Osama Bin Laden dead - USA has his body

[lovetotravel]

Intersting is several speakers on CNN have said the facts will never be 100% known. (or publicized)...they don't want all the details exposed, and mis-information is a good possibility to help throw off other potential targets. Makes sense....

[Thai at Heart]

According to Peter King, Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, waterboarding lead to locating Bin Laden. So much for the bleeding-hearts claims that advanced interrogation techniques do not produce useful information. Congratulations to the U.S. military.

I noticed this too. Not sure why they have to advertise how they got hold of the information so much, but in the modern world of 24 hour news, the phrase "no comment" is getting rarer and rarer.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/8488436/WikiLeaks-Osama-bin-Laden-killed-after-tip-offs-from-Guantanamo.html

As for his burial; I don't care what they did with him, but if it goes even 1 cm to assuage the feelings of the Muslim world to say that they buried him at sea, so be it.

I somehow doubt very much that this was the case.

[Thai at Heart]

Burying him at sea won't stop a shrine. They'll just have one where he was killed.

I do wonder about why the US thought it was ok to go into Pakistan without telling them. Kind of breaching international law and all.

When you are harboring one of your allies most wanted, in a downtown suburb, i suspect international niceties are off. The Pakistanis have a lot to answer for for their duplicity.

[crusader79]

According to Peter King, Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, waterboarding lead to locating Bin Laden. So much for the bleeding-hearts claims that advanced interrogation techniques do not produce useful information. Congratulations to the U.S. military.

Peter King (R-New York), yeah, there's a guy worth taking seriously on the subject of anti-terrorism.....

In the 1980s, King actively supported terrorists within the Irish Republican movement, and frequently traveled to Northern Ireland to meet with senior members of the Provisional Irish Republican Army, many of whom he counted as friends.^[7][18] In 1982, speaking at a pro-IRA rally in Nassau County, New York, King said: "We must pledge ourselves to support those brave men and women who this very moment are carrying forth the struggle against British imperialism in the streets of Belfast and Derry."^[7][19] "In 1985, he convened a press conference before the start of New York City's St. Patrick's Day parade (for which he was Grand Marshal), and offered a defiant defense of the IRA: 'As we march up the avenue and share all the joy,' he declared, 'let us never forget the men and women who are suffering and, most of all, the men and women who are fighting.'"^[20] Regarding the 30 years of violence during which the IRA killed over 1700 people, including over 600 civilians, King said, ""If civilians are killed in an attack on a military installation, it is certainly regrettable, but I will not morally blame the IRA for it". King compared Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams to George Washington and asserted that the "British government is a murder machine".^[21]

^{http://en.wikipedia....i/Peter_T._King}

[venturalaw]

According to Peter King, Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, waterboarding lead to locating Bin Laden. So much for the bleeding-hearts claims that advanced interrogation techniques do not produce useful information. Congratulations to the U.S. military.

Peter King (R-New York), yeah, there's a guy worth taking seriously on the subject of anti-terrorism.....

In the 1980s, King actively supported terrorists within the Irish Republican movement, and frequently traveled to Northern Ireland to meet with senior members of the Provisional Irish Republican Army, many of whom he counted as friends.^[7][18] In 1982, speaking at a pro-IRA rally in Nassau County, New York, King said: "We must pledge ourselves to support those brave men and women who this very moment are carrying forth the struggle against British imperialism in the streets of Belfast and Derry."^[7][19] "In 1985, he convened a press conference before the start of New York City's St. Patrick's Day parade (for which he was Grand Marshal), and offered a defiant defense of the IRA: 'As we march up the avenue and share all the joy,' he declared, 'let us never forget the men and women who are suffering and, most of all, the men and women who are fighting.'"^[20] Regarding the 30 years of violence during which the IRA killed over 1700 people, including over 600 civilians, King said, ""If civilians are killed in an attack on a military installation, it is certainly regrettable, but I will not morally blame the IRA for it". King compared Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams to George Washington and asserted that the "British government is a murder machine".^[21]

^{http://en.wikipedia....i/Peter_T._King}

He is in the position to know about the information he shared. Whatever you wish to dig up about his past is irrelevant.

[happyrobert]

Wow, keys recovered, a fire alarm box, a pistol and a doll. Well, Bin Laden did it then, and only with airplanes, no explosives--brought three, count 'em, three buldings down separately into their own footprints, but somehow couldn't hit a structure as large as the Pentagon.

Couldn't hit the Pentagon? I had a friend who was killed at the Pentagon and a classmates whose mother was killed there, so I am not sure how you can contend that they couldn't hit it.

I did not say people did not die at the Pentagon, anymore than I said they did not die in New York. They certainly did. Each and every one a murder victim.

At least in New York, we were "allowed" to see video of aircraft striking the Towers. From numerous sources, angles and points. (This in a city of sky-scrapers, unlike the area surrounding the Pentagon, which is largely open due to a.) security reasons, and b.) nearby Ronald Reagan Airport. )

In Washington/Virginia, however, where one would rightly assume that in addition to thousands of government video surveilance cameras, a large number of of citizenry also possess video cameras and cell phone video cameras. Yet not a single valid clip was ever released of any aircraft, even in the vicinity of the Pentagon, let alone striking it. There are video cameras at the nearby airport, pointed at the Pentagon? Yet nothing?

The Pentagon is undoubtedly one of the top two or three buildings in the world when it comes to security surveilance. Probably tied for first place. Sophisticated cameras everywhere, pointed up, down, around. Yet not a single camera or person caught a commercial airliner screaming down through the skys towards it? I would have a hard time accepting that in Omaha, Nebraska. But just outside our capitol? Home of the White House, the CIA, the DIA, the FBI and the Pentagon? Such a "fact" stretches the imagination beyond its limits.

How many major as well as minor events in recent times have been caught on cell-phone videos? Lots. Yet the damage done to the Pentagon remains "untaped" to this day.

I started my personal investigation in my off duty time only weeks after September the eleventh. I did so because I also had a friend die there. I knew an NYPD cop who was killed in the Towers. We had gone to Quantico together back in the late 80's. So, while I am sorry about your loss of a friend, and while I mean no offense, I wanted to know why my friend died. I was not willing to take my government's word for it.

I have no idea whether or not Bin Laden is dead, if so, when or how. I simply do not have a reason to believe my government, or the news.

[IAMSOBAD]

Why are so many anti-american geniuses posting on such a small platform and living in a third world cesspool?

With all of your knowledge and inside information I would think you could rule a country...or continent.

Some of you think you should rule a planet...but here you are...stuck on TV posting and teaching us ALL YOU KNOW!

[kerryk]

I don't read a lot of INTERNET forums. Are other Western forums as filled with conspiracy theories as Thai Visa?

[luckizuchinni]

Happy he's finally been got.

Don't think he's dead; y burry his body so quick at sea with no photo proof released? Because he's alive and gunna get 'interrogated' for every last drop of information ; not alive no human rights etc complications

Of all the conspiracy-type posts in this thread, this is the first one which actually makes any degree of sense. I am not saying I think this is the truth, but at least it makes logical sense.

[skybluestu]

We'll know the truth in 20yrs or so as most of the navy seals who were part of the mission will no doubt retire in Thailand and be posting on TV like so many of their comrades before them.

[bonobo]

Wow, keys recovered, a fire alarm box, a pistol and a doll. Well, Bin Laden did it then, and only with airplanes, no explosives--brought three, count 'em, three buldings down separately into their own footprints, but somehow couldn't hit a structure as large as the Pentagon.

Couldn't hit the Pentagon? I had a friend who was killed at the Pentagon and a classmates whose mother was killed there, so I am not sure how you can contend that they couldn't hit it.

I did not say people did not die at the Pentagon, anymore than I said they did not die in New York. They certainly did. Each and every one a murder victim.

At least in New York, we were "allowed" to see video of aircraft striking the Towers. From numerous sources, angles and points. (This in a city of sky-scrapers, unlike the area surrounding the Pentagon, which is largely open due to a.) security reasons, and b.) nearby Ronald Reagan Airport. )

In Washington/Virginia, however, where one would rightly assume that in addition to thousands of government video surveilance cameras, a large number of of citizenry also possess video cameras and cell phone video cameras. Yet not a single valid clip was ever released of any aircraft, even in the vicinity of the Pentagon, let alone striking it. There are video cameras at the nearby airport, pointed at the Pentagon? Yet nothing?

The Pentagon is undoubtedly one of the top two or three buildings in the world when it comes to security surveilance. Probably tied for first place. Sophisticated cameras everywhere, pointed up, down, around. Yet not a single camera or person caught a commercial airliner screaming down through the skys towards it? I would have a hard time accepting that in Omaha, Nebraska. But just outside our capitol? Home of the White House, the CIA, the DIA, the FBI and the Pentagon? Such a "fact" stretches the imagination beyond its limits.

How many major as well as minor events in recent times have been caught on cell-phone videos? Lots. Yet the damage done to the Pentagon remains "untaped" to this day.

I started my personal investigation in my off duty time only weeks after September the eleventh. I did so because I also had a friend die there. I knew an NYPD cop who was killed in the Towers. We had gone to Quantico together back in the late 80's. So, while I am sorry about your loss of a friend, and while I mean no offense, I wanted to know why my friend died. I was not willing to take my government's word for it.

I have no idea whether or not Bin Laden is dead, if so, when or how. I simply do not have a reason to believe my government, or the news.

I am not going to get into a conspiracy-theory argument here. I just wonder as to what people like you think caused the damage? A missile wouldn't have the power. A bomb wouldn't have the power nor the damage pattern. And what about the airplane parts found in the wreckage? And if the plane did not hit the Pentagon, then where is that plane? It had to go somewhere.

No need to respond. This is not the place for this specific debate.

[flying]

According to Peter King, Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, waterboarding lead to locating Bin Laden. So much for the bleeding-hearts claims that advanced interrogation techniques do not produce useful information. Congratulations to the U.S. military.

Dont much care what information may be gained by torture of any kind...Just would like a clear position on it.

If the US wants to be able to use this technique that they hung Japanese soldiers for using after WWII...

Then perhaps they should be clear on it & remove their signature from the United Nations Convention Against Torture

Again....I am not saying up or down I am saying be consistent. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander.

Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

– Convention Against Torture, Article 1.1

Edited May 3, 2011 by flying

[lovetotravel]

Wow, keys recovered, a fire alarm box, a pistol and a doll. Well, Bin Laden did it then, and only with airplanes, no explosives--brought three, count 'em, three buldings down separately into their own footprints, but somehow couldn't hit a structure as large as the Pentagon.

Couldn't hit the Pentagon? I had a friend who was killed at the Pentagon and a classmates whose mother was killed there, so I am not sure how you can contend that they couldn't hit it.

I did not say people did not die at the Pentagon, anymore than I said they did not die in New York. They certainly did. Each and every one a murder victim.

At least in New York, we were "allowed" to see video of aircraft striking the Towers. From numerous sources, angles and points. (This in a city of sky-scrapers, unlike the area surrounding the Pentagon, which is largely open due to a.) security reasons, and b.) nearby Ronald Reagan Airport. )

In Washington/Virginia, however, where one would rightly assume that in addition to thousands of government video surveilance cameras, a large number of of citizenry also possess video cameras and cell phone video cameras. Yet not a single valid clip was ever released of any aircraft, even in the vicinity of the Pentagon, let alone striking it. There are video cameras at the nearby airport, pointed at the Pentagon? Yet nothing?

The Pentagon is undoubtedly one of the top two or three buildings in the world when it comes to security surveilance. Probably tied for first place. Sophisticated cameras everywhere, pointed up, down, around. Yet not a single camera or person caught a commercial airliner screaming down through the skys towards it? I would have a hard time accepting that in Omaha, Nebraska. But just outside our capitol? Home of the White House, the CIA, the DIA, the FBI and the Pentagon? Such a "fact" stretches the imagination beyond its limits.

How many major as well as minor events in recent times have been caught on cell-phone videos? Lots. Yet the damage done to the Pentagon remains "untaped" to this day.

I started my personal investigation in my off duty time only weeks after September the eleventh. I did so because I also had a friend die there. I knew an NYPD cop who was killed in the Towers. We had gone to Quantico together back in the late 80's. So, while I am sorry about your loss of a friend, and while I mean no offense, I wanted to know why my friend died. I was not willing to take my government's word for it.

I have no idea whether or not Bin Laden is dead, if so, when or how. I simply do not have a reason to believe my government, or the news.

Wow...the evidence is obvious. But the tin foil hat brigade is alive and well, obviously... again, kinda like saying the debris was never scrutinized. It was with a fine tooth comb.

[happyrobert]

Why are so many anti-american geniuses posting on such a small platform and living in a third world cesspool?

With all of your knowledge and inside information I would think you could rule a country...or continent.

Some of you think you should rule a planet...but here you are...stuck on TV posting and teaching us ALL YOU KNOW!

I am not anti-American. If I were, I'd be against myself. As previously stated, I love my country, and my fellow citizens.

Thailand is not a cesspool.

It always comes down to comments like yours. Folks who can not logically, calmly articulate facts (I have not presented any theories), so you finally lose it and throw insults because someone refuses to agree with you.

I do not think I should rule a planet, but perhaps you should get your head out of Uranus.

[Wallaby]

International Law should not be something you can pick and chose at will. I guess any country can now refuse to follow international law and all will be ok.

As for the warterboarding, it is illegal, I don't care if Bin Laden's whereabouts were obtained that way, what about the many people who are tortured and do not know. What about the many people who give false information because of the torture. I'm sure innocent people have been tortured and/or killed because of false information gained through torture.

There is no excuse for it.....EVER and the Bush government should be totally ashamed of themselves for condoning it and ordering it. Once you cross that path you can't then complain when your own army/citizens are tortured by others.

[luckizuchinni]

International Law should not be something you can pick and chose at will. I guess any country can now refuse to follow international law and all will be ok.

As for the warterboarding, it is illegal, I don't care if Bin Laden's whereabouts were obtained that way, what about the many people who are tortured and do not know. What about the many people who give false information because of the torture. I'm sure innocent people have been tortured and/or killed because of false information gained through torture.

There is no excuse for it.....EVER and the Bush government should be totally ashamed of themselves for condoning it and ordering it. Once you cross that path you can't then complain when your own army/citizens are tortured by others.

I am not advocating torture. It is often useless as people will tell anything to get it to stop, true or not.

On the other hand, if I was in combat and one of my men taken, and I knew I had only a few precious moments before it would be too late to rescue him, would I "torture" one of the enemy to get the info I need to affect a rescue? Would I threaten to kill him? Hit him? Or would i wait for him to be taken to the rear and interrogated by the experts who use approved interrogation techniques and have any information gained be too late to do any good?

If I was a policeman and I had a kidnapper who had hidden away a child, and that child's life was in danger, would I attempt t use force to get the kidnapper to tell me where the child was?

I have to admit that I might be tempted to use whatever method it took to get the info I needed.

When does the end justify the means? And if it is OK to use torture in the two hypotheticals above, then where is the line where it is not OK?

Once again, I am not advocating torture. But it also makes me think on what I might do in such a situation.

Edited May 3, 2011 by luckizuchinni

[Ulysses G.]

Burying him at sea won't stop a shrine. They'll just have one where he was killed.

I do wonder about why the US thought it was ok to go into Pakistan without telling them. Kind of breaching international law and all.

So is harboring a mass murderer. F Pakistan.

[IvanDobsky]

Peter King (R-New York), yeah, there's a guy worth taking seriously on the subject of anti-terrorism.....

In the 1980s, King actively supported terrorists within the Irish Republican movement,...King said: "We must pledge ourselves to support those brave men and women who this very moment are carrying forth the struggle against British imperialism in the streets of Belfast and Derry."...."If civilians are killed in an attack on a military installation, it is certainly regrettable, but I will not morally blame the IRA for it"..... and asserted that the "British government is a murder machine".

He is in the position to know about the information he shared. Whatever you wish to dig up about his past is irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant to people who lived through those times in the UK. He supported terrorists then and is now responsible for homeland security.

Peter King is what we call a hypocrite. He would cut down a giant redwood then stand on the stump and preach conservation.

[venturalaw]

Americans are tortured either way by the scum that you pity. We are forced to level the playing field to survive. If you cannot see that then you are choosing to ignore the obvious. Or you just hate America, as do many, for it's freedom and unparalleled successes.

[Wallaby]

Burying him at sea won't stop a shrine. They'll just have one where he was killed.

I do wonder about why the US thought it was ok to go into Pakistan without telling them. Kind of breaching international law and all.

So is harboring a mass murderer. F Pakistan.

What proof do you have that he was being harboured?

[Wallaby]

Americans are tortured either way by the scum that you pity. We are forced to level the playing field to survive. If you cannot see that then you are choosing to ignore the obvious. Or you just hate America, as do many, for it's freedom and unparalleled successes.

Is your post directed at my post?

The scum that I pity includes an aussie that has been kept in prison and tortured, found to have had nothing to do with terrorism and has received compensation. So now you refer to innocents as scum. Well that's lovely.

http://www.smh.com.a...0212-1aran.html

This is where torture advocates fail. It's all well and good to think that anyone tortured is guilty and is scum but the reality is that innocent people are tortured, and sometimes they are tortured because of information gained from others that have been tortured.

I don't hate america. It's freedom and unparalleled success, as you put it, are of no concern to me, I have never been there nor wish to go there. How grandiose of you to proclaim your country the be all and end all. Not everyone wants the same freedoms and what you call success. I certainly don't.

I prefer to live in my country where there aren't the freedoms you have. Too much freedom has too many downsides. Unparalleled sucesses? Well I suppose that depends on what you define as success, it's all subjective. If you are happy with what you have in america and consider it a success then I'm happy for you. I prefer my country, with the good and the bad, and consider it a success. Of course there can always be better but to me, becoming like america is not what I would consider my country becoming a success.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Wallaby

[flying]

Americans are tortured either way by the scum that you pity. We are forced to level the playing field to survive. If you cannot see that then you are choosing to ignore the obvious. Or you just hate America, as do many, for it's freedom and unparalleled successes.

I dont pity any scum as you so eloquently put it.

I only mention the law that the US has endorsed by being a signatory to the United Nations Convention Against Torture

Your name on TV has "law" in it so I thought you may understand that.

If on the other hand you are saying it is to be condoned by the USA then by all means condone it ...openly

Do not on the one hand hang Japanese soldiers for doing it then turn around & claim it is justifiable in the cases you choose to justify.

Kow Jai Mai?

[trisailer]

Ghandi ran the brits out of India with nonviolence. MLK changed America for the better with nonviolence. Those are two examples of success at changing the world through nonviolence. I have a much harder task of finding where violence ever produced sustainable change for the better.

An eye for and eye leaves everyone blind - Ghandi

[luckizuchinni]

Americans are tortured either way by the scum that you pity. We are forced to level the playing field to survive. If you cannot see that then you are choosing to ignore the obvious. Or you just hate America, as do many, for it's freedom and unparalleled successes.

I dont pity any scum as you so eloquently put it.

I only mention the law that the US has endorsed by being a signatory to the United Nations Convention Against Torture

Your name on TV has "law" in it so I thought you may understand that.

If on the other hand you are saying it is to be condoned by the USA then by all means condone it ...openly

Do not on the one hand hang Japanese soldiers for doing it then turn around & claim it is justifiable in the cases you choose to justify.

Kow Jai Mai?

Let's be a little more accurate. I don't know of any Japanese soldier or sailor who was hanged for mere torture. They were hanged for mostly Class C war crimes, which included crimes against humanity, and some Class B war crimes. Many senior officers were hanged for their policies and for actions by their units, and most of the others were hanged for executions of military prisoners and civilians.

[jazzbo]

Why are so many anti-american geniuses posting on such a small platform and living in a third world cesspool?

With all of your knowledge and inside information I would think you could rule a country...or continent.

Some of you think you should rule a planet...but here you are...stuck on TV posting and teaching us ALL YOU KNOW!

It's great to be a big fish in a little pond (k.j.m.?)... BTW according to the NY Times part of the reason for the sea burial was that no other country (presumably Saudi Arabia nor his ancestral home Yemen) were willing to take the body.

[SAffer]

Ghandi ran the brits out of India with nonviolence. MLK changed America for the better with nonviolence. Those are two examples of success at changing the world through nonviolence. I have a much harder task of finding where violence ever produced sustainable change for the better.

An eye for and eye leaves everyone blind - Ghandi

Nelson Mandela, however, did use violence.

[flying]

Let's be a little more accurate. I don't know of any Japanese soldier or sailor who was hanged for mere torture. .

Well then you need to do a bit of reading

Here is a simple start for you

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2007/dec/18/john-mccain/history-supports-mccains-stance-on-waterboarding/

McCain is referencing the Tokyo Trials, officially known as the International Military Tribunal for the Far East. After World War II, an international coalition convened to prosecute Japanese soldiers charged with torture. At the top of the list of techniques was water-based interrogation, known variously then as "water cure," "water torture" and "waterboarding," according to the charging documents. It simulates drowning.

" ... following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding."

John McCain on Thursday, November 29th, 2007 in a campaign event in St. Petersburg

There is much more available to read if you would only look & yes they were hung for the crimes.

Edited May 3, 2011 by flying

[coconutmonkey]

Anybody remember the "offical" pentagon Jessica Lynch story? The one where her humvee was attacked, flipped over and she bravely defended herself unloading her M16 before using her knife to defend herself? She was shot, stabbed, raped and finally extracted from her captives in a daring rescue carried out by brave special forces? The effect of this story was a valuable spike of support for President Bush and the war effort.

Of course months later a less publicized story showed Lynch testifying before congress that the pentagon had made the whole story up. A fictional story created by Bush's pr propagandist Jim Wilkinson. Lynch said that in fact she offered no resistance at all. Her gun jammed and she crumpled to the grown crying and praying. She was never shot, stabbed or raped. She had a broken leg and other injuries which occurred when the humvee flipped. The "extraction" was nothing more than Jerry Bruckheimer theatrics and in real life the hospital she was in turned her over without any resistance.

Add the Lynch lie to the mountain of lies the Federal government has told over the decades and tell me how I am supposed to believe a dam_n thing they say?

Agreed. Well said.

As for this whole topic:

It's okay to say: "burn in hell" to a human, regardless of what you THINK you know about him (what you have been fed, that is).

It's not okay to say: Obama gets a massive election boost, no other country was involved in the raid, the body was disposed of rather quickly (again), there is no evidence of the death, look at what happened with election results concerning Bill Clinton and Ricky Roy Rector

<snip>

Justice has been done? What for the million people killed by the US in the middle east after chasing him around for a decade? What about the billions of dollars that could have been spent on health, recovery from natural disasters and so forth? Justice??? For those who want their poppy fields and oil wells.... the ones with all the answers, and the motive too. But of course, it's easier just to say no to anything other than the world is flat.

Edited May 3, 2011 by craigt3365
Discussion of Moderation

[Wallaby]

Ghandi ran the brits out of India with nonviolence. MLK changed America for the better with nonviolence. Those are two examples of success at changing the world through nonviolence. I have a much harder task of finding where violence ever produced sustainable change for the better.

An eye for and eye leaves everyone blind - Ghandi

Nelson Mandela, however, did use violence.

But then again, all it did was land him in jail. However, when he used a peaceful path all things changed.

[SAffer]

Ghandi ran the brits out of India with nonviolence. MLK changed America for the better with nonviolence. Those are two examples of success at changing the world through nonviolence. I have a much harder task of finding where violence ever produced sustainable change for the better.

An eye for and eye leaves everyone blind - Ghandi

Nelson Mandela, however, did use violence.

But then again, all it did was land him in jail. However, when he used a peaceful path all things changed.

Quite right.