Thai-Cambodian Border Clash Flares Again

[webfact]

THAI-CAMBODIA BORDER CONFLICTS

Kasit to meet Asean Chair in Jakarta Thursday

By The Nation

Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya will meet Asean Chair Marty Natalegawa in Jakarta on Thursday on the sideline of an Asean's ministerial meeting to discuss current border disputes with Cambodia, deputy government spokesman Supachai Jaisamutr said Wednesday.

Kasit is initially scheduled to represent Thailand in Asean's Social and Cultural meeting in Jakarta so he will take opportunity to discuss the Thai-Cambodia border dispute with Marty, also Indonesian foreign minister.

Marty, as Asean Chair, had reschuduled his planned visit to Thailand and Cambodia to push for a renewed ceasefire after both countries renewed border fightings in Surin province last Friday.

The skirmish on Tuesday spreaded to an area near Preah Vihear Temple.

Meanwhile Kasit is scheduled to brief Chinese and Vietnamese ambassadors to Thailand on the latest fatal border clashes between Thai and Cambodian troops.

Foreign Ministry's spokesman Thani Thongpakdi said Tuesday Kasit will meet the Chinese ambassador at about 5pm and the Vietnamese ambassador at 5.30pm.

Briefings come in the wake of escalating border tension between Thailand and Cambodia with the exchange of fire on April 22-25 near the 13th-century Ta Muen Thom and Tha Kwai temples in northeastern Surin province bordering Cambodia's Otdar Mean Chey province.

-- TNA 2011-04-26

[BuckarooBanzai]

6:12 - Starting to get really intense now on the border directly south of Prasat. Many many artillery rounds being fired.

[BuckarooBanzai]

7:00 - Much more intense than last night all along border from the temple and eastward. The sky is continually lit with the flashes.

[geovalin]

Cambodia clash: Is Thailand going rogue?

By Bangkok Pundit Apr 26, 2011

WSJ in an opinion piece on the latest Thai-Cambodian border clashes which has killed 12 people. Key excerpt:

The world may never know which side started the latest clash, since Thailand continues to resist allowing international observers to monitor the area. And both countries deserve some blame for stirring the pot at various times. Nevertheless, it has become increasingly clear that the Thai military is doing nothing to ease the tension.

That much we know from the way that the military, and then Bangkok, vetoed initiatives to get the two sides talking.

Please read the full article

http://asiancorrespondent.com/53147/thailand-going-rogue/

[geriatrickid]

Oh to know what is being discussed between China and the USA at this time.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Now a big thunderstorm is developing on the border. Don't know if this will slow down the shelling.

http://www2.tmd.go.th/radar/ubn240.php

[elcent]

Cambodia, Thailand to discuss ceasefire: Phnom Penh(AFP) – 1 hour ago

PHNOM PENH — The Thai and Cambodian defence ministers will meet soon to discuss a truce, Phnom Penh said on Tuesday, after five days of heavy border fighting left 13 troops dead.

"Cambodian Defence Minister Tea Banh has agreed to meet his Thai counterpart in Phnom Penh shortly to discuss a ceasefire between the two countries," the Cambodian defence ministry said in a statement. http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gsJ5Gl6NevPb2NKoZ3cxosiC41SA?docId=CNG.ce5e2e67a61454295cd54a08b0ebf3f2.561

[elcent]

Evacuees have gathered thoughout Oddar Meanchey’s Samroang town, roughly 45 kilometres from the border – in pagodas, outside government offices and at the O’Russei primary school. Others have gathered in villages in nearby Banteay Ampil district, where the Cambodian Red Cross has set up relief services to go along with those in Samroang.

Uy Sam Ath, director of the disaster management department at the Cambodian Red Cross, said yesterday evening that a total of 22,384 people in Oddar Meanchey had been displaced by the fighting, with 11,558 taking refuge in Samroang town and another 10,826 in Banteay Ampil. At least nine homes in Banteay Ampil district have been destroyed by shells from Thailand, he added. ... full article here ... http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/2011042648699/National-news/displaced-civilians-facing-uncertainty.html

[elcent]

BANGKOK, April 26 (Xinhua) -- Thai Royal Army spokesman Col. Sansern Kaewkamnerd said on Tuesday that another fresh round of gunfire exchange took place nearby Preah Vihear temple at about 1. 30 p.m. as Cambodia misinterpreted Thai Air Force's military exercise.

Col. Sansern said Cambodian troops misinterpreted the Air Force ' s military exercise which included flying a fleet of F-16 fighter jets and started opening fire at Thai soldiers. After exchanging gunfire, cannon firing followed.

"The Air Force was conducting military exercise as usual," Col. Sansern told Xinhua by telephone but refused to elaborate further when the exercise would finish. http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-04/26/c_13846896.htm

a joke, isn't it?

[elcent]

Thai, Cambodia border clashes spread

PHOTO

The fighting broke out southwest of the 900-year-old Preah Vihear temple, which is claimed by both southeast Asian nations. [Reuters]

VIDEO from Australia Network News

Continued fighting along the Thai-Cambodia border in a territorial dispute.

Created: Tue, 26 Apr 20:25:31 UTC+0700 2011

Rob Carmichael, Phnom Penh

Last Updated: 4 hours 55 minutes ago

Thai and Cambodian troops have briefly clashed on Tuesday near the Preah Vihear temple, about 150 kilometres away from where they have been fighting for the past four days.

The recent clash is raising concern the conflict could spread to other poorly demarcated border areas.

The Cambodian government said fighting between Cambodian and Thai troops was underway near the flashpoint temple of Preah Vihear on its northern border.

http://australianetworknews.com/stories/201104/3199847.htm?desktop

[elcent]

Thai-Cambodian troops clash on border

Updated April 26, 2011 16:23:52

The Cambodian Defence Ministry says shelling has damaged two ancient temples on the Thai Cambodian border but gave no further details about what damage might have been done to the temples - Ta Moan and Ta Krabey.

The Thais reject the accusation, saying shells fired by Cambodia failed to make it across the border implying any damage may be the fault of Cambodian troops. The clashes began on Friday and after a short lull in fighting flared up again yesterday.

Presenter: Sen Lam

Speaker: Vannarith Chheang, director, Cambodian Institute for Cooperation & Peace

• Listen:
• Windows Media ---- inclusive the mentioning of Thai aircraft attacking positions inside Cambodia ... click windows media and listen to it. ... pretty good interview in English.
• http://www.radioaust...04/s3200529.htm

Edited April 26, 2011 by elcent

[Buchholz]

A Thai toddler who fled the fighting between Thai and Cambodian soldiers spends time at an evacuation center in Surin province, northeastern Thailand, Tuesday, April 26, 2011. Officials said Tuesday the worst fighting between the two countries in years has spread, with both sides exchanging artillery and rifle-fire near another temple in a disputed zone along the border.« Read less

Associated Press Photo (by Sakchai Lalit)

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//110426/481/urn_publicid_ap_org85037501251e4506acaf4574e2d158bc/

Outstanding work, Sakchai

Edited April 26, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

And elsewhere...

on a different plane,,,

Thailand was confiscating and taking away Cambodian ammunition. (presumably after Cambodia retreated from an area).

*edit. I suppose there are other possible explanations, such as a patrol went into a Cambodian camp and simply took the grenades and bullets away from them in the middle of the night.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

A Thai soldier displays munitions seized during clashes with Cambodian troops at a news conference in Thailand's Surin province April 26, 2011. Thailand sent troop reinforcements to its border with Cambodia on Tuesday after four days of fighting killed at least 13 people in the bloodiest clashes between the neighbours in nearly two decades, but the guns were silent as focus shifted to diplomacy.

REUTERS

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//110426/ids_photos_wl/r982479897.jpg/

A Thai soldier holds onto munitions seized during clashes with Cambodian troops, at a news conference in Thailand's Surin province April 26, 2011. Thailand sent troop reinforcements to its border with Cambodia on Tuesday after four days of fighting killed at least 13 people in the bloodiest clashes between the neighbours in nearly two decades, but the guns were silent as focus shifted to diplomacy.

REUTERS

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//110426/ids_photos_wl/r2935076739.jpg/

[jayboy]

Thailand has become something of a international example of dishonesty.Shame on the appalling Thai generals and shame on the weak kneed government, in thrall to reaction and

repression.

The Independent summarises the position well.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/the-ancient-temples-under-fire-in-an-ageold-conflict-2274773.html

Edited April 26, 2011 by metisdead
Removed baiting comments.

[mania2301]

Border fighting erupts at chong chom border pass at around 6pm....lasted for about 10 minutes.

[Buchholz]

Thai Troops Seize Weapons from Cambodian Soldiers

The Thai army has reported seizing war weapons from Cambodian troops during the border clash near the ancient Ta Muen Thom Temple.

Prime Minister's Office Minister Ongart Klampaibul, along with head of the Region 2 Army Public Relations Office, Colonel Preeda Butratch, announced that Thai troops seized war weapons from Cambodian soldiers during the border clash near the Ta Muen Thom Temple on Sunday.

A paramilitary unit deployed at an army camp east of the Ta Muen Thom Temple confronted an advancing Cambodian military unit that was trespassing 50 meters into the Thai territory.

The two sides exchanged fire and the Cambodian troops eventually retreated.

After the gunfire, Thai soldiers seized a 60-mm grenade launcher, ten 60-mm ammunition rounds, an RPG-2 grenade launcher, four rocket-propelled grenades and 100 rounds of M-80 machine gun ammunition.

-- Tan Network 2011-04-26

[metisdead]

Another baiting/bickering session has been removed. You know who you are, consider yourselves warned not enter into anymore of these sessions. Posters are reminded to stay on topic and to refrain from comments concerning the character of other posters. If you object to another member's postings, use the report button.

[elcent]

"In any country where the army seeks a prominent role in politics, it needs a security dispute to command attention and influence," says John Ciorciari, an assistant professor at University of Michigan's Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy. The Thai military is strongly wedded to the border dispute with Cambodia because their most loyal supporters, the "Yellow Shirt" activists, used the issue as a rallying cry to bring down prime minister Samak Sundaravej, a successor and ally of Thaksin, in 2008, alleging his stance against Cambodia was timid. "Now Abhisit is in the position of having to placate this constituency," says Ciorciari.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2067585,00.html#ixzz1KdurZg5E

There's some meat in it ....

[yoshiwara]

For sure the fighting will be taking the some of the shine off the Thaksin 'Dracula Returns' political manifesto. So irritating!

[elcent]

Wednesday, April 27, 2011

A temple tests ASEAN

The relationship between Thailand and Cambodia continues to deteriorate. The two countries' militaries have been trading blows since February, when a dispute over a temple erupted in armed clashes. A cease fire maintained the peace for a couple of months, but it collapsed last week. The trigger is a disputed border, but the real cause is long-standing enmity that politicians on both sides are exploiting for domestic purposes. The crisis is a test not only of the political maturity of the two countries' leadership, but of the meaning and relevance of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), which is forced to stand idly by as two of its members make a mockery of the group's commitment to peaceful resolution of disputes.

A good one from Japanese Times .... http://search.japantimes.co.jp/rss/ed20110427a1.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=DTN+Japan%3A&utm_content=Twitter

[jdinasia]

Wednesday, April 27, 2011

A temple tests ASEAN

The relationship between Thailand and Cambodia continues to deteriorate. The two countries' militaries have been trading blows since February, when a dispute over a temple erupted in armed clashes. A cease fire maintained the peace for a couple of months, but it collapsed last week. The trigger is a disputed border, but the real cause is long-standing enmity that politicians on both sides are exploiting for domestic purposes. The crisis is a test not only of the political maturity of the two countries' leadership, but of the meaning and relevance of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), which is forced to stand idly by as two of its members make a mockery of the group's commitment to peaceful resolution of disputes.

A good one from Japanese Times .... http://search.japant...content=Twitter

Thanks for that! A good read that seems to be actually unbiased!

[Scott]

One post removed with information about troop deployment.

Please don't give specifics about location and movement of troops.

[fatfather]

(From the topic "Thailand pulls out of planned ceasefire talks with Cambodia - Thailand Forum)

"We decided last night to cancel General Prawit's trip to Phnom Penh today after some Cambodia media reported Thailand agreed to ceasefire talks after it admitted defeat and losses," said army spokesman Colonel Sunsern Kaewkumnerd.

Cambodia try to give positive credits to the young general, son of Hun Sen and the Thais interpret it as lost face.... Before the Thais pulled out of the ceasefire talks the locals here had really big hope for an ending of the shell fire. Yesterday afternoon we got a warning that the fighting will go on close to Cap Chong and in our area. This time even the "village gard" left to a safer ground and tonight there had been hits close to our village (~2km south) in tamboon Jantobped and directly at the border between Surin and Buri Rum. Warnings came in today that further fighting will take place in the afternoon, no end in sight. Till up now it is not a really military confrontation, no side try to destroy the others positions or arms, they are just bombing the farm land and unfortunately hit civilian tagets by dispersed shell fire. What is that for? I'm sick of this political chain rattling. I hope that the Thais learn about their politicans/leaders who will never stop craving power. I hope they see that people in power not have one milligramm of responsibility for their folks. Very sad....

fatfather

[barrybankruad]

(From the topic "Thailand pulls out of planned ceasefire talks with Cambodia - Thailand Forum)

"We decided last night to cancel General Prawit's trip to Phnom Penh today after some Cambodia media reported Thailand agreed to ceasefire talks after it admitted defeat and losses," said army spokesman Colonel Sunsern Kaewkumnerd.

Cambodia try to give positive credits to the young general, son of Hun Sen and the Thais interpret it as lost face.... Before the Thais pulled out of the ceasefire talks the locals here had really big hope for an ending of the shell fire. Yesterday afternoon we got a warning that the fighting will go on close to Cap Chong and in our area. This time even the "village gard" left to a safer ground and tonight there had been hits close to our village (~2km south) in tamboon Jantobped and directly at the border between Surin and Buri Rum. Warnings came in today that further fighting will take place in the afternoon, no end in sight. Till up now it is not a really military confrontation, no side try to destroy the others positions or arms, they are just bombing the farm land and unfortunately hit civilian tagets by dispersed shell fire. What is that for? I'm sick of this political chain rattling. I hope that the Thais learn about their politicans/leaders who will never stop craving power. I hope they see that people in power not have one milligramm of responsibility for their folks. Very sad....

fatfather

Quite agree fatfather. The politicians don't seem to give a dam_n about the locals, many of whom are ethnic Khmer. Dispalced, how are they going to feed their livestock, poultry,pets or tend to their fields. The locals around here here don't want all this crap, they have been living mainly harmoniously with their Cambodian neighbours for decades. Perhaps it may be because this part of the world is a 'red shirt' stronghold.

[barrybankruad]

(From the topic "Thailand pulls out of planned ceasefire talks with Cambodia - Thailand Forum)

"We decided last night to cancel General Prawit's trip to Phnom Penh today after some Cambodia media reported Thailand agreed to ceasefire talks after it admitted defeat and losses," said army spokesman Colonel Sunsern Kaewkumnerd.

Cambodia try to give positive credits to the young general, son of Hun Sen and the Thais interpret it as lost face.... Before the Thais pulled out of the ceasefire talks the locals here had really big hope for an ending of the shell fire. Yesterday afternoon we got a warning that the fighting will go on close to Cap Chong and in our area. This time even the "village gard" left to a safer ground and tonight there had been hits close to our village (~2km south) in tamboon Jantobped and directly at the border between Surin and Buri Rum. Warnings came in today that further fighting will take place in the afternoon, no end in sight. Till up now it is not a really military confrontation, no side try to destroy the others positions or arms, they are just bombing the farm land and unfortunately hit civilian tagets by dispersed shell fire. What is that for? I'm sick of this political chain rattling. I hope that the Thais learn about their politicans/leaders who will never stop craving power. I hope they see that people in power not have one milligramm of responsibility for their folks. Very sad....

fatfather

Quite agree fatfather. The politicians don't seem to give a dam_n about the locals, many of whom are ethnic Khmer. Dispalced, how are they going to feed their livestock, poultry,pets or tend to their fields. The locals around here here don't want all this crap, they have been living mainly harmoniously with their Cambodian neighbours for decades. Perhaps it may be because this part of the world is a 'red shirt' stronghold.

Started again at about 11am. Only a brief exchange this time it appears. Difficult to tell sometimes, a lot of dark thunder clouds with some thunder about.

[jdinasia]

(From the topic "Thailand pulls out of planned ceasefire talks with Cambodia - Thailand Forum)

"We decided last night to cancel General Prawit's trip to Phnom Penh today after some Cambodia media reported Thailand agreed to ceasefire talks after it admitted defeat and losses," said army spokesman Colonel Sunsern Kaewkumnerd.

Cambodia try to give positive credits to the young general, son of Hun Sen and the Thais interpret it as lost face.... Before the Thais pulled out of the ceasefire talks the locals here had really big hope for an ending of the shell fire. Yesterday afternoon we got a warning that the fighting will go on close to Cap Chong and in our area. This time even the "village gard" left to a safer ground and tonight there had been hits close to our village (~2km south) in tamboon Jantobped and directly at the border between Surin and Buri Rum. Warnings came in today that further fighting will take place in the afternoon, no end in sight. Till up now it is not a really military confrontation, no side try to destroy the others positions or arms, they are just bombing the farm land and unfortunately hit civilian tagets by dispersed shell fire. What is that for? I'm sick of this political chain rattling. I hope that the Thais learn about their politicans/leaders who will never stop craving power. I hope they see that people in power not have one milligramm of responsibility for their folks. Very sad....

fatfather

I truly hope that things improve along the border and for you and your neighbors, I think BOTH countries need to stop the saber rattling and most particularly stop playing things up to the media to try and make the other side look bad. There is too much nationalism and "pride" on both sides of the border for someone to appear to back down in the face of media statements like the one you quoted above.

[Thaddeus]

Started again at about 11am. Only a brief exchange this time it appears. Difficult to tell sometimes, a lot of dark thunder clouds with some thunder about.

I think that may have been just thunder Baz, it was very distant and difficult to differentiate.

[barrybankruad]

Started again at about 11am. Only a brief exchange this time it appears. Difficult to tell sometimes, a lot of dark thunder clouds with some thunder about.

I think that may have been just thunder Baz, it was very distant and difficult to differentiate.

Note that most of TV posters are no longer concerned with what could be one of the most important conflicts in modern Thai history. It would seem that most members are more concerned as to whether some Thai birds are showing their tits as to whether Thai civilians are being killed.

[Scott]

I think you will find that quite a few people are very interested in this conflict. There are now a number of threads running on the situation and they are attracting a fair amount of attention.

Many posters, myself included, very much appreciate the updates and posts made by people in the area.