Cockpit Repair Car

[powderpuff]

One needs to keep the pom slang dictionary close by at all times while reading this forum.

[transam]

One needs to keep the pom slang dictionary close by at all times while reading this forum.

Post what your not sure of Puffy and l will do my best to translate.

Hows your Morris Marina going ?

[cali4995]

there's a couple pics of that pesky mechanical adjuster in action. there's usually a slot

in the backing plate and you insert a spoon and turn that starwheel until the brake shoes

contact the drum and then back it off a tad. otherwise you will have excessive pedal travel

with all-mechanical or a hydraulic system. the reason your emergency brake might have a lot

of travel or tighten-up with just one click. it is moving the one shoe mechanically.

Edited April 28, 2011 by cali4995

[cali4995]

i was going to say (before i lost the chance to edit) the one fella makes a good point, modern drums have so little

extra material, you question the sense in turning them. and what the other guy says is true also, if you did machine them,

there's no denying the curvature would change, and you would need a "wearing-in" period. for the new shoes to match the drum.

how much the initial surface contact patch would change, and how long you would have to wait for maximum efficiency are

some interesting questions. and where's that stephen hawking astrophysicist guy when you need him huh? needs a proper job.

[transam]

there's a couple pics of that pesky mechanical adjuster in action. there's usually a slot

in the backing plate and you insert a spoon and turn that starwheel until the brake shoes

contact the drum and then back it off a tad. otherwise you will have excessive pedal travel

with all-mechanical or a hydraulic system. the reason your emergency brake might have a lot

of travel or tighten-up with just one click. it is moving the one shoe mechanically.

Looking at the picture reminds me of some disasters I've had removing the assembly and stuff flying everywhere and then trying to figuring out how it all went back together (those bastard strong springs) .

[Topcroc]

Transam, never a truer word spoken, skun knuckles and bits all over the place. The b@@@@@@d spring was easy to find, the little filled washers with the slot were the hard bit to both find and fit.

[transam]

Transam, never a truer word spoken, skun knuckles and bits all over the place. The b@@@@@@d spring was easy to find, the little filled washers with the slot were the hard bit to both find and fit.

Forgot about those little blighters, yes, the final operation THEN, everything goes sky wards, blood on the floor and words your mrs has never heard before eh.

[Kwasaki]

Transam, never a truer word spoken, skun knuckles and bits all over the place. The b@@@@@@d spring was easy to find, the little filled washers with the slot were the hard bit to both find and fit.

Forgot about those little blighters, yes, the final operation THEN, everything goes sky wards, blood on the floor and words your mrs has never heard before eh.

Getting back to what I wrote earlier, never had any trouble with the springs in an English written interpretation on drum brake shoes assembly with my special tool .

Getting back on topic ' Cockpit ' have good franchisees outlets I would recommend them to anyone whatever car they had, I just hope they do not become complacent and get sloppy like so many main dealer places.

[transam]

Transam, never a truer word spoken, skun knuckles and bits all over the place. The b@@@@@@d spring was easy to find, the little filled washers with the slot were the hard bit to both find and fit.

Forgot about those little blighters, yes, the final operation THEN, everything goes sky wards, blood on the floor and words your mrs has never heard before eh.

Getting back to what I wrote earlier, never had any trouble with the springs in an English written interpretation on drum brake shoes assembly with my special tool .

Getting back on topic ' Cockpit ' have good franchisees outlets I would recommend them to anyone whatever car they had, I just hope they do not become complacent and get sloppy like so many main dealer places.

Special tool, said that to the mrs but she's never been impressed.

[Lickey]

As others have mentioned, skimming the drum alters the circumference and of course the brake shoe contact area, somewhat drastically, so perhaps only 20% of the shoe has contact, and when all the area has contact you have a shoe that is worn at one end and new at the other, so what to do, build up the shoe anchor points, can be done,

In the UK years ago you could buy oversize shoes, to accomadate the skimmed drum, and these would work perfectly, they still make OS shoes for older models because drums were drums then,

Pedal sogginess will be felt by standard shoes and OS drums because the hydralics are trying to push against something that isnt there, ie, small drum contact. We had a tool that would bolt onto the stub axle and shave increments of the OS shoes till the skimmed drum fitted, it was a long process, and new drums are cheaper nowadays,

So if the OP left the garage with new brakepads and OS drums, i would think he had almost no brakes atall,

OP, get the garbage, sorry garage to let off the rear brake ajustment a bit first, then adust the handbrake, i would imagine they wound both up to bed the shoes in quicker, good way to tell is that if the drums are very hot or it wont roll down a slight slope, they are binding, 3 clicks on a handbrake is about right,

[John 1]

OP I would take a lot of the comment's about machining with a grain of salt they are only machining a small amount from the drum and maybe they did the disk's at same time normally they are just taking the ridges out. With disc you can run your finger across the surface to feel these ridges. This has been standard procedure and not replace with new drum's. You will not run out of brakes for the next 11 years.

[kerryk]

OP I would take a lot of the comment's about machining with a grain of salt they are only machining a small amount from the drum and maybe they did the disk's at same time normally they are just taking the ridges out. With disc you can run your finger across the surface to feel these ridges. This has been standard procedure and not replace with new drum's. You will not run out of brakes for the next 11 years.

I feel better now.

[transam]

OP I would take a lot of the comment's about machining with a grain of salt they are only machining a small amount from the drum and maybe they did the disk's at same time normally they are just taking the ridges out. With disc you can run your finger across the surface to feel these ridges. This has been standard procedure and not replace with new drum's. You will not run out of brakes for the next 11 years.

Think your making a bit of an assumption there. A machine shop is there to make money and will skim/machine out big grooves caused by worn out friction material and/or rivet damage. They don't care about contact reduction just doing what they do for cash.

[WarpSpeed]

As others have mentioned, skimming the drum alters the circumference and of course the brake shoe contact area, somewhat drastically, so perhaps only 20% of the shoe has contact, and when all the area has contact you have a shoe that is worn at one end and new at the other, so what to do, build up the shoe anchor points, can be done,

In the UK years ago you could buy oversize shoes, to accomadate the skimmed drum, and these would work perfectly, they still make OS shoes for older models because drums were drums then,

Pedal sogginess will be felt by standard shoes and OS drums because the hydralics are trying to push against something that isnt there, ie, small drum contact. We had a tool that would bolt onto the stub axle and shave increments of the OS shoes till the skimmed drum fitted, it was a long process, and new drums are cheaper nowadays,

So if the OP left the garage with new brakepads and OS drums, i would think he had almost no brakes atall,

OP, get the garbage, sorry garage to let off the rear brake ajustment a bit first, then adust the handbrake, i would imagine they wound both up to bed the shoes in quicker, good way to tell is that if the drums are very hot or it wont roll down a slight slope, they are binding, 3 clicks on a handbrake is about right,

Well stated, good to see a true mechanic who understands the true mechanics of drum brakes..

Edited April 29, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

OP I would take a lot of the comment's about machining with a grain of salt they are only machining a small amount from the drum and maybe they did the disk's at same time normally they are just taking the ridges out. With disc you can run your finger across the surface to feel these ridges. This has been standard procedure and not replace with new drum's. You will not run out of brakes for the next 11 years.

Think your making a bit of an assumption there. A machine shop is there to make money and will skim/machine out big grooves caused by worn out friction material and/or rivet damage. They don't care about contact reduction just doing what they do for cash.

Yes and besides I'm sure the OP mentioned "drums" not disks quite the difference... 11 years? Surely if you park the car and don't drive it for 8 of those years and you suggest not taking MY advice?? Oh! The hilarity...

[featography]

Transam, never a truer word spoken, skun knuckles and bits all over the place. The b@@@@@@d spring was easy to find, the little filled washers with the slot were the hard bit to both find and fit.

Forgot about those little blighters, yes, the final operation THEN, everything goes sky wards, blood on the floor and words your mrs has never heard before eh.

Which is why I always prefered to pay expensive mechanics back home to do the brake jobs. I found it much less inconvenient to lighten my wallet than beat up my knuckles, and crawl around the floor looking for springs and other rusty parts. Even at the going rates per hour for labor, I factor in time is money. My time is worth a lot. Why spend half to 2/3 of a day doing a brake job myself due to lack of practice, when the pro can do it in a couple of hours?

[transam]

Transam, never a truer word spoken, skun knuckles and bits all over the place. The b@@@@@@d spring was easy to find, the little filled washers with the slot were the hard bit to both find and fit.

Forgot about those little blighters, yes, the final operation THEN, everything goes sky wards, blood on the floor and words your mrs has never heard before eh.

Which is why I always prefered to pay expensive mechanics back home to do the brake jobs. I found it much less inconvenient to lighten my wallet than beat up my knuckles, and crawl around the floor looking for springs and other rusty parts. Even at the going rates per hour for labor, I factor in time is money. My time is worth a lot. Why spend half to 2/3 of a day doing a brake job myself due to lack of practice, when the pro can do it in a couple of hours?

Some of us have hobbies which include classic cars that no other hands touch.

Look at my avatar, my work, nooooobody touches it.

Edited May 1, 2011 by transam

[WarpSpeed]

Transam, never a truer word spoken, skun knuckles and bits all over the place. The b@@@@@@d spring was easy to find, the little filled washers with the slot were the hard bit to both find and fit.

Forgot about those little blighters, yes, the final operation THEN, everything goes sky wards, blood on the floor and words your mrs has never heard before eh.

Which is why I always prefered to pay expensive mechanics back home to do the brake jobs. I found it much less inconvenient to lighten my wallet than beat up my knuckles, and crawl around the floor looking for springs and other rusty parts. Even at the going rates per hour for labor, I factor in time is money. My time is worth a lot. Why spend half to 2/3 of a day doing a brake job myself due to lack of practice, when the pro can do it in a couple of hours?

Some of us have hobbies which include classic cars that no other hands touch.

Look at my avatar, my work, nooooobody touches it.

Yes but besides, here you'd be really lucky to find a mechanic that doesn't recycle parts well beyond it's last bit of usefulness due in large part to the time and difficulty they'd have to spend to locate a part just to have someone tell them it's too much as happens often here with the locals.. So they're conditioned just to say "no need" to get the job and don't even consider replacing many parts that should be, in the process of doing the job. Additionally they just don't fully understand the engineering behind the parts purpose in many cases, we tend to take finding replacement parts for granted back home where it's easy to do.. They're better engineers then the manufactures don't ya know ?

I just had to pull the head off a '69' Crown and found that they recycled all but the head gasket and in the case of the valve cover gasket they used silicone which is now a big mess to clean off and begin over as well the intake gasket but as well the uneven silicone causes turbulence in the intake and disturbs clean air flow.

The exhaust gasket was of course leaking and besides being noisy spewing exhaust into the cab (that wasn't dangerous with the windows rolled up and A/C on ) I knew one part of the gasket was leaking where they had broken off a bolt in the head but now having taken it apart I see that several were leaking and I can tell it was recycled.. True it's a '69' but it's a Toyota and parts such as these have been used on other engines and even some can be crossed over from other models such as in the case of replacing the rear drums which I had a set of newer pickup truck drums cut down slightly to do the job.

I just can't see going through all that labor, any amount of cost and then not replacing EVERY part that shows the need or don't do the job at all and some should be just common sense to even the basic mechanic..

I installed a second hand tranny on a VW and in doing so was replacing all the seals, clutch, pressure plate, inspected the flywheel and also replaced the throw out bearing for good measure all quite simple while the tranny is out and not too expensive. I had considered a local shop to do this but they argued that the seals weren't available when I knew better and I told them I'd pick up the seals but they claimed the tranny had to be opened to replace them so that was the final straw when I knew better as I've done a hundred of them personally..

When the used tranny was delivered they threw in the old clutch clearly expecting that I would want to use it again suggesting it's common practice here. It was less then half life and worse yet one of the tension springs had busted through it's retainer and then been re-welded because the clutch had not been properly centered while installing (no such thing as a proper flywheel centering tool here for these cars according to the parts sources I have, had one brought in from the states not expensive at all) nor was the flywheel installed properly on it's guides when originally installed and the evidence was on the tranny housing by way of scrub marks..

Somehow the flywheel was not damaged but the clutch I wouldn't have used anyways was just junk. Another common thing I noticed in 5 out of 5 trannies that had been rebuilt here previously was the fact that there is a spring tension washer under the hub seal on both sides of the tranny and it is concaved to provide tension on the hubs to prevent them from 'jackhammering' against the differential and ruining the bearings, seals and inner differential.

The key is they need to be installed with the tension towards the hub and it's quite a job to do but, that's the point they are supposed to be pretensioned and if done right do just barely fit. If installed upside down however they are useless as they provide no pretension that way and all 5 of these trannies from different sources that had been previously rebuilt were done wrong which makes one wonder about the inside as trannies are tricky, quirky and require a very detailed mechanic who knows the quirks and tricks to rebuild them correctly ..

[Lickey]

Warpy, good to see you have calmed down, whats all this about trans? you trying to get me going or something?

well , yes you are right, if it isnt overhauled correctly, by a factory trained Tech, you will most likely have problems, I had 5 years of re-building Allison 4 speed and World series electronic controlled trans, [allauto] , as one of the only agents for Allison in the UK, these boxes had to have a 2 year guarantee, most of the trans came from buses or dustcarts, so you can imagine the hard stop/start work they had, in drive all day long, We could programme the electronic boxes to hold a gear on a hill, rather than changing up, loosing power then going down a gear again,

I seen some very worn out auto boxes, and some faliures, if the box was abused, ive never seen it, ..

[jomtienbob]

I was shocked when I went to the Pattaya branch of Cockpit this week. I had to have ball joints and tires replaced and the diagnosis and professionalism from the mechanics was good, but the old Chinese lady owner was a complete red flag (if you'll pardon the pun)

I asked for a quote before they did the work and they gave me a handwritten piece of clap scribbled on a bit of paper, but I said OK. then when they did do the job they demanded much more money than quoted (surprise??). Well I had nothing formal to argue upon. Then when I went to pay they demanded ONLY cash even though there are 1st choice banners and credit card stickers all over the joint. We ended up settling on a compromise of cash and card and then she gives me a receipt for the whole job that looks like it's from a noodle stand vendor! No name no company stamp, this is how much I want written on it. It was so disgraceful, I felt like I was at a backyard joint with something criminal going on.

I have a company here and if we did that we would be in so much trouble from our own accountant let alone Revenue Dept. But Ahh yes sorry I am a foreigner we have different rules to go by here. Anyhow the work I guess was OK but the 1960's style of business is not for me. I will not return nor recommend them ever.

[transam]

I was shocked when I went to the Pattaya branch of Cockpit this week. I had to have ball joints and tires replaced and the diagnosis and professionalism from the mechanics was good, but the old Chinese lady owner was a complete red flag (if you'll pardon the pun)

I asked for a quote before they did the work and they gave me a handwritten piece of clap scribbled on a bit of paper, but I said OK. then when they did do the job they demanded much more money than quoted (surprise??). Well I had nothing formal to argue upon. Then when I went to pay they demanded ONLY cash even though there are 1st choice banners and credit card stickers all over the joint. We ended up settling on a compromise of cash and card and then she gives me a receipt for the whole job that looks like it's from a noodle stand vendor! No name no company stamp, this is how much I want written on it. It was so disgraceful, I felt like I was at a backyard joint with something criminal going on.

I have a company here and if we did that we would be in so much trouble from our own accountant let alone Revenue Dept. But Ahh yes sorry I am a foreigner we have different rules to go by here. Anyhow the work I guess was OK but the 1960's style of business is not for me. I will not return nor recommend them ever.

Contact Cockpit head office with your tale. Perhaps the lady is scamming cash that is not registered with the company. I would.

[SamMunich]

Dunno how far this is off topic, but found no other place to post it on ThaiVisa:

A friend of mine has an old Toyota Crown (approx 20 years old) and is looking for a reliable, professional repair shop, where they also use 2nd hand parts of good quality (I doubt there are 20 year old pristine spareparts).

He complains, that most shops turn him away, because his car is too old...

He lives in Bangkok, somewhere between Sukhumvit and Rama III.

Thanks,

Sam M.

[overherebc]

OP I would take a lot of the comment's about machining with a grain of salt they are only machining a small amount from the drum and maybe they did the disk's at same time normally they are just taking the ridges out. With disc you can run your finger across the surface to feel these ridges. This has been standard procedure and not replace with new drum's. You will not run out of brakes for the next 11 years.

Just a small point to add, once bought two front disks that were not original equipment, ie pattern, and was amazed by the pad knock back I had. Only way to stop it was by getting a couple of thou taken off.

Obviously now only buy original parts unless absolute emergency.

[Kwasaki]

Dunno how far this is off topic, but found no other place to post it on ThaiVisa:

A friend of mine has an old Toyota Crown (approx 20 years old) and is looking for a reliable, professional repair shop, where they also use 2nd hand parts of good quality (I doubt there are 20 year old pristine spareparts).

He complains, that most shops turn him away, because his car is too old...

He lives in Bangkok, somewhere between Sukhumvit and Rama III.

Thanks,

Sam M.

I would start a new topic if I were you otherwise your question may get lost so to speak.

There are classic car owner in Bangkok and all over. K

[black fox]

the word is pedal.