Teachers Don'T Need Work Permits.

[appropriate]

I do not think anyone whose interpretation of the exemption might count would construe your showing up to teach English to a bunch of 12 year olds a 'duty' or 'mission' in the context of all the other exemptions mentioned by SunBelt.

'In the context' isn't valid. Their statement is any (all and every) duty.

Edited April 9, 2011 by appropriate

[transam]

Didn't l read here (forum) that a load of farangs working teaching in Bangkok with no WP got deported ?.

[jazzbo]

In the interpretation of statute or regulation 'context' is always valid ... but in this matter my opinion and even yours is irrelevant; it is what you can convince the responsible Labor Min official that your interpretation is valid.

.. but I would guess they would simply say: You have not entered the Kingdom in any way shape or form to perform any kind of mission or duty whatsoever

Edited April 9, 2011 by jazzbo

[appropriate]

Didn't l read here (forum) that a load of farangs working teaching in Bangkok with no WP got deported ?.

Probably not. Possibly for submitting fake degrees, but I'm personally unaware of ever seeing a teacher be arrested for simply teaching without a WP.

[appropriate]

In the interpretation of statute or regulation 'context' is always valid ...

Not with reference to the statement, which is all.

[Mugg]

or else why does everyone have to have one?

Do they?

Who told you that, some clueless Thai school admin or some officer of some ministry that wouldn't know the rules with the rule book open in front of them?

Your right , now that you mention "Clueless" I see your point Right Guys :jerk::hit-the-fan:great argument.... All Thais are Clueless and only you have the right interpretation..

[Mugg]

In the interpretation of statute or regulation 'context' is always valid ...

Not with reference to the statement, which is all.

Can we please argue about STOP signs and what they mean ?

[NanLaew]

Oh dear.... any more of this 'debate' and the country really will be flooded with plumbers, cab drivers and brickies...

(I am hoping to get a real electrician)

[jazzbo]

Fine ... tell it to the judge.

[Mugg]

Didn't l read here (forum) that a load of farangs working teaching in Bangkok with no WP got deported ?.

If they did not go through the OP house on the way out of country, then it did not happen...PERIOD

[Mugg]

Oh dear.... any more of this 'debate' and the country really will be flooded with plumbers, cab drivers and brickies...

(I am hoping to get a real electrician)

Stop belly aching, ground wires are for pussies.. whats a little 220 jolt first thing in the morning with your shower...

[Ijustwannateach]

It seems that OP has resorted mainly to hairsplitting to continue this discussion. In the absence of actual evidence of his claim or any other pertinent real material, I think this thread should wind up pretty soon.

[appropriate]

Your right , now that you mention "Clueless" I see your point Right Guys :jerk::hit-the-fan:great argument.... All Thais are Clueless and only you have the right interpretation..

I suggest you read Forum Rule number 7 & 8 before you're given a little holiday.

It seems that OP has resorted mainly to hairsplitting to continue this discussion. In the absence of actual evidence of his claim or any other pertinent real material, I think this thread should wind up pretty soon.

Sunbelt explaining themselves would help wrap it up. George has emailed them. Should be replying soon.

And no hairspliting, simply reading what SB states.

I personally will stay out of the thread until then, unless they forget to reply.

Edited April 9, 2011 by appropriate

[Mugg]

duty or mission for the benefit of education, culture, arts, or sports ....so if a Soccer players can not get a work permit before the first period is over none of the points might not count. I see your point now :jap:

[WarpSpeed]

Sure you can teach, but without a work permit, you cannot work, hence you cannot be paid...

Payment has nothing to do with a WP.

Volunteers earning nothing are required to possess a WP. Unless, as per the sunbelt rules, they're teaching (performing a duty for the benefit of education), culture, sports, arts.

You can also work (paid) without a WP under various exemptions. Being paid has nothing to do with a WP.

Thank you Appropriate I had seen this page in my searches some time ago and couldn't remember where it was located.. I've been trying to tell people this for some years now especially in terms of sports as in motorsports ..

[WarpSpeed]

I may have to get a new prescription for lenses for my spectacles, because neither in the text to which you linked nor in the entire text of the Alien Working Act do I see the words "teaching" or "teachers" or "teach".

Is teaching a duty for the benefit of education?

I'm afraid it is. Do you disagree? What else do you view teaching to be then?

Aside from that, Sunbelt is not "declaring" anything to that effect on the web page you cited. True, their failure to cite the source can give the impression that the text on that page is their interpretation of the law, their declaration, but it is in fact simply the translation of some text from a law. You are putting words into their mouth by saying that they are declaring that teachers are exempt from needing a work permit.

I'm afraid that they are.

Exemptions from the Work Permit requirement are granted to persons occupying the following professions:

Persons who enter the Kingdom for the performance of any duty for the benefit of education.

People performing any duty for the benefit of education are exempt from the WP requirement.

How much clearer does that need to be?

Any duty...

Honestly I think you're interpretation is spot on but sadly it's getting the authors and enforcers to understand, that is the major obstacle. Take for example the visa reporting and how it varies from office to office no uniformity whatsoever, it seems that the powers that be can write their own interpretations and try to inform otherwise runs up against that loss of face thing so a loss all around I'm afraid..

Edited April 9, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[appropriate]

Honestly I think you're interpretation is spot on but sadly it's getting the authors and enforcers to understand, that is the major obstacle. Take for example the visa reporting and how it varies from office to office no uniformity whatsoever, it seems that the powers that be can write their own interpretations and try to inform otherwise runs up against that loss of face thing so a loss all around I'm afraid..

[buttingbackin]

sorry, just to comment on this.

Yes, I went to immigration last year (this thread topic has nothing to do with my situation btw) I was informed at the desk that the extension I wanted was impossible. Doesn't exist.

I showed them a previous one.

Oh, they said, surprised.

In to the immigration booth and the nice officer said the exact same thing, impossible, cannot. Until I showed her the previous extension she herself had given 60 days before.

Oh... these documents okay (without looking at them first), can. She said.

Amazing I said to the wife, I have to inform two separate immigration officers of their own immigration policy.

Point of the story, anyone who listens to what a local official tells them and takes it as the truth is well, I better not say.

Just because an official at some ministry tells you something, it certainly doesn't make it correct or truthful.

Edit: To edit in an other story a friend in Isahn was told that as a foreigner he could not get a 5 yr driving license after his 1 year one. Simply cannot. No way would they listen or contact any head office over it. Refused blindly that it was anyway possible. Had to go to BKK and get it there and actually got them to phone the district office to inform them. Went back in when he got back to show his 5 yr license, and demand answers as to why they wouldn't give him one, well, the show made many low ranking buffaloes officers lose substantial face. The problem was that the fax informing them of such a law was never received, farang made fax machines not good, many problems apparently.

[/buttingbackin]

Edited April 9, 2011 by appropriate

[WarpSpeed]

Honestly I think you're interpretation is spot on but sadly it's getting the authors and enforcers to understand, that is the major obstacle. Take for example the visa reporting and how it varies from office to office no uniformity whatsoever, it seems that the powers that be can write their own interpretations and try to inform otherwise runs up against that loss of face thing so a loss all around I'm afraid..

[buttingbackin]

sorry, just to comment on this.

Yes, I went to immigration to immigration (this thread topic has nothing to do with my situation btw) I was informed that at the desk that the extension I wanted was impossible.

I showed them a previous one.

Oh, they said.

In to the immigration booth and the nice officer said the exact same thing, impossible, cannot. Until I showed her the previous extension she herself had given 60 days before.

Oh, these documents okay, can. She said.

Point of the story, anyone who listens to what a local official tells them and takes it as the truth is well, I better not say.

Just because an official at some ministry tells you something, it certainly doesn't make it correct or truthful.

[/buttingbackin]

I agree, if I know better and usually I do having researched prior, I never take "mai me" or "mai dai" for an answer just pointing out the difficulties in doing so...

[appropriate]

I agree, if I know better and usually I do having researched prior, I never take "mai me" or "mai dai" for an answer just pointing out the difficulties in doing so...

Completely agree, with most things here, not only government officials. You have to research what you're doing, and not accept the lazy 'cannot' or 'not have' that the inept, incompetent and lazy say to get out of actually doing their job.

Of course we should just say 'mai pen rai' and smile in order to keep social harmony.

[Mario2008]

Sunbelt is not declaring anything, it is a translation of what the law says (and that is not that a teacher doesn't need a work permit). But the law remains silence on what can be understood as performing a duty.

I believe the same exemption is made regarding sport, in which case it probably means that for instance persons participating in the ASIA games when held in Thailand don't need a work permit.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Sunbelt Asia simply took their wording directly from the Thai government, found here:

http://www.boi.go.th/french/how/legal_issues_for_foreign_investors.asp

2.1. Exemptions

The Act grants exemptions from the work permit requirement to persons occupying the following professions:

– Members of the diplomatic corps

– Members of consular missions

– Representatives of member countries and officials of the United Nations and its specialized agencies

– Personal servants coming from abroad to work exclusively for persons listed under the above items

– Persons who perform duties on missions in the Kingdom under an agreement between the government of Thailand and a foreign government or international organization

– Persons who enter the Kingdom for the performance of any duty or mission for the benefit of education, culture, arts, or sports

– Persons who are specially permitted by the Thai Government to enter and perform any duty or mission in the Kingdom

[sunbelt][/sunbelt]

[WarpSpeed]

Sunbelt is not declaring anything, it is a translation of what the law says (and that is not that a teacher doesn't need a work permit). But the law remains silence on what can be understood as performing a duty.

I believe the same exemption is made regarding sport, in which case it probably means that for instance persons participating in the ASIA games when held in Thailand don't need a work permit.

So what about a season which does not run temporarily?? I don't see it..

[jazzbo]

I think the OP is actually missing the larger point as the SunBelt listing in post #1 comes from the 'Alien Working Act' and -- as he most likely was born right here on planet Earth -- the Act itself should not apply to him.

[WarpSpeed]

Persons who are specially permitted by the Thai Government to enter and perform any duty or mission in the Kingdom

So by this quote it distinguishes between "invitation" by saying "specially permitted" from the suggestion that it is for invitation purposes application only...

[appropriate]

Sunbelt is not declaring anything, it is a translation of what the law says (and that is not that a teacher doesn't need a work permit). But the law remains silence on what can be understood as performing a duty.

They are declaring the info in the OP.

They neither mention that the info is a translation (which it obviously is) or may not be correct.

Again, 'a duty' is used, sunbelt declare 'any duty', as a 'profession'. Not as some visiting soccer player or whatever.

They declare that.

Exemptions from the Work Permit requirement are granted to persons occupying the following professions

Persons who enter the Kingdom for the performance of any duty or mission for the benefit of education,

That is what they declare on their website.

Edited April 9, 2011 by appropriate

[sbk]

Sunbelt is not declaring anything, it is a translation of what the law says (and that is not that a teacher doesn't need a work permit). But the law remains silence on what can be understood as performing a duty.

They are declaring the info in the OP.

They neither mention that the info is a translation (which it obviously is) or may not be correct.

Again, 'a duty' is used, sunbelt declare 'any duty', as a 'profession'. Not as some visiting soccer player or whatever.

They declare that.

Exemptions from the Work Permit requirement are granted to persons occupying the following professions

Persons who enter the Kingdom for the performance of any duty or mission for the benefit of education,

That is what they declare on their website.

curious if you noted Sunbelt's above answer or bothered to look at their link???

[appropriate]

Sunbelt Asia simply took their wording directly from the Thai government, found here:

http://www.boi.go.th...n_investors.asp

2.1. Exemptions

The Act grants exemptions from the work permit requirement to persons occupying the following professions:

– Members of the diplomatic corps

– Members of consular missions

– Representatives of member countries and officials of the United Nations and its specialized agencies

– Personal servants coming from abroad to work exclusively for persons listed under the above items

– Persons who perform duties on missions in the Kingdom under an agreement between the government of Thailand and a foreign government or international organization

– Persons who enter the Kingdom for the performance of any duty or mission for the benefit of education, culture, arts, or sports

– Persons who are specially permitted by the Thai Government to enter and perform any duty or mission in the Kingdom

[sunbelt][/sunbelt]

Thanks.

No difference to the info given in the OP.

The Act grants exemptions from the work permit requirement to persons occupying the following professions:

Persons who enter the Kingdom for the performance of any duty or mission for the benefit of education

This point (subsection) has no written connection to the other points (subsections) including the subsection referring to being invited by the government , only to the main section heading - The Act grants exemptions from the work permit requirement to persons occupying the following professions

Thus written as such, declare that those with a profession that is the performance of any duty for the benefit of education, whether invited or not, are exempt from the WP requirements. So given the info stated, it doesn't matter if one is invited or not.

Unless of course one has to fall under all the subsections - they're a member of the diplomatic corps, and on a consular mission, and a member of the UN, and invited by the gov. etc.

Edited April 9, 2011 by appropriate

[jdinasia]

Appropriate ---- you are missing the implication of duty or mission. But please feel free to keep banging your head against the wall

[appropriate]

curious if you noted Sunbelt's above answer or bothered to look at their link???

Yup. Under the Thai government's board of investment declaration those who hold a profession that is the performance of any duty for the benefit of education are exempt from the WP requirements.

No other points given by the BoI are tied into it.

Thus those who possess a teaching duty, as a profession for the benefit of education in Thailand are exempt.

You don't agree, with that analysis?

Edited April 9, 2011 by appropriate

[Mario2008]

Sunbelt mearly states the rules, as given by the Thai government.

Perhaps the OP forgets that being on mission (to teach) is not the same as performing a mission or duty.