Want To Buy A House, But Is It Possible?

[radiola]

I am European, 35 yo, I want to buy a house for 1 mio BHT. Very good one. So what are my options. I know I can marry my girl and get house that way, but I am not sure about her yet. I dont wantt to get married because of the house.

Is it piossible to just buy it somehow and be the owner?

I dont have a large capital to invest in the business. I know I can buy condo easily, but what are the options to buy a house?

[dave111223]

I doubt you'd find a "Very good" house for 1 million baht...?

[InterestedObserver]

It is possible to own a house separate from the land, which a foreigner cannot own. You would arrange long-term land rights, such as a 30 year lease or usufruct, from a landowner and build your house. The house would need to be registered at the local Land Office to be yours. However, being only 35 years old without large capital to invest is not a good position to be in. Take your time.

[radiola]

It is beautiful house, 1 floor house, 5 yo, 2 bedrooms on top, large living room and kitchen on bottom

Enough for two persons

Is it possible that a falang gets a credit? Or some kind of a protection?

I know thai people can pa only 100000 bth and the rest in 10 years or so, what abiout foreigner?

What if my girlfriend pays and I give the money, if we break up, is there somekind of a paper that says I paid for it? And that she has to pay me back?

Probably not right'

[guzzi850m2]

If she pays for the house/land with your hard earned money, you are fuc_ked if she decides to kick you out, bye-bye 1mill bath.

You can set up a lease contract with your girl friend where she buys the property and you lease it from her which will give you right to stay on the land/house for 30 years. Maybe you can do a contract where the house is to be sold if you split up and you share the money in a % you can agree upon, or do you want to stay in the house in case of separation? Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Where is the house located at that price it must be on the country side, You will need a lawyer to set this up for you and I don't know if a lawyer out on the country side can set this up properly for you.

One friendly advice to you. Think very hard about it before you commit yourself, you are only 35 years old, can you live in Thailand full time or do you have to work in EU? Do you plan to have kids with your GF?

I only bought a house here because I have a wife and kid and hope to get more kids.

[stgrhe]

Is it possible that a falang gets a credit? Or some kind of a protection?

Unless it is a seller / developer finance loan it is virtually impossible for a foreigner without a permanent residence status to get a bank loan. However, if the house in question lies within Bangkok Metropolitan area HSBC might offer a loan provided you deposit a decent amount with them.

Protection can be made through a 30 year lease, a usufruct or a superficies. The house can be owned by yourself on a leased land, but it is more complex to separate ownership of an existing house from the land compared to a new building.

[trogers]

Makes me wonder why a 35yo guy wants to part with Bt1m to a gf...

but I am not sure about her yet. I dont wantt to get married because of the house.

Seems wiser to buy himself a condo which can be sold later to buy his wife and children a house. At a future point in life when relationships are more settled and firm.

[LennyW]

Usufruct, Lease or Servitude, all very simple.

[radiola]

My dillema is that I am paying 20000 bht for a room in BKK per month. If I stay 6 months that would cover 100000 bht a first deposit for the house. I would never pay 1mio bht in 1 take. But after I pay 100000 I would get a credit for 20 years and I would pay like 4000 bht per month, pretty good for a good big house, approx 100 sq meters in south of thailand near krabi

But yes I would have to give her 100 000 bht to get a credit to buy a house. I think it is a good idea and lease it from her.

THe only problem is apparently that I am not sure yet if we will stay together long term. I love her. But I am not sure. I am not that kind of a guy to tie myself down to a woman.

And yes I have come to Thailand 3 times for 6 months, that is total 18 months. I am not working her, I have saved money

But another problem is getting long term visa if I dont get married of hop over the border every 15 days.

I just don't want to throw away money for a rent in BKK if I can stay in house, relax and enjoy life.

[guzzi850m2]

I seems to me that you have too many IF's.

Not sure if you stay with your GF.

Not a good idea to have a house and you split up and you go to EU for work and leave the house empty for maybe 6 month, then the house will properly be EMPTY when you return.

You rent a room in BKK but want to buy a house in Krabi? Don't make sense to me, go live where you want to settle BEFORE buying anything

South of Krabi, hmm, have you stayed there before? When my family goes up to our second house near SiSaket I manage to stay there for 5 days (incl the driving up/home) before I am bored out of my skull and want to go back to the buzz of Pattaya.

Why don't you rent a small house down in Krabi first, should be cheap maybe 8-10.000 a month and see if you like it there and develop/end your relation ship with your GF and then take it from there. You got plenty of time my friend.

[trogers]

I seems to me that you have too many IF's.

Not sure if you stay with your GF.

You rent a room in BKK but want to buy a house in Krabi? Don't make sense to me, go live where you want to settle BEFORE buying anything

His gf is probably from Krabi.

May end up with multiple houses when he switches girlfriends...

[ESB7]

Makes me wonder why a 35yo guy wants to part with Bt1m to a gf...

but I am not sure about her yet. I dont wantt to get married because of the house.

Seems wiser to buy himself a condo which can be sold later to buy his wife and children a house. At a future point in life when relationships are more settled and firm.

Condos in the countryside???

[radiola]

I should have give you more info. I lived inBKK 1 year then I moved near krabi for 6 months, so I know the area. It is not that boring if you ask me.

I just don't want to loose money in BKK throwing 20000 BHT away every month for a small room.

But I think I should buy when I marry. Now I guess I will just rent the place for 1 year and see how it goes.

Is it possible to do border hops for like 1 year? Every 15 days? Will they look me strange when they see 10 stamps in my passport?

[dave111223]

This thread has got to be me a wind up.

[trogers]

I should have give you more info. I lived inBKK 1 year then I moved near krabi for 6 months, so I know the area. It is not that boring if you ask me.

I just don't want to loose money in BKK throwing 20000 BHT away every month for a small room.

But I think I should buy when I marry. Now I guess I will just rent the place for 1 year and see how it goes.

Is it possible to do border hops for like 1 year? Every 15 days? Will they look me strange when they see 10 stamps in my passport?

See this:

Recent feedback is not more than 2 consecutive tourist visas at the same consular/embassy. If your intended stay is not over a year, an education visa may be appropriate, learning the Thai language.

[transam]

This thread has got to be me a wind up.

Or he's crackers.

[falkan]

How does a usufruct work? I've found a house for 2 million tbh with the missus

what will I have to pay tax and how does usufruct work?

[stgrhe]

How does a usufruct work? I've found a house for 2 million tbh with the missus

what will I have to pay tax and how does usufruct work?

A Usufruct can be registered for life or for a defined period that must not exceed 30 years. In other words, a Usufruct gives you the right to continue live on the premises as long as you live if the 'life option' has been selected.

This is an English translation of the law text:

THAI CIVIL AND COMMERCIAL CODE – PART III

TITLE VII - USUFRUCT

Section 1417 - An immovable property may be subject to a usufruct by virtue of which the usufructuary is entitled to the possession, use and enjoyment of the property.

He has the right of management of the property.

The usufruct of a forest, mine or quarry entitles the usufructuary to the exploitation of the forest, mine or quarry.

Section 1418 – A usufruct may be created either for a period of time or for life of the usufructuary.

If no time has been fixed, it is presumed that the usufruct is for the life of the usufructuary. If it is created for a period of time, the provisions of Section 1403 paragraph 3 *) shall apply mutatis mutandis.

In any case the usufruct comes to an end on the death of the usufructuary.

*) Section 1403, paragraph 3: "If it is granted for a period of time, the period may not exceed thirty years; if a longer period is stipulated, it shall be reduced to thirty years. The grant may be renewed for a period not exceeding thirty years from the time of renewal."

Section 1419 – If property is destroyed without compensation being paid, the owner is not bound to restore it; but if he does so to an extent, the usufruct revives to that extent.

If any compensation is paid, the owner of the usufructuary must restore the property so far as it is possible to do so, having regard to the amount of the compensation received, and the usufruct revives to that extent; but, if restoration is impossible, the usufruct comes to an end and the compensation must be divided between the owner and the usufructuary in proportion to the damages suffered by them respectively.

The same rules apply mutatis mutandis in case of expropriation as well as in the case partial destruction of the property or of partial impossibility to restore the property.

Section 1420 – When usufruct comes to an end, the usufructuary must return the property to the owner.

The usufructuary is liable for the destruction of depreciation in value of the property, unless he proves that the damage was not caused by his fault. He must replace anything which he has wrongfully consumed.

He is not bound to give compensation for depreciation in value caused by reasonable use.

Section 1421 – The usufructuary must, in the exercise of his rights, take as much care of the property as a person of ordinary prudence would take of his own property.

Section 1422 – Unless otherwise provided in the act creating a usufruct, the usufructuary may transfer the exercise of his right to a third person. In such case the owner of the property may sue the transferee direct.

Section 1423 – The owner may object to any unlawful or unreasonable use of the property.

If the owner proves that his rights are in peril, he may demand security from the usufructuary, except in the case of a donor who has reserved to himself the usufruct of the property given.

If the usufructuary fails to give security within a reasonable time fixed for the purpose, or if, in the spirit of the objection, he continues to make use of the property unlawfully or unreasonably, the Court may appoint a Receiver to manage the property in his stead. Upon security being given the Court may release the Receiver so appointed.

Section 1424 – The usufructuary is bound to keep the substance of the property unaltered, and is responsible for ordinary maintenance and petty repairs.

If important repairs of measures are necessary for the preservation of the property, the usufructuary must forthwith inform the owner thereof and permit them to be carried out. In case of default by the owner, the usufructuary may have the work carried out at the owner's expense.

Section 1425 – All extraordinary expenses must be borne by the owner, but in order to meet these expenses coming under the foregoing section he may realise part of the property unless the usufructuary is willing to advance the necessary funds without charging interest.

Section 1426 – The usufructuary shall, for the duration of the usufruct, bear expenses for the management of the property, pay taxes and duties, and be responsible for interests payable on depts. Charged upon it.

Section 1427 – If required by the owner, the usufructuary is bound to insure the property against loss for the benefit of the owner; and if the property is already insured he is bound to renew such insurance when due.

He must pay premiums of the insurance for the duration of his usufruct.

Section 1428 – No action by the owner against the usufructuary or his transferee in connection with the usufruct or vice versa may be entered later than one year after the usufruct comes to an end. But in an action by the owner who could not have known of the end of the usufruct, the prescription of the year shall run from the time when he knew or ought to have known of it.

Definition:

Mutatis mutandis – "Due alteration , or changing whatever is required to be changed. As in, "The changes proposed for the first contract apply mutatis mutandis to all other contracts ." Latin for, things being changed that ought to be changed".

Section 1469, Chapter IV i Civil and Commercial Code:

" Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith is not affected thereby."

[Tonto21]

35, not sure about G/F??? Don't do it.......Just say no! Rent, Rent, Rent.

[trisailer]

I wouldn't buy a house until I've lived here at least a year and then I would do it through a company with nominees which is not exactly legal, but there are 10's of thousands of us doing it. My fall back is to shift it into my wifes name if the SHTF and I would have a lot more confidence in her now that we'been married for 5 years. I've had my house for 5 years and I have someone check my papers at least once a year to be sure there's no funny business.

There is no "safe" way to buy a house here IMO but the least safe option is to put it into your wife or girlfriend's name.

I can't imagine what you could buy for 1 million anyway and see lots of problems with your approach.

[Spoonman]

I think you should go for it, don't worry bout the GF she will not rort you.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Spoonman

[IMA_FARANG]

You can "buy" a house...actually lease one on a 30 year lease... from many companies who do that..but you can not OWN the land in your name as a foriegner. The "owner" of the land...and that includes the land the house your lease is on...must be a Thai.

Be very careful with these deals...because if you don't own the land where will you put the house if the lease is canceled or not renewed for any reason? There are however perfectly legitimate companies that lease property as a business and have done this for quite a few years. Just, as I said, be careful before you sign anything or put your money into the deal.

The other way to "own" land in Thailand is to have your Thai wife or partner actually buy the property with your money. Obviously you have to be very careful with this, also.

About 5 years ago I "bought" a house for my Thai wife and her family (from her previous marriage that went bad). I figured she (now 62 years old) and I (now 65 years old) were niether of us going to run off with a younger partner anytime soon. And as for the question, if I die what will happen to the house; I basically figured, well o.k., but why should I care, I'll be dead then anyhow. That's where I am living now and I'm now applying for a retirement extension to my Non O multi-entry visa to live in Bangkok.

This rule does not apply to "owning" a condo, you can legally buy a condo and own it. However the condo buildng you buy your condo in must be no more than 49% owned by a foriegner, (ie. no more than 49% of the condo units can be owned by foriegners and the other 51% must be owned by Thais). Even then you can't own the land your condo building is on, the land must be owned by a Thai company, usually the same one that's selling the condo units.

Edited May 15, 2011 by IMA_FARANG

[trogers]

This rule does not apply to "owning" a condo, you can legally buy a condo and own it. However the condo buildng you buy your condo in must be no more than 49% owned by a foriegner, (ie. no more than 49% of the condo units can be owned by foriegners and the other 51% must be owned by Thais). Even then you can't own the land your condo building is on, the land must be owned by a Thai company, usually the same one that's selling the condo units.

Correction. The condo land will be owned jointly by foreigners and Thais in the proportion of 49:51

[falkan]

How does a usufruct work? I've found a house for 2 million tbh with the missus

what will I have to pay tax and how does usufruct work?

A Usufruct can be registered for life or for a defined period that must not exceed 30 years. In other words, a Usufruct gives you the right to continue live on the premises as long as you live if the 'life option' has been selected.

This is an English translation of the law text:

THAI CIVIL AND COMMERCIAL CODE – PART III

TITLE VII - USUFRUCT

Section 1417 - An immovable property may be subject to a usufruct by virtue of which the usufructuary is entitled to the possession, use and enjoyment of the property.

He has the right of management of the property.

The usufruct of a forest, mine or quarry entitles the usufructuary to the exploitation of the forest, mine or quarry.

Section 1418 – A usufruct may be created either for a period of time or for life of the usufructuary.

If no time has been fixed, it is presumed that the usufruct is for the life of the usufructuary. If it is created for a period of time, the provisions of Section 1403 paragraph 3 *) shall apply mutatis mutandis.

In any case the usufruct comes to an end on the death of the usufructuary.

*) Section 1403, paragraph 3: "If it is granted for a period of time, the period may not exceed thirty years; if a longer period is stipulated, it shall be reduced to thirty years. The grant may be renewed for a period not exceeding thirty years from the time of renewal."

Section 1419 – If property is destroyed without compensation being paid, the owner is not bound to restore it; but if he does so to an extent, the usufruct revives to that extent.

If any compensation is paid, the owner of the usufructuary must restore the property so far as it is possible to do so, having regard to the amount of the compensation received, and the usufruct revives to that extent; but, if restoration is impossible, the usufruct comes to an end and the compensation must be divided between the owner and the usufructuary in proportion to the damages suffered by them respectively.

The same rules apply mutatis mutandis in case of expropriation as well as in the case partial destruction of the property or of partial impossibility to restore the property.

Section 1420 – When usufruct comes to an end, the usufructuary must return the property to the owner.

The usufructuary is liable for the destruction of depreciation in value of the property, unless he proves that the damage was not caused by his fault. He must replace anything which he has wrongfully consumed.

He is not bound to give compensation for depreciation in value caused by reasonable use.

Section 1421 – The usufructuary must, in the exercise of his rights, take as much care of the property as a person of ordinary prudence would take of his own property.

Section 1422 – Unless otherwise provided in the act creating a usufruct, the usufructuary may transfer the exercise of his right to a third person. In such case the owner of the property may sue the transferee direct.

Section 1423 – The owner may object to any unlawful or unreasonable use of the property.

If the owner proves that his rights are in peril, he may demand security from the usufructuary, except in the case of a donor who has reserved to himself the usufruct of the property given.

If the usufructuary fails to give security within a reasonable time fixed for the purpose, or if, in the spirit of the objection, he continues to make use of the property unlawfully or unreasonably, the Court may appoint a Receiver to manage the property in his stead. Upon security being given the Court may release the Receiver so appointed.

Section 1424 – The usufructuary is bound to keep the substance of the property unaltered, and is responsible for ordinary maintenance and petty repairs.

If important repairs of measures are necessary for the preservation of the property, the usufructuary must forthwith inform the owner thereof and permit them to be carried out. In case of default by the owner, the usufructuary may have the work carried out at the owner's expense.

Section 1425 – All extraordinary expenses must be borne by the owner, but in order to meet these expenses coming under the foregoing section he may realise part of the property unless the usufructuary is willing to advance the necessary funds without charging interest.

Section 1426 – The usufructuary shall, for the duration of the usufruct, bear expenses for the management of the property, pay taxes and duties, and be responsible for interests payable on depts. Charged upon it.

Section 1427 – If required by the owner, the usufructuary is bound to insure the property against loss for the benefit of the owner; and if the property is already insured he is bound to renew such insurance when due.

He must pay premiums of the insurance for the duration of his usufruct.

Section 1428 – No action by the owner against the usufructuary or his transferee in connection with the usufruct or vice versa may be entered later than one year after the usufruct comes to an end. But in an action by the owner who could not have known of the end of the usufruct, the prescription of the year shall run from the time when he knew or ought to have known of it.

Definition:

Mutatis mutandis – "Due alteration , or changing whatever is required to be changed. As in, "The changes proposed for the first contract apply mutatis mutandis to all other contracts ." Latin for, things being changed that ought to be changed".

Section 1469, Chapter IV i Civil and Commercial Code:

" Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith is not affected thereby."

a few questions

This also applies if I and my girlfriend are not married?

I understand the text that I can lease the house and land until I die?

Why do not more people USUFRUCT instead of the leasehold interest in 30 years?

what this would cost about to register the feeling that I have to pay a lawyer or is there any simple paper that just needs to be signed?

Should I decide to run on USUFRUCT when should it be signed? Can I run USUFRUCT same time as my girl records the house / land in her name or should it be done after? which one is easier?

If I want to show my girlfriend where I can find this in Thai THAI CIVIL AND COMMERCIAL CODE - PART III

TITLE VII - USUFRUCT/

be grateful for answers

Edited May 15, 2011 by falkan

[stgrhe]

There are a couple of negative aspects with a usufruct compared to a lease. The main one is that a usufruct cannot be inherited. The second one is that some land offices here in Thailand refuse to register a usufruct, and especially so if the couple is not married, despite they should allow it.

Cost-wise it is much cheaper with a usufruct as the nominal fee is less than 100 baht only. However, again this is Thailand, so some land offices like to add a premium. For instance, the going rate in Hua Hin is 15,000 baht while just across the border in Pran Buri the same service cost me 75 baht.

Once the land has been transferred to your girlfriend's name you can go to the land office to register the usufruct. But unless you know the status in your area I suggest you first ask a solicitor whether an usufruct at all is accepted by the land office in question. Also, you probably need the solicitor to draw up the usufruct agreement, which can be in dual language, Thai and English. The agreement will then be signed by you and your girlfriend as well as by the solicitor.

A usufruct is called sitthi kep kinin Thai.

[falkan]

are there any examples out on USUFRUCT, would be fun to see before you write your own and if anybody here have experience setting up a USUFRUCT?

some other advice before I give myself in and write a USUFRUCT with my gf!

[stgrhe]

are there any examples out on USUFRUCT, would be fun to see before you write your own and if anybody here have experience setting up a USUFRUCT?

some other advice before I give myself in and write a USUFRUCT with my gf!

The usufruct should be written in dual language, if a non-Thai like you is involved that is, English and Thai, signed by both parties, two witnesses and also by the solicitor. To make sure you do word it properly you should use a solicitor. I do recommend you contact Sebastien at Isaan Lawyers even if you do not live in Korat.

[Soutpeel]

Is it possible that a falang gets a credit? Or some kind of a protection?

Unless it is a seller / developer finance loan it is virtually impossible for a foreigner without a permanent residence status to get a bank loan. However, if the house in question lies within Bangkok Metropolitan area HSBC might offer a loan provided you deposit a decent amount with them.

At the literal level you are correct, however it is possible to "get" a bank loan for a property based only on your income, if you co-sign for the loan, and the loan is in a Thai nationals name..(asumming here person co-signs is on a WP with a minimum of 12 months verfiable salary)