Thai, Cambodian Troops In New Border Clash

[BuckarooBanzai]

Many many very loud explosions south of Prasat up until about 5 minutes ago.

[random]

well if only the Thais had accepted monitors in the area the nasty cambodians would not have attacked, well I say attacked, it appears now after all the reports that the cambodian fired the first shot to not be true, we know hear they strayed too close to the thais, so it seems likely the thais fired the first shot.

Observers in the area would stop all of this nonsense, cambodia want them, thailand don't, you do the maths.

[fatfather]

TIT ...quiet for ten minutes now, few villagers are leaving but the ice cream man showed up ...ice cream ma leo.... the kids run out and are happy, the adults stay scared.

I love this place and I get angry when I think about the yellow/red Bangkokians who insist on more strict action at the border temples. They sit in their offices, visit the border only when it's save and give a shit for the people living here.

fatfather

[coma]

With this sort of thing happen all the time. How about hurrying up double time with those subs. I could see how they could be of good use in these low scale contacts.

Or how about spending that sub money on training and better equiping your border patrol units so 6 men don't get knock at one time.

[webfact]

5-hour border clash prompt evacuation of Surin villagers

By The Nation

Surin

A border skirmish between Thai and Cambodian troops occurred early Friday, causing injuries on part of Thai troops and an urgent evacuation of residents of 20 villages.

The clash occurred near the Ta Kwai Temple in Tambon Bakdai of Surin's Phanom Dongrak district at 5 am.

An unknown number of Thai troops were injured during the exchange of rifle and artillery fires.

Thai officials said the clash took place afte Cambodian troops were moving too close to the Thai side and ignored the Thai warning. The clash lasted over five hours.

The clash began with the exchange of rifle fire but later on artillery fire took place.

Some artillery shells fell on the Thai Santisuk village, damaging three houses.

Wina Sukprasop, the chief of Tambon Bakdai, said nearly 10,000 residents of 20 villages were evacuated. The villagers were taking shelter at the Phanom Dongrak Witthaya School, the resettlement zone in Prasat district and the Kokklang village.

He said the villagers were frightened by the sounds of gunfire.

A military source said Cambodian troops fired at the Thai side from a hillside.

-- The Nation 2011-04-22

[webfact]

Army Confirms Clashes with Cambodian Troops at Border

An Army spokesman has confirmed reports of clashes between Thai and Cambodian troops along the border near Ta Khwai and Ta Muen Thom temples earlier this morning.

Cartridges and shells were found scattered at the ancient sites.

The sound of gunfire was heard early this morning at the Thai-Cambodian border near the Ta Khwai and Ta Muen Thom temples in Phanom Dongrak District of Surin Province.

The shooting reportedly took place around 6 A.M.

Residents in the province and others nearby evacuated to safety.

In particular, villagers from Moo Baan Thai Santisuk in Phanom Domrak District were evacuated to Baan Ta Luak, Phanom Dongrak, and Baan Khok Klang schools.

Residents living in other areas near the clashes have also been advised to prepare for evacuation.

A Sub-district administration leader said Cambodian soldiers opened fire on the Thai troops first.

Witnesses said eight Thai soldiers were wounded, with three in critical condition.

-- Tan Network 2011-04-22

[BuckarooBanzai]

He said the villagers were frightened by the sounds of gunfire

The explosions scared the hell out of me and they were 30km away. Still quiet to the south for now.

[webfact]

Eight Thai soldiers wounded in new border clash with Cambodian troops

SURIN, April 4 – Eight Thai soldiers were wounded in a renewed border clash with Cambodian troops near the Ta Kwai temple in Surin on Friday morning.

Three artillery shells fired by Cambodian troops fell on the Thai side of the border in Phanom Dong Rak district, causing wounds among eight Thai military personnel. The soldiers were directly evacuated to Phanomdongrak hospital.

Residents of 36 villages in Thailand's Bakdai and Kap Choeng districts, living about three kilometers from the clash site have evacuated to two temporary shelters.

The clash reportedly included at nearby Ta Muan Thom temple.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was informed of the incident and cooperation for negotiation has been done in an attempt to end fighting, said Government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn.

The last fighting between the two sides occurred in February at the Si Sa Ket border. The four-day skirmish left at least 10 people dead.

A Thai-Cambodian Joint Boundary Commission (JBC) meeting was held earlier this month in Bogor, Indonesia. Both countries planned to send a joint team to survey border posts and discuss how to select a company to take aerial photos of the disputed border.

Ties between Thailand and Cambodia have been strained since Preah Vihear was granted UN World Heritage status in July 2008.

The World Court ruled in 1962 that the temple belonged to Cambodia, but a 4.6 square kilometre (1.8 square mile) surrounding area remains in dispute as both countries claim ownership of the tract. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-04-22

[animatic]

Looks like it was too long out of the press for someones liking....

Who do you mean by someone? General Prayuth - that could make sense.

If you mean (Oh God, it's scarcely possible, is it?) Thaksin, I am nominating you as a contender for the Sriracha John memorial prize for the most irrelevant introduction of the great demon into an unrelated thread.

Very noble of you to surrender your award.

Animatic's comment could have meant several things.

As easily Hun Sen as any of the other probables.

I had been noting the border clash was not getting any press the last week or more, and I was wondering when it would 'pop up again' Answer was soon forthcoming.

The point of the comment was to make people think through the many possibilities.

Edited April 22, 2011 by animatic

[dumball]

Now I am contemplating the real reason the Thai army refused observers in the front line , to allow them to re-open the conflict and once again point fingers at Cambodia who have accepted ALL proposals to ensure a peace agreement can be reached when and IF the Thai can reach an agreement between themselves as to whom is actually running the affairs of Thailand .

The lake residents are squatters and have been offered good compensation or alternative accommodation in PP .

[dunkin2012]

The lake residents are squatters and have been offered good compensation or alternative accommodation in PP .

nope ..

as far as I know they are negotiating...

[Thaddeus]

Three artillery shells fired by Cambodian troops fell on the Thai side of the border in Phanom Dong Rak district, causing wounds among eight Thai military personnel.

-- TNA 2011-04-22

If that statement is accurate then there were a heck of a lot of artillery shells landing on the Cambodian side.

[jayboy]

The point of the comment was to make people think through the many possibilities.

Yeah sure.

[webfact]

UPDATE

Six dead in Thai-Cambodia border clash

by Anusak Konglang

[bANGKOK, April 22, 2011 (AFP) - Thai and Cambodian troops traded gunfire and artillery shells on Friday, leaving six dead in a new clash that shattered a two-month lull in tensions along their disputed border.

It was the first serious outbreak of hostilities since fighting in February near the 900-year-old Hindu temple Preah Vihear left at least 10 dead and prompted a UN appeal for a lasting ceasefire.

Three Cambodian and three Thai soldiers were killed in Friday's fighting near a different group of temples over 100 kilometres away. More than a dozen others were wounded, including three Thai troops who were said to be in critical condition.

Indonesia, current chair of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), called for an immediate end to the violence.

The two sides blamed each other for the clash which broke out in the early morning and lasted for several hours, while thousands of villagers were evacuated on the Thai side.

"Cambodian soldiers fired with assault rifles at Thailand first and now they started to shell us with artillery and we took appropriate retaliation," Thai Defence Minister General Prawit Wongsuwon told AFP.

"I think Cambodia wanted to take over temples on the border," he said.

Cambodia accused Thai troops of entering 0.4 kilometres (0.25 miles) into its territory.

"The Thai troops marched directly towards Cambodian troop positions stationed at Cambodia's Ta Krabei temple and launched unprovoked attacks," said government spokesman Phay Siphan.

"This is yet another invasion by Thailand on Cambodia. We cannot accept this."

The Thai-Cambodia border has never been fully demarcated, partly because it is littered with landmines left over from decades of war in Cambodia.

Ties between the neighbours have been strained since Preah Vihear -- the most celebrated example of ancient Khmer architecture outside of Cambodia's Angkor Wat -- was granted UN World Heritage status in July 2008.

The World Court ruled in 1962 that the temple belonged to Cambodia, but both countries claim ownership of a 4.6 square kilometre (1.8 square mile) adjacent area.

Observers say the temple dispute has been used as a rallying point to stir nationalist sentiment in Thailand and Cambodia.

The two countries agreed in late February to allow Indonesian observers in the area near Preah Vihear, but the Thai military has since said they are not welcome and they have yet to be deployed.

In February, UN Security Council members called for "maximum restraint" by the two countries and a permanent ceasefire -- a demand echoed by the chair of the ASEAN regional bloc on Friday.

"Indonesia, as current chair of ASEAN, strongly calls for the immediate cessation of hostilities between Cambodia and Thailand," Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa said in a statement.

He said he was in contact with his Thai and Cambodian counterparts, urging the two countries to "resolve their differences through peaceful means".

Cambodia has called for outside mediation to help end the standoff, but Thailand insists the dispute should be resolved through bilateral talks.

Thailand recently admitted using controversial Dual Purpose Improved Conventional Munitions during the February fighting but insisted it did not classify them as cluster munitions.

The arms are defined as cluster munitions by the global campaign group Cluster Munition Coalition (CMC), which condemned Thailand's use of the weapons.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-04-22

[BuckarooBanzai]

I was having a hard time identifying the clash location from the press releases so went out and took a compass reading on the source of the explosions I heard.

Came out with this location: 14.367927 103.410703 which should be pretty close.

Interesting that this is at a point that Google shows the border cutting pretty deeply into Thailand.

[Schooner]

Looks like the Thai's are not that dumb after all. Seems like they learned a thing or two from the examples of the likes of GW Bush and Ronnie (asleep at the wheel) Regan.

[Oberkommando]

"I think Cambodia wanted to take over temples on the border," he said.

What nonsense! Really.

I wonder if the Thais used cluster munitions again against Cambodian troops?

[Ricci]

11 a.m.

artillery fire heard 20 clicks away

[rogerman]

Interesting that this is at a point that Google shows the border cutting pretty deeply into Thailand.

How can anyone say it was Thailands land?

1. the area hasn't been marked in the first place and

2. Was never Thai owned land in the first place.

It's amazing how many people know so little and yet make out they know so much

[Oberkommando]

Yes , offered $800.00 per ILLEGAL household or city accommodation , <deleted> disturbers have ganged up to demand more .

Mentioning the Phnom Penh lake situation was a poor attempt to paint Cambodia in a negative light, to somehow try to prove the nasty Cambodians fired first, were up to no good, or to justify Thai aggression on the border. A disingenuous tactic and one that backfires when a glance in the mirror reveals Thailand to have no end of political problems with an election looming. Not to mention the Thai military seems to be answerable to no-one but itself and seems to be de-facto running the country in lieu of a strong civilian government.

[dunkin2012]

Gosh........... again...........and Again.................. .........

pre-election period ..... Freak things can happen ............ everyday............though...

:jap: make love not war..................dude.........

the borders sealed too?

A case again for a private detective-say Miss Marples ?? WHO DUNNIT FIRST. I suggest give both sides LEGO and construct something to pass the time away, and take their mind off skirmish games. Who is in command here ?? someone is telling to soldiers to open fire, or are they both returning fire as no one started it ? maybe a coincidence they both fored at the same time.

Thai maybe................... to make it an excuse in order to stock up new weapon toys... .... and get commission for it..

or Hun Sen ........................................................ wanna catch attention again after been quiet for a couple of months.... lest Cambodian people forget him

or make it a coincidence............

I just got it ... you mean they have too much free time.....................

then make sth. constructive......

wow............. make the locals living near the edge of the border run like hell...... is for personal entertainment...........

make more sense?

Edited April 22, 2011 by dunkin2012

[webfact]

PM Calls for Army to Protect Border Residents After Latest Round of Clashes

The prime minister has urged the army to maintain high security and to evacuate people from the border area after clashes broke out at the Thai-Cambodian border.

Deputy Secretary-General to the Prime Minister Panithan Wattanayakorn, in his capacity as government spokesperson, stated that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has already received a report on the morning encounter between Thai and Cambodian forces in Surin Province.

He reiterated that officials are to be fully responsible for the residents' security.

The government spokesperson said the army has evacuated local residents near the danger.

As many as eight Thai soldiers have been reported injured, with three in critical condition.

Deputy Prime Minister in charge of national security Suthep Thuagsuban said that he has not been briefed on the cause of the clash.

He said it's possible that it was an accident.

He is awaiting a report from the second region army commander this afternoon.

He also added that the Thai government has always made attempts to reduce tension at the border, and that the government will investigate details before taking any action.

-- Tan Network 2011-04-22

[BuckarooBanzai]

Interesting that this is at a point that Google shows the border cutting pretty deeply into Thailand.

How can anyone say it was Thailands land?

1. the area hasn't been marked in the first place and

2. Was never Thai owned land in the first place.

It's amazing how many people know so little and yet make out they know so much

How would you describe the boarder at this point. It was a descriptive statement and not a political one. And your history leaves a lot to be desired along with your comment.

[Buchholz]

well if only the Thais had accepted monitors in the area the nasty cambodians would not have attacked, well I say attacked, it appears now after all the reports that the cambodian fired the first shot to not be true, we know hear they strayed too close to the thais, so it seems likely the thais fired the first shot.

Observers in the area would stop all of this nonsense, cambodia want them, thailand don't, you do the maths.

Obviously you are unaware of just how far away this is from the Preah Vihear temple. Perhaps you could do the maths.

Or were you under the impression that Indonesian monitors would have been placed along the entire border measuring hundreds and hundreds of kilometers.

As for your "now after all the reports that Cambodian fired the first shot to be not true"... is untrue.

[Buchholz]

Now I am contemplating the real reason the Thai army refused observers in the front line

Were observers ever suggested or planned for this location hundreds of kilometers from Preah Vihear temple?

[dunkin2012]

Yes , offered $800.00 per ILLEGAL household or city accommodation , <deleted> disturbers have ganged up to demand more .

Mentioning the Phnom Penh lake situation was a poor attempt to paint Cambodia in a negative light, to somehow try to prove the nasty Cambodians fired first, were up to no good, or to justify Thai aggression on the border. A disingenuous tactic and one that backfires when a glance in the mirror reveals Thailand to have no end of political problems with an election looming. Not to mention the Thai military seems to be answerable to no-one but itself and seems to be de-facto running the country in lieu of a strong civilian government.

the country is close to civil war between red and yellow.....

after the next election

there are possible outcomes...

1. Democrat join PTP

2.coup

3.Taksin is back...............

[geovalin]

He also added that the Thai government has always made attempts to reduce tension at the border, and that the government will investigate details before taking any action.

-- Tan Network 2011-04-22

He also added that the Thai government has always made attempts to reduce tension at the border, purchasing more and more weaponry, stationing more and more soldiers there, flying over Cambodia with their war airplane, torpedoing any Cambodian effort to bring peace, giving the Thai army the real power in the country, refusing Cambodia to list a temple they have on their territory, etc.

[Buchholz]

Yes , offered $800.00 per ILLEGAL household or city accommodation , <deleted> disturbers have ganged up to demand more .

Mentioning the Phnom Penh lake situation was a poor attempt to paint Cambodia in a negative light, to somehow try to prove the nasty Cambodians fired first, were up to no good, or to justify Thai aggression on the border. A disingenuous tactic and one that backfires when a glance in the mirror reveals Thailand to have no end of political problems with an election looming. Not to mention the Thai military seems to be answerable to no-one but itself and seems to be de-facto running the country in lieu of a strong civilian government.

Those of us in Thailand are well aware of the ongoing factors here, but how many are aware of all the ongoing factors in Cambodia? Additionally, there are more than just today's beatings of elderly women (from the posted article) as factors that can effect their actions in this incident.

To dismiss those Cambodian factors so out of hand is attempting to paint Cambodia in an unjustified positive light.

[Oberkommando]

Those of us in Thailand are well aware of the ongoing factors here, but how many are aware of all the ongoing factors in Cambodia? Additionally, there are more than just today's beatings of elderly women (from the posted article) as factors that can effect their actions in this incident.

To dismiss those Cambodian factors so out of hand is attempting to paint Cambodia in an unjustified positive light.

Hun Sen is of course using the border clashes as a political tool, he's a political veteran and has made the Oxford educated Thai PM appear out of his depth at times. No politician worth his salt would miss the opportunity.

The Thais are playing right into his hands by being so vociferous on this issue. Hun Sen's popularity has improved thanks to the clashes on the border.

Certainly he has history of using misdirection and underhand tactics; the killing of a monk in a Phnom Penh monastery (allegedly by members of his political party) and the burning of the Thai Embassy in the capital (after nationalism was stoked by the comments about Angkor) are two possible diversionary tactics that spring to mind. Then there's also the incident where his wife allegedly killed his famous bit on the side and the subsequent cover up...

But forget all that at the moment because capitalising on this issue as any politician would do is not the point. The point is that this issue is a direct result of rabid right wingers influencing Thai politicians and the military into breaking an initial agreement with Cambodia over the Preah Vihear temple. The Thais are the clear aggressors. Their failure to accept mediation and observers merely compounds their guilt. History shows they attempted to take the temple with military force in 1956. History is not on their side either. Their use of cluster munitions and their subsequent pathetic denials show they are not to be trusted and are not likely to be party to reasonable discourse on the issue.

Hun Sen has merely benefited from overt Thai nationalism, a weak Thai government and military interference in Thai politics.

[dunkin2012]

Those of us in Thailand are well aware of the ongoing factors here, but how many are aware of all the ongoing factors in Cambodia? Additionally, there are more than just today's beatings of elderly women (from the posted article) as factors that can effect their actions in this incident.

To dismiss those Cambodian factors so out of hand is attempting to paint Cambodia in an unjustified positive light.

Hun Sen is of course using the border clashes as a political tool, he's a political veteran and has made the Oxford educated Thai PM appear out of his depth at times. No politician worth his salt would miss the opportunity.

The Thais are playing right into his hands by being so vociferous on this issue. Hun Sen's popularity has improved thanks to the clashes on the border.

Certainly he has history of using misdirection and underhand tactics; the killing of a monk in a Phnom Penh monastery (allegedly by members of his political party) and the burning of the Thai Embassy in the capital (after nationalism was stoked by the comments about Angkor) are two possible diversionary tactics that spring to mind. Then there's also the incident where his wife allegedly killed his famous bit on the side and the subsequent cover up...

But forget all that at the moment because capitalising on this issue as any politician would do is not the point. The point is that this issue is a direct result of rabid right wingers influencing Thai politicians and the military into breaking an initial agreement with Cambodia over the Preah Vihear temple. The Thais are the clear aggressors. Their failure to accept mediation and observers merely compounds their guilt. History shows they attempted to take the temple with military force in 1956. History is not on their side either. Their use of cluster munitions and their subsequent pathetic denials show they are not to be trusted and are not likely to be party to reasonable discourse on the issue.

Hun Sen has merely benefited from overt Thai nationalism, a weak Thai government and military interference in Thai politics.

yep correct............that' makes sense ....

devil tactic .... in 2003 the accusation of a Thai Caleb led to burnt down the embassy......durin' pre-election..... stage...

the same store's repeating then.....