Thailand Admits Controversial Weapon Use

[webfact]

Thailand admits controversial weapon use

BANGKOK, April 7, 2011 (AFP) - Thailand on Thursday admitted using controversial weapons during a border clash with neighbouring Cambodia in February but insisted it did not classify them as cluster munitions.

Responding to accusations from campaigners, the Thai army said it had used Dual Purpose Improved Conventional Munitions (DPICM) during the recent heavy fighting on the shared border.

Thailand's foreign ministry also confirmed that the country had used the weapons but said they were "deployed on the basis of necessity, proportionality and strict code of conduct".

DPICMs burst into bomblets which are designed for both anti-armour and anti-personnel attack, according to GlobalSecurity.org, a US-based public policy organisation focusing on defence intelligence.

They are defined as cluster munitions by the global campaign group Cluster Munition Coalition (CMC), which on Wednesday slammed Thailand's use of the arms.

The group, which campaigns against the bombs, said the Thai-Cambodian conflict was the first confirmed use of cluster munitions anywhere in the world since the Convention on Cluster Munitions became international law.

The convention came into effect in August last year, requiring signatories to stop the use of the weapons, but neither Thailand nor Cambodia have signed the treaty.

CMC said the munitions have "caused large numbers of civilian casualties" when used by the United States in Afghanistan in 2001-2 and Iraq in 2003, as well as by Israel in Lebanon in 2006. Neither Israel or the US are listed as signatories of the convention.

The group detailed its own investigation of Cambodian government claims that the deadly munitions had landed on its territory in four days of unrest between the neighbours in early February.

The Thai ambassador to the United Nations in Geneva had confirmed the use of DPICMs "in self-defence" in a meeting with CMC on Tuesday, CMC said in a statement.

"It's appalling that any country would resort to using cluster munitions after the international community banned them," added CMC director Laura Cheeseman.

CMC said a cluster bomb had killed two Cambodian policemen during the February clashes and warned that thousands of people remained at risk from unexploded bomblets in several villages along the northern border.

Launched from the ground or dropped from the air, cluster bombs split open before impact to scatter multiple bomblets over a wide area. Many fail to explode and can lie hidden for decades.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-04-07

[bangon04]

"The group, which campaigns against the bombs, said the Thai-Cambodian conflict was the first confirmed use of cluster munitions anywhere in the world since the Convention on Cluster Munitions became international law."

Another HUB opportunity???

[whybother]

"The group, which campaigns against the bombs, said the Thai-Cambodian conflict was the first confirmed use of cluster munitions anywhere in the world since the Convention on Cluster Munitions became international law."

Another HUB opportunity???

"since the Convention on Cluster Munitions became international law."

All of 5 months.

[bangon04]

"Thailand's foreign ministry also confirmed that the country had used the weapons but said they were "deployed on the basis of necessity, proportionality and strict code of conduct"."

Yes. Killing policemen with cluster bombs during a border skirmish is so obviously the definition of proportionality. Let us hope that the southern insurgents in Thailand do not decide to buy some "lost" or "miscounted" cluster bombs from the army quartermaster and decide the proportionally use then against buddhist temples or school yards at 08:00 in the morning........

[londonthai]

border clashes, where there are civilians involved, are not a place to use this kind of weapons.

it's not a training ground for the soldiers.

thailand denied using them and accused cambodians of doing so - now they are admitting. What a bunch of loosers

[reason1]

Hello? Weapons are weapons and are usually controversial from the position of those who get hurt or killed by them; escalation is strictly a political negotiation tactic until those who receive the worse or get afeared of worse negotiate - of course there are lots of academic warriors in the media to make it all more exciting neh? price of bacon? Sq meter?

[whybother]

Hello? Weapons are weapons and are usually controversial from the position of those who get hurt or killed by them; escalation is strictly a political negotiation tactic until those who receive the worse or get afeared of worse negotiate - of course there are lots of academic warriors in the media to make it all more exciting neh? price of bacon? Sq meter?

The problem with cluster bombs is not the damage they do during the "war", it's the damage they do when the "war" is over.

[phiphidon]

Hello? Weapons are weapons and are usually controversial from the position of those who get hurt or killed by them; escalation is strictly a political negotiation tactic until those who receive the worse or get afeared of worse negotiate - of course there are lots of academic warriors in the media to make it all more exciting neh? price of bacon? Sq meter?

Price of a kids life? Eh?

[rubl]

Hello? Weapons are weapons and are usually controversial from the position of those who get hurt or killed by them; escalation is strictly a political negotiation tactic until those who receive the worse or get afeared of worse negotiate - of course there are lots of academic warriors in the media to make it all more exciting neh? price of bacon? Sq meter?

The problem with cluster bombs is not the damage they do during the "war", it's the damage they do when the "war" is over.

Similar to the mines laid years ago. Still casualties every year even though in some areas mines are actively cleared. The largest manufacturers haven't signed the convention of course

Edited April 7, 2011 by rubl

[reason1]

Do politicians the world over care about a $ about a kids life during or after a conflict? I am sure it is just money as I used to sell weapons for HMG UK and they were ready to kill me over commissions - mine and a regional prime ministers take - kids must be a cheap factor for Politicians - wonder why Libya is being bombed? Kids or money? Define terrorism? Religious/State/Oil?

[swillowbee]

... at the disposal of Thai generals better trained at running their illicit businesses from the back seat of their chauffeured Mercedes, cluster munitions are a tactical weapon exceeding the strategic reach of their users ... the results are animal inhumane, and not just to combatants ... cluster munitions are not combat, they are mindless slaughter by dullards incapable of mastering the art of combat.

... consider over history the advent of new weapons whose application wrought devastation on combatants until defensive strategies were fashioned to defend against them ... cases where the tactical firepower leapt past battlefield strategies:

(1) the broad sword (against which light armor of the day was no defence);

(2) the long bow (a key to the English defeat of the numerically superior, better trained and heavily armored French at Agincort);

(3) the barrel rifling (which overnight improved rifle accuracy from 50m to 200m);

(4) the rifle cartridge (which overnight gave riflemen 10 times the firepower of muzzle-loaders); and now,

(5) cluster munitions.

... so, now ... the Thais now have cluster munitions ... bad in anyone's hands, but a Thai? ... a weapon more powerful than they are probably trained to bear ... think ... impetuous teenager heading out the door with a sledge hammer to have at it with a neighborhood kid.

... in the hands of the Thai military, nothing good can come of cluster munitions.

Edited April 8, 2011 by swillowbee

[reason1]

... at the disposal of Thai generals better trained at running their illicit businesses from the back seat of their chauffeured Mercedes, cluster munitions are a tactical weapon exceeding the strategic reach of their users ... the results are animal inhumane, and not just to combatants ... cluster munitions are not combat, they are mindless slaughter by dullards incapable of mastering the art of combat.

... consider over history the advent of new weapons whose application wrought devastation on combatants until defensive strategies were fashioned to defend against them ... cases where the tactical firepower leapt past battlefield strategies:

(1) the broad sword (against which light armor of the day was no defence);

(2) the long bow (a key to the English defeat of the numerically superior, better trained and heavily armored French at Agincort);

(3) the barrel rifling (which overnight improved rifle accuracy from 50m to 200m);

(4) the rifle cartridge (which overnight gave riflemen 10 times the firepower of muzzle-loaders); and now,

(5) cluster munitions.

... so, now ... the Thais now have cluster munitions ... bad in anyone's hands, but a Thai? ... a weapon more powerful than they are probably trained to bear ... think ... impetuous teenager heading out the door with a sledge hammer to have at it with a neighborhood kid.

... in the hands of the Thai military, nothing good can come of cluster munitions.

I have a slight problem of attention span alone without a light in the middle of Cuci

[reason1]

I have a slight problem of attention span alone without a light in the middle of Cuci

sorry only two out of three levels

[swillowbee]

I have a slight problem of attention span alone without a light in the middle of Cuci

sorry only two out of three levels

... my ... that's just ... plain weird.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Hello? Weapons are weapons and are usually controversial from the position of those who get hurt or killed by them; escalation is strictly a political negotiation tactic until those who receive the worse or get afeared of worse negotiate - of course there are lots of academic warriors in the media to make it all more exciting neh? price of bacon? Sq meter?

You miss the basic point as to why these are regarded as being controvertial, and that is that after the skirmish is sorted out one way or the other then it is civilians (and children - simply curious as to what these large lumps of metal they've just found hidden in the bushes are for) that invariably get killed or have arms or legs blown off in the following decades after normality has been resumed. More conventional weapons however, which are also clearly designed to kill, will serve their purpose (immoral or not) during the term of the conflict and then cease to be of any danger to anyone as they won't exist anymore after they have exploded!!!

The occasional unexploded bomb is unlikely to kill or maim people in the same way that treading on or handling one of these bomb droplets (designed to cause maximum damage over a large area as possible) will do as they are generally much more highly visible and difficult to set off. NB: majestic animals such as elephants and other large animals are similarly threatened by these hidden killers as well it is worth bearing in mind.

It doesn't seem to be much of a treaty or pact of any worth if the chief perpetrators are non-signatories. This signals to me that those that invariably don't use these type of munitions have signed up whereas those that do and are still prepared to continue utilising this terrible weapon haven't - what use is that to anyone!!!!!!

[chuang]

Not suprising coming form THE ARMY who killed civilians on the street..

[Oberkommando]

The Thai Army caught lying again!

Nothing will ever change with this mob until they are properly brought to heel under a strong and effectual government with public support.

Sadly, this seems further off than ever now.

[Nawtier]

America should invade Thailand.

[samjaidee]

I have a slight problem of attention span alone without a light in the middle of Cuci

sorry only two out of three levels

What is Cuci?

Malaysian movie?

colitis ulcerosa crónica inespecífica (CUCI)?

Cuci The Musical?

Enlighten me please.

[PhilHarries]

The Thai Army caught lying again!

Winston Churchill (I believe): "The first victim of war is the truth".

Of course he always was truthful.

[PhilHarries]

[ It doesn't seem to be much of a treaty or pact of any worth if the chief perpetrators are non-signatories. This signals to me that those that invariably don't use these type of munitions have signed up whereas those that do and are still prepared to continue utilising this terrible weapon haven't - what use is that to anyone!!!!!!

Apologies for the double dip but I meant to reply to this one at the same time.

You answered your own question before you asked it. Basically it's like most treaties, ignored before the ink dries.

[SICHONSTEVE]

[ It doesn't seem to be much of a treaty or pact of any worth if the chief perpetrators are non-signatories. This signals to me that those that invariably don't use these type of munitions have signed up whereas those that do and are still prepared to continue utilising this terrible weapon haven't - what use is that to anyone!!!!!!

Apologies for the double dip but I meant to reply to this one at the same time.

You answered your own question before you asked it. Basically it's like most treaties, ignored before the ink dries.

Yes, that's the probem in a nutshell. They sign up to these things and then proceed to break them when the first opportunity presents itself. If they don't intend to abide by them then why on earth do they sign them in the first place in the false pretence that they are serious about commiting to the cause.

The whole thing is one big joke - it's just a shame that some of these treaties (if they were to work as intended) would resolve some serious problems and international disputes, but that almost invariably takes a back seat to the signatories own national interests, at the expense of the treaties main aims naturally. Result - nothing gets done and nothing is achieved. Quite sad really!!!!

[reason1]

I have a slight problem of attention span alone without a light in the middle of Cuci

sorry only two out of three levels

What is Cuci?

Malaysian movie?

colitis ulcerosa crónica inespecífica (CUCI)?

Cuci The Musical?

Enlighten me please.

Cuci is the name and location for the maze of tunnels the Vietcong used against the USA not too far from Saigon brilliant amazing creepiest place on the planet some entrances were hidden under water there probably still are enlarged tunnels for tourists to experience the danger and thrills. There is a book The Tunnel Rats about the brave American soldiers who fought the brave Vietcong down the tunnels.