page and tell me where you are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear Khun Tywais,

Sadly, TaxExile is a Forum Troll. That user ID along with another troll, has been on my ignore list for days, when it started trolling in the business forum, trolling about "immoral".....

Moderator. Please moderate these "troll posts" if you have a chance. Thank you. Let's get back on Buddhist topics, here is the Buddhist forum..... :-)

Yours sincerely,

Mr. Farang

Edited September 23, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[taxexile]

Take a look at the top of the page and tell me where you are.

oh dear !!

foot in mouth.

humble pie for breakfast etc.

sorry.

thought i was in one of the other forums.

any forgiveness will be gratefully accepted

Edited September 23, 2005 by taxexile

[middlepath]

IMHO, I thought what you did bina was very cool. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing what worked for you.

MP

[bina]

thank you to all for the interesting input; everyone's imput is acceptable (sp) and interesting;

oleg russia: i'm not a troll, ive been on this forum and was one of the original ones on the buddhist section. and the dentist had lots of nose hairs ... dont knockthe ADD patients, my daughter is attention deficit and has no problem reading thru things in her own way, time and system...

somebody somewhere had a quote from a monk that said something like: dont concern yourself with others, only your own self.... maybe neeranam, or someone, cant remember... so mr. farang, thank u for your concern, but in true theravada buddhism, your only concern should be self/lack thereof, and not someone else's self or lack of self but it was interesting reading as chowna said. (hey chowna how's studying going? )

just out of curiousity mr. farang, what is your background, etc?? also, we are friendly people out to discuss things, u dont have to react with anger all the folks posting here are known to me as long time good posters (oleg gets a little wierd and angry also sometimes though)

thanx middlepath

edit: mr. farang, i snipped this from a post of yours: just to remind u .....but u do have some good input

The elder Monk (might have been the famous Achan Buddhadasa at Wat Suan Mok, but I can't recall for sure), told me that I should concentrate on my practice and that everyone lives with their own kamma. He explained that it is not for us to judge the Sangha or each other, but to practice based on our own kamma.

My life became much more happy and peaceful when I stopped worrying about, or judging the actions of others, acccepted everyone as situated in their own kamma-moment, and focused on practicing Dhamma in all things for myself, based on my kamma-situation.

Edited September 23, 2005 by bina

[Mr. Farang]

just out of curiousity mr. farang, what is your background, etc??  also, we are friendly people out to discuss things, u dont have to react with anger  all the folks posting here are known to me as long time good posters (oleg gets a little wierd and angry also sometimes though)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear Khun Bina,

You asked about my background. Part of my background, now that you asked, is that I used to teach farangs Thai (Theravada) Buddhism under the direction of an Elder Thai Monk in a Thai Buddhist Temple. University students who were studying Buddhism would come to a Thai Temple and the Abbot would have me instruct the class and discuss the ideas with the university (and other) students - to teach them correctly and to help point "what the Buddha taught" and "what the Buddha did not teach."

I am happy, not in the least angry. I do believe that in the Buddhism Forum on TV, we should do our best to not misrepresent the teachings of the Buddha and we should not attribute concepts that are not Buddhist to Buddhism. I am sure a Senior Thai Monk would post the same thing if they were posting here.

Your post was very interesting and in my opinion, your post was very appropriate for the TV forum

Health, Body and Medicine

As I have kindly posted out, the Buddha taught that concentration of mind should be used to develop Wisdom. Using the concentration of mind for making a dental procedure more enjoyable is a meditation-style technique that existed before the Buddha, long before the life of the Buddha.

To help, I have posted numerous quotes attributed to the mind of the Buddha. The Buddha taught mental developing by following the Eight Fold Path. One of the key tools in this Path is Vipassana Bhavana. Pointing out this fact in the Buddhist forum is not "anger" it is an obligation and my duty, as someone who has been trained and basically "raised" in Thai Temple by Senior Thai Monks.

If you want to go to the dentist and concentrate your mind, picturing an image of the Buddha in your mind, to make your dental experience more enjoyable, that is absolutely fine. I am simply pointing as, based on Buddhist knowledge, out that this is not Buddhism or the teaching of the Buddha. The Buddha often pointed out, and corrected his Monks (Sangha) when they would use mental concentration techniques to concentrate on objects that are not on the Path.

For example, using mental concentration, one can do many very "interesting" things, like:

a. One can stop eating for many days, and concentrate and concentrate to emaciate your body.

-- The Buddha taught that this technique will not lead to enlightment.

b. One can concentrate on breathing and slow down the body so that the breath is very slow and shallow and the heart beats very slow.

-- The Buddha taught that strong concentration should be used for the development of Vipassana Bhavana, not demonstrating "body control".

c. One can concentrate the mind to delay sexual orgasm and extend pleasure.

-- The Buddha taught that strong concentration should be used for the development of Vipassana Bhavana, not demonstrating "body control".

Many people practice item C above, for example, - and really enjoy it - but it is not Buddhism, it is not Geometry, it is not Geology, it is a form of mind control. There are many non-Theravada Buddhist that attribute this form of mind control to the Buddha. However, Theravada Buddhist do not attribute this to the teachings of the Buddha, unless they do not understand what the Buddha taught.

I provided a copy of the ideas of Vispassa Bhavana, and a link to more information. If you truely admire and love the Buddha, please read and practice these ideas, and when you discuss the Buddha, please discuss in context of his very very very intelligent teachings.

Sorry, I did not mean to call what you did "silly' in a way to hurt you, Khun Bina. I simply feel an obligation to inform that what your did was not Buddhism or the teaching of the Buddha, whom you seem to love and greatly admire.

As for me, I will not be here on Thai Visa very long. It is not really a good use of my time. I simply feel an obligation to spend a few days to represent Theravada Buddhism correctly. My time posting here is temporary and I do not plan to take up resident on TV as a Forum Monk, laughing out loud. I am simply honoring the Buddha here on TV, nothing more.

Very Best Wishes. You take good care of yourself, na krap.

Yours sincerely,

Mr. Farang

Edited September 23, 2005 by Mr. Farang