Rubber Trees

[Mosha]

Sold some scraps 84 Baht USS and 35 Baht Kee Yang

[thaiguzzi]

Mosha,

why do'nt you sell wet cup at government auction? We've now got 3 in our small local area.Last weeks was 43.15, and gate prices locally were similar to what you just got paid, about 38 baht. Talk at the moment is it may hit late 40's by the end of the month, and be back in the 50's by the end of october. Fingers crossed.

Regards,

Mike.

[Mosha]

H'mm it's dry, Maybe I owe SWMBO an apology. Hoping the trees are dry enough for an harvest tonight.

[Mosha]

Mosha,

why do'nt you sell wet cup at government auction? We've now got 3 in our small local area.Last weeks was 43.15, and gate prices locally were similar to what you just got paid, about 38 baht. Talk at the moment is it may hit late 40's by the end of the month, and be back in the 50's by the end of october. Fingers crossed.

Regards,

Mike.

Nearest AFAIK is in the middle of nowhere. 50Km from here, and I don't trust the barstewards

[jamescollister]

Mosha,

why do'nt you sell wet cup at government auction? We've now got 3 in our small local area.Last weeks was 43.15, and gate prices locally were similar to what you just got paid, about 38 baht. Talk at the moment is it may hit late 40's by the end of the month, and be back in the 50's by the end of october. Fingers crossed.

Regards,

Mike.

When you say 43 Baht is that wet weight or dry rubber content, there are no Government buyers around here that buy wet cup for crepe rubber, Didn't know the Government was into crepe anywhere. Jim

[thaiguzzi]

Jim,

wet weight. As said before,

turn up with your wet cup in sacks before 6.00pm, 2.00pm same day, envelopes are opened, highest bidder wins, after this time you know the price you will get TOMORROW. sacks stay UNOPENED overnight. Next morning 7.00am, it all starts, sacks emptied, weighed in front of you, go to the next stall with your ticket, get paid. get drunk or go home. up until last month, there were anywhere from 220 -300 punters per auction. This has now come down to 150-200, as two new auctions have started up, all within 40kms of each other, so that people do'nt have to travel so far. Remember, these are fortnightly auctions, and they expect you to have 2 weeks worth of cutting in those sacks, not 2-3 days worth.

This is not for crepe, the buyers who win, sell as dry cup 2-3 days later on fixed deals. Large amounts in weight guaranteed per fortnight. Profit of up to 7 baht per kilo, less expenses, ie trucks, labour and diesel, so probably 1-2 baht actual profit. Still not bad on heavy tonnage, ie 3 x 10 wheeler trucks full per auction. The new huge factory up here has been checked out for dry DRC deals, last week 62 baht dry cup DRC. However... 2 or 3 Thai punters i know tried it, were told 62 baht DRC, were given the squeeze test and told 40 baht per kilo. As one can imagine, word has spread, and everyone will stick to wet cup.

Mosha, up here, no one trusts the factories that buy DRC dry cup or latex. Same thing, they believe it's easy to get ripped. Hence wet cup and sheet is the ONLY thing produced and traded up here in Northern Isaan. And not too many people sell on the gate. We never have, ever.

Regards,

Mike.

[thaiguzzi]

Mosha,

when i say government auction, they are actually pretty privately run. The govmt bit comes from armed (M16's!) guards at nightime on the night the sacks are still on sight, and that each bidder has to register with the local ag office, and GUARANTEE sufficient funds to win any auction. Hence it's a pretty trustworthy setup. all the bidders are private.

Mike.

[jamescollister]

Jim,

wet weight. As said before,

turn up with your wet cup in sacks before 6.00pm, 2.00pm same day, envelopes are opened, highest bidder wins, after this time you know the price you will get TOMORROW. sacks stay UNOPENED overnight. Next morning 7.00am, it all starts, sacks emptied, weighed in front of you, go to the next stall with your ticket, get paid. get drunk or go home. up until last month, there were anywhere from 220 -300 punters per auction. This has now come down to 150-200, as two new auctions have started up, all within 40kms of each other, so that people do'nt have to travel so far. Remember, these are fortnightly auctions, and they expect you to have 2 weeks worth of cutting in those sacks, not 2-3 days worth.

This is not for crepe, the buyers who win, sell as dry cup 2-3 days later on fixed deals. Large amounts in weight guaranteed per fortnight. Profit of up to 7 baht per kilo, less expenses, ie trucks, labour and diesel, so probably 1-2 baht actual profit. Still not bad on heavy tonnage, ie 3 x 10 wheeler trucks full per auction. The new huge factory up here has been checked out for dry DRC deals, last week 62 baht dry cup DRC. However... 2 or 3 Thai punters i know tried it, were told 62 baht DRC, were given the squeeze test and told 40 baht per kilo. As one can imagine, word has spread, and everyone will stick to wet cup.

Mosha, up here, no one trusts the factories that buy DRC dry cup or latex. Same thing, they believe it's easy to get ripped. Hence wet cup and sheet is the ONLY thing produced and traded up here in Northern Isaan. And not too many people sell on the gate. We never have, ever.

Regards,

Mike.

OK follow you now it's not a fixed wet cup price, buyers approximate the DRC then place the bid. So really they are paying DRC and deducting the water content from the price. Jim

[thaiguzzi]

No Jim,

the auctions are called wet cup rubber auctions. They are bidding without even seeing the product. Their bids are related to what drycup/sheet/latex is worth on that given day in the markets. Generally wet cup goes for 50-55% of what the price of smoked sheet is on the television on the afternoon business programes the day before, say 100 baht per kilo BKK price for sheet, we would expect the winning auction bid to be around 52-55 baht/kilo.

Mike.

[jamescollister]

No Jim,

the auctions are called wet cup rubber auctions. They are bidding without even seeing the product. Their bids are related to what drycup/sheet/latex is worth on that given day in the markets. Generally wet cup goes for 50-55% of what the price of smoked sheet is on the television on the afternoon business programes the day before, say 100 baht per kilo BKK price for sheet, we would expect the winning auction bid to be around 52-55 baht/kilo.

Mike.

I am missing something or you are, how can they bid sight unseen. I can make cup the same way we make sheet, 3 liters of latex and 2 liters of water, weight 5 kilos. Pour it in to cup and leave it over night so it can be handled. Bag it and take it to the auction as wet cup. Buyers then pay over 200 Baht a kilo for DRC. Everyone's rubber will have different water content and to buy with out knowing how wet or dry it is would seem to me a way to lose money.

We were cup buyers up until this year and gauging water content was what it was all about, crepe is a different matter. Jim

[glennb6]

Um, seems to me that fresh kee yang as in collected less than 4 hrs prior will be 50-52% drc. Let it sit for a night and it will shed 10% of its weight. So if it sits in a plastic bag maybe 8-9% water weight loss over night as the water will collect in the bottom of the bag versus draining out onto the ground. Local factory had been telling us 1 day sit usually is 55% drc, 2 day sit is usually 58% drc.

My other half failed to grasp or convey that dripping wet cup should be paid a couple baht less per kg than firm dryer cup and I've said enough is enough, stop.

Jim and others, when you buy latex, is it typically 1/2 the price of wet cup, ie wet cut 40b/kg> latex 20b/liter ?

[jamescollister]

Um, seems to me that fresh kee yang as in collected less than 4 hrs prior will be 50-52% drc. Let it sit for a night and it will shed 10% of its weight. So if it sits in a plastic bag maybe 8-9% water weight loss over night as the water will collect in the bottom of the bag versus draining out onto the ground. Local factory had been telling us 1 day sit usually is 55% drc, 2 day sit is usually 58% drc.

My other half failed to grasp or convey that dripping wet cup should be paid a couple baht less per kg than firm dryer cup and I've said enough is enough, stop.

Jim and others, when you buy latex, is it typically 1/2 the price of wet cup, ie wet cut 40b/kg> latex 20b/liter ?

Glenn, when we buy latex and that's when the prices are better. We buy by dry rubber content not by liquid weight and when the prices are better we pay around 20 to 30 Baht more than the DRC for cup.

On cup buying, we have had them put stones in the cup or use a syringe to inject water in, they are full of tricks.

Easy enough to test the latex rubber content, we take 100 grams of latex, make a small pancake, stick in in a oven. When dry, you weigh the small pancake and that's your dry rubber content.

In the good days, say cup was 70 Baht a kilo dry and RSS was 120 Baht we would pay 90 Baht for dry rubber content in the latex. Then bobs your uncle and you are up 30 Baht when you turn it into sheet. Jim

[thaiguzzi]

Jim,

exactly. They are buying sight unseen. Some people have more water content than others. The stone trick surfaced from a story i heard in Bung Khan. I have also seen people's wet cup rejected on the grounds it's too soft and squidgy, and not firm cup (back to knockers and tits again), they've had to pack it all up and sell on the gate or take a 10 baht per kilo reduction. Too much formic and water mix, not enough latex.

Mike.

[thaiguzzi]

Glenn,

i think the only people who make money buying wet cup and selling dry cup are the type of people who win these auctions. Several million baht to win the auction, three 10 wheeler trucks to haul it away, very large volumes on fixed deals with the factory. Even at a baht a kilo profit, when they've got that sort of volume, there is money to be made. I have met the woman who wins most of the auctions 3-4 kms outside Bung Khan, she needs 25 MILLION baht per fortnightly auction to pay the sellers.! Even at 50 satang per kilo profit, you can see she's making a bob or too. She also now has an armed bodyguard with her pretty much permanantly, and a blacked out MPV type vehicle that is popular with politicians. 10 years ago she was just a simple rubber tapper. Nice lady too.

Mike.

[Mosha]

Rubber roads?

[how241]

What methods to buyers use to test the water content? I've heard about taking a small sample and puting it into a drying oven and comparing the before and after weights. Of course, that takes time. Does anyone use a microwave for faster drying of a test sample ?

[jamescollister]

What methods to buyers use to test the water content? I've heard about taking a small sample and puting it into a drying oven and comparing the before and after weights. Of course, that takes time. Does anyone use a microwave for faster drying of a test sample ?

Never heard of using a microwave, but you can buy computerized hydrometers, just like the old float tubes that tell density over water. Been trying to find one, but no luck out here. Think they sell them in the south. Hard to find things on the net, when everything is written in Thai and the wife has the attention span of a goldfish. Jim

[how241]

What methods to buyers use to test the water content? I've heard about taking a small sample and puting it into a drying oven and comparing the before and after weights. Of course, that takes time. Does anyone use a microwave for faster drying of a test sample ?

Never heard of using a microwave, but you can buy computerized hydrometers, just like the old float tubes that tell density over water. Been trying to find one, but no luck out here. Think they sell them in the south. Hard to find things on the net, when everything is written in Thai and the wife has the attention span of a goldfish. Jim

Thanks...I have a similar problem, not reading thai myself.

[how241]

What methods to buyers use to test the water content? I've heard about taking a small sample and puting it into a drying oven and comparing the before and after weights. Of course, that takes time. Does anyone use a microwave for faster drying of a test sample ?

Never heard of using a microwave, but you can buy computerized hydrometers, just like the old float tubes that tell density over water. Been trying to find one, but no luck out here. Think they sell them in the south. Hard to find things on the net, when everything is written in Thai and the wife has the attention span of a goldfish. Jim

If you can send me the link or website, I'll get my Thai g/f to translate it. Thanks

[Mosha]

What methods to buyers use to test the water content? I've heard about taking a small sample and puting it into a drying oven and comparing the before and after weights. Of course, that takes time. Does anyone use a microwave for faster drying of a test sample ?

Never heard of using a microwave, but you can buy computerized hydrometers, just like the old float tubes that tell density over water. Been trying to find one, but no luck out here. Think they sell them in the south. Hard to find things on the net, when everything is written in Thai and the wife has the attention span of a goldfish. Jim

I'm told the one place I know of that buys latex, uses a microwave.

[glennb6]

how,

I tried the micro and a gram scale. works fine but does stink up the kitchen a bit.

[Mosha]

how,

I tried the micro and a gram scale. works fine but does stink up the kitchen a bit.

I don't know Glen, I was just told by a friend, they took their latex to the buyer, who placed a sample in the oven. That's all he told me. I didn't ask for details as it's quite a distance from us, and taking the stuff, would take up too much of my time, plus not as much profit as USS

[jamescollister]

What methods to buyers use to test the water content? I've heard about taking a small sample and puting it into a drying oven and comparing the before and after weights. Of course, that takes time. Does anyone use a microwave for faster drying of a test sample ?

Never heard of using a microwave, but you can buy computerized hydrometers, just like the old float tubes that tell density over water. Been trying to find one, but no luck out here. Think they sell them in the south. Hard to find things on the net, when everything is written in Thai and the wife has the attention span of a goldfish. Jim

I'm told the one place I know of that buys latex, uses a microwave.

I will give a mocro wave a try and see if it comes out the same as using our little home made light oven.

How, if I had a web site I would phone them, that's the problem.

Glenn, how long did you zap them to get it completely dry, high or low power. Jim

[David006]

What methods to buyers use to test the water content? I've heard about taking a small sample and puting it into a drying oven and comparing the before and after weights. Of course, that takes time. Does anyone use a microwave for faster drying of a test sample ?

Never heard of using a microwave, but you can buy computerized hydrometers, just like the old float tubes that tell density over water. Been trying to find one, but no luck out here. Think they sell them in the south. Hard to find things on the net, when everything is written in Thai and the wife has the attention span of a goldfish. Jim

your a legend mate....lol

Just sold at gate yesterday for 34bt wet cup..lets hope it goes up as predicted

take care

david

[Mosha]

^ My wife is the same. She is setting out on the motor bike. I te;; her to get some air in the back tyre. She would pass it in about 3 minutes. A few hours later I'm in the bike. Went for my beer ration. Just as I entered the drive wat, the bike starts handling like it's pissed. Burst/ripped inner tube.

"Did you put some air in the tyre?"

"Loerm (I forgot)"

Clamped my mouth firmly shut, as going further just leads to arguments.

Air 5 baht - repair to tyre 200 baht. Note to mods if you are here, can we have a slap forehead smiley?

[how241]

I would think someone sells a hand-held computerized hydrometers to measure the water content. I don't see one anywhere on the internet. Maybe because the rubber/latex market is limited ?

[scotbeve]

Hi all,

A quick question for any / all of you.... What price are you paying for a full rice bag of dried chicken manure? I've been weaning our area rubber planters (including the missus...) off chemical fertilizers and we're now starting to use chicken poo instead. We were quoted 55 baht per bag and one bag for 3 trees.... That's a whopping 146,000 baht price tag.... ouch. Any other price quotes would be well appreciated. Thx in advance.

[thaiguzzi]

Hi SB,

there have been some new NC type fertilisers available in the past year. Completely different to the regular crap NC dry stuff one normally sees, is it/is'nt it real ? usual questions. This stuff is actually almost moist to the touch, comes in perfectly sized pellets, about the size of a third of your little finger, 2 styles, either completely black, or completely brown. The black one i believe is pretty much neat chickenshit. Prices are the same as the old NC dry type at around 350 baht per 50 kilo sack. Sold only from my reputable ag supplier, he recommends 1-2 bags per rai thrown, not dug in, in Febuary, not in in the rainy season. I will investigate further, but we have already decided to try a bag a rai next year, in feb - march.

Mike.

[cobbler]

What methods to buyers use to test the water content? I've heard about taking a small sample and puting it into a drying oven and comparing the before and after weights. Of course, that takes time. Does anyone use a microwave for faster drying of a test sample ?

Never heard of using a microwave, but you can buy computerized hydrometers, just like the old float tubes that tell density over water. Been trying to find one, but no luck out here. Think they sell them in the south. Hard to find things on the net, when everything is written in Thai and the wife has the attention span of a goldfish. Jim

your a legend mate....lol

Just sold at gate yesterday for 34bt wet cup..lets hope it goes up as predicted

take care

david

Good luck with this gov in power.Even after that Thailand will be left with a wopping 8oo billion to pay off.Or there abouts.Thailand is in for some bad days so tighten up your belts for the long haul. Edited September 25, 2012 by cobbler

[Mosha]

Sold some Kee Yang at 34 Baht. That's down on last week