Thaksins Drug War

[pauljones]

We hear lots of bad things about the former PM, Thaksin.

One of the charges is he ordered the killing of thousands of drug dealing suspects.

Why don't the police investigate this I wonder?

[H2oDunc]

Why would they ? It wasn't Thaksin doing the killings now was it? All it did prove was that even when you risked getting shot it didn't stop people selling drugs and the so called war on drugs is a sham !

[JurgenG]

When you go after drug dealers, you're a criminal.

This is Thailand, don't try to understand

[Jangot]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[whybother]

When you go after drug dealers, you're a criminal.

This is Thailand, don't try to understand

When you "go after drug dealers" and shoot innocent people, you're a criminal.

[metisdead]

A post with veiled speculation to HM the King has been removed. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.

[Crushdepth]

One of the charges is he ordered the killing of thousands of drug dealing suspects.

Why don't the police investigate this I wonder?

You might want to look into who carried out the killings.

[licentiapoetica]

One of the charges is he ordered the killing of thousands of drug dealing suspects.

Why don't the police investigate this I wonder?

You might want to look into who carried out the killings.

As I understand it this was a very popular move by Thaksin - and many people still think so. It had the (mostly silent) backing of most parties and politicians. It was mostly foreigners and foreign countries that got upset by Thaksin's murder of thousands. Different police districts were given quotas on how many people they had to kill - and the districts and local police stations made lists of people to fill these quotas. Many influential Thais managed to pay or influence the police to add or substitute names to these lists of personal enemies and business rivals. So many innocent people who had nothing to do with drugs were also killed. To open all this up now to investigation would be to open up a HUGE can of worms. Almost no one is interested in doing that.

[JurgenG]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Good question

My understanding is Thaksin was trying to get rid of the Isaan mafia. He thought he has such a grassroot support, he could go without the local power brokers,

Obviously he was wrong

[Crushdepth]

As I understand it this was a very popular move by Thaksin

Popular does not make it right or legal. I don't believe the bit about 'death quotas', but its obvious that the police would have taken the opportunity to remove more than just 'drug dealers'. The last thing we need is the police deciding who lives and who dies.

Especially in Thailand.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Crushdepth

[geriatrickid]

Mr. Thaksin's initiative to prevent narco terrorists and drug gangs from taking over the regions of the country has been investigated. The previous military junta that was no friend of Thaksin, cleared him of wrong doing.

As I understand it this was a very popular move by Thaksin

Popular does not make it right or legal. I don't believe the bit about 'death quotas', but its obvious that the police would have taken the opportunity to remove more than just 'drug dealers'. The last thing we need is the police deciding who lives and who dies.

Especially in Thailand.

The local police agencies were charged with carrying out the national policy. Unfortunately, the drug gangs had infiltrated several police regions and there were settling of accounts. This was not Thaksin's doing. He had to work with the civil authority. Although there were unfortunate deaths, many of those deaths that people try to pin on Thaksin were related to crimininal elements within the local authorities settling scores. As well, there was incompetence at the local level. Unfortunately, it was a national cirisis and the national government had to use the personnel available. On the whole, the crackdown was accepted by Thai society. Those most upset are the foreigners who were clueless to how the drug gangs had taken control of the police, judiciary and government in some regions. It can be argued that the Thaksin operation saved Thailand from become a Noreiga led Panama type country.

[jdinasia]

When you go after drug dealers, you're a criminal.

This is Thailand, don't try to understand

When you "go after drug dealers" and shoot innocent people, you're a criminal.

When you use death squads and execute people without a trial you are a criminal. To answer the OP, it is complicated but some of the cases may be reopened/investigated, but the police were involved so ......

Thaksin was never cleared, the case didn't move forward for various reasons....

http://www.economist.com/node/10566797?story_id=10566797

Yet a panel set up last year by the outgoing junta recently concluded the opposite: over half of those killed in 2003 had no links to the drugs trade. The panel blamed the violence on a government “shoot-to-kill” policy based on flawed blacklists. But far from leading to the prosecutions of those involved, its findings have been buried. The outgoing interim prime minister, Surayud Chulanont, took office vowing to right Mr Thaksin's wrongs. Yet this week he said there was insufficient evidence to take legal action over the killings.

It is easy to see why the tide has turned. Sunai Phasuk, a researcher for Human Rights Watch, a lobbying group, says that the panel's original report named the politicians who egged on the gunmen. But after the PPP won last month's elections, those names were omitted. It is a depressing reminder that the law in Thailand can seem at the service of its political masters, rather than the other way around.

[Kilgore Trout]

I believe there was an investigation and the results said there were no extra-judicial killings. All deaths were reported legitimate. Correct me if I am wrong.

[jdinasia]

I believe there was an investigation and the results said there were no extra-judicial killings. All deaths were reported legitimate. Correct me if I am wrong.

You are wrong -- see above quote from The Economist.

[Moonrakers]

Mr. Thaksin's initiative to prevent narco terrorists and drug gangs from taking over the regions of the country has been investigated. The previous military junta that was no friend of Thaksin, cleared him of wrong doing.

That just isn't true though, is it?

[Kilgore Trout]

I believe there was an investigation and the results said there were no extra-judicial killings. All deaths were reported legitimate. Correct me if I am wrong.

You are wrong -- see above quote from The Economist.

Apparently so, but the outcome is the same

[jdinasia]

I believe there was an investigation and the results said there were no extra-judicial killings. All deaths were reported legitimate. Correct me if I am wrong.

You are wrong -- see above quote from The Economist.

Apparently so, but the outcome is the same

Actually, not the same at all. A report stated that over 50% had no link to the drug trade. The report did not make any of the deaths legitimate. The cases may still be pursued if the political will is there.

[Moonrakers]

I believe there was an investigation and the results said there were no extra-judicial killings. All deaths were reported legitimate. Correct me if I am wrong.

You are wrong -- see above quote from The Economist.

Apparently so, but the outcome is the same

That's one hell of a spin.

There is a very, very big difference between being cleared of wrong-doing and there not being enough evidence to prosecute. A very big difference.

[lannarebirth]

Mr. Thaksin's initiative to prevent narco terrorists and drug gangs from taking over the regions of the country has been investigated. The previous military junta that was no friend of Thaksin, cleared him of wrong doing.

That just isn't true though, is it?

Excuse me for asking mister Gk, but are you looking for a job in the administration when Thaksin returns triumphantly?

Edited April 5, 2011 by lannarebirth

[jdinasia]

Mr. Thaksin's initiative to prevent narco terrorists and drug gangs from taking over the regions of the country has been investigated. The previous military junta that was no friend of Thaksin, cleared him of wrong doing.

That just isn't true though, is it?

Not even close to true.

[pauljones]

I read an interesting theory. Thaksin had the governers in each province draw up a suspect list. Police leaked the list and the kingpins, crooked police killed them to prevent them from being arrested and talking.

Sounds to me like he had a comprehensive plan but the mafia did their thing and Thaksins enemies used the event to smear him.

[Kilgore Trout]

I believe there was an investigation and the results said there were no extra-judicial killings. All deaths were reported legitimate. Correct me if I am wrong.

You are wrong -- see above quote from The Economist.

Apparently so, but the outcome is the same

That's one hell of a spin.

There is a very, very big difference between being cleared of wrong-doing and there not being enough evidence to prosecute. A very big difference.

Nobody said there wasn't a difference, only that the outcome is the same; no one will be brought to justice whether through lack of evidence, lack of will or lack of wrong doing.

[jdinasia]

I read an interesting theory. Thaksin had the governers in each province draw up a suspect list. Police leaked the list and the kingpins, crooked police killed them to prevent them from being arrested and talking.

Sounds to me like he had a comprehensive plan but the mafia did their thing and Thaksins enemies used the event to smear him.

and where pray tell did you hear this theory? Did you ever listen to what Thaksin himself said (or read the newspaper's translations of what he himself said?)

[jdinasia]

Nobody said there wasn't a difference, only that the outcome is the same; no one will be brought to justice whether through lack of evidence, lack of will or lack of wrong doing.

Not the same outcome either, had he been "cleared" then nothing ever could have come of it. Currently there is still a possibility of action. The question is will it ever come to trial on the "he ordered it" view alone as opposed to dealing with charging police officers etc?

The books are still open -- totally different than them being closed.

[DP25]

I read an interesting theory. Thaksin had the governers in each province draw up a suspect list. Police leaked the list and the kingpins, crooked police killed them to prevent them from being arrested and talking.

Sounds to me like he had a comprehensive plan but the mafia did their thing and Thaksins enemies used the event to smear him.

Was this in Truth Today?

[Moonrakers]

Nobody said there wasn't a difference, only that the outcome is the same; no one will be brought to justice whether through lack of evidence, lack of will or lack of wrong doing.

So why spin it by saying that the deaths were reported as legitimate, when they weren't?

[pauljones]

I read an interesting theory. Thaksin had the governers in each province draw up a suspect list. Police leaked the list and the kingpins, crooked police killed them to prevent them from being arrested and talking.

Sounds to me like he had a comprehensive plan but the mafia did their thing and Thaksins enemies used the event to smear him.

Was this in Truth Today?

One article I read claims there are 400 murders every month on average in Thailand.

During the 3 month drug war, there was an average of about 800 killings per month.

So it appears there were actually 1,200 killed in the drug war.

[jdinasia]

I read an interesting theory. Thaksin had the governers in each province draw up a suspect list. Police leaked the list and the kingpins, crooked police killed them to prevent them from being arrested and talking.

Sounds to me like he had a comprehensive plan but the mafia did their thing and Thaksins enemies used the event to smear him.

Was this in Truth Today?

One article I read claims there are 400 murders every month on average in Thailand.

During the 3 month drug war, there was an average of about 800 killings per month.

So it appears there were actually 1,200 killed in the drug war.

Where are these articles appearing? The number for Thaksin's war on drugs is significantly higher ... but please don't feel compelled to give any sources

[wintermute]

One reason why these things were never brought to trial was because a lot of high ranking political officials in the PAD "yellow shirt" faction were also involved. The whole extrajudicial killings and "tak bei" incident had a lot of Thais from different political factions all complicit with these incidents. This is why the cover up was so thorough. No one wants to talk about it because everyone was guilty.

[jdinasia]

One reason why these things were never brought to trial was because a lot of high ranking political officials in the PAD "yellow shirt" faction were also involved. The whole extrajudicial killings and "tak bei" incident had a lot of Thais from different political factions all complicit with these incidents. This is why the cover up was so thorough. No one wants to talk about it because everyone was guilty.

That's a great new rumor! Wanna give us a clue how you came about this morsel of info?