Fast Eddie Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 so, who wants peace and who doesn't? I think it's clear. Maybe it's not us Muslims that have to clean up our act after all..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <deleted>? Get real will you. It is extremists acting in the name of Islam that are blowing up innocents worldwide. Everyone else wants peace, but no amount of virtual handshakes are going to make any difference. This cancer that is existant in Muslim communities worldwide is spreading, and these communities have to take responsibility for cutting it out. I can't believe after all the discussion you have been involved in on this forum that you would still turn around and offer such a blanket denial of any responsibility or need for action from within your community. Absolutely not - that would be as stupid as a post from someone on one of the other threads suggesting the silence from the Muslim community in condemning terrorists means that we all support it..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Of course it doesn't mean you all support it, but you have to be extremely vocal in condemning it, in order to get the message through to others that this will not be tolerated, because some of you do support it. Cant you see that? Is it any wonder, when confronted with silence, that some people start to suspect that the Muslim community for some reason does not want to be as cooperative as they could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripperj Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 so, who wants peace and who doesn't? I think it's clear. Maybe it's not us Muslims that have to clean up our act after all..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <deleted>? Get real will you. It is extremists acting in the name of Islam that are blowing up innocents worldwide. Everyone else wants peace, but no amount of virtual handshakes are going to make any difference. This cancer that is existant in Muslim communities worldwide is spreading, and these communities have to take responsibility for cutting it out. I can't believe after all the discussion you have been involved in on this forum that you would still turn around and offer such a blanket denial of any responsibility or need for action from within your community. Absolutely not - that would be as stupid as a post from someone on one of the other threads suggesting the silence from the Muslim community in condemning terrorists means that we all support it..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Of course it doesn't mean you all support it, but you have to be extremely vocal in condemning it, in order to get the message through to others that this will not be tolerated, because some of you do support it. Cant you see that? Is it any wonder, when confronted with silence, that some people start to suspect that the Muslim community for some reason does not want to be as cooperative as they could be. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As an Irish person from ulster, i don't feel the need to be very vocal in condemnation of the IRA. Do i condem them for killing thousands of people, yes. Do i condem the british security forces for killing people, yes. Do i condem Islamic terrorist, yes. Do i condem the murder of any inocent/guitly people, yes. Do i walk about all day saying i do, NO. I get on with my life. Does this make me a supporter of terrorism, No. So why should the average musslim have to do the same?? If you go out and kill people or give money, shelter or suport to people who do then you are a supporter. How many Germans out there tell everone they meet or chat to online that they totaly disagree with what the Nazi's did in WW2? not too many me trhinks does this mean they are all closet Nazi's? I don't think so. Any way rate over Peace and love to every one Tj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Mee Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Mouse Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 How do you exterminate a concept and belief? The people are just carriers of this belief. Killing them is only speeding up the process (they might have just done it themselves anyway).It's the hate that needs to be cured They are more than just "carriers" of the belief. If they only carried the belief, we wouldn't have to bury all of the innocent victims who have been needlessly slaughtered as a direct result of their actions. Yes, it would be lovely if we could cure their hatred. So how do you propose to do that? Certainly not with a handshake. If that was possible, we would only need to offer and the friendship handshake to every person we pass on the street who carries a back pack. Why didn't somebody think of that in Bali this week. Jihad is the world's foremost source of terrorism. Their movement is rapidly spreading to all corners of the world, and they won't stop until Muslims dominate the entire globe. There is no room for any other religious beliefs in their ideal world. They brainwash their own children and fill them, and as many others as possible, with hate. Over many years this hatred will continue to spread until one day their goals will be achieved. Do you put these brainwashers in jail? Do you sit down over a cup of tea and plead with them to be friendly? Do you introduce them to Christianity? Extermination is my impossible dream. It can't be done and given time I believe that they will get their way. Maybe not in my lifetime but I can't see their evil advancement being stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awarrumbungle Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 What is peace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Mouse Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 What is peace? In the context of this thread, peace is the exact opposite to holy war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 peace is the feeling you have for 10 seconds after waking up in the morning before you remember what is going on in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaz Posted October 5, 2005 Author Share Posted October 5, 2005 Extermination is my impossible dream. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If this is your dream you are most certainly a very disturbed individual. Are you getting any councelling? And stay away from this thread please there is nothing peaceful about what you've posted just more hatred and stirring. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaz Posted October 5, 2005 Author Share Posted October 5, 2005 What is peace? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In the context of this thread, peace is the exact opposite to holy war. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mighty Mouth, do us a favour and go eat some cheese. Peace, in the context of this thread, is no more hate spreading, no more violence, no more killing, living together and understanding each other and just letting people get on with their lives how they want to. I could think of another 100 situations that give me peace but they'd be out of the context of this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 after you kicked out of this thread everyone you don't like, you'll stay nearly alone here and you might have learned for your life how it does NOT work with peace...... you could simulate here on how it does work in the real world! --We have to fight against everyone who does not like OUR peace-- Extermination is my impossible dream. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If this is your dream you are most certainly a very disturbed individual. Are you getting any councelling? And stay away from this thread please there is nothing peaceful about what you've posted just more hatred and stirring. Thanks. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaz Posted October 5, 2005 Author Share Posted October 5, 2005 after you kicked out of this thread everyone you don't like, you'll stay nearly alone here and you might have learned for your life how it does NOT work with peace......you could simulate here on how it does work in the real world! --We have to fight against everyone who does not like OUR peace-- That's not true - please read the OP. In any case was there any sincerity in MM's post? Does the bold statement "Extermination is my impossible dream" differ much from the terrorists dream? I think not. Does it belong here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Mouse Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 What is peace? In the context of this thread, peace is the exact opposite to holy war. Mighty Mouth, do us a favour and go eat some cheese. Peace, in the context of this thread, is no more hate spreading, no more violence, no more killing, living together and understanding each other and just letting people get on with their lives how they want to. I could think of another 100 situations that give me peace but they'd be out of the context of this discussion. When a pit bull terrior attacks small children or rips the ears off its owner, (this happened in Australia today) they put it down, kill it, take its life. These barbaric terrorists kill, maim and destroy human beings. They are no better than pit bull terriors, both are born and bred to kill. These are the animals that you want to kiss and cuddle in the name of peace. Wake up to yourself. The dribble that you are writing comes straight out of the hippie movement from the 70's. Peace brother, love ins and pass the pot. Your affections are mis-guided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaz Posted October 5, 2005 Author Share Posted October 5, 2005 I'm almost giving up in this, it's so fckin frustrating trying to explain over and over a again and yet some people STILL don't get it...........someone throw me a life line please......or mods just close the thread because obviously it's all just bullsh1t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 so you call the americans terrorists. They bombed civilians, they droped chemical bombs over civilians. They killed thousands of civilians in Faludsha (not sure for the spelling), read some of the few news from there, the guideline for minimize own loss (drop a granade in every house before you enter), the streets full of dead bodies and the red cross was not allowed to enter the city. Is terrorism only terrorism if it is against americans and made from muslims? or is it also terrorism if made from americans against muslim? And keep in mind Iraq did not sponsor terrorists and it did not has weapons of mass destruction and it was made clear (from Mr. Blix), that there is no evidence of these weapons. + the attack was agains international law. What is peace? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In the context of this thread, peace is the exact opposite to holy war. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mighty Mouth, do us a favour and go eat some cheese. Peace, in the context of this thread, is no more hate spreading, no more violence, no more killing, living together and understanding each other and just letting people get on with their lives how they want to. I could think of another 100 situations that give me peace but they'd be out of the context of this discussion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> When a pit bull terrior attacks small children or rips the ears off its owner, (this happened in Australia today) they put it down, kill it, take its life. These barbaric terrorists kill, maim and destroy human beings. They are no better than pit bull terriors, both are born and bred to kill. These are the animals that you want to kiss and cuddle in the name of peace. Wake up to yourself. The dribble that you are writing comes straight out of the hippie movement from the 70's. Peace brother, love ins and pass the pot. Your affections are mis-guided. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog412 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 religions that permit dogmatism,in their very defintion, do not promote peace. they demand conformism. conformism without the ability to challenge. without the ability to speak freely and debate any and all subjects relegates us to a future of no change. without the ability to change, we are doomed to not only live as things are, but from evolving into things necessary for our coming existence. freedom of thought is and always has been our salvatoin. tks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadman Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I'm almost giving up in this, it's so fckin frustrating trying to explain over and over a again and yet some people STILL don't get it...........someone throw me a life line please......or mods just close the thread because obviously it's all just bullsh1t. Don't give up, mate. I'm with you 100% in that peace is the answer, but also with tripperj in not spending my entire life condemning violence etc. The way I do it (it's only me, I'm not saying anyone else should do it) is to live peacefully, not be at odds with anyone if I can possibly help it, and hope that I set an appropriate example to my children and anyone who is interested. I'll give my opinion if asked, and explain my actions if asked. I am not an appeaser to the violent, and I don't always turn the other cheek. I can't pretend to have answers to the problems, so I just do what I can in my own small way. In the same way as voters can, together, change governments, perhaps each of us doing our opwn little bits can make changes. I've seen sufficient violence to know that it isn't the answer, but I don't know what is. But I don't give up and I don't lose hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Peace = ban organized religion. (causes nothing but grief) Never happen, but in an ideal world maybe. There is too much my religion is better than your religion rubbish. What gives anyone the right to think any religion is any better than the next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog412 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Peace = ban organized religion. (causes nothing but grief) Never happen, but in an ideal world maybe. There is too much my religion is better than your religion rubbish. What gives anyone the right to think any religion is any better than the next? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog412 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Peace = ban organized religion. (causes nothing but grief) Never happen, but in an ideal world maybe. There is too much my religion is better than your religion rubbish. What gives anyone the right to think any religion is any better than the next? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> it's called science. a place where living beings actually believe something called mental effort actually pays off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Mouse Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Peace = ban organized religion. (causes nothing but grief) Never happen, but in an ideal world maybe. There is too much my religion is better than your religion rubbish. What gives anyone the right to think any religion is any better than the next? it's called science. a place where living beings actually believe something called mental effort actually pays off. Have a good read of this article and tell me how your "mental effort" will make a difference to this type of warped religious thinking. ********************************************************* The Australian Financial Review recently interviewed Jemaah Islamiyah leader Abu Bakar Bashir in his Jakarta prison cell in which he justified suicide bombings, saying that "the best way to die is as a shaheed [martyr]". Bashir, who is completing a 30 month sentence for conspiracy over the 2002 Bali bombings, said: "In battle . . . in places like London and in America . . . it is best to cause as many casualties as possible". He said: "Everywhere, infidels conspire to ruin Islam. There is no infidel who wouldn't destroy Islam if they were given even a small chance." Infidel countries "must be visited and spied upon. If we don't come to them, they will persecute Islam". It was impossible for them to stop fighting Islam because that was their destiny. There was no example "of Islam and infidels, the right and the wrong, living together in peace". Bashir said: "Islam must win and Westerners will be destroyed. But we don't have to make them enemies if they allow Islam to continue to grow so that in the end they will probably agree to be under Islam. If they refuse to be under Islam, it will be chaos. Full stop." The question facing suicide bombers was: "If I do this, will Islam benefit or lose?" To die in jihad, Bashir said, was noble. And a "martyrdom action" was even more important than the Haj, the pilgrimage to Mecca. Bashir said: "A martyr must have ikhlas [sincerity]. The parent who understands this concept must be thankful to Allah. This is the spirit of jihad that most scares the infidels. This is a moral force." He cited Charles de Gaulle's emphasis of the weight of moral force in combat. He said he admired Osama bin Laden and wanted to meet the man he described as "Allah's soldier". But he said he did not agree with bin Laden's concept of total war against infidels. "If this occurs in an Islamic country, the fitnah [discord] will be felt by Muslims. But to attack them in their country is fine. Muslims who don't hate America, sin." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamOne Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 what was that??? no religion talk..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awarrumbungle Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Britmaveric and Zaz- peace is inclusive and tolerant, if you start excluding people and banning their ideas your creating more problems than already existed. What gives you the right to think no religion is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 What gives you the right to think no religion is better? Tad thick are we?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awarrumbungle Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 There we go again, refusing to do anything other than name call. Is it not extremely arrogant to assume your belief is better than most of the worlds. By your belief I'm referring to your atheism. Fundamentalism is an extreme ideology. If every muslim was of the same extreme belief, the idea wouldnt be so extreme anymore, and us 'peaceful' people probably wouldn't be around talking about it. Surely tolerance, awareness and understanding is a worthier goal to stop all this hate nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 BTW I'm not athiest! I think its arrogant of anyone thinking their religion is better than anyone else's. Irrational/illogical and creates problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awarrumbungle Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 (edited) apologies about the atheism - jumping to conclusions. May ask what you believe then? I agree completely with your second statement. But I don't see how banning reliogions is going to make this come true. People will always have beliefs, 'religious' or not. Tolerating, discussing and understanding is surely a better approach for peace. Edited October 6, 2005 by awarrumbungle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Mouse Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Is it not extremely arrogant to assume your belief is better than most of the worlds. By your belief I'm referring to your atheism. Fundamentalism is an extreme ideology. If every muslim was of the same extreme belief, the idea wouldnt be so extreme anymore, and us 'peaceful' people probably wouldn't be around talking about it. Surely tolerance, awareness and understanding is a worthier goal to stop all this hate nonsense. If everybody in our world was an atheist, we would not be having holy wars. I'm not knocking religion. To each their own however, when fanatical religious groups try to shove their brand of religion down everyone throats and become violent in so doing, then problems arise. Today, these fanatics are blowing up families, ruining peoples lives for what? All in the name of "peace?" Give me a break !!! Your "tolerance, awareness and understanding" is not going to deter suicide bombers from their killing spree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awarrumbungle Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 (edited) When everybody is an athiest, materialism takes hold. When money is the lofty goal of enlightenment, countries rich in precious resources get bombed and controlled to further the fattening up of the already rich and ruthless. War is not just about religion. Power is the hardest thing to lose, whether it be power of peoples thoughts or pockets. and secondly, how do you know the tolerance thing won't work, nobodies tried it yet? Edited October 6, 2005 by awarrumbungle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamOne Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 If everybody in our world was an atheist, we would not be having holy wars. No, we would be having wars albeit with a different reasonI'm not knocking religion. To each their own however, when fanatical religious groups try to shove their brand of religion down everyone throats and become violent in so doing, then problems arise. Today, these fanatics are blowing up families, ruining peoples lives for what? All in the name of "peace?" Give me a break !!! Your "tolerance, awareness and understanding" is not going to deter suicide bombers from their killing spree. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They are not doing it in the name of peace!! they are doing it for the glory of Allah and their entrance to paradise. Mistaken and brainwashed maybe, but they believe it. Tolerance etc should be practised anyway, despite the myriad fools who are extremist. There is no excuse to follow them just because they shout the loudest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richb2004 Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Come on everyone, lay of the Muslims. There are people who kill over and over again in the name of Islam. Although they are devout and prey to Allah five time per day and follow the Quran emphatically they are not Muslims. Why not? Well because it’s convenient to say they are not. At the end of the day it is our entire fault that these otherwise peaceful young men (and women) are driven to this. It’s our happiness and capitalist infidel lives that cause the frustration and push them to the end. We should not condemn them; we should take steps to prevent it. Welcome them into our societies. If they choose to blow us up welcome their brothers or friends. Open more mosques, celebrate Ramadan and slaughter animals in the streets of New York. Eventually they will feel at home enough to stop blowing themselves up. Keep the female folk indoors, because it upsets them, and is inconsiderate to do otherwise. This is what we should be doing. It’s the only way to peace. After a time we will all be at one, under Islam of course, but there will be peace. So let’s start this process now, its stupid to fight it and loose lives. I’ve already started bashing my head on the floor five times per day and I feel the benefits of it. I now find it difficult to distinguish between what is real and not and right and wrong. Success! Sign up today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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