Pacquiao Vs Mosley

[johnnyk]

dream on baht but facts and opinions are not the same.

[bhatmasterson]

Manny is class act. Congressman, humanitarian who has single handedly lifted boxing from the alphabet soup abyss that had stagnated the sport. The only boxer that sold out Dallas Cowboys new state of the art facility twice. Manny could very well become the first boxer billionare.How many times has Manny fought in the last 3 years? About triple that of Mayweather. FM's next battle will be in a courtroom. Everyone is entitled to thier own opinion here as long as they are within forum rules,(myself included.) Moving on. The next big fight I see on the horizon is the Klitchco heavyweight fight. I don;t see it going the distance and there could be an early KO.

Okay Danderson, Sly of you to get your parting shots in and then change the subject to the Klitchcos. Okay. So here you go, Haye is in trouble.

Now back to the topic:

Manny is class act. Congressman, humanitarian who has single handedly lifted boxing from the alphabet soup abyss that had stagnated the sport.

I agree. Manny's public persona is very a positive one. However, Manny is a fighter first and a congressman second. I think it's fair to say that were it not for his fame, earned in the ring, he would not be a congressman. I don't really know how the fact that he's a politician figures into this thread other than to help emphasize Manny is well liked, which is obvious already.

I know what you mean about the seemingly renewed interest in the sport because of the excitement Manny brings to the ring. But true boxing fans, not just fans of certain fighters, have been following the sport of boxing way before Manny came on the scene and will still be watching after he's finished. No fighter/boxer singlehandedly does anything. There is always an opponent in the ring as well.

The only boxer that sold out Dallas Cowboys new state of the art facility twice.

That might be true. However, I do remember seeing some empty seats in the stadium during the broadcast. But let's say you are correct. What other boxing matches have taken place there thus far that did not sell out?

Manny could very well become the first boxer billionare.

This could very well be true. And as much as I don't want to compare the two in terms of who is the better boxer or who earns more money, it takes Manny 2 or 3 fights to surpass what Floyd earns for 1 fight. That said, Let me reiterate, I am a fan of boxing and I don't care who makes what. I just enjoy watching fighters display their skills in evenly matched contests.

How many times has Manny fought in the last 3 years? About triple that of Mayweather.

Okay.

So, I'm in agreement with you in that Manny is a good and exciting fighter who is well liked and sells a lot of tickets. And he may become the first fighter billionaire.

[bhatmasterson]

dream on baht but facts and opinions are not the same.

Johnny, I don't follow your meaning here. The times where I've stated my opinion are pretty clear. There have been plenty of fact and numbers offered as well. I can see from your previous posts that you have ties to the Philippine culture which are quite strong. Perhaps your view on Manny is a bit biased.

[bhatmasterson]

dream on baht but facts and opinions are not the same.

Johnny, I don't follow your meaning here. The times where I've stated my opinion are pretty clear. There have been plenty of fact and numbers offered as well. I can see from your previous posts that you have ties to the Philippine culture which are quite strong. Perhaps your view on Manny is a bit biased.

[tropo]

Manny is class act. Congressman, humanitarian who has single handedly lifted boxing from the alphabet soup abyss that had stagnated the sport. The only boxer that sold out Dallas Cowboys new state of the art facility twice. Manny could very well become the first boxer billionare.How many times has Manny fought in the last 3 years? About triple that of Mayweather. FM's next battle will be in a courtroom. Everyone is entitled to thier own opinion here as long as they are within forum rules,(myself included.) Moving on. The next big fight I see on the horizon is the Klitchco heavyweight fight. I don;t see it going the distance and there could be an early KO.

Okay Danderson, Sly of you to get your parting shots in and then change the subject to the Klitchcos. Okay. So here you go, Haye is in trouble.

Now back to the topic:

Manny is class act. Congressman, humanitarian who has single handedly lifted boxing from the alphabet soup abyss that had stagnated the sport.

I agree. Manny's public persona is very a positive one. However, Manny is a fighter first and a congressman second. I think it's fair to say that were it not for his fame, earned in the ring, he would not be a congressman. I don't really know how the fact that he's a politician figures into this thread other than to help emphasize Manny is well liked, which is obvious already.

I know what you mean about the seemingly renewed interest in the sport because of the excitement Manny brings to the ring. But true boxing fans, not just fans of certain fighters, have been following the sport of boxing way before Manny came on the scene and will still be watching after he's finished. No fighter/boxer singlehandedly does anything. There is always an opponent in the ring as well.

The only boxer that sold out Dallas Cowboys new state of the art facility twice.

That might be true. However, I do remember seeing some empty seats in the stadium during the broadcast. But let's say you are correct. What other boxing matches have taken place there thus far that did not sell out?

Manny could very well become the first boxer billionare.

This could very well be true. And as much as I don't want to compare the two in terms of who is the better boxer or who earns more money, it takes Manny 2 or 3 fights to surpass what Floyd earns for 1 fight. That said, Let me reiterate, I am a fan of boxing and I don't care who makes what. I just enjoy watching fighters display their skills in evenly matched contests.

How many times has Manny fought in the last 3 years? About triple that of Mayweather.

Okay.

So, I'm in agreement with you in that Manny is a good and exciting fighter who is well liked and sells a lot of tickets. And he may become the first fighter billionaire.

1. Manny is now a congressman first and a boxer second. Make no mistake about it, if he had to choose between the two, boxing would go first. He's right at the very end of his boxing career and everybody knows that.

2. He didn't sell out the Dallas Cowboy's stadium. They had it configured to seat a certain number (around 50,000) for the boxing event, but it was not a sellout.

3. Nobody is seriously saying he's going to become a boxing billionaire. Right now his net worth is estimated at USD 70M and he's one of the world's highest earning sportsmen. I think this was taken out of context when some people were referring to him being a Philippine Peso billionaire. If he makes USD 25 million out of his most recent fight (20M guarantee plus 5M PPV extra) that will total just over 1 billion Philippine peso.

4. Your point that it takes Manny 2 or 3 fights to surpass what Floyd earns for 1 fight is absolute nonsense.

You're so wrong it's positively insulting to the champ, so I feel duty bound to disclose the truth.

First of all, Pacquiao didn't hit the big time until he fought De La Hoya in December 2008. Before that the most PPV sales he had were around 400K for his March 2008 fight against JMM.

There is no point comparing the pre-De La Hoya Pacquiao with Mayweather at that time because before that Pacquiao was not considered to be on the same level. He had not reached superstar status.

You probably were using the 2.4 million PPV buys in Mayweather's May 2007 fight with De La Hoya as a way to come up with your ridiculous comment in point 3. This is a full year and a half before Pacquiao hit the big time. We have to compare their PPV numbers in the era where both were superstars, therefore post December 2008 is where this comparison should begin.

(Mayweather and company continue to use this 2.4 million PPV figure to show how superior he is to Pacquiao, earning wise. The truth is De La Hoya was the biggest name in that fight and at least half of the buys should have been attributed to him. Two superstars getting together to fight is a very rare event and we'll see the same thing happening if Mayweather and Pacquiao ever fight. This figure can never logically be used to gauge their individual current PPV appeal)

Post December 2008 we have:

Mayweather vs:

2007-12-08: Ricky Hatton: 850K PPV buys (before the Pacquiao superstar error, but an interesting figure to make a comparison)

2009-09-19: Juan Manuel Marquez: 1 M PPV buys.

(Pacquiao's up and coming stardom had a lot to do with bumping up this figure because of his history with JMM. It also helped that Mayweather [coming out of retirement] announced this fight on the eve of the Pacquiao/Hatton fight. If he was half a man he would have waited for the results of that fight and challenged Pacquiao. Everyone was expecting Mayweather to challenge Pacquiao back then, but instead they had to settle for Mayweather fighting JMM, an opponent who had previously given Pacquiao trouble)

2010-05-01: Shane Mosley: 1.4 M PPV buys.

Pacquiao vs:

2008-12-06: Oscar de la Hoya: 1.25 M PPV buys.

2009-05-12: Ricky Hatton: 850K PPV buys (exactly the same as Mayweather)

2009-11-14: Miguel Cotto: 1.25M PPV buys.

2010-03-13: Joshua Clottey:700K PPV buys. (and absolutely astounding result considering that Clottey was a virtual unknown from Africa)

2010-11-13: Antonio Margarito: 1.15M PPV buys.(another astounding result considering how unpopular Margarito was after his notorious 1 year ban from boxing.)

2011-05-07:Shane Mosley: Still to be announced, but looking to be in the vicinity of 1.2 - 1.3M buys on a competing network (CBS/Showtime).

Analysis

In the Pacquiao era he has had 3 fights above Mayweather's 1M buys against JMM. They were equal against Ricky Hatton. They are also looking about equal against Shane Mosley.

There is no doubt after a careful analysis of the figures that Pacquiao is by far the biggest PPV draw card in this current post 2008 era.

[bhatmasterson]

Manny is class act. Congressman, humanitarian who has single handedly lifted boxing from the alphabet soup abyss that had stagnated the sport. The only boxer that sold out Dallas Cowboys new state of the art facility twice. Manny could very well become the first boxer billionare.How many times has Manny fought in the last 3 years? About triple that of Mayweather. FM's next battle will be in a courtroom. Everyone is entitled to thier own opinion here as long as they are within forum rules,(myself included.) Moving on. The next big fight I see on the horizon is the Klitchco heavyweight fight. I don;t see it going the distance and there could be an early KO.

Okay Danderson, Sly of you to get your parting shots in and then change the subject to the Klitchcos. Okay. So here you go, Haye is in trouble.

Now back to the topic:

Manny is class act. Congressman, humanitarian who has single handedly lifted boxing from the alphabet soup abyss that had stagnated the sport.

I agree. Manny's public persona is very a positive one. However, Manny is a fighter first and a congressman second. I think it's fair to say that were it not for his fame, earned in the ring, he would not be a congressman. I don't really know how the fact that he's a politician figures into this thread other than to help emphasize Manny is well liked, which is obvious already.

I know what you mean about the seemingly renewed interest in the sport because of the excitement Manny brings to the ring. But true boxing fans, not just fans of certain fighters, have been following the sport of boxing way before Manny came on the scene and will still be watching after he's finished. No fighter/boxer singlehandedly does anything. There is always an opponent in the ring as well.

The only boxer that sold out Dallas Cowboys new state of the art facility twice.

That might be true. However, I do remember seeing some empty seats in the stadium during the broadcast. But let's say you are correct. What other boxing matches have taken place there thus far that did not sell out?

Manny could very well become the first boxer billionare.

This could very well be true. And as much as I don't want to compare the two in terms of who is the better boxer or who earns more money, it takes Manny 2 or 3 fights to surpass what Floyd earns for 1 fight. That said, Let me reiterate, I am a fan of boxing and I don't care who makes what. I just enjoy watching fighters display their skills in evenly matched contests.

How many times has Manny fought in the last 3 years? About triple that of Mayweather.

Okay.

So, I'm in agreement with you in that Manny is a good and exciting fighter who is well liked and sells a lot of tickets. And he may become the first fighter billionaire.

1. Manny is now a congressman first and a boxer second. Make no mistake about it, if he had to choose between the two, boxing would go first. He's right at the very end of his boxing career and everybody knows that.

2. He didn't sell out the Dallas Cowboy's stadium. They had it configured to seat a certain number (around 50,000) for the boxing event, but it was not a sellout.

3. Nobody is seriously saying he's going to become a boxing billionaire. Right now his net worth is estimated at USD 70M and he's one of the world's highest earning sportsmen. I think this was taken out of context when some people were referring to him being a Philippine Peso billionaire. If he makes USD 25 million out of his most recent fight (20M guarantee plus 5M PPV extra) that will total just over 1 billion Philippine peso.

4. Your point that it takes Manny 2 or 3 fights to surpass what Floyd earns for 1 fight is absolute nonsense.

You're so wrong it's positively insulting to the champ, so I feel duty bound to disclose the truth.

First of all, Pacquiao didn't hit the big time until he fought De La Hoya in December 2008. Before that the most PPV sales he had were around 400K for his March 2008 fight against JMM.

There is no point comparing the pre-De La Hoya Pacquiao with Mayweather at that time because before that Pacquiao was not considered to be on the same level. He had not reached superstar status.

You probably were using the 2.4 million PPV buys in Mayweather's May 2007 fight with De La Hoya as a way to come up with your ridiculous comment in point 3. This is a full year and a half before Pacquiao hit the big time. We have to compare their PPV numbers in the era where both were superstars, therefore post December 2008 is where this comparison should begin.

(Mayweather and company continue to use this 2.4 million PPV figure to show how superior he is to Pacquiao, earning wise. The truth is De La Hoya was the biggest name in that fight and at least half of the buys should have been attributed to him. Two superstars getting together to fight is a very rare event and we'll see the same thing happening if Mayweather and Pacquiao ever fight. This figure can never logically be used to gauge their individual current PPV appeal)

Post December 2008 we have:

Mayweather vs:

2007-12-08: Ricky Hatton: 850K PPV buys (before the Pacquiao superstar error, but an interesting figure to make a comparison)

2009-09-19: Juan Manuel Marquez: 1 M PPV buys.

(Pacquiao's up and coming stardom had a lot to do with bumping up this figure because of his history with JMM. It also helped that Mayweather [coming out of retirement] announced this fight on the eve of the Pacquiao/Hatton fight. If he was half a man he would have waited for the results of that fight and challenged Pacquiao. Everyone was expecting Mayweather to challenge Pacquiao back then, but instead they had to settle for Mayweather fighting JMM, an opponent who had previously given Pacquiao trouble)

2010-05-01: Shane Mosley: 1.4 M PPV buys.

Pacquiao vs:

2008-12-06: Oscar de la Hoya: 1.25 M PPV buys.

2009-05-12: Ricky Hatton: 850K PPV buys (exactly the same as Mayweather)

2009-11-14: Miguel Cotto: 1.25M PPV buys.

2010-03-13: Joshua Clottey:700K PPV buys. (and absolutely astounding result considering that Clottey was a virtual unknown from Africa)

2010-11-13: Antonio Margarito: 1.15M PPV buys.(another astounding result considering how unpopular Margarito was after his notorious 1 year ban from boxing.)

2011-05-07:Shane Mosley: Still to be announced, but looking to be in the vicinity of 1.2 - 1.3M buys on a competing network (CBS/Showtime).

Analysis

In the Pacquiao era he has had 3 fights above Mayweather's 1M buys against JMM. They were equal against Ricky Hatton. They are also looking about equal against Shane Mosley.

There is no doubt after a careful analysis of the figures that Pacquiao is by far the biggest PPV draw card in this current post 2008 era.

Yes. Manny is now a congressman. My point is that he probably wouldn't be were it not for his success in the boxing ring.

You're so wrong it's positively insulting to the champ, so I feel duty bound to disclose the truth.

In order to disclose the truth you must first truly understand what the truth is. Answer the following questions and you will know the truth.

You are confusing PPV buys and ticket sells with actual earnings. Manny has a very rich manager over at Top Rank. Floyd used to be represented by the same company. Do you know how the CEO, Bob Arum, of Top Rank got to be so rich? Do you know why Floyd left Top Rank? Did you know that Floyd personally took in over 30 million for his fight with Shane Mosley? How much was Manny guaranteed for his fight with Shane? Even with Manny's share of the PPV, he doesn't get it all you know, he won't surpass 30 million. Floyd is his own manager. No greedy middleman to contend with.

Okay, I'll happily talk about boxing but won't talk earnings anymore because that's not boxing. It's not my money anyway. Talking about the finances of 2 boxing legends seems like fan boy stuff IMO. I wouldn't care if they fought for free. I just want to see the dam_n fight. PEACE!

[tropo]

Yes. Manny is now a congressman. My point is that he probably wouldn't be were it not for his success in the boxing ring.

You're so wrong it's positively insulting to the champ, so I feel duty bound to disclose the truth.

In order to disclose the truth you must first truly understand what the truth is. Answer the following questions and you will know the truth.

You are confusing PPV buys and ticket sells with actual earnings. Manny has a very rich manager over at Top Rank. Floyd used to be represented by the same company. Do you know how the CEO, Bob Arum, of Top Rank got to be so rich? Do you know why Floyd left Top Rank? Did you know that Floyd personally took in over 30 million for his fight with Shane Mosley? How much was Manny guaranteed for his fight with Shane? Even with Manny's share of the PPV, he doesn't get it all you know, he won't surpass 30 million. Floyd is his own manager. No greedy middleman to contend with.

Okay, I'll happily talk about boxing but won't talk earnings anymore because that's not boxing. It's not my money anyway. Talking about the finances of 2 boxing legends seems like fan boy stuff IMO. I wouldn't care if they fought for free. I just want to see the dam_n fight. PEACE!

I'm not confusing anything. I've just shown that Pacquiao sells more PPV's (he's been one of the highest earning sportsmen on the planet for several years).

These are quantifiable figures which can be analyzed ... all the rest is guesswork.

You're wrong about Mayweather being independent. All the negotiations for a fight with Pacquiao had gone through Richard Schaefer, CEO of Golden Boy Promotions.

From the Golden Boy site:

"In 2009, the company broke records again by breaking the million mark in pay-per-view homes again with the return of Floyd Mayweather against Juan Manuel Marquez."

Floyd Mayweather does not have a signed contract with Golden Boy, but they managed all two of his big event fights over the last 2 years.

Do you think Pacquiao doesn't make money from sponsorship? How much money do Nike pay him? He has a lot of other income besides PPV. Do you have any idea of his earning power in the Philippines? He's a national superhero there.

No one can argue that he is far more popular and bankable than Mayweather. Mayweather is a clown who had done nothing more than sabotage his career since he retired the first time in 2007. Few take him seriously. People will pay to watch him fight because they want to see him knocked the **** out.

You say Mayweather made $30M from his fight with Mosley last year. Pacquiao is already guaranteed to take in $25M from last weekends clash. Let's wait until the final numbers are out to see how it plays out.

[bhatmasterson]

Yes. Manny is now a congressman. My point is that he probably wouldn't be were it not for his success in the boxing ring.

You're so wrong it's positively insulting to the champ, so I feel duty bound to disclose the truth.

In order to disclose the truth you must first truly understand what the truth is. Answer the following questions and you will know the truth.

You are confusing PPV buys and ticket sells with actual earnings. Manny has a very rich manager over at Top Rank. Floyd used to be represented by the same company. Do you know how the CEO, Bob Arum, of Top Rank got to be so rich? Do you know why Floyd left Top Rank? Did you know that Floyd personally took in over 30 million for his fight with Shane Mosley? How much was Manny guaranteed for his fight with Shane? Even with Manny's share of the PPV, he doesn't get it all you know, he won't surpass 30 million. Floyd is his own manager. No greedy middleman to contend with.

Okay, I'll happily talk about boxing but won't talk earnings anymore because that's not boxing. It's not my money anyway. Talking about the finances of 2 boxing legends seems like fan boy stuff IMO. I wouldn't care if they fought for free. I just want to see the dam_n fight. PEACE!

I'm not confusing anything. I've just shown that Pacquiao sells more PPV's (he's been one of the highest earning sportsmen on the planet for several years).

These are quantifiable figures which can be analyzed ... all the rest is guesswork.

You're wrong about Mayweather being independent. All the negotiations for a fight with Pacquiao had gone through Richard Schaefer, CEO of Golden Boy Promotions.

From the Golden Boy site:

"In 2009, the company broke records again by breaking the million mark in pay-per-view homes again with the return of Floyd Mayweather against Juan Manuel Marquez."

Floyd Mayweather does not have a signed contract with Golden Boy, but they managed all two of his big event fights over the last 2 years.

Do you think Pacquiao doesn't make money from sponsorship? How much money do Nike pay him? He has a lot of other income besides PPV. Do you have any idea of his earning power in the Philippines? He's a national superhero there.

No one can argue that he is far more popular and bankable than Mayweather. Mayweather is a clown who had done nothing more than sabotage his career since he retired the first time in 2007. Few take him seriously. People will pay to watch him fight because they want to see him knocked the **** out.

You say Mayweather made $30M from his fight with Mosley last year. Pacquiao is already guaranteed to take in $25M from last weekends clash. Let's wait until the final numbers are out to see how it plays out.

Over the past couple of weeks we've seen new developments concerning the boxing match that fans all over the world want to see. As I said weeks ago, I'm not much interested in discussing other people's money. However, here are a couple of article that I want to add to the mix of clouded, misconception you offered up surrounding these two fighters. Mayweather- Pacquiao Negotiations Timeline Part One http://www.fighthype...ntent10156.html . Here you will find a more in depth look at the the situation surrounding the history and obstacles that have kept these two boxing legends apart.

There are numbers here that may be surprising to some interesting to others. Despite the Hate, Should Mayweather's Return Concern Pacquiao? http://www.fighthype...ntent10193.html .

Both are rather long articles but thoroughly covering some of the points previously discussed on this thread.

[grumpyoldman]

Mayweather will go down in history as an excellent boxer, a champion.

PacMan will go down in boxing history as one of the greatest ever.

At this point, I don't think Mayweather ever gets back to elite boxer, he's going down the Tyson road. Complete fruitcake between the ears. Pokes some nightclub bouncer in the eye, stalking and taking the phone of ex-girlfriend, just a nutter.

Mayweather's comback fight will tell all, stay tuned boxing fans.

P.S. Pac-Mosely was a dog............horrible matchup by the promoters.

[tropo]

Mayweather will go down in history as an excellent boxer, a champion.

PacMan will go down in boxing history as one of the greatest ever.

At this point, I don't think Mayweather ever gets back to elite boxer, he's going down the Tyson road. Complete fruitcake between the ears. Pokes some nightclub bouncer in the eye, stalking and taking the phone of ex-girlfriend, just a nutter.

Mayweather's comback fight will tell all, stay tuned boxing fans.

P.S. Pac-Mosely was a dog............horrible matchup by the promoters.

That sums it up well. I'm done with this discussion.

Let's see how these guys are looking by the end of the year after they've both had one more fight.

[bhatmasterson]

Mayweather will go down in history as an excellent boxer, a champion.

PacMan will go down in boxing history as one of the greatest ever.

At this point, I don't think Mayweather ever gets back to elite boxer, he's going down the Tyson road. Complete fruitcake between the ears. Pokes some nightclub bouncer in the eye, stalking and taking the phone of ex-girlfriend, just a nutter.

Mayweather's comback fight will tell all, stay tuned boxing fans.

P.S. Pac-Mosely was a dog............horrible matchup by the promoters.

You may be correct. But questions continue to mount surrounding Manny's refusal to step up and be tested. (See Timeline article) This appears to be the only thing preventing that fight from taking place. Now, how will that look at the end of his career? How does it look now?? It's just plain suspicious IMO. Why doesn't he prove to his fans and to his detractors that he's so good he needs no enhancements? Why won't he agree to Olympic style testing and then proceed to beat the living daylights out of Mayweather? That would be his biggest moment in the sport, and yes, then I would agree with you that Manny could be recognized as one of the best boxers in the the sport. Hell, even if he took the test and gave a great fight but still lost to Mayweather, I'd still be willing to call him one of the best on that feat alone. All of this "Pride" b.s. is inexcusable and make no sense to true fans of the sport.

I will agree also with "Pac-Mosely was a dog..........." But the only promoter connected with that fight that I know of was Bob Arum, Manny's promoter. Mosley had to quit Golden Boy in order to get the fight.

[tropo]

Why won't he agree to Olympic style testing and then proceed to beat the living daylights out of Mayweather? That would be his biggest moment in the sport, and yes, then I would agree with you that Manny could be recognized as one of the best boxers in the the sport.

I will agree also with "Pac-Mosely was a dog..........." But the only promoter connected with that fight that I know of was Bob Arum, Manny's promoter. Mosley had to quit Golden Boy in order to get the fight.

I thought it was over until you had to parrot what Mayweather and his dwindling fold of supporters say ad nauseam.

I've got news for you, he is already recognized as "one of the best boxers in the sport", irrespective of what you may think.

One would have to wonder why Mayweather requires Olympic style drug testing if he's an easy opponent with no skills, as the Mayweather clan keep saying.

Mayweather's uncle even claims he needs more than one tune up fight before he is ready to face Pacquiao, then in the same breath claims that Ortiz is a better fighter.

It's pretty obvious Mayweather is a coward - has there ever been any doubt?

You also claim that the only thing which has prevented Pacquiao vs Mayweather from happening is Pacquiao's refusal to "take the test". Really? You need to go back and do some research, because that is nonsense. Mayweather came up with many reasons not to fight Pacquiao.

Edited June 28, 2011 by tropo

[WebBangkok]

Chickenweather is afraid of Manny.

He waits until Manny pics his opponents and THEN sets up a fight with Ortiz (poor mans Ricky Hatton).

Even his father said he will never let his son fight Manny.

They claim steroids made him walk through Cotto etc big shots, but roids do not improve your chin. Just ask Tommy Morrison and Fernado Vargas lol

[WebBangkok]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2BJst5P_Y

[tropo]

Chickenweather is afraid of Manny.

He waits until Manny pics his opponents and THEN sets up a fight with Ortiz (poor mans Ricky Hatton).

He ducked Pacquiao in a similar way in 2009. He signed up to fight JMM on the eve of Pacquiao vs Hatton.

[bhatmasterson]

Why won't he agree to Olympic style testing and then proceed to beat the living daylights out of Mayweather? That would be his biggest moment in the sport, and yes, then I would agree with you that Manny could be recognized as one of the best boxers in the the sport.

I will agree also with "Pac-Mosely was a dog..........." But the only promoter connected with that fight that I know of was Bob Arum, Manny's promoter. Mosley had to quit Golden Boy in order to get the fight.

I thought it was over until you had to parrot what Mayweather and his dwindling fold of supporters say ad nauseam.

I've got news for you, he is already recognized as "one of the best boxers in the sport", irrespective of what you may think.

One would have to wonder why Mayweather requires Olympic style drug testing if he's an easy opponent with no skills, as the Mayweather clan keep saying.

Mayweather's uncle even claims he needs more than one tune up fight before he is ready to face Pacquiao, then in the same breath claims that Ortiz is a better fighter.

It's pretty obvious Mayweather is a coward - has there ever been any doubt?

You also claim that the only thing which has prevented Pacquiao vs Mayweather from happening is Pacquiao's refusal to "take the test". Really? You need to go back and do some research, because that is nonsense. Mayweather came up with many reasons not to fight Pacquiao.

You thought it was over? Why? Because you pronounced it so?

He's recognized by some as the best boxer in the sport. Certainly not everyone.

Why not require Olympic style testing? That should be the question. Why would any clean athlete avoid it is another question which should be, and is being asked by a lot of fight fans.

You do some research yourself. The facts are in the timeline. Research done already. You should read before posting. Or are you just ignoring the facts again. Sure appears that way.

Entering the ring under the influence of any type of illegal performance enhancing stimulant is no different than a fighter using loaded gloves. You really should read more!

Please show the link where Mayweather's uncle says Oretiz is a better fighter than Floyd and stop making up you own facts. It's nothing but silly posturing and blind worship.

[bhatmasterson]

Chickenweather is afraid of Manny.

He waits until Manny pics his opponents and THEN sets up a fight with Ortiz (poor mans Ricky Hatton).

Even his father said he will never let his son fight Manny.

They claim steroids made him walk through Cotto etc big shots, but roids do not improve your chin. Just ask Tommy Morrison and Fernado Vargas lol

WebBangkok,

Personally, I like both fighters and when they do fight, I want it to be a good clean fight. I want the best, most skilled fighter to win and It doesn't matter to me which of the two it is. Although I fully recognize the danger in such a contest, I do not want to see either of them seriously hurt in any way. I've stated previously in this thread that, styles make the fights. As far as styles of boxing go, I prefer a boxer to a puncher. That's simply because I think technique in boxing is more interesting to watch than two guys slugging it out until one of them can't take any more and GKTFO. Any two grown men can beat each other into submission. But it takes skill to box. This does not mean that I prefer one fighter over the other. It means I prefer one style to the other. I really don't care who wins. A boxer verses a puncher has historically made for some of the best matches. I think it should be a pretty even fight.

You think Mayweather is a chicken and I have no objection to that. Mike Wilbon, the ESPN announcer in you video shares your opinion. But, what's that got to so with anything? I'm trying to talking boxing and you'r making the conversation about how you dislike the Mayweathers. Talk about boxing. Try not to make it personal. And present some facts why don't you?

He waits until Manny pics his opponents and THEN sets up a fight with Ortiz (poor mans Ricky Hatton).

I believe Bob Arum never even considered having Manny fight Floyd after Mosley. If my memory serves me correctly, Bob Arum said several weeks before the Mosley fight that Manny would be fighting one of three fighters after Mosley and Floyd was not one of those being considered. I don't know what a poor man's Ricky Hatton is. But I do know that Floyde fought Ricky Hatton and knocked him out when Ricky was champ. Not when he was on a downward spiral, coming off a defeat and a less than average showing against an opponent that would have given him no trouble at all a year before.

Even his father said he will never let his son fight Manny.

I do not believe this is what was said. I read an article a while back where Floyd Sr. said, If it was up to him, he would not let his son fight un-orthodox fighters.

They claim steroids made him walk through Cotto etc big shots, but roids do not improve your chin. Just ask Tommy Morrison and Fernado Vargas lol

You can LOL all you want. But clearly you know very little about PEDS.

Dr. David Tyler http://www.doghouseb...Tyler062011.htm

[WebBangkok]

these 2 have ego's, FLoyd has one and even Manny has a big ego.

Manny does not want to do his BS demands and has even agreed to them anyway, but Floyd was too busy on holidays and beating up women.

Ricky Hatton can not fight at 147, it proved in the Collazo fight. His best weight is at 140 and he also beat Malignaggi (not sure about the spelling) before he faced Pac and got brutally KOed.

Bob Arum didnt mention Floyd because he obviously does not want to fight and was in retirement/ holiday, the world apart from Floydettes know he wants no part of Pac.

Floyd just wants to keep his 0 and wants simple paydays, he already stated its not about the legacy, its about the dollars. Just look at his resume at Welter, its been rubbish considering what he fought below 135.

[tropo]

You thought it was over? Why? Because you pronounced it so?

He's recognized by some as the best boxer in the sport. Certainly not everyone.

Why not require Olympic style testing? That should be the question. Why would any clean athlete avoid it is another question which should be, and is being asked by a lot of fight fans.

You do some research yourself. The facts are in the timeline. Research done already. You should read before posting. Or are you just ignoring the facts again. Sure appears that way.

Entering the ring under the influence of any type of illegal performance enhancing stimulant is no different than a fighter using loaded gloves. You really should read more!

Please show the link where Mayweather's uncle says Oretiz is a better fighter than Floyd and stop making up you own facts. It's nothing but silly posturing and blind worship.

You misunderstand. I thought I was over replying to you in this thread.

It was in a recent interview with Roger Mayweather where he made a comment that Ortiz is a better fighter than Pacquiao.. You missed that one? Of course you did.

You just don't get anything about Mayweather.

You say, why not Olympic style testing? That's the wrong question. The question should be: Why should he take the tests?

It's pretty obvious that even Mayweather considers Pacquiao to be the best fighter in the world.

This is bascially what Mayweather is saying: "Pacquiao is too good to be true. He must be on PED's. There's no way he can be that good if he's natural. I'm not fighting him unless he takes Olympic style tests? Hopefully he won't take the tests so I won't have to fight him - I don't want to lose to a pint-sized Asian fighter - I'll be laughing stock and I'm getting too near to retirement to take that chance"

Really, instead of parroting off the same nonsense that Mayweather's clan do ad nauseam you should learn to read between the lines.

The right thing for Pacquiao to do is not take the tests. It's never going to happen anyway because Mayweather is one of the biggest cowards ever seen in professional boxing.

[bhatmasterson]

these 2 have ego's, FLoyd has one and even Manny has a big ego. Manny does not want to do his BS demands and has even agreed to them anyway, but Floyd was too busy on holidays and beating up women. Ricky Hatton can not fight at 147, it proved in the Collazo fight. His best weight is at 140 and he also beat Malignaggi (not sure about the spelling) before he faced Pac and got brutally KOed. Bob Arum didnt mention Floyd because he obviously does not want to fight and was in retirement/ holiday, the world apart from Floydettes know he wants no part of Pac. Floyd just wants to keep his 0 and wants simple paydays, he already stated its not about the legacy, its about the dollars. Just look at his resume at Welter, its been rubbish considering what he fought below 135.

WB You continue to sound like a fan boy fixated on an idol who doesn't even know you exist. You present no tangible facts just hyped up emotion, insults and a boxing IQ that's, well, I'll stay away from that one because as a fan of boxing, I have no time for that nonsense.

When are you going to get it? Nobody cares whether you like Floyd Mayweather or not! And what goes on outside the ring has nothing to do with accomplishments inside the ring. Truth be told, you can find some pretty unfaltering, outside the ring, info on Manny if you ever bothered to check. I won't mention any details but I'll just let you know that I'm not talking about his refusal to take a test that teenagers participating in the Olympic Games have been taking for years. I wonder why those athletes who compete in the Olympics don't agree with your opinion that the testing protocol B.S. Neither do the countries that they compete for and against. What's your take on that ?

Further it is unclear what test you are referring to when you say Manny has agreed to take the test. Was it the 30 day out test or the 14 day out test? Neither of those are random. If you can show where Manny has said "I'm willing to take random OST up to the fight", which has been the stipulation holding up the fight ever since Floyd beat Mosley, I'll shut up about it. But you won't be able to post a link because it just hasn't ever happened. I truly wish it had, but you're wrong to say Manny has agreed to random OST up to the fight. Prove me wrong. I've seen the videos, read the articles and probably some that you haven't seen. And why is it B.S. for a fighter to request in negotiations, random OST for both fighters and not B.S. when the other fighter counters with a requests for a 10 million dollar payment for every pound should the other come in overweight? That is just plain ridiculous and it's obvious to any sensible boxing fan that's a request which was set up to be rejected. Seems to me someone thought that's exactly what would happen but Floyd accepted it instead. If OST was a ploy on the Mayweather side, how did they know Manny's camp would refuse OST?

"Ricky Hatton can not fight at 147, it proved in the Collazo fight. His best weight is at 140 and he also beat Malignaggi (not sure about the spelling) before he faced Pac and got brutally KOed."

Okay you lost me here. What the heck do you mean Hatton can't fight at 147? This is professional prize fighting son. Floyd Mayweather was welterweight champ when Hatton moved up to challenge for the belt? So, again what do you mean Hatton can't fight at 147? If a legit fighter wants the welterweight championship belt, he fights at the appropriate weight. However, that can't be said for some modern day paper belt holders. Nobody made Hatton sign for that fight. He wanted the fight so he took it. He thought he would come out the winner and so did a lot of other people.

Now, what I believe you mean to say is that Hatton wasn't as effective at 147 as he was at a lower weight class. He didn't carry his punching power, quickness and stamina up to the higher weight. If this is what you mean, I'd agree with that observation. This is true with most all fighters who move up in weight class. That is why when a fighter seemingly does it with ease questions are raised. it's simply not normal. Ricky Hatton at 147 put up a good fight against Luis Collazo and had him down in the first round. As I've said many times, styles make fights. Hatton went on to win that one. Same as before, Hatton was not forced to fight at 147. He chose to.

Paulie Malignaggi was not brutally knocked out by Hatton. Paulie's corner threw in the towel in round 11 of that fight because it was clear he could not win the fight. Either you have a bad memory or your making up facts to suit your nonexistent case.

"Bob Arum didnt mention Floyd because he obviously does not want to fight and was in retirement/ holiday, the world apart from Floydettes know he wants no part of Pac."

No time for childish name calling. Floyd was not in the picture as a possible opponent for Manny because random OST up to the fight was not then or now acceptable to Manny/Arum.

" Floyd just wants to keep his 0 and wants simple paydays, he already stated its not about the legacy, its about the dollars. Just look at his resume at Welter, its been rubbish considering what he fought below 135."

I agree. Floyd thinks Keeping the 0 is a good thing. He doesn't want to loose against a fighter who "may be" using EPO or other enhancements. What the hell is wrong with that? He's willing to take the same test. Ortiz is taking it. Shane took it. Why can't Manny. Manny may be some kind of a boxing a god to you and may others but not to true boxing fans. To us he's just a good fighter with a savvy promoter. He's not above proving he's on an even playing field with any boxer how might challenge him.

As far as paydays are concerned, Weather you would like to admit it or not, Manny isn't in there for free. Sure he fights for his country too. But no money no fight. And it better be the right money too or still no fight. He's just as much about money as Floyd is. If you don't believe it, I've got this really tall building in Taipei that I'd like to sell you really cheap.

Your statement about Floyd's resume at welter is pretty questionable considering the fact that Manny's most touted wins lately have come against opponents that Floyd has beaten before Manny beat them. The only difference with you fan boys is that when Manny fights these guys their legit and dangerous all the sudden.

So I'll just leave it at that. Obviously you don't have much pertinent information to bring to the discussion and I'm not really into trading insults. I've posted plenty of facts here along with links to some very interesting reading. If you want to comment on any of that I'm game. If I come back and see that you've added something useful I'll respond.

[WebBangkok]

these 2 have ego's, FLoyd has one and even Manny has a big ego. Manny does not want to do his BS demands and has even agreed to them anyway, but Floyd was too busy on holidays and beating up women. Ricky Hatton can not fight at 147, it proved in the Collazo fight. His best weight is at 140 and he also beat Malignaggi (not sure about the spelling) before he faced Pac and got brutally KOed. Bob Arum didnt mention Floyd because he obviously does not want to fight and was in retirement/ holiday, the world apart from Floydettes know he wants no part of Pac. Floyd just wants to keep his 0 and wants simple paydays, he already stated its not about the legacy, its about the dollars. Just look at his resume at Welter, its been rubbish considering what he fought below 135.

WB You continue to sound like a fan boy fixated on an idol who doesn't even know you exist. You present no tangible facts just hyped up emotion, insults and a boxing IQ that's, well, I'll stay away from that one because as a fan of boxing, I have no time for that nonsense.

When are you going to get it? Nobody cares whether you like Floyd Mayweather or not! And what goes on outside the ring has nothing to do with accomplishments inside the ring. Truth be told, you can find some pretty unfaltering, outside the ring, info on Manny if you ever bothered to check. I won't mention any details but I'll just let you know that I'm not talking about his refusal to take a test that teenagers participating in the Olympic Games have been taking for years. I wonder why those athletes who compete in the Olympics don't agree with your opinion that the testing protocol B.S. Neither do the countries that they compete for and against. What's your take on that ?

Further it is unclear what test you are referring to when you say Manny has agreed to take the test. Was it the 30 day out test or the 14 day out test? Neither of those are random. If you can show where Manny has said "I'm willing to take random OST up to the fight", which has been the stipulation holding up the fight ever since Floyd beat Mosley, I'll shut up about it. But you won't be able to post a link because it just hasn't ever happened. I truly wish it had, but you're wrong to say Manny has agreed to random OST up to the fight. Prove me wrong. I've seen the videos, read the articles and probably some that you haven't seen. And why is it B.S. for a fighter to request in negotiations, random OST for both fighters and not B.S. when the other fighter counters with a requests for a 10 million dollar payment for every pound should the other come in overweight? That is just plain ridiculous and it's obvious to any sensible boxing fan that's a request which was set up to be rejected. Seems to me someone thought that's exactly what would happen but Floyd accepted it instead. If OST was a ploy on the Mayweather side, how did they know Manny's camp would refuse OST?

"Ricky Hatton can not fight at 147, it proved in the Collazo fight. His best weight is at 140 and he also beat Malignaggi (not sure about the spelling) before he faced Pac and got brutally KOed."

Okay you lost me here. What the heck do you mean Hatton can't fight at 147? This is professional prize fighting son. Floyd Mayweather was welterweight champ when Hatton moved up to challenge for the belt? So, again what do you mean Hatton can't fight at 147? If a legit fighter wants the welterweight championship belt, he fights at the appropriate weight. However, that can't be said for some modern day paper belt holders. Nobody made Hatton sign for that fight. He wanted the fight so he took it. He thought he would come out the winner and so did a lot of other people.

Now, what I believe you mean to say is that Hatton wasn't as effective at 147 as he was at a lower weight class. He didn't carry his punching power, quickness and stamina up to the higher weight. If this is what you mean, I'd agree with that observation. This is true with most all fighters who move up in weight class. That is why when a fighter seemingly does it with ease questions are raised. it's simply not normal. Ricky Hatton at 147 put up a good fight against Luis Collazo and had him down in the first round. As I've said many times, styles make fights. Hatton went on to win that one. Same as before, Hatton was not forced to fight at 147. He chose to.

Paulie Malignaggi was not brutally knocked out by Hatton. Paulie's corner threw in the towel in round 11 of that fight because it was clear he could not win the fight. Either you have a bad memory or your making up facts to suit your nonexistent case.

"Bob Arum didnt mention Floyd because he obviously does not want to fight and was in retirement/ holiday, the world apart from Floydettes know he wants no part of Pac."

No time for childish name calling. Floyd was not in the picture as a possible opponent for Manny because random OST up to the fight was not then or now acceptable to Manny/Arum.

" Floyd just wants to keep his 0 and wants simple paydays, he already stated its not about the legacy, its about the dollars. Just look at his resume at Welter, its been rubbish considering what he fought below 135."

I agree. Floyd thinks Keeping the 0 is a good thing. He doesn't want to loose against a fighter who "may be" using EPO or other enhancements. What the hell is wrong with that? He's willing to take the same test. Ortiz is taking it. Shane took it. Why can't Manny. Manny may be some kind of a boxing a god to you and may others but not to true boxing fans. To us he's just a good fighter with a savvy promoter. He's not above proving he's on an even playing field with any boxer how might challenge him.

As far as paydays are concerned, Weather you would like to admit it or not, Manny isn't in there for free. Sure he fights for his country too. But no money no fight. And it better be the right money too or still no fight. He's just as much about money as Floyd is. If you don't believe it, I've got this really tall building in Taipei that I'd like to sell you really cheap.

Your statement about Floyd's resume at welter is pretty questionable considering the fact that Manny's most touted wins lately have come against opponents that Floyd has beaten before Manny beat them. The only difference with you fan boys is that when Manny fights these guys their legit and dangerous all the sudden.

So I'll just leave it at that. Obviously you don't have much pertinent information to bring to the discussion and I'm not really into trading insults. I've posted plenty of facts here along with links to some very interesting reading. If you want to comment on any of that I'm game. If I come back and see that you've added something useful I'll respond.

First off, I am a boxing fan, not a Pac fan, he is not even my favorite fighter, but I enjoy watching him fight.

You sound like a flomo, the Mayweathers accuse him of being on roids, filo (special) roids and the rest of it. Gave Pac a 7 day cut off which Pac agreed to then all of a sudden Floyd Mayweather said he is retiring and taking time off.

You write a lot of what flomos call facts, the 10 mill per pound over was obviously to make sure Floyd does not pull what he did on JMM and come overweight on purpose, Floyd is the bigger man. But this request was a bit over the top, but as long as Floyd abides by the rules then its fine.

Why does Manny need to do these Olympic style testing while no other boxer is doing it? Ortiz, Mosley would of given one of there toes to Mayweather just to get that payday, ofcourse they agree to it. Mayweather also needs to keep making fighters agree to his new drug tests for fights because he cant back out now after saying he wants to clean the sport up..... lol

Floyd is just ducking Pac, just like he ducked Cotto, Magarito, Clottey when they were the big dogs of WW. But FLoyd opts to retire, then Pac dominates WW Floyd retires/holidays again. See a pattern here.

All the experts (apart from Teddy Atlas) agree that Mayweatehr is ducking Pac, Only flomo's and Teddy Atlas will tell you otherwise....

All real boxing fans know this, Holyifeld plus other greats have called Floyd out and telling him to stop being afraid.

I even think if the fight does happen, Floyd beats Pac as Pac can not handle great counter punches. Floyd is a great counter puncher, great defense, speed and footwork.

The only thing is that both will be on the downside of there careers when they fight.

Floyd needs to grow a par and just fight and stop with the BS already

[WebBangkok]

Edited June 29, 2011 by WebBangkok

[WebBangkok]

After Pac agreed to his 14 day cut off

[tropo]

Why does Manny need to do these Olympic style testing while no other boxer is doing it? Ortiz, Mosley would of given one of there toes to Mayweather just to get that payday, ofcourse they agree to it. Mayweather also needs to keep making fighters agree to his new drug tests for fights because he cant back out now after saying he wants to clean the sport up..... lol

I thought this would have been obvious, but bhatmasterson just doesn't get it.

Mosley and Ortiz could only dream about 2 - 5 million dollar paydays until they fought/will fight Mayweather. They would agree to anything at all for a payday like that - as you say, even a toe or two.

...and as you say, he has no choice buy to continue the charade for all his subsequent fights.

Edit: removed video which you already posted above.

I added a different video. One which goes into more detail because he's speaking his own language, allowing him to make his points more clearly. My wife is Filipino and translated it for me. If you watch his interviews in the Philippines you get a much better feel of what's really going on.

Here's a translation of a comment he made in the video:

"as long as it's not on the day of the fight because we have medical test right after the fight".

Edited June 29, 2011 by tropo

[tropo]

What does Sugar Ray Leonard have to say about Pacquiao and Mayweather:

[bhatmasterson]

You thought it was over? Why? Because you pronounced it so?

He's recognized by some as the best boxer in the sport. Certainly not everyone.

Why not require Olympic style testing? That should be the question. Why would any clean athlete avoid it is another question which should be, and is being asked by a lot of fight fans.

You do some research yourself. The facts are in the timeline. Research done already. You should read before posting. Or are you just ignoring the facts again. Sure appears that way.

Entering the ring under the influence of any type of illegal performance enhancing stimulant is no different than a fighter using loaded gloves. You really should read more!

Please show the link where Mayweather's uncle says Oretiz is a better fighter than Floyd and stop making up you own facts. It's nothing but silly posturing and blind worship.

You misunderstand. I thought I was over replying to you in this thread.

It was in a recent interview with Roger Mayweather where he made a comment that Ortiz is a better fighter than Pacquiao.. You missed that one? Of course you did.

You just don't get anything about Mayweather.

You say, why not Olympic style testing? That's the wrong question. The question should be: Why should he take the tests?

It's pretty obvious that even Mayweather considers Pacquiao to be the best fighter in the world.

This is bascially what Mayweather is saying: "Pacquiao is too good to be true. He must be on PED's. There's no way he can be that good if he's natural. I'm not fighting him unless he takes Olympic style tests? Hopefully he won't take the tests so I won't have to fight him - I don't want to lose to a pint-sized Asian fighter - I'll be laughing stock and I'm getting too near to retirement to take that chance"

Really, instead of parroting off the same nonsense that Mayweather's clan do ad nauseam you should learn to read between the lines.

The right thing for Pacquiao to do is not take the tests. It's never going to happen anyway because Mayweather is one of the biggest cowards ever seen in professional boxing.

"You just don't get anything about Mayweather."

Yes, uh, tropo,.. I believe I do get it. Just as any sensible person would. You're hung up on the fact that your guy, Pacquaio, was asked to take Olympic style testing in order to get the fight with Mayweather. That's all there is to your arguement. I've never once said Floyd is a better fighter than Manny so that's not in question.

I happen to think it's a good idea for the sport of boxing to incorporate better, more comprehensive testing and you don't, at least where Manny Pacquiao is concerned you don't. Why is that? Many of Pacquiao's fans feel the same which is not surprising. However, with the number of elite athletes who are accomplishing amazing feats of athleticism and then being caught dirty, the request for random OST is not unreasonable. Especially not in this particular fight , with so much at stake. There is simply no way, in my view, that you are able to pose an educated, let alone factual argument against the implementation of a better testing protocol in to the sport of boxing. When you try to do so you just sound ignorant and self-serving.

I've said this before and I'll say it one more time and then I'm done. Before fighters enter the ring for a fight of this magnitude there are always negotiations. Each fighter tries to have his individual demands met. Manny asked for several concessions and Floyd agreed to every one, which is really out of character for Floyd. Floyd asked for one thing, Olympic style testing up until the fight. Manny got everything he asked for but the fight fell apart because of the testing protocol, which is random Olympic style testing. Nobody came out with accusations until Manny balked at the test. Now the whole world is questioning why Manny won't test. Well, maybe not the whole world, but certainly boxing fans the world over are asking this question. Even Manny's fans want to know why he won't test. Again, if the random OST testing is a ploy or trick to give Floyd an advantage, how could Mayweather have known beforehand that Manny would refuse the test?

You say, why not Olympic style testing? That's the wrong question. The question should be: Why should he take the tests?

He should take the test in order to make the fight happen and prove to boxing fans he's clean. He's only bringing more suspicion upon himself by refusing to do so. Why would any athlete who's clean not want to test?

It's pretty obvious that even Mayweather considers Pacquiao to be the best fighter in the world.

I can't agree, and you should learn how to finish a sentence when you are stating your opinion. It would help make what you say sound more in the realm of reality. Every boxing fan knows that Mayweather has no problem letting the world know that he feels he's the best boxer to ever lace up pair of boxing gloves.

"Pacquiao is too good to be true. He must be on PED's. There's no way he can be that good if he's natural. I'm not fighting him unless he takes Olympic style tests? Hopefully he won't take the tests so I won't have to fight him - I don't want to lose to a pint-sized Asian fighter - I'll be laughing stock and I'm getting too near to retirement to take that chance"

Ignorant statement. A child would be able to see the folly in what you've written here. If the situation were reversed and Floyd refused to test........I don't even need to go into what the backlash would be like. When athletes today achieve hights in their particular sports that seem questionable, questions will be raised. Weather it's running, jumping, hitting a baseball or riding a bicycle. If you don't know what feats of athletisism are in question concerning the sport of boxing and Manny Pacquaio, then you are not a true fan of the sport.

Really, instead of parroting off the same nonsense that Mayweather's clan do ad nauseam you should learn to read between the lines.

"Nonsense", tropo, is all I've read from you on the topic of the pros and cons of random Olympic style drug testing in the sport of boxing. Complete nonsense.

By "Read between the lines," I assume you mean I should be able to look at the situation and view it the same way you do. No way will that happen. That would mean I'd have to remain ignorant to the facts even when they're presented to me clearly, which makes no sense whatever. I'm not parroting the Mayweather clan. I'm simply putting into my own words what many in the boxing world agree with. So, you don't agree. No Problem. The world would be a pretty boring place if everyone agreed on everything all the time.

I have nothing further to say to you regarding this particular issue. I do agree agree with you on "Ad nauseam," however.

[tropo]

I have nothing further to say to you regarding this particular issue. I do agree agree with you on "Ad nauseam," however.

That's really good news. I thought you'd already given up as we hadn't heard from you in a while. Obviously you were just busy composing another 1000+ word epic response. You could learn a lesson here - less is more when it comes to debates on an Internet forum. Most people, including myself usually skip over long-winded essays.

[bhatmasterson]

I have nothing further to say to you regarding this particular issue. I do agree agree with you on "Ad nauseam," however.

That's really good news. I thought you'd already given up as we hadn't heard from you in a while. Obviously you were just busy composing another 1000+ word epic response. You could learn a lesson here - less is more when it comes to debates on an Internet forum. Most people, including myself usually skip over long-winded essays.

I was making an effort to be polite with my responses. No doubt, if I came right out and said what I really think of your logic it would sound rather harsh. That would be inflammatory and also unnecessary.

Do you actually read while taking the time to count words? One thousand words? I had no idea. Last time I checked this thread had over two thousand reads so apparently some people do bother to actually read instead of count.

There you go. That's pretty short isn't it?

[tropo]

I was making an effort to be polite with my responses. No doubt, if I came right out and said what I really think of your logic it would sound rather harsh. That would be inflammatory and also unnecessary.

Do you actually read while taking the time to count words? One thousand words? I had no idea. Last time I checked this thread had over two thousand reads so apparently some people do bother to actually read instead of count.

There you go. That's pretty short isn't it?

We're still going here?

If "I came right out and said what I really think of your logic it would sound rather harsh" too. I've been about as polite as I can be.

Count words? No, just paste them into a word processor for an instant count. One of you posts went over 1100. If you could condense your arguments a bit instead of waffling so much, it would certainly help.