Complaints Filed Against Topless Women Dancing During Songkran.

[eek]

Yes, regards what goes on in go-gos, etc, it's very hypocritical; but this is all about the nature of the event (very public) and that Songkran WAS supposed to be about paying respect to elders. To be fair, so-called culture (sanook) has allowed this to happen... all of Thailand is to blame for allowing it to come this far from its humble beginnings, and the high-ups who are blowing this out of proportion need to because they have to be seen to be going over the top. Face, face, face, or mammaries in this case. The whole thing is OTT now.

I agree with it being all about the nature of the event. ALthough it seems to have become the biggest water fight on the planet, i do associate Songkran with being a family event. I can see why Thailand would want to try clamp down on something like this.

/snip/In most countries there are topless bars, but you cannot dance topless on the street. /snip/

My thoughts exactly.

According to @policespokesman, three topless girls at Silom during Songkran are aged 13, 15 and 16 years old.

/via@veen_NT

..! I saw the clip..and would not have thought for a minute they were so young.

As a side note, there was likely a lot of drunken young guys who just saw them as uninhibited women being provocative. Alcohol, sexual provocation, and young guys hormones.. it could have resulted in something a lot worse than a loss of face in the public eye.

Edited April 19, 2011 by eek

[jimbeam1]

Just seen the three girls, being paraded on Chanel 3 News. By the Police. Wearing zipper jackets done up to the neck, full face balaclava's and sunglasses. Great for Thailand's Image?

jb1

Edited April 19, 2011 by jimbeam1

[jimbeam1]

Holland has two major tourist attractions? Flowers, Amsterdam's read light district, with it's coffee shops. I wonder which pulls in the most tourists.

jb1

[jimbeam1]

According to @policespokesman, three topless girls at Silom during Songkran are aged 13, 15 and 16 years old.

/via@veen_NT

I hope for their sakes that they are at least 18, cause if they are, with all the publicity they are getting thanks to the authorities. They could be on a nice little earner here? Just sign on the dotted line??

jb1

[jfchandler]

I guess if the BMA takes over the Silom Song Kran festivities next year, that means any women/girls wanting to dance topless will have to pay the appropriate fee for permission to the street inspectors....

And anyone dropping cigarette butts on the street will be fined severely...especially farangs.

[Crushdepth]

According to @policespokesman, three topless girls at Silom during Songkran are aged 13, 15 and 16 years old.

So why are minors being subjected to a public media circus? The real disgrace is that the police have failed to handle their "investigation" in confidence.

[Insight]

According to @policespokesman, three topless girls at Silom during Songkran are aged 13, 15 and 16 years old.

/via@veen_NT

..! I saw the clip..and would not have thought for a minute they were so young.

Same here, specifically owing to the way they were dancing.

But then the parents who may be outraged by the behaviour of these girls are probably the same parents who cheer on their pre-teen daughters when dancing on stage in large numbers at Loy Kratong events, with the girls themselves caked in make-up, wearing skimpy outfits performing very Rhianna/Lada Gaga-like dance routines.

Not that I'm blaming them, of course. They can't handle that.

[StreetCowboy]

Holland has two major tourist attractions? Flowers, Amsterdam's read light district, with it's coffee shops. I wonder which pulls in the most tourists.

jb1

and windmills and clogs and canals and dykes (no, dykes as in little boys' fingers!); I hadn't realised the coffee shops were only in the red light district. I am sure there are other attractions as well...

Like the Isle of Man, most countries have a wide and varied range of attractions to suit everybody; even the USA is not the one-dimensional caricature that it is shown in the movies.

SC

[SAffer]

My ultra conservative Thai wife and I just discussed the matter of public nudity and the 'incident', which she heard on the Thai news and her opinion is that IT'S ALL ABOUT 'SHOW' and it's ok for Thai women to do all the nasty things they do in the bars, but in public......you have to be 'proper'.

I then pointed out that Thai women went topless before the christians put cloths on them [same as many other innocent cultures they invaded and shoved their moralities down their throats]......she denied that Thai women went topless and I pointed out some of the beautiful art work from the past with the topless women and she said 'that's just art' and the women did wear tops [pre christian]

Is that true??

Mate, they rely heavily on Cultural Exclusives here... of course Thais were topless before, and some Hill Tribes still are, but they prefer to advertise moral standards which are completely inconsistant with the reality. When I was at ABAC we were taught in our Thai culture class that one difference between Thais and westerners is that Thais cover themselves and appear more modest in their dress... this at a Thai uni where most girls dress in the infamous uniform. The half dressed girls sitting outside Kareoke bars catering for Thais in every neighbourhood is also ignored. The important point for them is that the women cover themselves on the beach, and don't usually wear bikinis.

Thai logic is beautifully presented in ABAC's curriculum, and in the mind-set of the locals.

[jfchandler]

A couple of things interesting to note...

I haven't seen the videos in question, nor would I know where to find them.

If you hear the audio of events that night, you'll hear the voices egging on the girls being males, of course, and mostly Thai based on the accent...

And, in a certain irony, I've have seen reports that at least one set of the videos of those activities appear to have been posted, falsely I'd presume, under the same of a certain Army/govt. spokesman....

Edited April 19, 2011 by jfchandler

[HannahD]

I remember visiting Thailand 45 years ago and in villages throughout the country Thai women went topless. Only in cities did women wear blouses. Even there they might wear only a Thai style long-line bra in the neighborhood. If people want to talk about tradition and history, they ought to learn it.

[Oberkommando]

More of the wrong Aussies are travelling here more like...In the majority of the cases alcohol (or should I say too much of it) has been a contributory factor in many of the incidents that led to unfortunate outcomes...That and a total lack of respect for local culture and slob behaviour make them prime targets for conflict!!

Let me guess, you are one of the "right Aussies" correct?

Fact is, as a developing Buddhist country Thailand is just a very dangerous tourism destination.

[Crushdepth]

According to the FCO Thailand is the most dangerous tourism destination for Britons.

And their number one cause of death is...riding motorbikes. A lot of the apparent danger would seem to be self-inflicted.

That and a total lack of respect for local culture and slob behaviour make them prime targets for conflict!!

Actually they tend to get on better with the locals than a lot of other nationalities I could mention.

[dunkin2012]

then a lady feedin' baby in public is outlaw

[harrry]

In the original video the young girls (who both my wife and I thought were round 20 were obviously normal very pretty girls who were well behaved but just went over the top like a lot of young kids in similar situations. I would not think this would discredit Thailand but show the joy and happiness of it's people.

The nightime videos, though clothed, show drunken louts flouting their sexuality in public as can be seen at many picnics in Australia. Not a good image in either country.

Edited April 19, 2011 by harrry

[webfact]

Culture Ministry to issue Songkran handbooks

BANGKOK, 19 April 2011 (NNT) – The Ministry of Culture is preparing to issue handbooks campaigning for greater awareness of youngsters on the genuine value of Songkran Festival after inappropriate behaviors were spotted during the Thai New Year celebration.

Culture Minister Nipit Intarasombat reported that the overall celebration of the country during Songkran Festival this year was better than previous ones, except on Silom Road in Bangkok and in the central province of Phichit where inappropriate activities were reported.

On Silom Road, a few young women took part in the celebration by dancing half-naked with bare breasts. A similar incident was found in Phichit province but dancers were transvestites.

The minister said he has coordinated with the police and local authorities to file lawsuits against the problem teenagers already; nonetheless, he admitted that such incidents could not be solved by legal actions. It is necessary to instil awareness of Thai culture among children and youths, he said. The ministry will soon issue handbooks to be distributed for that purpose.

The online society recently slammed the Ministry of Culture’s website as it had posted paintings of the seven Nang Songkran goddesses during the festival. The goddesses were dressed in traditional costumes revealing their bare breasts and were compared with the incident at Silom.

Reacting to the criticism, Mr Nipit responded that he has already ordered removal of the image. He however asked all Thais to view the paintings as pieces of art, not pornography; otherwise, all Thai sculptures ranging from the mermaid to angels and kinnarees must be banned from displays.

-- NNT 2011-04-19

[animatic]

Nipit is a twit.

The online society recently slammed the Ministry of Culture’s website as it had posted paintings of the seven Nang Songkran goddesses during the festival. The goddesses were dressed in traditional costumes revealing their bare breasts and were compared with the incident at Silom.

Reacting to the criticism, Mr Nipit responded that he has already ordered removal of the image. He however asked all Thais to view the paintings as pieces of art, not pornography; otherwise, all Thai sculptures ranging from the mermaid to angels and kinnarees must be banned from displays.

I guess he can't look at those underdressed ladies on Silom as beautiful pieces of art and not pornography.

Porn is showing sex not simple nudity of persons of legal age.

[Daren]

Nipit is a twit.

The online society recently slammed the Ministry of Culture’s website as it had posted paintings of the seven Nang Songkran goddesses during the festival. The goddesses were dressed in traditional costumes revealing their bare breasts and were compared with the incident at Silom.

Reacting to the criticism, Mr Nipit responded that he has already ordered removal of the image. He however asked all Thais to view the paintings as pieces of art, not pornography; otherwise, all Thai sculptures ranging from the mermaid to angels and kinnarees must be banned from displays.

I guess he can't look at those underdressed ladies on Silom as beautiful pieces of art and not pornography.

Porn is showing sex not simple nudity of persons of legal age.

While I agree, Nipit is a twit, your definition of pornography is not entirely correct. Pornography is often defined as:

"The portrayal of explicit sexual subject matter for the purposes of sexual excitement and erotic satisfaction."

In this case, those dancing girls probably fall into this genre. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a great adisplay of boobs as much as the next guy, we should be accurate in our language.

[dunkin2012]

Nipit is a twit.

The online society recently slammed the Ministry of Culture's website as it had posted paintings of the seven Nang Songkran goddesses during the festival. The goddesses were dressed in traditional costumes revealing their bare breasts and were compared with the incident at Silom.

Reacting to the criticism, Mr Nipit responded that he has already ordered removal of the image. He however asked all Thais to view the paintings as pieces of art, not pornography; otherwise, all Thai sculptures ranging from the mermaid to angels and kinnarees must be banned from displays.

I guess he can't look at those underdressed ladies on Silom as beautiful pieces of art and not pornography.

Porn is showing sex not simple nudity of persons of legal age.

sour grapes...........haha

[StreetCowboy]

Nipit is a twit.

The online society recently slammed the Ministry of Culture's website as it had posted paintings of the seven Nang Songkran goddesses during the festival. The goddesses were dressed in traditional costumes revealing their bare breasts and were compared with the incident at Silom.

Reacting to the criticism, Mr Nipit responded that he has already ordered removal of the image. He however asked all Thais to view the paintings as pieces of art, not pornography; otherwise, all Thai sculptures ranging from the mermaid to angels and kinnarees must be banned from displays.

I guess he can't look at those underdressed ladies on Silom as beautiful pieces of art and not pornography.

Porn is showing sex not simple nudity of persons of legal age.

While I agree, Nipit is a twit, your definition of pornography is not entirely correct. Pornography is often defined as:

"The portrayal of explicit sexual subject matter for the purposes of sexual excitement and erotic satisfaction."

In this case, those dancing girls probably fall into this genre. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a great adisplay of boobs as much as the next guy, we should be accurate in our language.

Pornography is not synonymous with obscenity; obscenity is material which is likely to offend, or outrage...

Some jurisdictions (e.g. the UK) have very clear and specific definitions of what is considered obscene - developed through common law case law, I believe, and which are applied ot the routine classification of magazines and films.

SC

[zthyadat]

Is the possible 5 years in prison in any way reasonable? I may have misread, but it sounds like you may be favouring it. To arbitrarily decide it is a violation of the Computer Crime Act to post a video of an incident in a public street is a ridiculous application of the law. The computer crime act has no clear guidelines on such things.

Actually it does.

Section 14. If any person commits any offence of the following acts shall be subject to imprisonment for not more than five years or a fine of not more than one hundred thousand baht or both:

(1) that involves import to a computer system of forged computer data, either in whole or in part, or false computer data, in a manner that is likely to cause damage to that third party or the public;

(2) that involves import to a computer system of false computer data in a manner that is likely to damage the country's security or cause a public panic;

(3) that involves import to a computer system of any computer data related with an offence against the Kingdom's security under the Criminal Code;

(4) that involves import to a computer system of any computer data of a pornographic nature that is publicly accessible;

prachatai

Pretty specific I would say.

Given that there are legal magazines here that publish photos of naked breasts (ie: Penthouse), then the videos could be strongly argued not to be pornographic. Also, most of the videos had the blurring effect on the naughty bits. Does Channel 3 get in trouble for broadcasting the images? And I may be wrong but I believe the authorities are taking the approach here that the "crime" is that it is damaging to Thailand's image, not the "pornographic" nature of the videos.

[Soutpeel]

Pity they didnt produce booklets prior to Songkran, highlighting the dangers of drunken driving, driving without helmets etc etc.....

[hyperdimension]

And, in a certain irony, I've have seen reports that at least one set of the videos of those activities appear to have been posted, falsely I'd presume, under the same of a certain Army/govt. spokesman....

Sansern Kaewkamnerd on Vimeo. I wonder if it really is the colonel's own account. The videos are uncensored as they should be.

[SAffer]

And, in a certain irony, I've have seen reports that at least one set of the videos of those activities appear to have been posted, falsely I'd presume, under the same of a certain Army/govt. spokesman....

Sansern Kaewkamnerd on Vimeo. I wonder if it really is the colonel's own account. The videos are uncensored as they should be.

This whole eposide reminds me of a similar incident in Uganda where a girl was arrested for going Commando.

To my knowledge, people in the west are also arrested for public indecency from time to time, but the cultural arguement doesn't really feature.

At a recent school boy rugby match I attended, one oldboy streaked the length of the field wearing nothing but his cheese-cutter... maybe one has to be girating to make the news???

[TackyToo]

Here are the before & after pics of the topless dancing girls on Ministry of Culture's website http://yfrog.com/h4nvfpkj

Source: Richard Barrow

Could anyone possibly tell me if he/she is personally aware of a single kid that became mentally unstable, an exhibitionist, a pedophile sex monster, a rapist, a robber, or even worse,- a corrupt civil servant, just because it spotted some bare naked boobs in public?

The moment a single male farrang tourist admits in his home country he’s going for a holiday to Thailand, he will most probably judged as a sex tourist.

So far to the country’s reputation!

No naked boobs in public? And at the same time openly displayed porn CD’s on Sukhumvit and Beach Road are OK?

No more condom vending machines in schools, because a ´moral code’ demands it? Considering unprotected sex more acceptable than unbridled sex? Oh I forgot, Thai kids don’t do ‘it’ because they prefer tuition and piano lessons…

[chooka]

BANGKOK, 18 April 2011 (NNT) – The recent news report regarding a group of half-naked young women splashing water on Silom Road in Bangkok reflects a deteriorating Thai society, according to a recent survey by Assumption University Research Center (ABAC Poll).

The survey was conducted with 1,134 respondents aged more than 18 years old in Bangkok and vicinities from 16 to 17 April 2011. The respondents were asked for their opinion about a group of young women enjoying Songkran in Silom with bare breasts.

94.3% of the respondents said they saw the news report, of whom 91.8% indicated that the Thai society had been deteriorating for a long time.

74.9% of the respondents said adults in the society had failed to provide good examples for young people while 71.7% pointed out that those young women misbehaved by themselves. 56.2% believed the criticized ladies had such a foul behaviour ever since they were in their families.

87.9% of the respondents expressed concerns over the future generation of the Thai society. 89.6% agreed that punishment for obscenity offenders should be harsher while 88.7% supported the same move for pornography distributors.

On the case of Silom girls, 83.7% of the respondents suggested that related authorities should be punished for allowing the scene to happen while 82.5% thought local administrative authorities responsible for the district where the incident took place should be punished too.

[96tehtarp]

Yes, but now what is the music in the background of the video?

Band, artist name etc.... Please, anyone

[gregb]

According to @policespokesman, three topless girls at Silom during Songkran are aged 13, 15 and 16 years old.

/via@veen_NT

..! I saw the clip..and would not have thought for a minute they were so young.

I don't think they are. But if you are the culture ministry and want to get these videos removed from the dozens of various internet sites where they have been posted, and limit people sending them to others, there is no more effective way to do it than to say the girls are under age.

I don't believe for an instant that these are their real ages. But since it is largely irrelevant, I congratulate the police on bringing such dangerous criminals to justice.

[dunkin2012]

According to @policespokesman, three topless girls at Silom during Songkran are aged 13, 15 and 16 years old.

/via@veen_NT

..! I saw the clip..and would not have thought for a minute they were so young.

I don't think they are. But if you are the culture ministry and want to get these videos removed from the dozens of various internet sites where they have been posted, and limit people sending them to others, there is no more effective way to do it than to say the girls are under age.

I don't believe for an instant that these are their real ages. But since it is largely irrelevant, I congratulate the police on bringing such dangerous criminals to justice.

cheers.......................................... it is the outstanding work of this year ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

very good ............. haha.........

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't know wether I agree or disagree with this. Its a hard one morally for me. On one hand I think, its a party and a hundred years ago women walked bare breasted anyway. On the other hand Thai culture is slipping away and I can understand why people want to keep their cultural identity, especially with much of the west to hold up as a "shining" example of were you end up if you allow the cultural decline to go unchecked.

As far as the YouTubers go, if they staged it it could be argued I supposed that it was a direct attempt to slur or debase; however, if it was just some guys that caught it on camera and then posted it - and it was done in public - then they should not be charged at all IMO.

Once again Thailand has become the laughing stock, the article in the NY times today says it all.

If Thailand wants the world to take them seriously about this issue then there is only one solution; close down ALL go go bars and similar ilk. Arrest and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law anyone involved in prostitution.

Unbelievable; the world is really laughing and pointing the finger at Thailand now; silly, silly, silly.

I suppose that is because the Americans don't understand about face and respect; there is an appropriate time and place, and in this case, that should have been after 8 pm behind a heavy velvet curtain.

When you say "anyone involved in prostitution" I take it you are primarily focussing on foreign tourists, the hoteliers that accommodate them, the people that rent rooms to prostitutes, the people that sell them som tam, the bar owners that employ them as dancers, the other bar owners whose premises they patronise, and single mothers struggling to support their offspring - and presumably, also the fathers of said offspring, who contribute in their own inimitable way. And presumably, the rest of us, lest we feel left out - we have probably contributed or benefited in some way in any case

SC

What it comes down to is the world's (outside of Thailand) perspective of Thailand. They don't care about face, Thai culture etc. Just read the Ny times article. With "common knowledge" of Thailand and what goes on here and the fact that it is really out in the open (once a girl in Pattaya yelled at me from across the street; "hey man, you f*&k my *&S and come in my mout, 500 baht") and they arrest people for exposing their chest on songkran.

That is what is in the news and that is what the world thinks about Thailand.

"Thailand has rules against vice, and the government regularly blocks Web sites deemed to violate Thai values. But weak enforcement and a general laissez-faire ethos undermine such controls. The country has a long history of men frequenting prostitutes; Bangkok is home to hundreds of so-called saunas, where male clients do more than just soak in hot tubs.

Minutes away from the spot where the three dancers were filmed is the Patpong Road district, where women and men perform in infamous sex shows and sex workers ply countless bars."

NY times article

As I said, silly, silly, silly

BTW, If Thailand wants to get rid of prostitution (never happen) they should target the johns, pimps bar owners etc. not the girls, duh .