Water Tank On Roof

[kerryk]

I am getting a bathroom ready for me. I need more water pressure so I will be putting one of those big tanks on the roof or on a tower and buying a pump and plumbing it into the existing plumbing. The current water pressure is not enough to run a bum gun. How much roughly should I plan on spending to buy the tank and pump and plumbing? 5000 baht or 10,000 baht range? Any ideas? Thanks.

[kamalabob2]

Water does not flow uphill so if you install a tank up on the roof you need to spend money on electricity to pump the water. The laws of physics which other Thai Visa Forum members know way better than me dictate what PSI you will achieve depending on how high your tank is installed. But in Isaan you might consider going to an INDEPENDENT pump / tank / tool shop that design, sell, install and service village water supplies and larger municipal and school buildings. These Independent shops are often, if not always less money than any chain modern trade store for the exact same products. Just as important, often owned by Chinese-Thai who do understand, read, write and speak English. Even in Buriram Province a Thai technician, not some fancy pants Bangkok educated grad, but a Buriram College educated staff person, came to our home 45 minutes from Buriram and roughly drew out a water plan. Then we sat down with our builder and the "pump shop" owner to see the options. They quickly made me realize why the water tanks on the flat roof area we constructed over a high carport was not the best solution. The "water pressure tank" that has a bladder of sorts and in our case, holds 500 liters of water, is what achieves excellent water pressure even on the 2nd floor without the waster pump being activated very often.

I feel we save significantly on the electric bill, we have less noise, certainly less wear and tear on the Hitachi Inverter water pump, due to spending less than 4,000 baht on a pressure tank. Steel seems to work for us, but if you had well water you might consider a stainless steel pressure tank. I sure do not want workers going up onto our roof for any unnecessary reason as they can harm the roof tiles and cause leaks. I had enough roof leaks without the "help" of water tank workers. A local independent pump shop owner who gives you his mobile phone number is more likely to send staff out to adjust your water supply / pumps at no cost for a period and not give you the chain store run around and/or excessive fees for customer service.

We have proper PSI so that 3 point electric Hot water heaters work in 2nd floor bathrooms, not to mention personal sprayers.

[JoePai]

Water does not flow uphill so if you install a tank up on the roof you need to spend money on electricity to pump the water. The laws of physics which other Thai Visa Forum members know way better than me dictate what PSI you will achieve depending on how high your tank is installed. But in Isaan you might consider going to an INDEPENDENT pump / tank / tool shop that design, sell, install and service village water supplies and larger municipal and school buildings. These Independent shops are often, if not always less money than any chain modern trade store for the exact same products. Just as important, often owned by Chinese-Thai who do understand, read, write and speak English. Even in Buriram Province a Thai technician, not some fancy pants Bangkok educated grad, but a Buriram College educated staff person, came to our home 45 minutes from Buriram and roughly drew out a water plan. Then we sat down with our builder and the "pump shop" owner to see the options. They quickly made me realize why the water tanks on the flat roof area we constructed over a high carport was not the best solution. The "water pressure tank" that has a bladder of sorts and in our case, holds 500 liters of water, is what achieves excellent water pressure even on the 2nd floor without the waster pump being activated very often.

I feel we save significantly on the electric bill, we have less noise, certainly less wear and tear on the Hitachi Inverter water pump, due to spending less than 4,000 baht on a pressure tank. Steel seems to work for us, but if you had well water you might consider a stainless steel pressure tank. I sure do not want workers going up onto our roof for any unnecessary reason as they can harm the roof tiles and cause leaks. I had enough roof leaks without the "help" of water tank workers. A local independent pump shop owner who gives you his mobile phone number is more likely to send staff out to adjust your water supply / pumps at no cost for a period and not give you the chain store run around and/or excessive fees for customer service.

We have proper PSI so that 3 point electric Hot water heaters work in 2nd floor bathrooms, not to mention personal sprayers.

This sounds very interesting : "water pressure tank" that has a bladder of sorts and in our case, holds 500 liters of water This sounds interesting - can you give more details as I have not seen one please ?

[rizla]

Water does not flow uphill so if you install a tank up on the roof you need to spend money on electricity to pump the water. The laws of physics which other Thai Visa Forum members know way better than me dictate what PSI you will achieve depending on how high your tank is installed. But in Isaan you might consider going to an INDEPENDENT pump / tank / tool shop that design, sell, install and service village water supplies and larger municipal and school buildings. These Independent shops are often, if not always less money than any chain modern trade store for the exact same products. Just as important, often owned by Chinese-Thai who do understand, read, write and speak English. Even in Buriram Province a Thai technician, not some fancy pants Bangkok educated grad, but a Buriram College educated staff person, came to our home 45 minutes from Buriram and roughly drew out a water plan. Then we sat down with our builder and the "pump shop" owner to see the options. They quickly made me realize why the water tanks on the flat roof area we constructed over a high carport was not the best solution. The "water pressure tank" that has a bladder of sorts and in our case, holds 500 liters of water, is what achieves excellent water pressure even on the 2nd floor without the waster pump being activated very often.

I feel we save significantly on the electric bill, we have less noise, certainly less wear and tear on the Hitachi Inverter water pump, due to spending less than 4,000 baht on a pressure tank. Steel seems to work for us, but if you had well water you might consider a stainless steel pressure tank. I sure do not want workers going up onto our roof for any unnecessary reason as they can harm the roof tiles and cause leaks. I had enough roof leaks without the "help" of water tank workers. A local independent pump shop owner who gives you his mobile phone number is more likely to send staff out to adjust your water supply / pumps at no cost for a period and not give you the chain store run around and/or excessive fees for customer service.

We have proper PSI so that 3 point electric Hot water heaters work in 2nd floor bathrooms, not to mention personal sprayers.

This sounds very interesting : "water pressure tank" that has a bladder of sorts and in our case, holds 500 liters of water This sounds interesting - can you give more details as I have not seen one please ?

Used to run one in the UK in my bungalow, a sealed pressurised hot water tank, has an air bladder which allowed the hot water to expand in the tank and no need for a separate expansion header tank, and the good thing was that you got hot water pressure at the same pressure as the cold mains water, filled the bath very fast and great for showers as no electric shower needed...worth a look.........

[onionluke]

I would like to have a water tank/tower . At the moment we have an automatic pump and well . This is fairly noisy . The happy neighbours we have keep on threatening us with violence , theft , death whenever we wash the dishes because it is so noisy . I got the missus to build a dog house around it for insulation which has worked but I would still like a water tank/tower . I was in Ubon/ Warin at the end of march in the warehouse shop across from the captain construction place .

Stainless water tanks aproximatley priced due to leaky memory

500 L 6000 bh

800 L 7500 bh

1000 L 9000 bh

1200 L 11500 bh

I asked how much to deliver, build a tower and plumb it in . They got back to us saying they would come down to Det Udom for a fee and then give us a price . Esimated around 25000-30000 for a six meter tower .

I didn't really have the time to wait for them so we didn't purchase anything .

I will follow your advise Kamalabob2 and go to the local , Det Udom pump suppliers .

Any tips from people in the know would be mighty helpful .

Luke

[kamalabob2]

The brand, commonly available in Thailand, of the metal 500 liter pressure tank which is grey in the photo I previously posted, is S.W.K. It was less than 4000 baht three years ago. If you have well water you might want to consider a stainless steel pressure tank as in these photos from a recently built home in Korat Province, but a stainless pressure tank does cost more money than a steel pressure tank. There just is no sense to have an electric pump run every time you turn on a sink faucet when in Thailand a pressure tank is easily bought and installed. A good pump shop will send staff to your home at no charge and give you written options on how to solve water issues.

[onionluke]

Very impressive looking system there . Not what I had in mind at all . I was looking at the large cylindrical container on a tower with gravity at work sort a thing .

Does it continue to work if the electric is out ? We loose the supply on a regular basis . I was also thinking that if there was any long disruption to the electric supply I could still pump water up by hand to a tower to be stored .

Thanks for the ideas !

Luke

[kerryk]

Thank you very much for the information. The reason I wanted one on the roof is if the electric goes off you still have water until the tank runs out.

Would that be the same with a pressure system? I have no experience with a pressure system as my last one was a roof mount. And, how much do the pumps cost roughly?

[chuckd]

I'll weigh in with our experiences.

We have spent the following amounts on the water system. We are on village well water and it is not the least bit reliable, often being turned off for days at a time.

1. We have three tanks:

Stainless steel, 1,250 liters - 10,500 baht

Stainless steel, 2,000 liters - 15.900 baht

PVC - 3,000 liters - 9,300 baht

2. The PVC tank is on top of a 6 meter tower that cost us 35,000 baht including labor.

3. We have an electric pump from the two steel tanks to generate pressure to the house - 5,500 baht.

It seems to me you have a simple solution to your pressure problem. Why not simply install an electric pump from your current holding tank to the house?

You don't need to spend money elevating the tank for pressure. A tower is expensive and the roof might not be built to support the additional weight of a filled water tank.

If you need more storage capability, buy a PVC tank, get a Mitsubishi electric water pump and plumb it into the house.

One days work and pay a plumber 500 baht for his time.

OK, I just saw your last post about the electricity failures. We have them frequently in this village and they are seldom out over 1-3 hours. Usually less time than that. We have water shortages all the time, thus the reason for all the storage. In addition we spent over 50,000 baht last month drilling two water wells. It gets expensive but I wouldn't worry about the electricity failures as being a long term problem.

[kerryk]

I'll weigh in with our experiences.

We have spent the following amounts on the water system. We are on village well water and it is not the least bit reliable, often being turned off for days at a time.

1. We have three tanks:

Stainless steel, 1,250 liters - 10,500 baht

Stainless steel, 2,000 liters - 15.900 baht

PVC - 3,000 liters - 9,300 baht

2. The PVC tank is on top of a 6 meter tower that cost us 35,000 baht including labor.

3. We have an electric pump from the two steel tanks to generate pressure to the house - 5,500 baht.

It seems to me you have a simple solution to your pressure problem. Why not simply install an electric pump from your current holding tank to the house?

You don't need to spend money elevating the tank for pressure. A tower is expensive and the roof might not be built to support the additional weight of a filled water tank.

If you need more storage capability, buy a PVC tank, get a Mitsubishi electric water pump and plumb it into the house.

One days work and pay a plumber 500 baht for his time.

OK, I just saw your last post about the electricity failures. We have them frequently in this village and they are seldom out over 1-3 hours. Usually less time than that. We have water shortages all the time, thus the reason for all the storage. In addition we spent over 50,000 baht last month drilling two water wells. It gets expensive but I wouldn't worry about the electricity failures as being a long term problem.

OK that makes sense. How much for the Mitsubishi electric water pump?

[chuckd]

I'll weigh in with our experiences.

We have spent the following amounts on the water system. We are on village well water and it is not the least bit reliable, often being turned off for days at a time.

1. We have three tanks:

Stainless steel, 1,250 liters - 10,500 baht

Stainless steel, 2,000 liters - 15.900 baht

PVC - 3,000 liters - 9,300 baht

2. The PVC tank is on top of a 6 meter tower that cost us 35,000 baht including labor.

3. We have an electric pump from the two steel tanks to generate pressure to the house - 5,500 baht.

It seems to me you have a simple solution to your pressure problem. Why not simply install an electric pump from your current holding tank to the house?

You don't need to spend money elevating the tank for pressure. A tower is expensive and the roof might not be built to support the additional weight of a filled water tank.

If you need more storage capability, buy a PVC tank, get a Mitsubishi electric water pump and plumb it into the house.

One days work and pay a plumber 500 baht for his time.

OK, I just saw your last post about the electricity failures. We have them frequently in this village and they are seldom out over 1-3 hours. Usually less time than that. We have water shortages all the time, thus the reason for all the storage. In addition we spent over 50,000 baht last month drilling two water wells. It gets expensive but I wouldn't worry about the electricity failures as being a long term problem.

OK that makes sense. How much for the Mitsubishi electric water pump?

Item number 3 on my previous post. As we recall it cost 5,500 baht. Lotus has them but we got this one from a local hardware store.

[kamalabob2]

When the PEA electricity goes out, we still have water pressure in our home even on the 2nd floor due to a pressure tank. We have never used more than the 500 or so liters inside our pressure tank during a power outage. However no electric power means no hot showers and not much lighting. There are MANY different models, series and lines of any major brand pump, just like many series of a/c units. The brochures have enough English and both Hitachi and Mitsubishi have staff who will answer any of your questions via e-mail. Take the length of the warranty into consideration and who will provide "after the sales" at your home service. The quality of the glue or fittings they use make a big difference in my experience. There are genuine differences in water pumps, Tesco or Makro might not have the series that best suits your needs, and good luck with returns and repairs at those two stores. A water pump is not like buying a DVD player where you can easily bring it back to the store or service center. The after the sale service for adjustments and repairs in my experience plays a key role in your overall satisfaction of any building process in Thailand.

[Naam]

kamalabob2; The "water pressure tank" that has a bladder of sorts and in our case, holds 500 liters of water, is what achieves excellent water pressure even on the 2nd floor without the waster pump being activated very often.

I feel we save significantly on the electric bill...

that's an incorrect assumption as the pump will use even slightly more electricity to "charge" the pressure tank with x-quantity of water as it would use delivering the same quantity directly to the house. pump starting times are of course considerably reduced but total added up running is slightly longer. i agree that using a pump without an additional pressure tank is technical nonsense.

by the way, superfluous and wasted money is to use an inverter pump to charge a pressure tank as the advantages of the variable pump speed are not used, especially not with a big 500l tank.

i apologise for being such a spoilsport :jap:

[kamalabob2]

I bought the Hitachi inverter pump pump prior to being aware of the existence of a pressure tank. The inverter pump was more money, certainly not the first or last place I spent too much on the house (or in Thailand). It does have a good guarantee, but frankly our mid range Mitsubishi pump has served us well. The pump goes on maybe twice a day for a BRIEF period, since we have a pressure tank. For the initial three days we did not have a pressure tank the water pump went on every single time we turned on a water tap with the noise to match. The pump shop owner initially suggested we have a pressure tank, but he did not insist we buy a pressure tank. Smart shop owner, not his first rodeo, he guessed we would be back to buy the pressure tank so the pipes were laid out the first time to accept a pressure tank. We had water pumps in our rental house and even a Mitsubishi water pump to bill a 2000 liter tank for the construction workers who lived on site. A supply of water was crucial for them to bath and to mix concrete. The concrete mixer could be spun by hand when the power went out, but a supply of municipal water would not run into the "temporary" tank without a pump due to low pressure and great distance. Building our home we tried to keep at least 1000 liters of water stored for power or water outages. I tell my friends in America to never take clean municipal water or PSI for granted.

Naam you have an impressive home with excellent reflective window glass as I recall. How do you clean, store and pump water for that home?

[kerryk]

To make sure I understand. I need 2 tanks and one pump? Or is one pump and one tank OK? The village has a couple of water towers that are filled from a reservoir. I am not very concerned about the cost of the electricity within reason. Thanks for bearing with me.

[Naam]

Naam you have an impressive home with excellent reflective window glass as I recall. How do you clean, store and pump water for that home?

we have two ground tanks each 4,000 liters and a choice of using city water as well as water from our own borewell. initially we used well water but the manual pretreatment (before charcoal filter and resin softener) to bring up the pH (water is very acidic, pH ~5.5) was to bothersome and not very efficient. so we changed to city water which has an acceptable pH and add manually chlorine to arrive at approximately 0.75-1.00 ppm. our indicator when to add Cl is Mrs Naam when she claims "there is no more chlorine smell to detect"

each tank is connected to a Mitsubishi 400 Watt pump which pumps from the tank to a conventional filter and softener section with attached 80l pressure tank. the settings of the pumps are slightly different and the second pump kicks in only when the demand is high. actually having a second pump was initially meant as a back-up because we all know that gadgets break down late friday evenings when you can't get a handyman and/or the shops are closed when you need a spare part

to compensate for the once in a while happening brown-outs or completely missing of one of the three phases the pumps are connected to different phases. on top of that i installed a battery pack (2 x 160ah) with an inverter (output 1.2kW) which drives the pumps in the rare event that both required phases are down as it is not very convenient to get water from the pool with a bucket to flush a toilet after a dump

p.s. pump noise which could annoy neighbours does not exist as water pumps, irrigation pump and pool pump are located enclosed in a small pumphouse/techroom.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Naam

[Naam]

forgot to add pictures

[chuckd]

To make sure I understand. I need 2 tanks and one pump? Or is one pump and one tank OK? The village has a couple of water towers that are filled from a reservoir. I am not very concerned about the cost of the electricity within reason. Thanks for bearing with me.

Why do you need two tanks? We started off with one tank connected to the local water supply and installed a pump to move the water from that tank to the house. Talk to your local hardware/plumber and he can set it up. Have the city water supply come directly into the tank and the pump will move it to the house from the tank.

We added a second and third tank when the water supply turned out to be too inadequate to keep the first tank refilled after usage. We have since added the water wells to supplement the entire situation.

[citizen33]

As somebody said above, the usual set-up in Isaan is a diaphragm pump (such as Big C or Lotus sell for about 8K) pulling water from a holding tank in the back yard - mine is stainless steel. This will drive a shower upstairs. I tried a variation on this system by also installing a plastic tank in the attic, which is filled by the same pump. My thinking was that in the event of a power failure I would still have water at the taps. This is partially true but the system does not work as well as I'd hoped. Problem number one is that (with pump off) there still isn't enough water pressure from the high tank to have a good shower in the upstairs bathroom (the height of my tank is about 18 feet above ground and it needs to be higher to achieve good pressure). The second problem is that after a while I had problems with overflow of water from the top tank - only a trickle and via the overflow pipe outside luckily. I think this is because some of the one-way valves in the system leak slightly and allow the pump to over-fill the attic tank. I have stopcocks in the supply pipes and just isolate the upstairs tank for most of the time. It can be opened in a situation where the mains water supply fails (which sometimes happens in Isaan villages), but otherwise was a bit of a waste of money.

The pressurised tank systems illustrated in the posts above are much better than my system, but also a lot more expensive. My upstairs tank only added about 5K baht to the cost.

Edited April 27, 2011 by citizen33

[KunMatt]

I'm a bit late on this one and I probably should've asked you experienced guys before our installation but we have;

1. Bore well approx 10m deep

2. 600W pump from well into a 1250l stainless steel storage tank

3. 250W automatic pump from tank to house.

4. That's it. And it's all on ground level.

I haven't tested the pH of our water yet and use no softeners, filters or cleaners, should I??.

For hot water I have 4500W electric showers in each bathroom which is even used to run a small bath for the baby twice a day.

Like someone said, whenever you turn on a tap the 250W pump activates but it is far from our neighbours.

Any advice on how could this system be improved and made more efficient would be appreciated.

TIA.

[tig28]

Any advice on how could this system be improved and made more efficient would be appreciated.

TIA.

Hi Matt

I am afraid I bear what may well be bad news. Most (all?) Thai s/s tanks have a sticker on them stating that they are unsuitable for well (ground) water.

Here is an approx translation of sticky label found on my stainless tank.

1. Use only for fresh water. Do not use for well water, salt water, ground water or part salt (brackish) water.

2. Do not leave the tank empty such that wind can damage tank

3. Place tank on flat surface strong enough to carry weight of full tank

4. Do not make new holes in the tank, use only holes provided. Use only PVC or stainless steel pipe to connect tank.

5. Empty tank before moving

6. Check tank for cleaning 3 times / year.

Failure to follow these instructions may invalidate warranty.

Attached is a photo of the tank after only one year. It was replaced with a "sandstone" polly type tank.

[tig28]

I haven't tested the pH of our water yet and use no softeners, filters or cleaners, should I??.

Hi again Matt

I think you house shall quickly tell you if you need filters/softeners etc. Ours certainly did so! Hard water --- reluctant to "suds up"-- corrosion on tap fittings and grey whites in the washing. Maybe also an unattractive smell.

As you have already installed -- probably best to wait a bit to see if the water quality where you live is "good enough".

[SantiSuk]

'Do not use for well water'. 'Check tank for cleaning 3 times a year'.

I have a stainless steel tank on my water tower, holding well water. It looks like many other households do these days. I wonder if we should all be suing our builders.

What should I be looking for if I'm to check it for cleaning and how should it be cleaned?

[tig28]

'Do not use for well water'. 'Check tank for cleaning 3 times a year'.

I have a stainless steel tank on my water tower, holding well water. It looks like many other households do these days. I wonder if we should all be suing our builders.

What should I be looking for if I'm to check it for cleaning and how should it be cleaned?

Hi SaniSuk

Don't waste your time asking me--- I simply translated a label on my tank and posted a pic of the leakage and corrosion that occurred.

That tank was replaced by the manufacturer (with a non-stainless steel version) as it had been recommended and installed by their agent & was therefore his error. I didn't need to sue them.

If your tank has a similar label ......... .........

[KunMatt]

Hi

Thanks for the replies. We specifically asked for a water tank for well water storage and the guy at HomeHub suggested the Diamond DMB stainless steel tank.

I don't think our label mentions well water, just salty water.

Our neighbours have the same tank too.

Ill have to see what happens.

[KunMatt]

I haven't tested the pH of our water yet and use no softeners, filters or cleaners, should I??.

Hi again Matt

I think you house shall quickly tell you if you need filters/softeners etc. Ours certainly did so! Hard water --- reluctant to "suds up"-- corrosion on tap fittings and grey whites in the washing. Maybe also an unattractive smell.

As you have already installed -- probably best to wait a bit to see if the water quality where you live is "good enough".

Hello again

Actually what I was worried about was water borne diseases in the well water. We don't drink the water but we use it for showers and bathing our baby twice a day.

There was a slight smell of H2S in the water when the well was first drilled, but we just pumped it for a few days until it the water was clear of sand and the smell was eventually gone during this process too. The only reason Im worried is because the well isn't very deep, I think the water level is at about 7 or 8 metres and our well pipe goes down to 9m.

I think I will start adding chlorine to our tank from now on. Given the alternative of using brownish government water which comes from a river, our well should be cleaner!

Edited June 21, 2012 by KunMatt

[tig28]

Actually what I was worried about was water borne diseases in the well water. We don't drink the water but we use it for showers and bathing our baby twice a day.

Hi Matt

A reasonable concern -- one I also have. 3 years ago I had the water tested at the public health dept. at the University in Ubon -- who at that time declared the water safe.

The village in which I live is serviced by septic systems -- and whilst there was no problem evident at the time I had the water tested --- who knows what is happening underground today? We don't drink it -- but it is used for all the other domestic purposes.

So far so good!!