Difficulties In Coming Up With Id Validation Docs For Offshore Account Opening

[partington]

More of a warning or alert than a question, though I'd like to know if anyone has solved the validation document requirement for offshore accounts while living in a condo over here.

I'm a UK expat, and ever since Barclaycard sent me a warning that they don't allow non-UK residents to have accounts I've been a bit worried that this requirement might also be extended to my absolutely essential onshore Barclays current (= checking in US) account.

Of course I changed my addresses on both B'card and B'Bank to sibling's house in UK instantly to try to avert this. Turns out I was right and the Know Your Customer regulations for UK banks are now causing many to shut down accounts for customers who don't have a UK address, even if they have previously been customers in the UK for many years. It's apparently being applied inconsistently within and between banks: it's been described as a "lottery" as to whether you will be permitted to keep your account open after leaving the UK !

[see here for article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/offshorefinance/8193761/Banks-have-lottery-style-approach-to-expats-who-want-to-retain-UK-bank-accounts.html]

Although I've got a UK address listed so should be OK, I'm still concerned as links in that article describe how some banks are starting to freeze accounts if they see too many foreign transactions in or out, as it's 'suspicious'. It would be an absolute disaster if my UK bank froze or closed my account for too many Thailand transfers as it's currently my only option for direct debit payments in and out within the UK, and that's my only source of income

So I was thinking of trying to set up a back-up account, and have actually been prodded into doing something by something else: Bradford and Bingley Offshore ( IOM) just announced they're closing all existing internet savings accounts in June, and of course I have more than £50k in one of these, so need to find a new home for this cash. B+B try to encourage you to transfer it to one of the other Santander brand names that replaced B+B : Alliance Leicester/Abbey National Offshore et al. Of course they won't just transfer your money to the account of your choice; that would be too easy! They make you reapply with a fresh submission of all the ID validation/anti-money laundering documentation that you've already given them as if it's a completely new account.

So that being the case I thought maybe it's time to open an offshore current account, that I can do true banking with, instead of another savings account. Then if the Barclays account were to be suddenly withdrawn I'd have an alternative account for my UK rent and bond income to be paid into, allowing me to continue to eat, drink and survive over here.

But here's the thing, researching online, they all want sets of documents which I can't completely provide (actual banking accounts rather than savings accounts seem to be more stringent in their requirements):

1. certified passport copy --OK fine

2. proof of address with name (eg gas bill, water bill, electricity bill, credit card bill -some want two of these!) -- No have! Kasikorn doesn't give me a credit card, and I'm renting a condo--so water and electricity bills don't have my name on them, only address. Don't have cable TV. So I have only one bill with my name and address on it -True internet -it's all in Thai except my name. LLoyds TSB directly say internet/mobile bills not acceptable, and HSBC say docs must be in english.OK I could get a translation, and hope they accept it but in addition HSBC also demand

3.a current bank statement--No have! Kasikorn don't do statements (all banks specify print outs of web pages are not acceptable documents). My UK bank statements have a UK address on them, so no good as I'm claiming not to be a UK resident, (and I don't actually have any as I signed up for edelivery). Several other banks also specify they want a current bank statement (and two want proof of regular income like pension or salary neither of which I have) .

Of course I'll call them and see if I can sort something out , but at first glance it seems like I won't be able to muster up enough for a proper offshore banking account. I'll just have to hope like hell that my UK onshore doesn't get screwed up.

Really it seems like banks are now making it almost impossible to move from one country to another and still have access to your own money. They make everything so horrendously difficult!

Well I should say for people like me whose income is about £20000 a year - if I was a cheating fraudulent filthy rich banker of course they would be falling over themselves to facilitate my international crimes.....

ah well, whine over..

cheers

[muratremix]

Why not get some papers from your old country (UK) to prove your address all in ENGLISH and open an offshore bank account in Singapore or Hong Kong?

They will accept bank statement from your UK bank, which is better than Thai bank.

[Naam]

proof of address with name (eg gas bill, water bill, electricity bill, credit card bill -some want two of these!) -- No have! Kasikorn doesn't give me a credit card, and I'm renting a condo--so water and electricity bills don't have my name on them, only address. Don't have cable TV. So I have only one bill with my name and address on it -True internet -it's all in Thai except my name. LLoyds TSB directly say internet/mobile bills not acceptable, and HSBC say docs must be in english.

assuming you live in Thailand based on retirement visa get the so-called "residence letter" from immigration which is now available in English too.

[AyG]

You can get a letter from the British Embassy which certifies your address and is acceptable to most banks. The letter is quite expensive - about GBP 25 from memory - and actually states that you have said you live at the address, and the embassy doesn't know anything to the contrary. Why banks accept this, I just don't know, but they do.

[AyG]

Banks will also usually accept correspondence from HMRC as proof of address. You could ask HMRC to send you details of your tax code, for example, just to get a document.

If you also have a UK address, you can open an account with the UK information, then change the address to Thailand. (I did this with Northern Rock - though they're now out of the offshore banking business.)

Incidentally, rather than go with Santander which now has a pretty dreadful reputation for service, consider one of the alternatives such as Nationwide International.

[Naam]

British Embassy

sure! why the easy way getting the residence certified by a local immigration office? it must be much more fun to travel (perhaps a few hundred kilometers) to Bangkok, doing it the complicated way and pay a multiple of the fees.

[theoldgit]

You can get a letter from the British Embassy which certifies your address and is acceptable to most banks. The letter is quite expensive - about GBP 25 from memory - and actually states that you have said you live at the address, and the embassy doesn't know anything to the contrary. Why banks accept this, I just don't know, but they do.

The British Embassy charge £45, well actually 2340 Baht, which is a tad over £47 at the current rate, though like you I wonder why the banks accept them.

[Crossy]

Whilst slightly off-topic (as I maintain a UK address [parents actually]), I was more than slightly surprised when I managed to open a Lloyds TSB Offshore (IOM) account without providing ANY ID confirmation.

They sent me a sample signature form by email which I couriered back to them, but, confused by the lack of ID requirements to be included with it I called them. Apparently the system knew about me and they were happy I was who I said I was, odd as I've never held a Lloyds or TSB account, ever.

[theoldgit]

British Embassy

sure! why the easy way getting the residence certified by a local immigration office? it must be much more fun to travel (perhaps a few hundred kilometers) to Bangkok, doing it the complicated way and pay a multiple of the fees.

But Nam, you forget that we are Brits and must all do our bit to ensure that our local consular officials are able to continue to live in the manner to which they are accustomed.

[theoldgit]

Banks will also usually accept correspondence from HMRC as proof of address. You could ask HMRC to send you details of your tax code, for example, just to get a document.

Incidentally, rather than go with Santander which now has a pretty dreadful reputation for service, consider one of the alternatives such as Nationwide International.

That's a good point about the HMRC, I wonder if a letter from from the DWP might also surfice or indeed a letter from my Civil Service Pension providers.

I am in the process of opening an account with Nationwide International in the IOM.

[PattayaParent]

One time I received a letter from a bank asking for proof of address with one of the acceptable forms of proof being a letter from a bank.

So I sent them their own letter back.

You're mistake was in resorting to a UK address instead of just closing the accounts and transferring them offshore at the time.

One way I was successful with before was to get a lawyer to write a confirmation letter to the bank stating that they have seen proof of my address and it is..............................

The lawyer did this because they told me that the UK banks will not accept the Thai Immigration letter of residence, which I had gone to them with for translation.

[sarahsbloke]

Don't ship money direct from your UK bank, use someone like HiFx to transfer your money, they are based in the UK (cost's slightly more than a straight SWIFT but way less than ATM) and take payment by Direct Debit, Bank transfer or Credit Card.

Proof of address in Thailand

1) Ask the bank you wish to open an account with to write to your address in Thailand, a copy of that letter is acceptable as 1 proof of address.

2) ToT or 3BB internet invoice

3) Certificate of residency from Thai immigration office (about 500bht)

Edited May 9, 2011 by sarahsbloke

[billd766]

British Embassy

sure! why the easy way getting the residence certified by a local immigration office? it must be much more fun to travel (perhaps a few hundred kilometers) to Bangkok, doing it the complicated way and pay a multiple of the fees.

But Nam, you forget that we are Brits and must all do our bit to ensure that our local consular officials are able to continue to live in the manner to which they are accustomed.

I am old enough (I think) to remember the times when the British Embassies actually did help British citizens.

[Paul888]

Kasikorn DO issue paper statements on request.

You can request them at a branch. It takes about a week to 10 days and they are sent to the registered address on the account.

[Naam]

British Embassy

sure! why the easy way getting the residence certified by a local immigration office? it must be much more fun to travel (perhaps a few hundred kilometers) to Bangkok, doing it the complicated way and pay a multiple of the fees.

But Nam, you forget that we are Brits and must all do our bit to ensure that our local consular officials are able to continue to live in the manner to which they are accustomed.

i apologise. you have a valid point and i stand corrected

[partington]

Kasikorn DO issue paper statements on request.

You can request them at a branch. It takes about a week to 10 days and they are sent to the registered address on the account.

Paul888--Great! very useful and to me most relevant bit of info- I'll hop out and see if Kasikorn will do this right now! Frankly I feel it is easier to send the validation documents that the banks actually specify than something they don't list: a bank letter or fixed utility bill seem universal requirements for proof of address. Note this is not just proof just that you live in Thailand, but proof of a genuine fixed correspondence address.

theoldgit---Possible option , but at very least I'd have to ring the offshore bank and check before paying £50 for the British Embassy to write a letter saying "X says that he lives here, and we don't know that he doesn't" -Blimey, even I wouldn't accept that as a proof of address from my own grandmother...

Pattaya parent--thanks ! Seems like your experience is that banks won't accept the Thai residence letter either, again doesn't surprise me because it's not actually proof of your fixed address as you could tell them anything.

Though with respect, I think you are quite wrong that it is a mistake to keep a UK bank account open rather than close it. This was a deliberate intention and essential for me because I have rental and investment income and flat upkeep/maintenance bills to pay, all in the UK. All expat finance websites advised, and still advise, you to keep a UK bank account open when you leave , for this reason and because if your future plans are not fixed and you ever come back to the UK ( and while I like it here in my 50s, I'm not convinced I'll be here in my 60s quite yet...) you can experience extraordinary difficulties even opening a new account, never mind getting credit cards, mortgages etc if you have no recent history, are not on the electoral roll and so on.

It is only the recent change in banking regulations (that the banks seem to be interpreting randomly if you read the article) that has made this difficult to do. But for me it was essential, intentional, what all reputable financial expat sites advised, and not a mistake.

My back up account was the B+B offshore I did open before I left, but as I said they just eliminated that account with four weeks warning, leaving me with ID difficulties that I have now but didn't then.

AyG-- HMRC good suggestion too, although it might take a bit of time as I got them to send correspondence to a c/o address in the UK (sibling's) as I was " travelling", so it will take a few weeks to change address and get letter back and I haven't got that long before B+B eliminate my account. Still I'll do this as well.

Note my UK address can't be used as an address to open accounts from-I'm not listed on electoral roll there, I have no bills to there etc etc...so all the things they would need -don't have, it's just my sister's house!

Thanks for the suggestions -there's at least two options I can start following up right now!

cheers

Edited May 9, 2011 by partington

[partington]

Kasikorn DO issue paper statements on request.

You can request them at a branch. It takes about a week to 10 days and they are sent to the registered address on the account.

Paul888

quick question--can they do the statement in English do you know?

cheers

[PattayaParent]

Partington, I was advised the opposite when I became and expat, there's never been anything to stop you having an offshore account say with Barclays International, or the offshore branch of any High St. bank and you would still have access to UK credit cards, mortgages, standing orders, payment receipts, etc. and you won't have to worry about not being able to open an account onshore in the future as you can continue to operate the offshore account.

In following the 'expert advice' you received you now have a problem. In following the 'expert advice' I received I have not had a problem in 30+ years, even with the current changes in banking business.

Don't you have bank statements or credit card bills to your sisters address that you can use as proof of address for a new account for now?

[theoldgit]

theoldgit---Possible option , but at very least I'd have to ring the offshore bank and check before paying £50 for the British Embassy to write a letter saying "X says that he lives here, and we don't know that he doesn't" -Blimey, even I wouldn't accept that as a proof of address from my own grandmother...

Actually it wasn't my idea, you will note from my response that I wondered why the banks would accept them.

You can get a letter from the British Embassy which certifies your address and is acceptable to most banks. The letter is quite expensive - about GBP 25 from memory - and actually states that you have said you live at the address, and the embassy doesn't know anything to the contrary. Why banks accept this, I just don't know, but they do.

The British Embassy charge £45, well actually 2340 Baht, which is a tad over £47 at the current rate, though like you I wonder why the banks accept them.

I am going through the same process myself, after HBOS closed my accounts when I foolishly told them I was living in Thailand. Even though I'm retired and don't have a work permit, I have managed to blag a Thai Credit Card, and the statement address is written in English, so I can use that. I also have letters from the Premium Bond Offfice, my Civil Service Pension payers as well as the State Pension Office, so I can use them as well.

[sarahsbloke]

Just a thought here, and a bit off topic

If you had an overdraft of say 15,000UKP, would they still want to close your account?

What if you claimed you couldn't pay it back immediately, but maybe over the next 5 years .........

[theoldgit]

Just a thought here, and a bit off topic

If you had an overdraft of say 15,000UKP, would they still want to close your account?

What if you claimed you couldn't pay it back immediately, but maybe over the next 5 years .........

I suspect there are a number of people in that position throughout the world.

[theoldgit]

Just a thought here, and a bit off topic

If you had an overdraft of say 15,000UKP, would they still want to close your account?

What if you claimed you couldn't pay it back immediately, but maybe over the next 5 years .........

I suspect there are a number of people in that position throughout the world.

[partington]

Partington, I was advised the opposite when I became and expat, there's never been anything to stop you having an offshore account say with Barclays International, or the offshore branch of any High St. bank and you would still have access to UK credit cards, mortgages, standing orders, payment receipts, etc. and you won't have to worry about not being able to open an account onshore in the future as you can continue to operate the offshore account.

In following the 'expert advice' you received you now have a problem. In following the 'expert advice' I received I have not had a problem in 30+ years, even with the current changes in banking business.

Don't you have bank statements or credit card bills to your sisters address that you can use as proof of address for a new account for now?

Yes fair enough point. I don't think I'm going to be here 30 years though so the likelihood of UK return influenced my thinking more than yours probably. More significantly without going into a lot of boring detail I spent most of the last decade in the US, thus making it impossible to freely open an offshore current account, because they wouldn't accept US applications..

About your second point-forgive me if I've misunderstood but I don't think I can open an offshore account with a UK offshore bank with a UK address, can I? I thought they were for UK non-residents (but I may be not up to date about this?)

[partington]

theoldgit---Possible option , but at very least I'd have to ring the offshore bank and check before paying £50 for the British Embassy to write a letter saying "X says that he lives here, and we don't know that he doesn't" -Blimey, even I wouldn't accept that as a proof of address from my own grandmother...

Actually it wasn't my idea, you will note from my response that I wondered why the banks would accept them.

You can get a letter from the British Embassy which certifies your address and is acceptable to most banks. The letter is quite expensive - about GBP 25 from memory - and actually states that you have said you live at the address, and the embassy doesn't know anything to the contrary. Why banks accept this, I just don't know, but they do.

The British Embassy charge £45, well actually 2340 Baht, which is a tad over £47 at the current rate, though like you I wonder why the banks accept them.

I am going through the same process myself, after HBOS closed my accounts when I foolishly told them I was living in Thailand. Even though I'm retired and don't have a work permit, I have managed to blag a Thai Credit Card, and the statement address is written in English, so I can use that. I also have letters from the Premium Bond Offfice, my Civil Service Pension payers as well as the State Pension Office, so I can use them as well.

Yes sorry, lost track of who said what.

As an update I just went out to my KBank branch in BKK to try to get the written statement Paul888 mentioned above, and had one of those delightful, but slightly worrying interactions with two charming and friendly customer service assistants.

Me (smiling happily): Can you send me a written statement of my account?

They ( consulting each other delightfully with English language tips): Oh Sir, you have private account, we only send statements to business accounts. You have to order it in a Branch!

Me (still smiling but baffled, thinking that I had just done that with my opening sentence): Oh! Oh! er OK can I order one now then ?

They (delighted): Oh yes Sir!

They then got out a little form '6 month or 3 month statement sir?' scribbled on it , got me to sign it . Then OK you come back in three days sir!

Me: OH er what, don't you post it to me?

They: no cannot , you must come in three days to pick it up!

Me: But it has to have my address on it! I need it to show my address! Will it have my address written on it??

They: (big smiles) oh yes Sir!

Me: (thinking they are just saying yes to be friendly and positive without really knowing) Are you sure? Can you really not just post it to my address?

They: (almost surreally happy now) Cannot, Sir!

So I'm not certain 100% that this will feature my address. However if it does, and I can get my True internet bill translated at some place in Wireless Road (hopefully for a price that doesn't turn out to be prohibitive) I might be more than halfway to my offshore account

Am about to send letter to HMRC informing of Thai address and asking some question that will prompt a reply too, just in case (actually earn so little rent in UK they asked me to stop bothering with tax forms several years ago so am not a tax payer, so can't really think of a question right now..)

cheers all

[12DrinkMore]

Ah yes, we're dealing the those Wunch of Bankers, the centre of International Finance, the Great UK, and in particular that Square Mile of Sovereign Destroyers.

We are led to believe that the UK is an international banking centre, whereas, in fact, my local branches of the Bangkok Bank and SCB provide a far better service. The UK is not about providing services to us paupers, but more about the wonderful world of "International Finance" and all those CDA's and CDO's and all the other three letter <deleted> instruments that have fuc_ked us up.

I do not believe that there is any law against a UK based bank providing banking services to foreign based expats. It is some internal bank policy, decided by the parochial morons running the banks. "You have to move to our "Offshore Bank".

And regarding that lot at the UK embassy, somewhere on TV there is an eloquent post along the lines that the UK embassy is certainly NOT here to help UK citizens, which it seems to deem as the "unwashed and unwanted", but far more to provide a party service for the personal in the name of promoting UK industry. Never forget that YOUR elected government is there to SCREW YOU.

Now, all this "know your customer" bullshit is about "money laundering". However, a bunch of jobsworthies have jump on the "Gis a job" wagon, and decided that in order to prove they have a job, all accounts must be periodically verified. This is also bullshit, as it is not the regulators demanding this, it is merely the jobsworthies proving they have a job to do. For example I have one account in the UK that for years no money has gone in or out of. This is obviously blatant money laundering, as every two years the <deleted> insist on "proof of address" by making me send a statement from another bank. What a <deleted> joke, 80 quid in an account just to hold it open and I have to jump through the loop.

Jobsworthies extreme.

[electau]

You can get a letter from the British Embassy which certifies your address and is acceptable to most banks. The letter is quite expensive - about GBP 25 from memory - and actually states that you have said you live at the address, and the embassy doesn't know anything to the contrary. Why banks accept this, I just don't know, but they do.

It is a legal document issued by the British Embassy and you are reponsible for the information contained in it. That is why it is accepted.

[PattayaParent]

Am about to send letter to HMRC informing of Thai address and asking some question that will prompt a reply too, just in case (actually earn so little rent in UK they asked me to stop bothering with tax forms several years ago so am not a tax payer, so can't really think of a question right now..)

cheers all

Write asking about your pension credits and asking for a pension forecast, then at least you also get useful info.

Regarding the offshore account with a UK address, you used to be able to open one, but that may have all changed now?

[ExpatJ]

If you have an HSBC premier account anywhere in the world- they will open an offshore account for you in Singapore in a couple of days- NO documents required- i just did it myself and was surprised how easy it was.

[Paul888]

quick question--can they do the statement in English do you know?

cheers

The one they did for me was in Thai. I didn't ask if English was possible, was just happy to get ANYTHING !

[Soutpeel]

If you have an HSBC premier account anywhere in the world- they will open an offshore account for you in Singapore in a couple of days- NO documents required- i just did it myself and was surprised how easy it was.

You can open an offshore account in Singapore with any of the majors ie Citibank, HSBC, Standard Chartered very easily with or without a "premier" account provided you are not a US citizen...

In fact, Citibank can can virtually be done on-line and only requirement is providing a certified copy of your passport and a deposit amount of US$ 25k and receive your ATM card by return post...