Rubber Trees

[ad61]

Just sold half a ton of non-smoked sheets @ 75 Baht/kg; prices are climbing slowly.

[Mosha]

Just sold half a ton of non-smoked sheets @ 75 Baht/kg; prices are climbing slowly.

Also Wet Kee Yang sold for 34.

[imokg2g]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/367780/b5-62bn-subsidy-fund-for-rubber-farmers-approved-by-cabinet Edited September 3, 2013 by imokg2g

[Mosha]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/367780/b5-62bn-subsidy-fund-for-rubber-farmers-approved-by-cabinet

Just letting you know you can't link to BP.

[imokg2g]

With reference to an article found on the Bangkok Post website titled "subsidy-fund-for-rubber-farmers-approved-by-cabinet"

Greetings all, I'm a long time follower of this forum however this is my first related post. I'd like to prompt discussion in relation to the article and the likelihood that scheme will be paid out. The article claims that 980 000 of the 990 000 farmers whom 'registered' for the scheme will be paid out - can anybody clarify in which regions farmers were offered registration? Or was this one of the agreements that rubber representatives in the North East agreed upon last week?

In my opinion this a deceptive attempt to detract attention away from achieving a sustainable long-term outcome for rubber farmers - the short-term prospect of up to 12600baht is hardly a compromise. With that said, if I were a rubber farmer I'd be first in line, the last two or so months have been tough.

My apologies if this topic was previously raised.

[imokg2g]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/367780/b5-62bn-subsidy-fund-for-rubber-farmers-approved-by-cabinet

Just letting you know you can't link to BP.

I had no idea - Thanks for pointing that out. You'll have to forgive me, I don't post regularly on TV :-S

[Mosha]

With reference to an article found on the Bangkok Post website titled "subsidy-fund-for-rubber-farmers-approved-by-cabinet"

Greetings all, I'm a long time follower of this forum however this is my first related post. I'd like to prompt discussion in relation to the article and the likelihood that scheme will be paid out. The article claims that 980 000 of the 990 000 farmers whom 'registered' for the scheme will be paid out - can anybody clarify in which regions farmers were offered registration? Or was this one of the agreements that rubber representatives in the North East agreed upon last week?

In my opinion this a deceptive attempt to detract attention away from achieving a sustainable long-term outcome for rubber farmers - the short-term prospect of up to 12600baht is hardly a compromise. With that said, if I were a rubber farmer I'd be first in line, the last two or so months have been tough.

My apologies if this topic was previously raised.

I can't get how a family manage on 10 Rai. That's around 700 - 750 trees.

[Dakling]

I don't think that anyone gets rich with 10 rai or less but I think they can get by.

My wife's older sister and her husband have 6 rai of good looking trees that are only 5 years old. They struggle and have to work really hard now doing labour work for others, to make about 1/2 what the trees would bring in in a month. Since they will be cutting their own trees they will keep 100% of the production.

There is one family here that do allot with their 7-10 rai rubber farm, (not exactly sure how much they have). They live in a little house/shack on the farm, they also have run netting around 1/2 the trees and keep ducks under the trees. They are constantly trying other inter-crops and other things that they can grow under the canopy. My guess is that they aren't getting rich but I think they do pretty good by local standards. I see another guy in our area that has 10 rai he cuts in the mornings and then he does contract tractor work in the afternoons.

Nice to see that not everyone fits into the stereotypes.

[thaiguzzi]

# One family can get by quite comfortably on 10 rai if their takings are 100% and they have no outgoings like truck/motorcycle monthly payments or sending kids to university etc. Otherwise a struggle.

# Govt payouts never happen, remember storm damaged trees 3-5k per tree - nada, nothing. Spoke to the missus, she reckons IF she applied - would be fobbed off, wait, wait, wait - ie zilch.

Mike.

[Mosha]

If they apply the same rules about land title to rubber like they did rice. ie Chanote. That's going to leave a lot of folk ticked off.

[thaiguzzi]

If they apply the same rules about land title to rubber like they did rice. ie Chanote. That's going to leave a lot of folk ticked off.

+1.

Exactly.

[imokg2g]

If they apply the same rules about land title to rubber like they did rice. ie Chanote. That's going to leave a lot of folk ticked off.

Is that to say only Chanote land titles, if at all, would likely be paid? If so that is ridiculous but not surprising. I believe the vast majority of agricultural land in the South may be Chanote, but in Isaan we're mostly talking Sor Por Kor and Tor Bor 5. And forget those who have encroached on protected forests or national parks.

Call me naive for relying on news articles from the BKK Post, but I believe the government has agreed to payouts for upto 25 rai of rubber sheet with a proposal of a guaranteed 100 baht for sheet - this offer was apparently rejected yesterday.

[scotbeve]

If they apply the same rules about land title to rubber like they did rice. ie Chanote. That's going to leave a lot of folk ticked off.

I personally won't mind the chanote rules. ALL our land has proper chanotes (took MANY years to get them all...).

[gregj69]

If they apply the same rules about land title to rubber like they did rice. ie Chanote. That's going to leave a lot of folk ticked off.

I personally won't mind the chanote rules. ALL our land has proper chanotes (took MANY years to get them all...).

IMHO If they do give anything at all AND apply similar rules to chanote and nor sor sam, the farmers in Issan will mostly get nothing as 90% of the farming land is PTB5 or sor por gor. The people that need it the most will get nothing and those rich enough to have titles will get what little is left after "administration costs". The only long term solution is to develop markets that increase global demand for natural rubber. Should be embedding carpet tacks in all the roads in the highly developed countries.

[Mosha]

If they apply the same rules about land title to rubber like they did rice. ie Chanote. That's going to leave a lot of folk ticked off.

I personally won't mind the chanote rules. ALL our land has proper chanotes (took MANY years to get them all...).

IMHO If they do give anything at all AND apply similar rules to chanote and nor sor sam, the farmers in Issan will mostly get nothing as 90% of the farming land is PTB5 or sor por gor. The people that need it the most will get nothing and those rich enough to have titles will get what little is left after "administration costs". The only long term solution is to develop markets that increase global demand for natural rubber. Should be embedding carpet tacks in all the roads in the highly developed countries.

Most of the rubber in this Amphoe is grown on steep slopes. No chance of Chanote.

[David48]

Now ... don't flame me too hard as the gf's parents are Fish Farmers, and I'm sitting their FarmHouse now after breaking bread spooning the rice now for a long time but ...

I find it absolutely crazy that Farmers can demand handouts from the government, be it for rice or rubber or whatever commodity they are growing.

Most of you will have come from a market driven economy (except the French) ... so how do you feel with 'skin in the game' about the government diverting, or even worse, borrowing money instead of building roads, paying nurses etc to compensate the Farmer for his/her harvest?

[lenna00]

http://www.afet.or.th/v081/english/

so if they make a losing bet they scream for their money back. typical scammers.

Edited September 6, 2013 by lenna00

[Mosha]

Now ... don't flame me too hard as the gf's parents are Fish Farmers, and I'm sitting their FarmHouse now after breaking bread spooning the rice now for a long time but ...

I find it absolutely crazy that Farmers can demand handouts from the government, be it for rice or rubber or whatever commodity they are growing.

Most of you will have come from a market driven economy (except the French) ... so how do you feel with 'skin in the game' about the government diverting, or even worse, borrowing money instead of building roads, paying nurses etc to compensate the Farmer for his/her harvest?

I agree 100% David. They opened a pandoras box with the rice scheme. That no government without a coup in between will be able to stop. Even then there will be a major backlash. Lack of education is at the root, and telling people what the world will pay.

I've no idea what the price of rice is, on the international stage. Rubber is about 80 may be a little higher. We sold USS last week at 75. Let the market sort the price, instead subsidise the feed.

[Mosha]

http://www.afet.or.th/v081/english/

so if they make a losing bet they scream for their money back. typical scammers.

STR20 is that Unsmoked Sheets (USS)?

[Dakling]

Regarding the rubber price guarantee issue, I also think this is a huge mistake if it goes through.

As with the rice scheme the only people who will see a nickel of the money are those who are on the take. The local buyers will find 1 million reasons why they farmers rubber doesn't qualify when they buy it and then they will split the price difference with the big buyers and factories who will kick money back to the local gov't officials and police to make sure that everyone keeps quiet about it. The net result will be the same as the rice scheme only 5% of the money will ever make it to the farmers. My guess is they will start trucking the stuff in from the other side of the Mekong if there is a big enough price difference from the real market. All that this program will do is line the pockets of all the wrong people and 2 or 3 years down the road they will end up flooding the market with all the crap they bought but couldn't sell. What do you think the price will be when that happens?

<excuse the outraged rant bit that starts here>

All these great government subsidies don't work in the west either (where corruption is at least less blatant).

For exampe look at biofuels...what a great idea that was.....you set up a phoney market via subsidies and tax credits to produce an inferior fuel that has a larger carbon footprint and is more harmful to the environment than conventional fuels. Then you force everyone from vehicle manufacturers to refiners to support the new fuel. Next you get everyone feeling good about how environmentally friendly it is to farm fuels rather than drill for them regardless of the nasty secret that big farming is likely the most environmentally damaging industry in the world.

Oh and by the way you haven't done the poor many favours now that no one actually grows food anymore so the prices for basic staples are soaring. Oh and the other slightly nasty nasty secret is that recoverable hydrocarbon reserves have been growing over the past few years so the chicken little story that we will soon run out is getting a bit tired as well.

<ok rant over>

They would do the local farmers a much bigger favour if they took the money they are about to throw away on this hedging scheme and hire a bunch of surveyors and get all the titles converted to chanote. Granted then you would still see people wanting tea money to bump your place up in the queue.

Another idea would be to give farmers low interest loans to help them survive and care for their trees while the trees are too young to cut, that would really help the small guys that the government is supposedly trying to help. Even the local bank charges 3% per month for loans (ie. close to 40% per year with compounding). The local money lenders are even more perverse loaning out money at 10% per month. Granted any money loaning scheme would also be wide open for abuse.

Anyhow no one is going to change anything based on my rants so lets all have another Leo and enjoy farm life...........

[thaiguzzi]

Sold yesterday at auction, Udon province, kee yang 46.30 baht per kg... and still going up...

[Mosha]

As I suspected. From the news forum.

"Only landowners will benefit"

[Dakling]

Absolutely surprised but my Mrs's mom came home today with forms for us to fill out that do not require chanote titiles. If we do get the 2500 baht per rai I will be shocked (but in a good way). If I learn more I will post more.

[Dakling]

Regarding the 2500 baht per rai, we are getting lots of runaround about paperwork and trying to find the local village big men to get stuff signed. It doesn't seem like anyone knows what is really required to apply. My guess is agreeing to let the local village headman to keep 1/2 the money will be the last step.

[Mosha]

I need to visit the head banging tree.

Wife "I tell them we get 5,000kg per year from the trees.'

Me "Where the heck did that number from?"

Wife "Person in front of me had 12 Rai, and he wrote 2,500kg"

Me "Brilliant, you gave 500 trees to Thip (daughter), Jor is tapping about 800 trees for us. Your number is way out."

Wife. "Oh I forgot, I go change.'

Except the headman would not search out her name in the book.

[Mosha]

USS 76.5

Wet Kee Yanf 42

[Mosha]

Unless it's lost in translation. Wife says Tor Bor 5 land no longer exists

[Dakling]

Not sure about Tor Bor 5 but in our area they are trying to clean up the land title issues and give everyone Chanotes. I am not holding my breath on it but it would be very nice if it happens.

[cobbler]

Unless it's lost in translation. Wife says Tor Bor 5 land no longer exists

Hmmm

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[cobbler]

Not sure about Tor Bor 5 but in our area they are trying to clean up the land title issues and give everyone Chanotes. I am not holding my breath on it but it would be very nice if it happens.

If that story is getting around.You can be sure there is some gov pollitition or big council guy wanting a lot of his land to be made chanort so he can sell it or build a resort on it or something like that

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