Israel considers supporting Palestinian state under right conditions

[coma]

Why should Palestine have to gain Israeli approval for how it wants to be governed. Would Isreal accept being told how to govern itself?

I would think Palestine would be more interested in self determination and acknowledgement by the UN.

Because

1. Israel is allegedly occupying Palestinian land

2. Peace Agreement is with Israel NOT another nation

3. Governance of Palestine has a direct effect on Israel and its people

4. Palestine does not have even a half decent track record of sticking to agreements

5. Terrorist from Palestine(ie Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Fatah El Brigades) constantly attack Israeli civilians and if Palestinian government unable to deal with them, someone has to.

6. Because 1/2 of the government wants borders of 1967 and East Jerusalem, while the other one wants Pre-1967 and all of Jerusalem

7. Because if the government does not recognize its neighbor, why would Israel sign any peace treaty or give any allowance.

8. Because Palestine gets money from Israel(taxes collected from Israeli Arabs)

But you only responded to half the question. Would Israel accept being told how to govern itself. They don't even follow UN resolutions.

A shame this is all about Israel getting what it wants but never about Palestine getting what it needs.

Israel is not the one with a charter which seeks destruction of another state. While you may not like how Israel responds to terror attacks, Israel certainly does not seek to push all the arabs and palestinians into the sea(unlike Hamas)

You also need to keep in mind, that UN resolutions are never ever followed by Hamas and PA, just like all the agreements are broken. I can understand that you want Israel to be above that, but being rational does not always work in that part of the world.

As you can see, israel has very very simple demands-stop the violence and attacks and but even something as simple as that can not be followed.

Palestine will get what they want once they stop the violence and recognize Israel, but then again what is it that they want? 1967 borders? or pre 1967 borders? East Jerusalem or all of Jerusalem?

What is their plan of action on how to implement the borders and patrol it.

Change the record Kuffki. You are so boring with your over stated statements. Got anything new to bad mouth the Palestinians about? That would be interesting.

[coma]

You might have been right before Hamas and the PLO joined forces, but now the US will veto any UN Bill to mandate a Palestinian state as long as the Hamas terrorists refuse to make peace.

Many countries such as , France,U.K, Indonesia etc etc will recognize the Palestinian State without the UN mandate. The bill on the Iraq invasion was vetoed but that didn't stop it going ahead.

[Ulysses G.]

Got anything new to bad mouth the Palestinians about? That would be interesting.

Did he mention that the PLO just joined forces with the terrorists of Hamas and that it lost them a lot of International support?

Edited May 7, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

Many countries such as , France,U.K, Indonesia etc etc will recognize the Palestinian State without the UN mandate.

Well Indonesia anyway, but what does it really matter? It is useless without a UN mandate.

[Steely Dan]

You might have been right before Hamas and the PLO joined forces, but now the US will veto any UN Bill to mandate a Palestinian state as long as the Hamas terrorists refuse to make peace.

Many countries such as , France,U.K, Indonesia etc etc will recognize the Palestinian State without the UN mandate. The bill on the Iraq invasion was vetoed but that didn't stop it going ahead.

Time will tell, I think you have made an assertion based on your oppinion no more. The French were quick to back track when the Palestinian authority announced the supposed French intention to do so.

[kuffki]

You might have been right before Hamas and the PLO joined forces, but now the US will veto any UN Bill to mandate a Palestinian state as long as the Hamas terrorists refuse to make peace.

Many countries such as , France,U.K, Indonesia etc etc will recognize the Palestinian State without the UN mandate. The bill on the Iraq invasion was vetoed but that didn't stop it going ahead.

Time will tell, I think you have made an assertion based on your oppinion no more. The French were quick to back track when the Palestinian authority announced the supposed French intention to do so.

Well this is what UK had to say on the matter

Britain: Israel's right to exist not up for discussion or compromise

The British government is 'firmly opposed' to any body that seeks to delegitimize or Israel or boycott it, Hague tells conference marking 60 years of diplomatic ties.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/britain-israel-s-right-to-exist-not-up-for-discussion-or-compromise-1.353068

[Ulysses G.]

And Hamas will not recognize Israel's right to exist.

[coma]

Many countries such as , France,U.K, Indonesia etc etc will recognize the Palestinian State without the UN mandate.

Well Indonesia anyway, but what does it really matter? It is useless without a UN mandate.

Yes. Indonesia. The most populated Muslim country in the world. 220 million of them.

[kuffki]

Many countries such as , France,U.K, Indonesia etc etc will recognize the Palestinian State without the UN mandate.

Well Indonesia anyway, but what does it really matter? It is useless without a UN mandate.

Yes. Indonesia. The most populated Muslim country in the world. 220 million of them.

In that case perhaps China or India be better, they have a cool billion of people each

[coma]

I have already stated my opinion on what will happen to Hamas. And it is a very plausable opinion also. Hamas are old news in Palestine. It seems that some people just don't like the idea of the Palestinians getting a homeland.Period. I do however agree with one post that I think references Hamas and what a differant animal it will be as an undergound terrorist organisation as opposed to a rogue government. At least now we can communicate and deal with them and hold them accountable for thier actions to some extent. Once the Palestinian oust them, then they may indeed go underground, which again IMO would be alot less dersirable for Israel.

[coma]

Many countries such as , France,U.K, Indonesia etc etc will recognize the Palestinian State without the UN mandate.

Well Indonesia anyway, but what does it really matter? It is useless without a UN mandate.

Yes. Indonesia. The most populated Muslim country in the world. 220 million of them.

In that case perhaps China or India be better, they have a cool billion of people each

Yes. But they are not muslims. Indonesia has a muslim population of 22o million. Anyhow I believe China is also keen of Palestinian independence.

www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=67700

Edited May 7, 2011 by coma

[kuffki]

Yes. But they are not muslims. Indonesia has a muslim population of 22o million. Anyhow I believe China is also keen of Palestinian independence.

What is the relevance for recognition if muslim or not?

If it is of such importance, why has not Indonesia already recognized it?

Not sure where you get your information from, but Indonesia supports Palestine push for independence. I could not find any reference stating Indonesia will recognize Palestine or the time frame

Indonesia supports Palestine's push for independence

The Indonesian ambassador to Jordan and Palestine on Tuesday said that Indonesia supports Palestine's move to declare independence later this year, Antara news agency reported.

Ambassador Zainulbahar Noor said Indonesia 'fully supports' the move, making reference to Indonesia's constitution, which states that independence is the right of every nation, as the Palestinian government plans to declare the country's independence later in the summer.

http://wireupdate.co...r-independence/

But then again speaking about Indonesia and its stands on independence, its the very same country that invaded and occupied East Timor in 1975 and declared it Indonesia's 27th province the following year.

[kuffki]

Yes. But they are not muslims. Indonesia has a muslim population of 22o million. Anyhow I believe China is also keen of Palestinian independence.

www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=67700

Not sure if you read the links you post, but it clearly states the following

"Chinese Deputy Foreign Minister Zhia Jun told Asharq Al-Awsat in a statement, "China is prepared to renew its recognition of a Palestinian state if the UN Security Council or the United Nations pass such a resolution."

[Ulysses G.]

I have already stated my opinion on what will happen to Hamas. And it is a very plausable opinion also.

If you say so.

It seems that some people just don't like the idea of the Palestinians getting a homeland. Period.

How do you come to that conclusion? Every pro-Israel poster that I can remember has said that when they SIGN A PEACE TREATY they should get a homeland.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Jai Dee]

Some petty bickering has been deleted from this topic.

Please keep the discussions civil.

[Steely Dan]

I have already stated my opinion on what will happen to Hamas. And it is a very plausable opinion also. Hamas are old news in Palestine. It seems that some people just don't like the idea of the Palestinians getting a homeland.Period. I do however agree with one post that I think references Hamas and what a differant animal it will be as an undergound terrorist organisation as opposed to a rogue government. At least now we can communicate and deal with them and hold them accountable for thier actions to some extent. Once the Palestinian oust them, then they may indeed go underground, which again IMO would be alot less dersirable for Israel.

Hamas are spawned from the Egyptian Muslim brotherhood so I would not be so sure that even the majority of Palestinians could oust them if their parent organization didn't desire it. Extremists may get into power initially by the ballot box, but are far less likely to relinquish power by the same means - Look how Ahmedinajad fixed the Iranian election then crushed the subsequent protests.

As for Indonesian support for a Palestinian state - need you be reminded that East Timor was a proportionally greater genocide than Pol Pot managed so I would not give their oppinion any weight.

[coma]

Time to face facts fellas and I know you don't like it. But Palestine will have its own state very soon. And yes is is going to come at a cost to Israel. And so it should. Reason being is that that Israel took so much away from the Palestinian in the past that now, today they will have to return it. And that very thought ALONE is what eats away at Israel badly. And a few posters here too I have notice. Good at taking but not so good at giving. It is a differant feeling when one is to lose as oppossed to gaining.

Deny it all you want. But educated people know that the establishment of a Palestinian State is imminent. I suggest some start getting used to it and stop bitching about it every time a bit of news comes out about pro Palestinain independence. Go take you clear frustration out some where more appropriate.

[coma]

I have already stated my opinion on what will happen to Hamas. And it is a very plausable opinion also. Hamas are old news in Palestine. It seems that some people just don't like the idea of the Palestinians getting a homeland.Period. I do however agree with one post that I think references Hamas and what a differant animal it will be as an undergound terrorist organisation as opposed to a rogue government. At least now we can communicate and deal with them and hold them accountable for thier actions to some extent. Once the Palestinian oust them, then they may indeed go underground, which again IMO would be alot less dersirable for Israel.

Hamas are spawned from the Egyptian Muslim brotherhood so I would not be so sure that even the majority of Palestinians could oust them if their parent organization didn't desire it. Extremists may get into power initially by the ballot box, but are far less likely to relinquish power by the same means - Look how Ahmedinajad fixed the Iranian election then crushed the subsequent protests.

As for Indonesian support for a Palestinian state - need you be reminded that East Timor was a proportionally greater genocide than Pol Pot managed so I would not give their oppinion any weight.

Trust me. I don't need reminding about anything to do with E.T.

Edited May 7, 2011 by coma

[kuffki]

Time to face facts fellas and I know you don't like it. But Palestine will have its own state very soon. And yes is is going to come at a cost to Israel. And so it should. Reason being is that that Israel took so much away from the Palestinian in the past that now, today they will have to return it. And that very thought ALONE is what eats away at Israel badly. And a few posters here too I have notice. Good at taking but not so good at giving. It is a differant feeling when one is to lose as oppossed to gaining.

Deny it all you want. But educated people know that the establishment of a Palestinian State is imminent. I suggest some start getting used to it and stop bitching about it every time a bit of news comes out about pro Palestinain independence. Go take you clear frustration out some where more appropriate.

Would you kindly tell us where that "some where more appropriate is"??

I am sure your opinion is the only one that counts(in your mind anyway) no matter how uninformed or ridiculous it sounds, BUT is there any reason why you can not answer any of the questions put to you in earlier posts?

You have made the posts and derived conclusions from it, yet when questioned about it-you can not answer it?

Edited May 7, 2011 by kuffki

[kuffki]

I have already stated my opinion on what will happen to Hamas. And it is a very plausable opinion also. Hamas are old news in Palestine. It seems that some people just don't like the idea of the Palestinians getting a homeland.Period. I do however agree with one post that I think references Hamas and what a differant animal it will be as an undergound terrorist organisation as opposed to a rogue government. At least now we can communicate and deal with them and hold them accountable for thier actions to some extent. Once the Palestinian oust them, then they may indeed go underground, which again IMO would be alot less dersirable for Israel.

Hamas are spawned from the Egyptian Muslim brotherhood so I would not be so sure that even the majority of Palestinians could oust them if their parent organization didn't desire it. Extremists may get into power initially by the ballot box, but are far less likely to relinquish power by the same means - Look how Ahmedinajad fixed the Iranian election then crushed the subsequent protests.

As for Indonesian support for a Palestinian state - need you be reminded that East Timor was a proportionally greater genocide than Pol Pot managed so I would not give their oppinion any weight.

Trust me. I don't need reminding about anything to do with E.T.

You do not need reminders about Palestine, you do not need reminders about Iran, now you do not need reminders about East Timor and yet you know nothing about neither of them, nor able to have "decent" debate on any matter.

Posting links without even reading them REALLY does not help your course!

[Jai Dee]

There is still baiting and petty bickering going on... and there is more than one offender.

If you guys cannot remain civil without resorting to this kind of behaviour, all of you will be risking potential suspension from the forum and/or revokation of posting rights.

Last public warning.

[Steely Dan]

Here's a good article about the Palestinian love-in.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/6914759/the-hamasal-qaedafatah-axis.thtml

Yesterday, the PA’s ruling Fatah party signed the unity accord it reached last week with Hamas. This pact has been hailed by the west’s useful idiots as ushering in peace in our time. What it will more likely usher in, however, is Hamastan in Ramallah – linked to both Iran and al Qaeda. For contrary to the useful idiots’ belief that Fatah will swallow Hamas, Hamas will swallow Fatah.