Difficulties In Coming Up With Id Validation Docs For Offshore Account Opening

[ExpatJ]

If you have an HSBC premier account anywhere in the world- they will open an offshore account for you in Singapore in a couple of days- NO documents required- i just did it myself and was surprised how easy it was.

You can open an offshore account in Singapore with any of the majors ie Citibank, HSBC, Standard Chartered very easily with or without a "premier" account provided you are not a US citizen...

In fact, Citibank can can virtually be done on-line and only requirement is providing a certified copy of your passport and a deposit amount of US$ 25k and receive your ATM card by return post...

No need for a deposit even with Premier

[chiang mai]

That's interesting news about BarclayCard, my experiences have been very different:

I used to use BC a lot when I lived in the UK but after 2004 I stopped using it, despite that fact they kept sending me new cards and the odd letter, all sent to my sisters address which was clearly marked as a c/o address. In 2007 whilst living in Chiang Mai I tried to reduce the amount of mail sent to my sisters home so I called the BC help desk and they were quite happy to change my address to CM. Two months ago I wrote to BC UK to ensure that my ex-wife was no longer associated with my account and they wrote back and assured me she was not, their letter being sent to me at my home in Phuket. In the course of that letter they also informed me that my card had been uprated to a Cash Back card, this despite the fact that I have not used the BC service since 2004! I cannot account for why my experience with BC has been so different from that of the OP's.

[chiang mai]

Am about to send letter to HMRC informing of Thai address and asking some question that will prompt a reply too, just in case (actually earn so little rent in UK they asked me to stop bothering with tax forms several years ago so am not a tax payer, so can't really think of a question right now..)

cheers all

Write asking about your pension credits and asking for a pension forecast, then at least you also get useful info.

Regarding the offshore account with a UK address, you used to be able to open one, but that may have all changed now?

My understanding is that the final phase of the EU Savings Directive comes into play around June this year, that will mean that anyone who applies for an offshore account and has a UK address will be required to have tax with held at source.

[Soutpeel]

My understanding is that the final phase of the EU Savings Directive comes into play around June this year, that will mean that anyone who applies for an offshore account and has a UK address will be required to have tax with held at source.

Yeap..heard the same thing

[partington]

quick question--can they do the statement in English do you know?

cheers

The one they did for me was in Thai. I didn't ask if English was possible, was just happy to get ANYTHING !

OK thanks! I don't know what I'm getting either but will find out on pickup tomorrow!

[partington]

If you have an HSBC premier account anywhere in the world- they will open an offshore account for you in Singapore in a couple of days- NO documents required- i just did it myself and was surprised how easy it was.

You can open an offshore account in Singapore with any of the majors ie Citibank, HSBC, Standard Chartered very easily with or without a "premier" account provided you are not a US citizen...

In fact, Citibank can can virtually be done on-line and only requirement is providing a certified copy of your passport and a deposit amount of US$ 25k and receive your ATM card by return post...

No need for a deposit even with Premier

This is interesting, as I've read several threads elsewhere that implied you need to be a Singapore resident, or have an introduction from one, to open accounts there.

In my particular case though I want to get an offshore account within the UK based clearing system so I can get my UK rent paid in electronically by the letting agents, etc etc

Plus I'm not rich enough to have an HSBC Premier account, or plush Singapore accounts, my income in a year is now under £20000, no need for a 'relationship manager' for me, they'd spit on me!

[partington]

That's interesting news about BarclayCard, my experiences have been very different:

I used to use BC a lot when I lived in the UK but after 2004 I stopped using it, despite that fact they kept sending me new cards and the odd letter, all sent to my sisters address which was clearly marked as a c/o address. In 2007 whilst living in Chiang Mai I tried to reduce the amount of mail sent to my sisters home so I called the BC help desk and they were quite happy to change my address to CM. Two months ago I wrote to BC UK to ensure that my ex-wife was no longer associated with my account and they wrote back and assured me she was not, their letter being sent to me at my home in Phuket. In the course of that letter they also informed me that my card had been uprated to a Cash Back card, this despite the fact that I have not used the BC service since 2004! I cannot account for why my experience with BC has been so different from that of the OP's.

Very interesting information indeed, now I'm really baffled!!!

I was in the US at the time, but the letter Barclaycard sent actually said "We have noticed you do not have a UK residential address, and Barclaycard terms and conditions do not allow us to keep your account open. " They didn't say we have noticed you have a US address which would imply it was one of those weird 'not available to US residents' conditions that always seem to crop up. They had also taken 9 years to notice that I didn't have a UK address, despite sending me statements during that entire period.

Bloody hell! I'm beginning to despise banks even more than I did before, which I would not have thought possible.....

[Soutpeel]

This is interesting, as I've read several threads elsewhere that implied you need to be a Singapore resident, or have an introduction from one, to open accounts there.

Not true if you deal with the international banks there, if you deal with the "local" Singapore banks generally they will not touch you if you are not a Singapore resident/citizen

[Soutpeel]

no need for a 'relationship manager' for me, they'd spit on me!

hence the reason I binned my HSBC Premier account some years ago and went with a Citigold account and couldnt be happier.....HSBC customer service was dire even with a "Premier" account....

[ExpatJ]

If you have an HSBC premier account anywhere in the world- they will open an offshore account for you in Singapore in a couple of days- NO documents required- i just did it myself and was surprised how easy it was.

You can open an offshore account in Singapore with any of the majors ie Citibank, HSBC, Standard Chartered very easily with or without a "premier" account provided you are not a US citizen...

In fact, Citibank can can virtually be done on-line and only requirement is providing a certified copy of your passport and a deposit amount of US$ 25k and receive your ATM card by return post...

No need for a deposit even with Premier

This is interesting, as I've read several threads elsewhere that implied you need to be a Singapore resident, or have an introduction from one, to open accounts there.

In my particular case though I want to get an offshore account within the UK based clearing system so I can get my UK rent paid in electronically by the letting agents, etc etc

Plus I'm not rich enough to have an HSBC Premier account, or plush Singapore accounts, my income in a year is now under £20000, no need for a 'relationship manager' for me, they'd spit on me!

Dont worry about not having a relationship manager- everyone i have had with HSBC Premier have been useless in terms of their investment advice, a complete waste of time.

[PattayaParent]

My understanding is that the final phase of the EU Savings Directive comes into play around June this year, that will mean that anyone who applies for an offshore account and has a UK address will be required to have tax with held at source.

Yeap..heard the same thing

Same situation as onshore then BUT he would be able to change his address to overseas once he could provide documentary evidence.

But what I understood is that the new EUSD changes only relate to reporting of the account to the UK (EU) tax authorities and interest will still be paid gross.

[Naam]

My understanding is that...

anybody who maintains an investment account in any of the EU states should be gently hit with a hard object on the back of his skull till he changes his mind.

[cardholder]

Banks will also usually accept correspondence from HMRC as proof of address. You could ask HMRC to send you details of your tax code, for example, just to get a document.

Incidentally, rather than go with Santander which now has a pretty dreadful reputation for service, consider one of the alternatives such as Nationwide International.

That's a good point about the HMRC, I wonder if a letter from from the DWP might also surfice or indeed a letter from my Civil Service Pension providers.

I am in the process of opening an account with Nationwide International in the IOM.

OG, are you using a Thai or UK address with Nationwide Int ?

[theoldgit]

OG, are you using a Thai or UK address with Nationwide Int ?

Thai

[sarahsbloke]

Just to point out a couple of years back the UK banks had a bit of a wobble about customers with poor credit ratings.

They started ditching customers with any old excuse.

I'm pretty sure they don't ditch customers that appear to have money, just the ones not worth their while.

Starting to think, we noticed you don't have a UK address = we don't need poor customers, in UK bankspeak.

Anyone with say, 10,000UKP running through their account each year had that account canceled because they are living overseas?

(my guess is NO)

Edited May 11, 2011 by sarahsbloke

[cardholder]

Now, all this "know your customer" bullshit is about "money laundering". However, a bunch of jobsworthies have jump on the "Gis a job" wagon, and decided that in order to prove they have a job, all accounts must be periodically verified. This is also bullshit, as it is not the regulators demanding this, it is merely the jobsworthies proving they have a job to do. For example I have one account in the UK that for years no money has gone in or out of. This is obviously blatant money laundering, as every two years the <deleted> insist on "proof of address" by making me send a statement from another bank. What a <deleted> joke, 80 quid in an account just to hold it open and I have to jump through the loop.

Jobsworthies extreme.

I do believe that chip on your shoulder is getting bigger 12D PS - I am still waiting for my box of Chang !

Spot on about Money Laundering Rules (MLR). They were designed. allegedly, to prevent the international 'cleansing' of terrorist and criminal money. In effect all it has done is make like increasingly difficult for the man in the street - this entirely due to what 12D identified as banks (and others, lawyers are as bad) interpreting the rules in such a way that a whole new industry of Money Laundering has been created.

I think Partington is absolutely right to retain a UK bank account in his siruation. Unless you trying to establish 'domicile' elsewhere there is no point in cutting all ties. MLR has proved it is almost impossible to start again later. He can also find a way to meet the MLR paperwork requirements. One option - use sister's address and have bank statements sent there for a month (then change back to the Thai address ifthat is what you have now. I understand from the posts that rent is received so there is alo the option of using that address (again, by changing your bank correspondence address for one month).

Of course, all this subterfuge should not be necessary, you should be able to say - "<deleted>, just open me a bank account where I want to have one"

[theoldgit]

Anyone with say, 10,000UKP running through their account each year had that account canceled because they are living overseas?

(my guess is NO)

I had a multiple of that running through my account, that's only £833 a month. But you may have a point, most of it ran through and I didn't maintain a high credit balance, or indeed any debt, my credit cards were paid off every month, so they were not making any money out of me.

[partington]

Just to point out a couple of years back the UK banks had a bit of a wobble about customers with poor credit ratings.

They started ditching customers with any old excuse.

I'm pretty sure they don't ditch customers that appear to have money, just the ones not worth their while.

Starting to think, we noticed you don't have a UK address = we don't need poor customers, in UK bankspeak.

Anyone with say, 10,000UKP running through their account each year had that account canceled because they are living overseas?

(my guess is NO)

Have a read of the article I linked to in my original post....

[theoldgit]

Just to point out a couple of years back the UK banks had a bit of a wobble about customers with poor credit ratings.

They started ditching customers with any old excuse.

I'm pretty sure they don't ditch customers that appear to have money, just the ones not worth their while.

Starting to think, we noticed you don't have a UK address = we don't need poor customers, in UK bankspeak.

Anyone with say, 10,000UKP running through their account each year had that account canceled because they are living overseas?

(my guess is NO)

Have a read of the article I linked to in my original post....

The link says "We cannot find the page you are looking for" it said that when you started the thread.

[PattayaParent]

Just to point out a couple of years back the UK banks had a bit of a wobble about customers with poor credit ratings.

They started ditching customers with any old excuse.

I'm pretty sure they don't ditch customers that appear to have money, just the ones not worth their while.

Starting to think, we noticed you don't have a UK address = we don't need poor customers, in UK bankspeak.

Anyone with say, 10,000UKP running through their account each year had that account canceled because they are living overseas?

(my guess is NO)

Have a read of the article I linked to in my original post....

The link says "We cannot find the page you are looking for" it said that when you started the thread.

Remove the ] after the .html and it opens just fine

[NanLaew]

My understanding is that the final phase of the EU Savings Directive comes into play around June this year, that will mean that anyone who applies for an offshore account and has a UK address will be required to have tax with held at source.

Yeap..heard the same thing

My bank gave me a heads up on this for my Isle of Man accounts a couple of years back. I didn't really want bank statements and important mailed notices going astray between there and Udon so I asked if it was possible to have two addresses; one overseas which is my primary residence address whilst retaining a UK address for paperwork. This is what I have set up on my accounts and I either collect my paperwork when visiting the UK or, if it's urgent, get it couriered to Thailand. This legally obviates the need for EU tax withholding.

Having said that and with regard to the OP, it would appear that Barclays are indeed just weeding out the non-earning (for them) accounts and as surmised, probably a task dreamed up by a relatively new branch jobsworth to get him noticed. However, if this letter originated from your local branch and does not contain either a copy of or, a link to the 'terms and conditions' they reference, then they cannot close your account.

As mentioned by others, retaining an account in the UK is much preferred to burning all the bridges and going offshore-only. Who knows how more difficult it will become to open a regular account when you really need one if you have been non-resident for several years.

I my experience, I had no domestic UK bank account for over 25 years. However, having held an account in Isle of Man during that period made opening a domestic account with a UK branch of the same bank very easy a couple of years ago.

Edited May 13, 2011 by NanLaew

[PattayaParent]

^all offhore banks allow you to utilise 2 addresses where one is your permanent residence address and the other is a correspondance address, in a lot of cases they will be the same address.

Yes, it would be easy to open an account onshore in a branch of the same bank you have offhore, even though it's not necessary and you can continue to use the offhore account. Likewise in the OPs situation he should easily be able to open an offshore account with his current bank and his local branch should be able to assist in doing that.

[PattayaParent]

My understanding is that the final phase of the EU Savings Directive comes into play around June this year, that will mean that anyone who applies for an offshore account and has a UK address will be required to have tax with held at source.

Yeap..heard the same thing

Same situation as onshore then BUT he would be able to change his address to overseas once he could provide documentary evidence.

But what I understood is that the new EUSD changes only relate to reporting of the account to the UK (EU) tax authorities and interest will still be paid gross.

Change to the Isle of Man’s current application of the European Union Savings Tax Directive

In 2010, the Isle of Man Government passed legislation to the effect that from 1 July 2011, financial institutions in the Isle of Man will apply automatic Exchange of Information in relation to the EUSTD. This means that the Retention Tax default option will cease to be available from 1 July 2011. From this same date the option to Certify as Exempt from EUSTD will also be removed and all EU residents will be subject to Exchange of Information.

http://www.alil.co.im/assets/pdf/Info_for_EU_Residents.pdf

There will be no tax deducted at source

[partington]

My understanding is that the final phase of the EU Savings Directive comes into play around June this year, that will mean that anyone who applies for an offshore account and has a UK address will be required to have tax with held at source.

Yeap..heard the same thing

My bank gave me a heads up on this for my Isle of Man accounts a couple of years back. I didn't really want bank statements and important mailed notices going astray between there and Udon so I asked if it was possible to have two addresses; one overseas which is my primary residence address whilst retaining a UK address for paperwork. This is what I have set up on my accounts and I either collect my paperwork when visiting the UK or, if it's urgent, get it couriered to Thailand. This legally obviates the need for EU tax withholding.

Having said that and with regard to the OP, it would appear that Barclays are indeed just weeding out the non-earning (for them) accounts and as surmised, probably a task dreamed up by a relatively new branch jobsworth to get him noticed. However, if this letter originated from your local branch and does not contain either a copy of or, a link to the 'terms and conditions' they reference, then they cannot close your account.

As mentioned by others, retaining an account in the UK is much preferred to burning all the bridges and going offshore-only. Who knows how more difficult it will become to open a regular account when you really need one if you have been non-resident for several years.

I my experience, I had no domestic UK bank account for over 25 years. However, having held an account in Isle of Man during that period made opening a domestic account with a UK branch of the same bank very easy a couple of years ago.

Thanks all;

@sarahsbloke/@theoldgit

here's the original link without my confusing brackets--my point in referring to this again was that this article is recent , and does not attribute the banks' closing of accounts to worries about low deposits, bad credit, low cash flow etc., but to random and inconsistent applications of the anti-money laundering regulations, which all banks interpret differently.--

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/offshorefinance/8193761/Banks-have-lottery-style-approach-to-expats-who-want-to-retain-UK-bank-accounts.html

@NanLaew

Just to clarify - it was BARCLAYCARD that said they were closing my account because of terms of use not allowing a non-UK address NOT Barclay's bank.

I have changed my address to a UK address on both Barclaycard and Barclay's Bank accounts, so should strictly be protected from unwanted closure of either.

On reading the article linked above I got a little nervous about my Barclays Bank account: I only need to make one slip up, or alert them by doing large transfers to Thailand, before they might try to confirm my UK address as a real residence address and , failing to do that, close my account. I have £1500 coming into the account regularly every month, and the amount on deposit at any time is usually £8-12,000, and so I don't think low cash flow , bad credit, etc would be a motivation for them to close it .

What I really WANT is: to continue to use my UK account, because it is so useful and working so well, so I am not going to trigger Barclays closing my UK onshore account by informing them I'm not resident and applying for an offshore account with them. As well Barclays offshore accounts are really bad for my purposes and I don't want one with them: they're expensive and have large minimum deposit requirements for eligibility (it's called Barclay's Wealth, as soon as you go offshore)- you pay these huge charges for relationship managers and investment advice and all sorts of b*ll*cks, that are completely unnecessary for me. I do not want to pay huge bank charges for things I don't use when there's no need.

So what I am trying to do, and think I am 80% sure of being able to do now is: open an offshore account that is a basic, no-frills, current account with no charges, as long as the account has say £5-10000 deposited, within the UK clearing system, that I will hold in reserve as a back up.

I will continue to pay my bills, receive my rent and bond investment money, do my day to day banking online with Barclay's UK , and will not voluntarily change until and unless Barclay's UK themselves contact me and say: we've found out you don't live in the UK , so we are closing the account you've had with us for 35 years and you can <deleted> off.

I will then change my bond and rental payments to go into my reserve offshore account, and use this account to pay my bills in the UK and transfer money over here, as I have been doing with my Barclays UK account up to this point , in what I hope will be a seamless transfer.

I am sending off the new account application by FedEx on Monday, and if the account is opened successfully, then within about a week to ten days I will be independent of any possible future random cancellation of my UK onshore account by Barclay' s. But this cancellation may never happen, and won't unless they themselves trigger it---this is a BACK-UP plan.

OK , hope that's clarified. Thanks again for all the responses!

Cheers

[PattayaParent]

So what I am trying to do, and think I am 80% sure of being able to do now is: open an offshore account that is a basic, no-frills, current account with no charges, as long as the account has say £5-10000 deposited, within the UK clearing system, that I will hold in reserve as a back up.

Out of interest which bank? There's few that actually do what you want, I could only find 3 when I was looking but I wanted both GBP and USD current accounts.

[partington]

So what I am trying to do, and think I am 80% sure of being able to do now is: open an offshore account that is a basic, no-frills, current account with no charges, as long as the account has say £5-10000 deposited, within the UK clearing system, that I will hold in reserve as a back up.

Out of interest which bank? There's few that actually do what you want, I could only find 3 when I was looking but I wanted both GBP and USD current accounts.

Cooperative Bank in Guernsey, but to be frank this is cheating a bit, because I am an existing customer with them, (fixed term deposit with a comparatively huge amount in it), so they waived a few of the ID and 3 month bank statements requirements. I wasn't aware that they did these kind of accounts until I started looking everywhere else for possibilities, even though I had a fixed term deposit with them. If I hadn't been an existing customer it would have been more difficult (but eventually still possible I think)

[sarahsbloke]

Try an online company called HiFx

They are based in the UK and owned by one of the big UK banks, they will transfer money to Thailand entirely online using your UK Debit, Credit cards or you can pay them by UK online bank transfer.

Your UK bank will never see where the money is going, so this should satisfy your 'foreign address' worries.

I use them so my accounts in Thailand cannot be easily traced from the UK.

[PattayaParent]

So what I am trying to do, and think I am 80% sure of being able to do now is: open an offshore account that is a basic, no-frills, current account with no charges, as long as the account has say £5-10000 deposited, within the UK clearing system, that I will hold in reserve as a back up.

Out of interest which bank? There's few that actually do what you want, I could only find 3 when I was looking but I wanted both GBP and USD current accounts.

Cooperative Bank in Guernsey, but to be frank this is cheating a bit, because I am an existing customer with them, (fixed term deposit with a comparatively huge amount in it), so they waived a few of the ID and 3 month bank statements requirements. I wasn't aware that they did these kind of accounts until I started looking everywhere else for possibilities, even though I had a fixed term deposit with them. If I hadn't been an existing customer it would have been more difficult (but eventually still possible I think)

OK, one of the 3 that I found, but the IoM branch.

Good thing is they do credit cards as well.

[partington]

So what I am trying to do, and think I am 80% sure of being able to do now is: open an offshore account that is a basic, no-frills, current account with no charges, as long as the account has say £5-10000 deposited, within the UK clearing system, that I will hold in reserve as a back up.

Out of interest which bank? There's few that actually do what you want, I could only find 3 when I was looking but I wanted both GBP and USD current accounts.

Cooperative Bank in Guernsey, but to be frank this is cheating a bit, because I am an existing customer with them, (fixed term deposit with a comparatively huge amount in it), so they waived a few of the ID and 3 month bank statements requirements. I wasn't aware that they did these kind of accounts until I started looking everywhere else for possibilities, even though I had a fixed term deposit with them. If I hadn't been an existing customer it would have been more difficult (but eventually still possible I think)

OK, one of the 3 that I found, but the IoM branch.

Good thing is they do credit cards as well.

? Don't think so- they don't have an IOM branch.

I do agree these kind of accounts are very hard to find offshore--but available in every high street bank in the UK. A good reason not to close your UK onshore account unless forced toI