You Are To Blame For Thailand's Appalling Politics

[rucker4012]

I have no politcal leanings in Thailand as I can't vote anyway, but I'm astonished that this article fails to mention the 2006 coup. Whether justified or not, how are voters to be blamed for the consequences of this exactly? It's a strange position to take, I feel.

I'm not Thai and don't care about politics one way or another, but I've lived here since 2005 and I've seen and experienced for myself the difference post-coup in increased anti-social behavior, drug use and crime in the area I live. Lots of things like the 2am closing time for pubs, for example, were just forgotten where once they were strictly enforced. I know Thaksin's government got lots of heat from Amnesty International for their 'war on drugs' but my experience and perception of living here as a foriegner is that generally respect for rule of law is not what it once was.

Well said. In Phuket I've also seen rule of law no longer followed. Tuk-Tuk "mafia" can demonstrate to retain a monopoly for cruise ships and U.S. Navy ships at local port.

[selftaopath]

These people are sick mofos and have no care about civil rights, the law or shooting innocent bystanders. It is indeed sad and regretable that some people may have died due to the negligence....

When I read this part of your post I flashed on Thai police, Thai politicians, and rich/infomercial Thai families.

People of power in Thailand think little a/b the well being of the Kingdom, but insist on their own coffers being full and overflowing.

[AZBill]

To some extent you could make the same arguments about the US government as well. Our representitives are either wealthy and want to protect it on the backs of the people, or we get those who want to become wealthy and powerful at the taxpayers' expense. It is ironic that we put the most selfish, corrupt and egocentric people in as guardians of the public trust. They are undoubtedly the worst kind of people we could possibly have in these positions. Of course there are exceptions like Abraham Lincoln, George Washington and Ronald Reagan in our country who were true patriots, and there are others, but they are few and far between. The best we can do is have a system that allows us to get rid of the bad apples. Legitimate elections are required of course and that is the true power of the US Republic, as is our tripartite system of government and the concept of limited federal power. Thailand may appear to have some of these things in place, but in reality they do not. A coupe in the US would be impossible but a very real threat in Thailand. Of course we have those that try to corrupt the election system like ACORN in the last election, but we hold those people to account and they are now on trial for election fraud. It's just business as usual in Thailand and anyone who questions the veracity of elections are dealt with harshly. Term limits are a must. In the US we only have them for our President but lawmakers should also be subject to term limits to prevent empire building at the expense of the taxpayers. We see this just as clearly in the US as in Thailand but we still do nothing about it because as long as a representitive or senator is bringing home the bacon to his state or district, the voters care very little about what shenanigans he may be involved in at the federal level, and the longer they keep him in office, the more power he gets and the more benefits that come back to the locals. There is, however, a line that cannot be crossed in the US. That line does not seem so clear in Thailand. Our police in the US are trusted and are highly regarded. We have our bad apples but we do not tolerate them, and bribery is not in most policemen's vocabulary and will get you thrown in jail if you tried to offer one. The police in Thailand are some of the most corrupt in the world and an embarrasment to your country. But again, you do nothing and accept it as business as usual. Systems and laws are useless if the citizenry does not hold their representitives responsible to that system or look the other way. You fear the power of your military being used against your own people. Again, those in charge of the military must be held to account by the people. A people united and committed against tyranny are far more powerful than the military as our revolution against England proved. Until Thailand as a country embraces the rule of law and puts that principal above any individual or group, very little progess will ever be made. You may be able to copy our DVDs and CDs, but you can't just simply try to copy our government and the character of our people! This one you need to create on your own. I'd love to see it happen!

Edited April 10, 2011 by AZBill

[Thaddeus]

just as I carry the belief that the Thai people are also entitled to make their own decisions, learn by their own mistakes and progress at their own speed towards the materialistic melee so prominent in the so called civilised western world.

One thing is certain, they are not going to get a speeding ticket.

[whybother]

The usual difficulty with following logic is because a person wishes it to lead to particular preferred conclusion..........perhaps because I have no such aims.......yes, there will be many on Tvisa who will struggle to accept my logic......

It's not accepting your logic that's the problem. It's understanding it.

You obviously want to lead me to your conclusion, but without me understanding, and without you telling me, what your conclusion is.

[ib1b4]

just as I carry the belief that the Thai people are also entitled to make their own decisions, learn by their own mistakes and progress at their own speed towards the materialistic melee so prominent in the so called civilised western world.

One thing is certain, they are not going to get a speeding ticket.

Finally a senior member that can show some humour, I love it.

[swillowbee]

"There seems to be a big disconnect between our elected leaders and the general public."

________________________________________________________________________________________

... I disagree ... whole-heartedly ... I believe there is a very clear and indelible connect between elected Thai leaders and the Thai general public.

... stated simply, representative democracy works ... the values and character of the elected body of Thai politicians does indeed accurately reflect the values and character of the Thais who elected them ... while the average Thai voter is illiterate, they are not necessarily stupid.

... representative government is a remarkable institution when viewed simply for what it is, without all the "implied this", or "indicative that", or "inferred this other thing" ... look at representative democracy plainly and unvarnished, with the bark still on ... people elect politicians who reflect their own values.

... most of what we read as "problems" in Thailand appear to me as mere "symptoms" of the problem ... the root problem in Thailand is inferior cultural values ... until that problem is solved, pervasive corruption and incompetence (public and private) and the rising threat of a dysfunctional society and an ungovernable nation will persist.

... I'd like to think it is about Thailand teaching it's children (this generation is pretty much shot) ... but, sadly, there exist no Thai institutions (social, spiritual, governmental) with the moral stature to lead such a massive cultural renaissance in a nation with such a decayed third world social infrastructure ... and there exist no Thomas Jeffersons, Mohandas Ghandis, or Nelson Mandelas in Thailand.

... and Thailand's future doesn't appear good in this respect:

(i) Children with inferior values can be raised by parents with good values;

(ii) Few children with good values are raised by parents with inferior values;

(iii) Parents with inferior values largely raise children with inferior values; and,

(iv) Parents with inferior values breed, and they vote.

... if you accept this basic assumption, then the math becomes simple.

... well ... it seems simple enough to me ... have I over-simplified the situation?

Edited April 10, 2011 by swillowbee

[yoshiwara]

The fact of the matter is that Thaksin used the civil authorities to respond to what was for all intents and purposes an attempt by organized crime syndicates and cartels to control Thailand.

Actually, this isn't too far off the mark. Then, the military had to step in to stop Thaksin, who was trying to set himself up as the replacement to that organized crime syndicate, who he only removed because they stood as an impediment to his attempts to establish himself as supreme dictator.

Many of the Thaksin lovers on this board gloss over that inconvenient fact.

As for myself, my heart goes out to the brave military soldiers who risked their reputations in 2006 to oust the murderous, cretinous demigogue who cared nothing for the Thai people. And a similar word of praise to those soldiers who last year did their duty and stopped the violent red movement including the hideous men in black who were trying to return that evil barbarian to the peaceful Thai shores through unconscionable violence.

May the military always be there to protect us peace loving people from those violent red murderers.

Saturday night on Thai Visa...isn't it fun?

Speaking of organised crime, once you picture Thaksin as a self-proclaimed 'Godfather', so much of his politics easily slots into place.

[473geo]

The usual difficulty with following logic is because a person wishes it to lead to particular preferred conclusion..........perhaps because I have no such aims.......yes, there will be many on Tvisa who will struggle to accept my logic......

It's not accepting your logic that's the problem. It's understanding it.

You obviously want to lead me to your conclusion, but without me understanding, and without you telling me, what your conclusion is.

Thank you for making my point so clear

[whybother]

The usual difficulty with following logic is because a person wishes it to lead to particular preferred conclusion..........perhaps because I have no such aims.......yes, there will be many on Tvisa who will struggle to accept my logic......

It's not accepting your logic that's the problem. It's understanding it.

You obviously want to lead me to your conclusion, but without me understanding, and without you telling me, what your conclusion is.

Thank you for making my point so clear

Yes, your point that no one can understand your "logic" or knows what your point is.

[473geo]

The usual difficulty with following logic is because a person wishes it to lead to particular preferred conclusion..........perhaps because I have no such aims.......yes, there will be many on Tvisa who will struggle to accept my logic......

It's not accepting your logic that's the problem. It's understanding it.

You obviously want to lead me to your conclusion, but without me understanding, and without you telling me, what your conclusion is.

Thank you for making my point so clear

Yes, your point that no one can understand your "logic" or knows what your point is.

yep just add the blue highlighted line above and you have it.......... thanks......... see you make my point so well

[selftaopath]

To some extent you could make the same arguments about the US government as well. Our representitives are either wealthy and want to protect it on the backs of the people, or we get those who want to become wealthy and powerful at the taxpayers' expense. It is ironic that we put the most selfish, corrupt and egocentric people in as guardians of the public trust. They are undoubtedly the worst kind of people we could possibly have in these positions. Of course there are exceptions like Abraham Lincoln, George Washington and Ronald Reagan in our country who were true patriots, and there are others, but they are few and far between. The best we can do is have a system that allows us to get rid of the bad apples. Legitimate elections are required of course and that is the true power of the US Republic, as is our tripartite system of government and the concept of limited federal power. Thailand may appear to have some of these things in place, but in reality they do not. A coupe in the US would be impossible but a very real threat in Thailand. Of course we have those that try to corrupt the election system like ACORN in the last election, but we hold those people to account and they are now on trial for election fraud. It's just business as usual in Thailand and anyone who questions the veracity of elections are dealt with harshly. Term limits are a must. In the US we only have them for our President but lawmakers should also be subject to term limits to prevent empire building at the expense of the taxpayers. We see this just as clearly in the US as in Thailand but we still do nothing about it because as long as a representitive or senator is bringing home the bacon to his state or district, the voters care very little about what shenanigans he may be involved in at the federal level, and the longer they keep him in office, the more power he gets and the more benefits that come back to the locals. There is, however, a line that cannot be crossed in the US. That line does not seem so clear in Thailand. Our police in the US are trusted and are highly regarded. We have our bad apples but we do not tolerate them, and bribery is not in most policemen's vocabulary and will get you thrown in jail if you tried to offer one. The police in Thailand are some of the most corrupt in the world and an embarrasment to your country. But again, you do nothing and accept it as business as usual. Systems and laws are useless if the citizenry does not hold their representitives responsible to that system or look the other way. You fear the power of your military being used against your own people. Again, those in charge of the military must be held to account by the people. A people united and committed against tyranny are far more powerful than the military as our revolution against England proved. Until Thailand as a country embraces the rule of law and puts that principal above any individual or group, very little progess will ever be made. You may be able to copy our DVDs and CDs, but you can't just simply try to copy our government and the character of our people! This one you need to create on your own. I'd love to see it happen!

Thank you AZBill, I agree entirely. I think your post ought to be re-copied on several forums/topics. Maybe it ought to be sent to local newspapers. Certainly it would be NEWS to the typical Thai.

K.

[whybother]

yep just add the blue highlighted line above and you have it.......... thanks......... see you make my point so well

Isn't that what an argument is all about? You're trying to convince me that you're right, and I'm trying to convince you that I'm right.

To do that we have to lead each other to a particular conclusion based on facts and opinions.

Otherwise, why are we here?

[473geo]

yep just add the blue highlighted line above and you have it.......... thanks......... see you make my point so well

Isn't that what an argument is all about? You're trying to convince me that you're right, and I'm trying to convince you that I'm right.

To do that we have to lead each other to a particular conclusion based on facts and opinions.

Otherwise, why are we here?

I prefer the word discussion.......and I don't need to convince anybody.........you are doing that for me ....thanks

[jdinasia]

yep just add the blue highlighted line above and you have it.......... thanks......... see you make my point so well

Isn't that what an argument is all about? You're trying to convince me that you're right, and I'm trying to convince you that I'm right.

To do that we have to lead each other to a particular conclusion based on facts and opinions.

Otherwise, why are we here?

I prefer the word discussion.......and I don't need to convince anybody.........you are doing that for me ....thanks

I rather doubt he is swaying anyone in your direction.

[SteeleJoe]

yep just add the blue highlighted line above and you have it.......... thanks......... see you make my point so well

Isn't that what an argument is all about? You're trying to convince me that you're right, and I'm trying to convince you that I'm right.

To do that we have to lead each other to a particular conclusion based on facts and opinions.

Otherwise, why are we here?

I prefer the word discussion.......and I don't need to convince anybody.........you are doing that for me ....thanks

I rather doubt he is swaying anyone in your direction.

I can't even figure out what freakin' direction that is. (No doubt to that he will enigmatically yet sagely intone that this only further verifies his...stuff.)

[SteeleJoe]

yep just add the blue highlighted line above and you have it.......... thanks......... see you make my point so well

Isn't that what an argument is all about? You're trying to convince me that you're right, and I'm trying to convince you that I'm right.

To do that we have to lead each other to a particular conclusion based on facts and opinions.

Otherwise, why are we here?

I prefer the word discussion.......and I don't need to convince anybody.........you are doing that for me ....thanks

I rather doubt he is swaying anyone in your direction.

I can't even figure out what freakin' direction that is. (No doubt to that he will enigmatically yet sagely intone that this only further verifies his...stuff.)

[473geo]

Songkran.......