Chiang Mai, Loi Kroh Road

[IanForbes]

The main thing that has changed in the past 5 years is the economy has gone steadily downward everywhere. Take away any portion of the high rollers and the girls all drift off to greener pastures. I know of at least 5 of my prettier girl friends who have left Chaiang Mai. Some got married and others just weren't earning enough here and left for home. There are still more than enough for me, but I have seen a change. I could post pictures but the mods don't like that.

[Beetlejuice]

Personally I would like to see the whole area levelled and replaced with new decent Western style restaurants, giving more choice for tourists and those living here alike, no more open beer bars, all beer bars restored with frontages and doors.

good plan, revamp everything so its "western style". How stupid of some people to think that tourists or foriegners here would enjoy things being Thai!!!

So glad that you agree with me.

[dylan137]

Hi. I've read through this thread with interest. My friend and I are making our 2nd trip to Thailand in September this year, having previously visited Bangkok, Patong and Samui. This time we're flying straight to CM

Exploring the 'P4P' scene is not top of our agenda whilst in CM, but I would be in denial to say it won't be considered. We'll be there for 5-6 nights

If the overall quality, including BG's, has deteriorated as many of you are here suggesting, what is the alternative to Loi Kroh Road whilst in CM? Or should we save our monies for Patong etc?

Many thanks

[dave2]

re ... Exploring the 'P4P' scene is not top of our agenda whilst in CM, but I would be in denial to say it won't be considered. We'll be there for 5-6 nights

for 5 or 6 nights youd be best looking on loi kroh road and stay safe

we cant have you seeing number 8 , 12 . 16 , and my favorite number 23 for a whole 5 nights

its just not on ... dave2 : )

[Beetlejuice]

Hi. I've read through this thread with interest. My friend and I are making our 2nd trip to Thailand in September this year, having previously visited Bangkok, Patong and Samui. This time we're flying straight to CM

Exploring the 'P4P' scene is not top of our agenda whilst in CM, but I would be in denial to say it won't be considered. We'll be there for 5-6 nights

If the overall quality, including BG's, has deteriorated as many of you are here suggesting, what is the alternative to Loi Kroh Road whilst in CM? Or should we save our monies for Patong etc?

Many thanks

No alternatives. Save your money for Patong or somewhere else which is the opposite direction from Chiang Mai..

I am sure some will say otherwise, but will not be able to tell you where all this spectacular and night time extravaganzas are located, unless you like music, ah sorry, I think that was banned last week.

So if you enjoy wine, women and song with your nightly entertainments, in Chiang Mai if you’ll really lucky you maybe able to obtain a bottle of wine somewhere.

Unless anyone knows better, then I will swallow my words.

[IanForbes]

Hi. I've read through this thread with interest. My friend and I are making our 2nd trip to Thailand in September this year, having previously visited Bangkok, Patong and Samui. This time we're flying straight to CM

Exploring the 'P4P' scene is not top of our agenda whilst in CM, but I would be in denial to say it won't be considered. We'll be there for 5-6 nights

If the overall quality, including BG's, has deteriorated as many of you are here suggesting, what is the alternative to Loi Kroh Road whilst in CM? Or should we save our monies for Patong etc?

Many thanks

No alternatives. Save your money for Patong or somewhere else which is the opposite direction from Chiang Mai..

I am sure some will say otherwise, but will not be able to tell you where all this spectacular and night time extravaganzas are located, unless you like music, ah sorry, I think that was banned last week.

So if you enjoy wine, women and song with your nightly entertainments, in Chiang Mai if you'll really lucky you maybe able to obtain a bottle of wine somewhere.

Unless anyone knows better, then I will swallow my words.

Start swallowing. But I'm not giving out personal phone numbers. And, just as a reminder, the ladies in Phuket's Patong area are twice as expensive as anywhere else in Thailand.

[cobra]

The BGs there appear uniformly unattractive. Not young, not old, average age perhaps around 30ish, but cheap and nasty..

Sometimes Bad is just Bad,

Huey Lewis and the News,

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Loi Kroi is where you'll find the women Thai men have no interest in. IE old and ugly. Only farang show any interest in them.

You could say the same thing about Patong. Average age may be slightly less, but the argument remains the same.

[mamborobert]

Went through Loi Kroh last night and there are lots of girls, and again not many customers.

There are some "older" ladies there for sure but quite a few in very early 20's as well, most average, some very attractive. Its a broad (excuse the pun) cross section, certainly not all boiler bars thats for sure.

My grandfather, (bless his sole) had an ugly phrase that "all cats are grey in the dark", but there is an abundant choice available for all tastes if that is your inclination.

Funny comment about finding girls there that Thai men have no taste for....oddly enough there are more than a few paler skinned young girls who are on prospective husband hunting expeditions and they are not interested in Thai men either

[IanForbes]

All I can say is it is a shame I can't (won't) post photos of the pretty ones that I do know are available. Anybody who is even half way interested can find that out for themselves. And, not all gals in the bars I frequent on Loi Kroh are available at any price. Many have husbands or boy friends, and I know for a fact they are monogamous. Many here DO like to jump to conclusions.

I also know of at least two higher end massage parlours where there are pretty gals on display in these semi-private clubs. Ask around and they are not hard to find. All the tuk tuk drivers know.

[elektrified]

For some strange reason, in my browser all of Ian Forbes posts have a photo of him (at least I think it is him - bald head and all - but very grainy photo) standing in front of 3 huge pizzas in what looks like a glass display case.

I'm not sure what it has do to with Loy Kroh and/or BG's. Is this another one of those strange promotions of Ian Forbes image?

[Loaded]

All I can say is it is a shame I can't (won't) post photos of the pretty ones that I do know are available. Anybody who is even half way interested can find that out for themselves. And, not all gals in the bars I frequent on Loi Kroh are available at any price. Many have husbands or boy friends, and I know for a fact they are monogamous. Many here DO like to jump to conclusions.

I also know of at least two higher end massage parlours where there are pretty gals on display in these semi-private clubs. Ask around and they are not hard to find. All the tuk tuk drivers know.

I know you are well intentioned, but you also come across, to someone who has been here a lot longer than you, as very naive. To an old man they may come across as monogamous because they have a face to protect and earnings from sponsors afford them the luxury of choice. When I was younger and physically more attractive, I had lots of adventures with girls from bars old men thought were monogamous.

The levels of economic relationship here are complex and cannot relate to any Western concept of relationship. I started to write about a few, but I deleted because I know there will be Western guys reading who have relationships with sex workers but who don't understand how they are perceived by Thai society and they may be offended by my descriptions.

PS

If you take a tuk tuk to an establishment such as a soapy massage parlour, the commission to the driver will be paid by you.

[Ulysses G.]

For some strange reason, in my browser all of Ian Forbes posts have a photo of him (at least I think it is him - bald head and all - but very grainy photo) standing in front of 3 huge pizzas in what looks like a glass display case.

It is a local pizza place advertising on Google ads.

[mamborobert]

All I can say is it is a shame I can't (won't) post photos of the pretty ones that I do know are available. Anybody who is even half way interested can find that out for themselves. And, not all gals in the bars I frequent on Loi Kroh are available at any price. Many have husbands or boy friends, and I know for a fact they are monogamous. Many here DO like to jump to conclusions.

I also know of at least two higher end massage parlours where there are pretty gals on display in these semi-private clubs. Ask around and they are not hard to find. All the tuk tuk drivers know.

I know you are well intentioned, but you also come across, to someone who has been here a lot longer than you, as very naive. To an old man they may come across as monogamous because they have a face to protect and earnings from sponsors afford them the luxury of choice. When I was younger and physically more attractive, I had lots of adventures with girls from bars old men thought were monogamous.

The levels of economic relationship here are complex and cannot relate to any Western concept of relationship. I started to write about a few, but I deleted because I know there will be Western guys reading who have relationships with sex workers but who don't understand how they are perceived by Thai society and they may be offended by my descriptions.

PS

If you take a tuk tuk to an establishment such as a soapy massage parlour, the commission to the driver will be paid by you.

Sorry...can't let this one go, even if we are straying off topic a bit.

Firstly more than agree that absent benefactors and the risk of losing same keeps some girls publicly unavailable. But if you can keep your mouth shut and not screw up any ongoing financial supplements they are on I would say all of the Loi Kroh girls would be freindly to teh right person, not neccesarily any person. 100% agree.

The bit I can't let go is the length of stay in Thailand makes anyone a guru. On Loi Kroh you will often see seasoned expats repeating the same mistake time after time. Meeting a bar girl, going out with a bar girl, marrying a bar girl, she or he does not change, costly divorce, back to Loi Kroh and the cycle continues wash, stir, rinse, repeat. Years of stay cannot overcome a total lack of social or intuitive skills. The same people would be awash anywhere but as a baht millionaire they do get a wilder ride.

Length of stay does not make you smarter by any means.

You have referred to the finances of bar girls, that is an economic reality for sure but I do not think many of them chose their career in primary school, economics is certainly at play. Treating people nicely with dignity and respect will get you taken advantage of some times for sure, but I would rather do that and be taken advantage of occasionally than become part of the wash, stir, rinse, repeat crowd or worse still the all thai females/all females are "fill in appropriate mysognist phrase" crowd.

Likewise Ian's age may be shaping may his views and respect for ALL women, that's not a bad thing and the world of Farangs (and indeed Thais) may be better if one echoes this respect.

Its not about how I am treated..I have little control over that, but I am totally responsible for how I treat others.

End of sermon :jap:

But jeez its quiet in Loi Kroh now ............

[WinnieTheKhwai]

and I know for a fact they are monogamous.

Yes, I am monogamous too. Strictly one at a time!

higher end massage parlours [...] Ask around and they are not hard to find. All the tuk tuk drivers know.

I would never ask that kind of question to a Tuk Tuk driver. Like writing them a blank check. Hint: It's called Google.

I know you are well intentioned, but you also come across, to someone who has been here a lot longer than you, as very naive.

Yes. It makes me jealous as $)*#& too. : Same applies to that Fishman dude's posts. I wish I could recapture that spirit.

[Loaded]

The bit I can't let go is the length of stay in Thailand makes anyone a guru. On Loi Kroh you will often see seasoned expats repeating the same mistake time after time. Meeting a bar girl, going out with a bar girl, marrying a bar girl, she or he does not change, costly divorce, back to Loi Kroh and the cycle continues wash, stir, rinse, repeat. Years of stay cannot overcome a total lack of social or intuitive skills. The same people would be awash anywhere but as a baht millionaire they do get a wilder ride.

If they are marrying a bargirl, I quite agree.

[IanForbes]

Well, if some of you say that all married women working in the Loi Kroh area are "available" for the right stranger, then I can also say that all YOUR wives are ALSO available for the right stranger.

You can't have it both ways. I'm not naive and I DO know the specific women I am thinking about. But, whether or not a woman sleeps with men for money or just because she enjoys it does not matter a bit to me. I'm just happy that there are lovely young women willing to spend their time with old geezers like me. And, for some strange reason they don't seem to mind my company.

[Loaded]

Well, if some of you say that all married women working in the Loi Kroh area are "available" for the right stranger, then I can also say that all YOUR wives are ALSO available for the right stranger.

Spend some time away from the bars and you might discover Thailand.

[CMX]

...for some strange reason they don't seem to mind my company.

Er.... Doubtless it's personality. I have no doubt at all that a happy person's attitude draws positive results.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Well, if some of you say that all married women working in the Loi Kroh area are "available" for the right stranger, then I can also say that all YOUR wives are ALSO available for the right stranger.

You can't have it both ways. I'm not naive and I DO know the specific women I am thinking about. But, whether or not a woman sleeps with men for money or just because she enjoys it does not matter a bit to me. I'm just happy that there are lovely young women willing to spend their time with old geezers like me. And, for some strange reason they don't seem to mind my company.

I don't think anyone is doubting that.

I do wonder why any of that matters.. monogamous or not, who really cares?

[lanna2011]

There are a mixture of girls everywhere -I have met some VERY nice girls on Loi Khro - particularly when i first arrived here and knew nowt. Now I tend to go fishing in other places where it can be F4P (no pun intended)

[Beetlejuice]

Meanwhile, back to one posters original question, it`s either the skank and relics of Chiang Mai`s night entertainments in the Loi Kroh road and surrounding areas or nothing.

But all is not lost!

Chiang Mai has lots of temples, a couple of elephants that do shows, the hot springs, supermarkets and you can watch people painting umbrellas.

Also not forgetting the massage parlours, places that give someone's old granny, mother or Auntie the option of guaranteed employment, helping them to be totally independent instead of having to rely on their families for support.

[uptheos]

Wow BJ, 7,500 views, I bet you didn't realise Loi Kroh hits at the heart of so many.

[Beetlejuice]

Wow BJ, 7,500 views, I bet you didn't realise Loi Kroh hits at the heart of so many.

I think it`s because there are issues here that many want to ask questions about but are afraid to ask or afraid to mention.

As I have said, I am no expert at anything; I can only judge the same as anyone else regarding what I see, what I read, by the amount of news given out on the media and hearing the opinions of friends and family that have visited Chiang Mai.

So far everything suggests that the tourist figures in Chiang Mai have been in sharp decline over the years, yet no one seems to want to address these issues in ways that gets to the core of the problem.

It is fact that worldwide the economies are down, everything has become more expensive and more people have begun penny pinching then ever before. This I believe is the main cause of dwindling tourist numbers, over and above the red shirts and other past political troubles.

In order to bring those dollars back again, Chiang Mai has to do more and try harder to create more attractions that will reel in the punters. The bait on the hook.

As I see the situation, Chiang Mai has gone in the wrong direction by restricting rather than expanding. I think the recent clamp down on music venues is a typical example of bureaucratic nonsense put into action.

No matter what type of businesses people are in, whether they want: sex pats, ex pats, tourists that include those out for a good time, families, elderly, young and so on, there has to be more laid on to convince them to part with their money and create an interest which makes visitors want to return again.

Surely this would be of benefit to the city, it`s business community and the residents?

[IanForbes]

Good post, BJ. .... Hmmm, did I just say THAT.

Yes, there are a lot of things that could spruce up the city a bit, but it takes an entirely different mind set and that is unlikely to happen. There are too many people with power who have their hands stuck deep in the cooky jar and they don't want change. And, it is impossible to change idealistic thinking. So, it still comes down to compromise.

[heybruce]

Wow BJ, 7,500 views, I bet you didn't realise Loi Kroh hits at the heart of so many.

I think it`s because there are issues here that many want to ask questions about but are afraid to ask or afraid to mention.

As I have said, I am no expert at anything; I can only judge the same as anyone else regarding what I see, what I read, by the amount of news given out on the media and hearing the opinions of friends and family that have visited Chiang Mai.

So far everything suggests that the tourist figures in Chiang Mai have been in sharp decline over the years, yet no one seems to want to address these issues in ways that gets to the core of the problem.

It is fact that worldwide the economies are down, everything has become more expensive and more people have begun penny pinching then ever before. This I believe is the main cause of dwindling tourist numbers, over and above the red shirts and other past political troubles.

In order to bring those dollars back again, Chiang Mai has to do more and try harder to create more attractions that will reel in the punters. The bait on the hook.

As I see the situation, Chiang Mai has gone in the wrong direction by restricting rather than expanding. I think the recent clamp down on music venues is a typical example of bureaucratic nonsense put into action.

No matter what type of businesses people are in, whether they want: sex pats, ex pats, tourists that include those out for a good time, families, elderly, young and so on, there has to be more laid on to convince them to part with their money and create an interest which makes visitors want to return again.

Surely this would be of benefit to the city, it`s business community and the residents?

Look at it from the point of view of the BIB; when you lose revenue from one source you have to squeeze more from the other sources.

[dylan137]

Thank you for your replies to my question. In all honesty I was expecting to be 'flamed' as a new member etc

It appears your opinions are split over the quality of Loi Kroh Road. Just to reiterate, my friend and I aren't coming to CM (or Thailand overall) for the working girl scene. Thats purely a bonus of our trip

As Beetlejuice has said, it is the other well known attractions of CM that want us to visit

I am sorry to hear CM has worsened in recent years. That's certainly not the picture thats been painted to me by many friends whom have visited the area, all quite recently too. Some of them have visited Thailand many times over a number of years

It's a little way off yet (September) but I'll post back with my thoughts of LKR and CM in general when back

Thanks again

[Mapguy]

This thread is beginning to sound like it should be entitled "Guidebook for Dirty Old Men in Chiang Mai."

[Mapguy]

Wow BJ, 7,500 views, I bet you didn't realise Loi Kroh hits at the heart of so many.

Or strikes a bodily chord elsewhere!

[Ulysses G.]

Perhaps the long anticipated opening of Lolitas CM will offer more stable employment opportunities,add a touch of color to L K road area, and fill us with tumescent civic pride

Lolitas is indeed a fine institution and would be warmly welcomed in Chiang Mai.