Rubber Trees

[scotbeve]

Rain guards - you guys actually need to attempt this physically with your own hands on the bark of the tree ! I've tried it, and the only way to stop water getting past is with a semi permanent seal which sets into the bark's skin and all the tiny nooks and crannies. It aint easy, hence you never see rain guards here.

Thaiguzzi,

Yes, you have me there.... I've never had the good fortune to try any rain guards.... And yes, many people have said that they'll get in the way... Still, there might be a chance to be a guinea pig here.... I'll ask my manager.

[Hancho]

Scot , I feel sorry to hear about your trees.. When Nargis storm came in 1998, a lot of rubber plantation got flattened. I try to stay away from the same area when tropical storm can come in again. If everybody start tapping in the rain, I am comfortable doing it next yr since some of my trees are ready to be tapped.

Hi Hancho,

It was my sister-in-law's trees that were ruined. We actually lost 8 out of 8,000.... whewwww! Still going to sell 40% of our plantations/land for sub-divisions.

[Hancho]

Scot, you wanna sell some of your plantation. If I have not bought one already , I might be interested in yours I know global economy outlook is not so good and US and Europe are still trying to dig themselves out of the holes they are in. It might take a little long while before it get better. I still think rubber future is still bright since global population is 7 billion and counting. There is not a lot of land left which is suitable for rubber planting. Well Myanmar is the last frontier for rubber since everywhere in south east Asia is more or less developed. Time are tough for now! Please hang in there!. Cheer!

[tjbricker]

I have a question for you rubber tree guys What is the capital needed to start say a 25 rai rubber tree plantation. And yearly cost until start making money.? would love some honest answers And how many have grown rubber trees before coming to thailand?

[glennb6]

ah, er ahem, I know a nice falang who's selling his 25 rai in Buengkan....

[kolohe]

I have a question for you rubber tree guys What is the capital needed to start say a 25 rai rubber tree plantation. And yearly cost until start making money.? would love some honest answers And how many have grown rubber trees before coming to thailand?

Unfortunately there are so many variables its really hard to get a good estimate on what it will cost. Although I cant give you costs, I hope that giving you some of the factors will help you in your research.

Do you already own the land and looking for cost to plant and maintain until tapping or do you need to buy the land too? The biggest variables of cost is the land. Where the land is located, what kind of title it has and whether it has trees or not are going vary the cost quite a bit. Land can be as little as 70k/rai but as much as 400k/rai or more! If you are planning on planting trees then the costs will vary greatly depending on the density of the trees (trees per rai for total # planted), the type of tree you buy and what stage of growth you buy it in. I know some places you can buy the "sticks" for about 30-35 Baht each and the price goes up depending on how many "levels" of branches the trees have, from 1 to 3. The last place I talked to 3 "chad" was about 80 Baht each I think. Plan on buying 10-15% more than you need due to some of the trees not making it due to any number of factors up to and including your planter's skill (or lack of).

I cant think of the prices off the top of my head right now so I'll just list some of the other factors you'll have to pay for along with some guesses. If anyone has better or more current info, please correct me or add to it. Keep in mind that many of these prices are subject to vary based on regional rates, negotiating ability, connections, farang overrides, etc.

Plow the land (200-300/rai - guess)

People to dig the holes and plant the trees. Sometimes workers are paid by the day (200-300/day per worker), sometimes by the hole/tree planted.

Fertilizer - usually the fertilizer to raise the trees in the bags until you put them in the ground is included or is of minimal cost. Once in the ground you have to buy your own bags. You can go cheap and do it once a year (not recommended), or take care of your trees and feed them at least twice a year. The first couple years you wont need many bags per rai, but once they are bigger you will need more per rai. Plan on 7 years of feeding before you can start cutting. I cant recall what the cost per bag is at the moment.

Regular weed control. Some people really let it go but you really should keep on it and not let the weeds get too high, especially in the early years, you dont want the weeds to over take the trees and/or use up the fertilizer.

Tree growth maintenance. You'll need someone to patrol the trees and break off any new growth from the host of the graft. They will also need to keep the trees going straight, trim branches and keep an eye out for diseases.

Costs will go up if you plan to irrigate and will vary depending on the method.

If you plan on making sheets you will need to build a factory area and buy the proper machines.

Usually workers live on the premises, especially when they are making sheet. They like to keep an eye on their work.. so you may be building a Hongteaw (workers dormitory building).. usually the sheet making area and equipment is attached to this building or nearby.

I am probably missing stuff, its late and past my bed time where I'm at. Hopefully someone else can add to the list or provide some numbers for some of those things.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

-k

[kolohe]

Almost forgot.

You gotta buy collection bowls for every tree as well.

Also, make sure you're well within your budget and have plenty extra for cost overruns because they WILL happen.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[tjbricker]

Looking total cost before first harvest and did anyone do before they came here and heard about it?

[Mosha]

I have a question for you rubber tree guys What is the capital needed to start say a 25 rai rubber tree plantation. And yearly cost until start making money.? would love some honest answers And how many have grown rubber trees before coming to thailand?

25 Rai, you better have another source of income. eg pension

[tjbricker]

I have a question for you rubber tree guys What is the capital needed to start say a 25 rai rubber tree plantation. And yearly cost until start making money.? would love some honest answers And how many have grown rubber trees before coming to thailand?

25 Rai, you better have another source of income. eg pension

So do you do rubber? how much invested and what kind of return? 25 rai not enough. If so tough why are so many on here doing it? or talking about it?

[Mosha]

I have a question for you rubber tree guys What is the capital needed to start say a 25 rai rubber tree plantation. And yearly cost until start making money.? would love some honest answers And how many have grown rubber trees before coming to thailand?

25 Rai, you better have another source of income. eg pension

So do you do rubber? how much invested and what kind of return? 25 rai not enough. If so tough why are so many on here doing it? or talking about it?

OK figures from investment

25 Rai tor bor 5 = 25000 Baht 10 year ago

1800 root stock ritt 251 & 600. @ 6 Baht each

500 re-placements for the ones that died in the 1st year @ 15 Baht each

Pui about 20000 pa

Cutting 3 on 1 off

365 - 50 - 100 = 215 * 3/4 = about 150. (1 year - leaf change - days lost to rain)

Tapper gets 40% of the harvest

Price is heading south approx mod 60's for unsmoked sheets/kg

I have a company pension from UK

[Mosha]

Edit Land 250000 Baht. We are tapping 800 trees as the other half thought it was a good idea to give 500 trees to her daughter. A decent run gives us about 33kg latex/cutting night.

Most expats growing rubber have 100 rai+

[tjbricker]

So i guess my next question would you all sell and get out if wouldnt take a loss. and no i do not want a rubber farm. Why did you get in in the first place?

[scotbeve]

So i guess my next question would you all sell and get out if wouldnt take a loss. and no i do not want a rubber farm. Why did you get in in the first place?

tj,

The rubber prices looked very good and rose from 25 baht/kg. of RSS low humidity to approx 125baht. Some of us calculated the median range of price to 50 baht and acted accordingly. We have 130 rai planted, or approx. 8,100 trees planted at intervals. Average price per tree including: land cost, planting, and all the maintenance was 100 baht / tree up until the first opening. This is a very ROUGH figure and averaged out only for OUR area prices. As stated earlier, there are dozens of variables involved. Start with the land prices first. They can range anywhere from 20,000 - 100,000 per rai......

If I sell 3 different sized/priced plantations, keep 55 - 60 rai, keep my day job for another year or so, and hope that the price doesn't go below 50B / kg., then I'll be happy.....

[Mosha]

So i guess my next question would you all sell and get out if wouldnt take a loss. and no i do not want a rubber farm. Why did you get in in the first place?

Knowing what I know now, I'd have gone for palm oil given my location. However would I sell up? No.

I got into it because my wife wanted some source of income if something happens to me. She can live far more cheaply than I can.

[thaiguzzi]

So i guess my next question would you all sell and get out if wouldnt take a loss. and no i do not want a rubber farm. Why did you get in in the first place?

Yawn.

Ken, Scot and Steve, it appears you have wasted your time replying, hence i am not.

[kolohe]

So i guess my next question would you all sell and get out if wouldnt take a loss. and no i do not want a rubber farm. Why did you get in in the first place?

Why are you so interested in rubber farming if you have no interest having one?

[tjbricker]

So i guess my next question would you all sell and get out if wouldnt take a loss. and no i do not want a rubber farm. Why did you get in in the first place?

Why are you so interested in rubber farming if you have no interest having one?

Well i have an idea for a farming venture and am wondering if us farang's got into rubber just so wife/girlfriend had a fall back plan or if it was something they were passionate about or if just for the money. And am just comparing cost of rubber/land and time to my idea. Mine 5 rai 3yr to profit of 3-5 million baht a yr but like rubber no guaranties but in the last 100 yrs demand has always been more than supply and on this small of scale you would be considered boutique thus raising price of final product.

I did not mean to waste anyones time just if you need solid info you go to the source thanks for all the replies.

[Mosha]

Just asked a friend who works at a local depot USS 70 Baht.

[scotbeve]

So i guess my next question would you all sell and get out if wouldnt take a loss. and no i do not want a rubber farm. Why did you get in in the first place?

Why are you so interested in rubber farming if you have no interest having one?

Well i have an idea for a farming venture and am wondering if us farang's got into rubber just so wife/girlfriend had a fall back plan or if it was something they were passionate about or if just for the money. And am just comparing cost of rubber/land and time to my idea. Mine 5 rai 3yr to profit of 3-5 million baht a yr but like rubber no guaranties but in the last 100 yrs demand has always been more than supply and on this small of scale you would be considered boutique thus raising price of final product.

I did not mean to waste anyones time just if you need solid info you go to the source thanks for all the replies.

Tj,

So you're planning on planting some saffron or the likes of some expensive product then??? I'm asking for this info mutually.

[wijar]

So i guess my next question would you all sell and get out if wouldnt take a loss. and no i do not want a rubber farm. Why did you get in in the first place?

Why are you so interested in rubber farming if you have no interest having one?

Well i have an idea for a farming venture and am wondering if us farang's got into rubber just so wife/girlfriend had a fall back plan or if it was something they were passionate about or if just for the money. And am just comparing cost of rubber/land and time to my idea. Mine 5 rai 3yr to profit of 3-5 million baht a yr but like rubber no guaranties but in the last 100 yrs demand has always been more than supply and on this small of scale you would be considered boutique thus raising price of final product.

I did not mean to waste anyones time just if you need solid info you go to the source thanks for all the replies.

Tj,

So you're planning on planting some saffron or the likes of some expensive product then??? I'm asking for this info mutually.

I am not sure, but to achieve a return of 3-5 mil per annum on 5 rai, you'd have to be planting a illegal crop like the the 5 fingered leaf plants. Not advisable.

To make that kind of return with rubber you'd need about 500 rai of land, and a lot of trustworthy employees. Wim

[SonnyWaxmo]

Anyone ever transplanted a tree? I just dug up a four meter one and moved it ,it's three year old and I tried to keep a bit of soil around it but it all fell off ,all the leaves fell off and it's been three weeks now .No new leaves yet ,I think it's doomed but was just interested to know if it can be done or has been done successfully by anyone one out there .

Thanks .

Hey have been away from the forum for a while but I would like to share with you what my friend, the gardener taught me.

1.A tree has equal roots as the tree volume above the ground.

2.The tree takes nutrition to the same diameter as the tree crown.

3.Give no, or very little fertilizer at planting, it burns the roots. Water however, it might not be too much of, as long as it drops away.

4.If moving a tree, doing most of the errors in preserving as much of the crown of the tree as possible.

Do this instead, assess how much roots you can get in on the move. Remember the ratio of 1 to 1.

Let's say you only got 50% undamaged roots, cut the tree down by 50%. Then access more similar need.

5.If a tree turns out sick in the head is the fault of the feet. It urged the highest placed branches showing signs of disease, it is a problem with the roots.

6.If the attack comes from fungus or bacteria turns the characters turns out all over the whole tree.

Hope it can help someone at the next tree removal.

Best regards

Sonny

[thaiguzzi]

Sonny,

+1 on everything you said.

[SonnyWaxmo]

Price have slowly riced a Little the last days, Anybody sold som cup lump the last Days?

What was the best price?

Now when the price is not to good my brain start to think about less work and solutions for more effectivie tapping.

There have been some posts before on continuous airless tapping Equipment, anybody have some news?

Sonny

[Mosha]

Price have slowly riced a Little the last days, Anybody sold som cup lump the last Days?

What was the best price?

Now when the price is not to good my brain start to think about less work and solutions for more effectivie tapping.

There have been some posts before on continuous airless tapping Equipment, anybody have some news?

Sonny

Sold kee yang yesterday 38 baht, but not fully dry.

[kwonitoy]

Cup rubber today's action was 40.5 baht per kilo.

First sale of the year was 37, then 39 and then now this price, if it keeps up this trend for a couple of years we'll be back on the gravey train again

[gregj69]

Cup rubber today's action was 40.5 baht per kilo.

First sale of the year was 37, then 39 and then now this price, if it keeps up this trend for a couple of years we'll be back on the gravey train again

We only got 36 baht for cup a couple of days ago. What is this about airless tapping? I must of missed something.

[SonnyWaxmo]

Cup rubber today's action was 40.5 baht per kilo.

First sale of the year was 37, then 39 and then now this price, if it keeps up this trend for a couple of years we'll be back on the gravey train again

We only got 36 baht for cup a couple of days ago. What is this about airless tapping? I must of missed something.

There where a discussion of this Equipment in march 2012, buy that was all. I did some small experiments before. I used addhesive aluminum tape to protect the cut from wind, air and sun. My idea was that the tree should bleed for maybee 12 hours insted of normal 5-6 hours. Whife explained for me all about ting-tong falangs with ting-tong ideas. Guess who was righ? But my filosofy is been ther tried that, but bad idea. Next one........

Anyone knows something more?

Sonny

[gregj69]

Cup rubber today's action was 40.5 baht per kilo.

First sale of the year was 37, then 39 and then now this price, if it keeps up this trend for a couple of years we'll be back on the gravey train again

We only got 36 baht for cup a couple of days ago. What is this about airless tapping? I must of missed something.

There where a discussion of this Equipment in march 2012, buy that was all. I did some small experiments before. I used addhesive aluminum tape to protect the cut from wind, air and sun. My idea was that the tree should bleed for maybee 12 hours insted of normal 5-6 hours. Whife explained for me all about ting-tong falangs with ting-tong ideas. Guess who was righ? But my filosofy is been ther tried that, but bad idea. Next one........

Anyone knows something more?

Sonny

Thanks Sonny

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[thaiguzzi]

Kee yang, 40.80 baht per kilo, auction, Udon yesterday according to the missus. I'm in England at the mo, enjoying the balmy summer weather, wearing Thai type clothing - shorts and flip flops. Rubber futures are looking not bad for the remaining year, with Bridgestone expecting a 5% hike in prices from suppliers. Fingers crossed.