Corruption

[samran]

Not just a way of life in those select circles, but embedded into the institutional character.....the OP naively suggested that there might be hope if the government would intervene. That would be kin to the foxes drawing straws as to whom would be watching the hen house.

Correct, corruption (and lying, and cheating, and stealing) is embedded in Thai culture. Believe me, your best Thai friend of ten years will steal from you if given the chance. There is no moral base to this corrupt culture.

Another lot of silly anti Thai generalisations.

Surely none of you can actually live in Thailand with attitudes like that.

There are good and bad in every country, every society, and if you have only ever come accross the bad in this country you aint been around much.

Then perhaps you have not been here long enough. I have and seen it all.

Here's a resent one for you. My Thai inlaws come up country for Son Gran, have a motor accident with some water throwers motor, called police cos not their fault but guess what, the throwers were village officials and my in-laws were out of town so it was their fault.

well you obviously haven't seen it all if that is all you have seen. Plenty of good people here. But who knows, I subscribe to the theory that you attract people similar to yourselves.

[SlyAnimal]

Correct, corruption (and lying, and cheating, and stealing) is embedded in Thai culture. Believe me, your best Thai friend of ten years will steal from you if given the chance. There is no moral base to this corrupt culture.

lol you need to find some better friends if this is the impression which your existing Thai friends have made on you.

Am appalled to think that people are stealing from the poor who have just been ravaged by the flooding. Albeit not overly surprised, as it's the norm in many countries which receive aid (i.e. a Cambodian friend pointed out this article from the Washington Post to me a few days ago). It's the people who have the least, that are most regularly the victims of corruption.

[saraburioz]

I was driving at 170 KPH today and was rightfully stopped by the Police, I paid 200 Baht there and then, no ticket, no summons.

Thank fawk for corruption.

Last month I was drunk and hit a motorcyle as I was doing a U-turn. I had forgotten to put on my headlights. He was going the wrong way. A relative sorted it out and the motorcyle paid me 3000 baht to get one car panel resprayed.

In Oz, we'd both be put in jail. Yeah, thank God for corruption.

The only ones complaining about it are the ones who can't use it.

At Christmas, out poker game was busted. One call to my Uncle, who is a policeman, sorted it out and they joined the game and i took 3,000 baht off them.

Edited April 22, 2011 by saraburioz

[thequietman]

Corruption is a way of life here, a good luck attitude if you can get away with it, from top to bottom and it is expected and tolerated.

Not just a way of life in those select circles, but embedded into the institutional character.....the OP naively suggested that there might be hope if the government would intervene. That would be kin to the foxes drawing straws as to whom would be watching the hen house.

Correct, corruption (and lying, and cheating, and stealing) is embedded in Thai culture. Believe me, your best Thai friend of ten years will steal from you if given the chance. There is no moral base to this corrupt culture.

i believe this is very true, corruption is rife from the bottom up. a few years back we had huge floods that wiped whole families out. the pu yi's assistant received school clothing for the families who had lost everything. she was seen later 2 towns over, sellind said garments at a market. the dinner lady at our local school was holding back money and feeding the kids cheap fatty food. the boss of our local credit union signed off on loans that nobody had requested and kept the money. response.............slap on the wrist and can you pay it back please. no repercussions of any kind. no police,no court appearance, nothing. if there is no penalty for stealing from the people if you are in government(even at the lower end) why not do it. if they know nothing will come from it, they might as well try. money is god to the rich and the poor, it doesnt matter how they get it, as long as its easy.

[SteeleJoe]

I think it's self-evident that there's has been some change in the level of the public's tolerance for corruption -- I've seen it myself over 30 years and I think a study of the news would corroborate that. Unfortunately that change is VERY small and VERY slow.

And I have to say that there is much truth in both Transam and GregB's comments.

It happened in New Orleans as well. Thailand isn't unique when it comes to corruption. However, it's usually in smaller amounts in Thailand. Bernie Madoff and the US banking industry come to mind.

Rather specious comparison, no?

Transparency International would have us believe that Thailand is significantly more corrupt than the US.

It's one thing to skim of a few baht here and there, i suppose. I mean it's not right but it happens.

But stealing relief money?

It has always gone WAY beyond skimming off a few baht here and there and this far, far from being a rare case of it having tangible and extremely grave repercussions (not even counting the less tangible or quantifiable but no less real, unjust or worrisome ways that it affects Thais and always has; it's vast, multi-faceted and systemic and many, many bad things happen as a result of it.).

[zzaa09]

I was driving at 170 KPH today and was rightfully stopped by the Police, I paid 200 Baht there and then, no ticket, no summons.

Thank fawk for corruption.

...has it's moments.

[SteeleJoe]

I've benefited in MAJOR ways from corruption. As have many. (That's just one reason - not the most significant IMO -- why it's so nearly impossible to reduce to any meaningful degree).

And I don't think it's hypocritical to acknowledge that these benefits in no way negate or even diminish the horrific damage done otherwise or the feeling of deep sadness and frustration it engenders.

EDIT to ADD: That wasn't meant to imply that the previous post was attempting to negate or diminish anything.

Edited April 23, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[atyclb]

Corruption is a way of life here, a good luck attitude if you can get away with it, from top to bottom and it is expected and tolerated.

Not just a way of life in those select circles, but embedded into the institutional character.....the OP naively suggested that there might be hope if the government would intervene. That would be kin to the foxes drawing straws as to whom would be watching the hen house.

Correct, corruption (and lying, and cheating, and stealing) is embedded in Thai culture. Believe me, your best Thai friend of ten years will steal from you if given the chance. There is no moral base to this corrupt culture.

Another lot of silly anti Thai generalisations.

Surely none of you can actually live in Thailand with attitudes like that.

There are good and bad in every country, every society, and if you have only ever come accross the bad in this country you aint been around much.

You must live in a diving bell if you live in Thailand.

"Cheating and corruption is the norm at all levels of society, and incompetency is the sum of our failings." Voranai Vanijaka Bangkok Post 02/01/2011 Opinion . He is 100% Thai and journalist. Google for full article as we cannot post link to BKK post

[TheLaughingMan]

Another lot of silly anti Thai generalisations.

Surely none of you can actually live in Thailand with attitudes like that.

There are good and bad in every country, every society, and if you have only ever come accross the bad in this country you aint been around much.

You must live in a diving bell if you live in Thailand.

"Cheating and corruption is the norm at all levels of society, and incompetency is the sum of our failings." Voranai Vanijaka Bangkok Post 02/01/2011 Opinion . He is 100% Thai and journalist. Google for full article as we cannot post link to BKK post

Sing it brother, this guy hasn't got a clue. I absolutely LOVE when idiot falangs defend Thailand at all costs when unbeknownst to them Thais themselves are fully aware of their countries short comings, it's only ignorant falangs completely out of the loop.

[robblok]

Another lot of silly anti Thai generalisations.

Surely none of you can actually live in Thailand with attitudes like that.

There are good and bad in every country, every society, and if you have only ever come accross the bad in this country you aint been around much.

You must live in a diving bell if you live in Thailand.

"Cheating and corruption is the norm at all levels of society, and incompetency is the sum of our failings." Voranai Vanijaka Bangkok Post 02/01/2011 Opinion . He is 100% Thai and journalist. Google for full article as we cannot post link to BKK post

Sing it brother, this guy hasn't got a clue. I absolutely LOVE when idiot falangs defend Thailand at all costs when unbeknownst to them Thais themselves are fully aware of their countries short comings, it's only ignorant falangs completely out of the loop.

I absolutely love it when people make a fool of themselves like saying that someone is a farang when in fact he is Thai. He speaks the lingo, holds a Thai pasport and is Thai by birth. So i think he knows what goes on. He just travels in different circles. You meet more bad people if you frequent bad places. I know some really good Thais and some bad ones.

But I am with you guys that corruption is a curse in this country. Just look at Santika fire and many other incidents where the rich and powerful get it their way.

[Robby nz]

Another lot of silly anti Thai generalisations.

Surely none of you can actually live in Thailand with attitudes like that.

There are good and bad in every country, every society, and if you have only ever come accross the bad in this country you aint been around much.

You must live in a diving bell if you live in Thailand.

"Cheating and corruption is the norm at all levels of society, and incompetency is the sum of our failings." Voranai Vanijaka Bangkok Post 02/01/2011 Opinion . He is 100% Thai and journalist. Google for full article as we cannot post link to BKK post

Sing it brother, this guy hasn't got a clue. I absolutely LOVE when idiot falangs defend Thailand at all costs when unbeknownst to them Thais themselves are fully aware of their countries short comings, it's only ignorant falangs completely out of the loop.

I didnt start this topic to get personal attacks from those who know that: all thais are.............. all bus drivers are............... all taxi drivers are......... as we see on this forum from time to time.

But because I dont like the idea of those, in this case who have been hurt by flooding, getting ripped off.

Seeing that these people have complained loudly and publicly and have got the deserved publicity for their plight may in future encourage others who are in similar situations to also complain to get what is rightfully theirs.

I suspect that in some cases it could be injurous to the health to go againts those in charge who are doing the corruption but if people can get together as a group to air their greviences and have some authority to go to who will take their complaints seriously then with a bit of luck corruption can be lessoned.

[Mitker]

Corruption is a way of life here, a good luck attitude if you can get away with it, from top to bottom and it is expected and tolerated.

Not just a way of life in those select circles, but embedded into the institutional character.....the OP naively suggested that there might be hope if the government would intervene. That would be kin to the foxes drawing straws as to whom would be watching the hen house.

Correct, corruption (and lying, and cheating, and stealing) is embedded in Thai culture. Believe me, your best Thai friend of ten years will steal from you if given the chance. There is no moral base to this corrupt culture.

As a Thai, I'm quite offended by this. Yes the entire institution is based on graft and corruption such that it takes a benevolent despot to break the system but that doesn't mean we all are. Do I say all Americans are corrupt because a couple rotten banking institutions decide to rip off the taxpayer? Maybe you should stop living under your log and crawl outside to see the reality of life

As a farang, I do agree with you.

The problem of corruption is very deeply rooted but it is no excuse for making a generalization. Some Thai nationals are truly sick of corrupt practices. What they deserve is support instead of this blind, counter-productive blaming.

[inmysights]

Gregb wrote

The only people who complain are the ones who didn't get a piece of the corruption under analysis. That is usually because somebody got greedy and didn't want to share with all the branches on the way down to the bottom, or that it was simply easier to step on those people rather than cut them in. When Thais complain about corruption, they aren't really complaining about generic corruption, they are complaining about the specific corruption that they don't benefit from. When they do get their opportunity for a share of the spoils, they turn a blind eye towards how anyone else suffers from it.

Well in this case it is the people at the bottom, the rightful recipiants of the money who are complaining.

No way they could have been involved in any corruption.

It is people like them who are the ones being ripped off who need to have the attitude that it is not acceptable to screw them.

They also need to a non corrupt body to complain to, possibly a body that consists of people who have been screwed and dont like it.

Corruption can never be stopped from the top only from the bottom when the people who are the victims stand up for their rights.

Little bit naive. I was told by a Thai owner of a small restaurant on one of the beaches here that there were a lot of 'people at the bottom' with their hands out claiming for non-existent losses after the Tsunami. But of course that could apply anywhere.

[yellow1red1]

What boils my brain the most and makes me want to stick a chili covered fork in my eye repeatedly is the way Thailand authorities act like there must be some confusion. Anyone reading this story knows EXACTLY what happened and doesn't need to actually "wonder" and try to find out. There should simply be sweeping arrests with anyone involved from the point the full amount was given out to the point it was distributed to victims. I mean it aint no freaking secret! Its an every day occurrence and if the authorities stopped stealing the money themselves most of the time or at the very least arrested people instantly and questioned them to find out the truth then it would not be such a common every day event.

this is sofa king rye ton... those who say it is all mysterious in the East make me laff man. punching a nose is punching a nose anywhere in the world,,, same stealing a wallet

corrupt politicians, and the rest are not too too 'complicated'

[anterian]

Sadhukar, I can understand that you should write, "As a Thai, I'm quite offended by this.". I would be also. But you are in a position to try and change things, we farangs are not, all we can do is comment. After years of living here our comments tend to become bitter, nothing changes.

[Diablo Bob]

I'd like to hear from anyone who lives here who is not corrupt.

I can't complain about corruption when i take part myself.

I agree with you, I like Thailand because it is corrupt in ways that benefit me For instance, the police catch me speeding, it costs me 200 baht and I am down the road. In the USA it would cost me hunderds in a direct fine and depending on how fast I was going, maybe a day in court and an increase in my insurance premium.

In Thailand, rather than wait in a long line at the Ampur to register my marriage, due to corruption I was able to sit across the street have a few beers and all the required paperwork was delivered for signiture than after a few more beers the certificates were delivered. Easy........

Work the system to your advantage and life is easy , fight the system, well we read the postings everday from the frustrated on TV

[atyclb]

Another lot of silly anti Thai generalisations.

Surely none of you can actually live in Thailand with attitudes like that.

There are good and bad in every country, every society, and if you have only ever come accross the bad in this country you aint been around much.

You must live in a diving bell if you live in Thailand.

"Cheating and corruption is the norm at all levels of society, and incompetency is the sum of our failings." Voranai Vanijaka Bangkok Post 02/01/2011 Opinion . He is 100% Thai and journalist. Google for full article as we cannot post link to BKK post

Sing it brother, this guy hasn't got a clue. I absolutely LOVE when idiot falangs defend Thailand at all costs when unbeknownst to them Thais themselves are fully aware of their countries short comings, it's only ignorant falangs completely out of the loop.

I would not use the term "idiot".

Perhaps "intellectually challenged" or "less sophisticated"

Nobody ever said every person is corrupt and cheats, however in a system that functions that way it would compel people to do such things. I have several great friends here and they are moral and ethical. I do not attempt to criticize, complain or condemn, I am only an observer. Cheating and corruption stalls development, not just economic, but intellectual.

Just look at the bright side. You can always report corruption to the police

Edited April 24, 2011 by atyclb

[zzaa09]

Cheating and corruption stalls development, not just economic, but intellectual.

On the contrary. Reality dictates that higher-level corruption, cheating, and criminal activity is the base of Thai economic development, therefore the fuels that drives the system. Contradictory and negative, but it works. It is what it is.

[atyclb]

Cheating and corruption stalls development, not just economic, but intellectual.

On the contrary. Reality dictates that higher-level corruption, cheating, and criminal activity is the base of Thai economic development, therefore the fuels that drives the system. Contradictory and negative, but it works. It is what it is.

When I say "Cheating and corruption stalls development, not just economic, but intellectual" it means in the absence of such, development would indeed advance relatively faster.

We already know how the current system functions.

[jimbeam1]

Gregb wrote

The only people who complain are the ones who didn't get a piece of the corruption under analysis. That is usually because somebody got greedy and didn't want to share with all the branches on the way down to the bottom, or that it was simply easier to step on those people rather than cut them in. When Thais complain about corruption, they aren't really complaining about generic corruption, they are complaining about the specific corruption that they don't benefit from. When they do get their opportunity for a share of the spoils, they turn a blind eye towards how anyone else suffers from it.

Well in this case it is the people at the bottom, the rightful recipiants of the money who are complaining.

No way they could have been involved in any corruption.

It is people like them who are the ones being ripped off who need to have the attitude that it is not acceptable to screw them.

They also need to a non corrupt body to complain to, possibly a body that consists of people who have been screwed and dont like it.

Corruption can never be stopped from the top only from the bottom when the people who are the victims stand up for their rights.

Yes but sadly as they are the bottom of the pile, nothing will be done about it. If anyone does really look into it. They will open a file, put in under category <deleted>. There it would stay until it/they were forgotten about. Eventually people, will accept their lot. Mai-bpen-rai

[jimbeam1]

I'd like to hear from anyone who lives here who is not corrupt.

I can't complain about corruption when i take part myself.

I agree with you, I like Thailand because it is corrupt in ways that benefit me For instance, the police catch me speeding, it costs me 200 baht and I am down the road. In the USA it would cost me hunderds in a direct fine and depending on how fast I was going, maybe a day in court and an increase in my insurance premium.

In Thailand, rather than wait in a long line at the Ampur to register my marriage, due to corruption I was able to sit across the street have a few beers and all the required paperwork was delivered for signiture than after a few more beers the certificates were delivered. Easy........

Work the system to your advantage and life is easy , fight the system, well we read the postings everday from the frustrated on TV

Are you just as happy when you do nothing wrong and they extort money from you? My last two experiences, the asking price started at 1,000Bt

jb1

[Diablo Bob]

I'd like to hear from anyone who lives here who is not corrupt.

I can't complain about corruption when i take part myself.

I agree with you, I like Thailand because it is corrupt in ways that benefit me For instance, the police catch me speeding, it costs me 200 baht and I am down the road. In the USA it would cost me hunderds in a direct fine and depending on how fast I was going, maybe a day in court and an increase in my insurance premium.

In Thailand, rather than wait in a long line at the Ampur to register my marriage, due to corruption I was able to sit across the street have a few beers and all the required paperwork was delivered for signiture than after a few more beers the certificates were delivered. Easy........

Work the system to your advantage and life is easy , fight the system, well we read the postings everday from the frustrated on TV

Are you just as happy when you do nothing wrong and they extort money from you? My last two experiences, the asking price started at 1,000Bt

jb1

I can honestly say that I have never had that problem in almost 15 years of living in Thailand. When that day does come, I will demand a written ticket and pay the court and NOT pay the officer. I can say in the 15 years, only twice have I been stopped and the officer refused the cash to make the hassle go away, and I ended up paying the court.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Diablo Bob

[saraburioz]

I'd like to hear from anyone who lives here who is not corrupt.

I can't complain about corruption when i take part myself.

I agree with you, I like Thailand because it is corrupt in ways that benefit me For instance, the police catch me speeding, it costs me 200 baht and I am down the road. In the USA it would cost me hunderds in a direct fine and depending on how fast I was going, maybe a day in court and an increase in my insurance premium.

In Thailand, rather than wait in a long line at the Ampur to register my marriage, due to corruption I was able to sit across the street have a few beers and all the required paperwork was delivered for signiture than after a few more beers the certificates were delivered. Easy........

Work the system to your advantage and life is easy , fight the system, well we read the postings everday from the frustrated on TV

Are you just as happy when you do nothing wrong and they extort money from you? My last two experiences, the asking price started at 1,000Bt

jb1

I can honestly say that I have never had that problem in almost 15 years of living in Thailand. When that day does come, I will demand a written ticket and pay the court and NOT pay the officer. I can say in the 15 years, only twice have I been stopped and the officer refused the cash to make the hassle go away, and I ended up paying the court.

I've lived longer than that and have never had to pay for something I never did.

Why on earth would anyone give the police 1000 baht for nothing???

[SteeleJoe]

I've got loads of less than complimentary things to say about the BiB -- much of it based on my own experience or that of others whom I know personally. And I certainly don't have the accepting attitude as some here do about corruption.

But I too have been here longer than 15 years and have yet to be randomly extorted while innocent of any wrongdoing.

[MrsMills]

I have to agree with the other long term guys that have never been extorted, I find the system fine.

Farangs complain about corruption, but how many of those would give up the chance of paying 200 Baht into a Policemans pocket and driving on, as opposed to going to the Police Station and paying more ?

My take on corruption is this............. The ones doing the most complaining, are complaining because they can't get on the gravy train themselves.

Obama will need One Billion Dollars for his re-election campaign, where will that money come from, who is willing to contribute vast amounts of money for no return, certainly not the multinational companies that will contribute, would they waste their stockholders money, not a chance.

They contribute because they know that if they back the right man, they will be well rewarded.

Thailands great, we can contribute to corruption that benefits us without being billionaires, pretty cool really.

[robblok]

I have to agree with the other long term guys that have never been extorted, I find the system fine.

Farangs complain about corruption, but how many of those would give up the chance of paying 200 Baht into a Policemans pocket and driving on, as opposed to going to the Police Station and paying more ?

My take on corruption is this............. The ones doing the most complaining, are complaining because they can't get on the gravy train themselves.

Obama will need One Billion Dollars for his re-election campaign, where will that money come from, who is willing to contribute vast amounts of money for no return, certainly not the multinational companies that will contribute, would they waste their stockholders money, not a chance.

They contribute because they know that if they back the right man, they will be well rewarded.

Thailands great, we can contribute to corruption that benefits us without being billionaires, pretty cool really.

Sure and who is going to safe you when you burn in a fire (santika) because the officials who had to check and make sure it was safe were bribed. Or if your in an accident and the other party has more money then you and you are framed. Corruption is not so nice once you think a bit deeper. But i guess your not capable of such things.

If you just think about the 200 bt for the coppers sure i cant be too worried about that either (except that it does nothing for road safety). But the other things i mentioned are much worse and hopefully we never encounter those.