Why Are They Fighting Down South...?

[IMA_FARANG]

The "root" cause goes back centuries.

Those provinces are more Malay than Thai...even before there was a Malaysia and a Thailand their history was different. In the colonial days they were also controlled by different colonial powers

The Buddhist (Thai) and Muslim (Malay) history of those provinces also devides them culturally.

Those provinces used to be part of Malaysia...even though the country wasn't even caled Malaysia then, it was part of the British Empire under English control. They were "given" to Thai control in the last century or so by an agreement among the then Colonial power...mainly Britain and France

A terrrorist/separtist/independence/freedom fighter group Known as the Pattani United Liberation Front...whatever your political view of their stated cause is...wants independence or at least seperation from Thai control for those provinces.

So it all goes back to different religions, different cultural traditions, and different colonial powers that controlled them a couple of centuries ago.

In the last century also, more "Thai" people have moved to those provinces and the "local" Malays feel threatened by those "Thais" moving into their area.

The whole thing is a big mess...but that's human beings for you.

[roamer]

Many say that the issue of autonomy/independance for the 3 southern provinces is simply an old excuse for the current troubles, and that the real reasons are more to do with local drug barons and mafia groups fighting each other for the rewards of their criminal activities

Simon

Absolutely agree with that.

In Europe we have the same problem in Spain and Ireland. It has nothing to do with politic or religion, it's just mafia, drug runners. The only solution is to get rid of these people, by any means.

Simon you surprise me.

Jurgen, can you elaborate on your theory ? Its certainly different. Assuming "these people" exist, what does it mean to get rid of these people "by any means" ?

[sbk]

Many say that the issue of autonomy/independance for the 3 southern provinces is simply an old excuse for the current troubles, and that the real reasons are more to do with local drug barons and mafia groups fighting each other for the rewards of their criminal activities

Simon

Absolutely agree with that.

In Europe we have the same problem in Spain and Ireland. It has nothing to do with politic or religion, it's just mafia, drug runners. The only solution is to get rid of these people, by any means.

Simon you surprise me.

Jurgen, can you elaborate on your theory ? Its certainly different. Assuming "these people" exist, what does it mean to get rid of these people "by any means" ?

Actually, simon's response is very similar to what Muslim people from the area who moved to the island to escape protection rackets and thuggery have told me.

[roamer]

Many say that the issue of autonomy/independance for the 3 southern provinces is simply an old excuse for the current troubles, and that the real reasons are more to do with local drug barons and mafia groups fighting each other for the rewards of their criminal activities

Simon

Absolutely agree with that.

In Europe we have the same problem in Spain and Ireland. It has nothing to do with politic or religion, it's just mafia, drug runners. The only solution is to get rid of these people, by any means.

Simon you surprise me.

Jurgen, can you elaborate on your theory ? Its certainly different. Assuming "these people" exist, what does it mean to get rid of these people "by any means" ?

Actually, simon's response is very similar to what Muslim people from the area who moved to the island to escape protection rackets and thuggery have told me.

Well yes, of course. Any criminal element will move in and exploit the situation. It is however a far cry from that to ascribe the problems in the south to mafia and drug dealers. In actual fact if that is the case then you may as well say Thailand is on its way to becoming a failed state. Interested to know where the drug dealing fits in, would think the drugs bust in LOS are very heavily concentrated from Phuket to Chiang Rai. The border with Malaysia does not strike me as a natural opportunity for drug smugglers.

The cruel reality of any guerrilla war situation is also that the civilian population lives in a state of fear, though given the Thai governments actions in the south you could understand people down there feeling caught between rock and a hard place.

What is truly astounding by any standards is the failure by successive administrations to deal with the problem. For the moment you may well have criminal elements exploiting the situation but it won't always be that way. Failure to enter into constructive dialogue will inevitably ensure that at some point this moves to a wider stage, no longer contained to the deep south, not a nice thought.

[simon43]

Well I tried to nutshell things as this is such a deep issue however Simon is (for once) is way off the mark.

Actually, I deliberately left out the historical details, (which I previously studied in depth at Chulalongkorn University as part of an MA in Thai Studies, even going as far to learn to read historical documents written in Yawi/Jawi).

Those historical details provided by others in this thread are reasonably well known and correct, but it's my own opinion that the escalation of violence in the Deep South is being committed in the name of history, and those committing these acts couldn't give a flying <deleted> about autonomy or independance - all they are interested in is their drug money/corruption money/power etc etc.

I do not believe that the vast majority of Muslims living in those provinces want independance from Thailand. But they (and their Buddhist neighbours), do want to be able to live without fear of violent attack or intimidation and freedom to practice their religion.

Simon

Edited May 15, 2011 by simon43

[zzaa09]

The "root" cause goes back centuries.

Those provinces are more Malay than Thai...even before there was a Malaysia and a Thailand their history was different. In the colonial days they were also controlled by different colonial powers

The Buddhist (Thai) and Muslim (Malay) history of those provinces also devides them culturally.

Those provinces used to be part of Malaysia...even though the country wasn't even caled Malaysia then, it was part of the British Empire under English control. They were "given" to Thai control in the last century or so by an agreement among the then Colonial power...mainly Britain and France

A terrrorist/separtist/independence/freedom fighter group Known as the Pattani United Liberation Front...whatever your political view of their stated cause is...wants independence or at least seperation from Thai control for those provinces.

So it all goes back to different religions, different cultural traditions, and different colonial powers that controlled them a couple of centuries ago.

In the last century also, more "Thai" people have moved to those provinces and the "local" Malays feel threatened by those "Thais" moving into their area.

The whole thing is a big mess...but that's human beings for you.

As the six {or four} southern provinces are seen as supposed separatists states, the tide of historic blame tends to be much more contemporary. The turbulent years of Hari Merdeka and the Malayan Emergency played a pivotal role to today's consciousness and social uprisings. Hypothetically, if Malaya {Malaysia} had remained {through today} a colony of the British crown, would the southern insurgency be as wide-spread as a political movement......less a "religious" or social one?

[StreetCowboy]

The "root" cause goes back centuries.

Those provinces are more Malay than Thai...even before there was a Malaysia and a Thailand their history was different. In the colonial days they were also controlled by different colonial powers

The Buddhist (Thai) and Muslim (Malay) history of those provinces also devides them culturally.

Those provinces used to be part of Malaysia...even though the country wasn't even caled Malaysia then, it was part of the British Empire under English control. They were "given" to Thai control in the last century or so by an agreement among the then Colonial power...mainly Britain and France

A terrrorist/separtist/independence/freedom fighter group Known as the Pattani United Liberation Front...whatever your political view of their stated cause is...wants independence or at least seperation from Thai control for those provinces.

So it all goes back to different religions, different cultural traditions, and different colonial powers that controlled them a couple of centuries ago.

In the last century also, more "Thai" people have moved to those provinces and the "local" Malays feel threatened by those "Thais" moving into their area.

The whole thing is a big mess...but that's human beings for you.

Its probably inappropriate to talk about the historic Malay sultanates as 'Malaysia', because the idea of federation was basically a British administrative convenience. In the absence of the British crown to protect them, those sultanates would probably have been picked off by whatever nation state could exert power in the region - whether that was another European power or Thailand. However, the cries for self-determination are less well-supported when one's country is ruled by one's neighbour or federated with one's neighbour (Tibet, Payes Basque, Scotland, the former Soviet republics, the states of Yugoslavia etc) - and also when one's country has never been an independent nation state.

SC

Interestingly enough, though quite irrelevant, the yellow brothel signs in Mongkok refer to Thai girls as 'ma lai' girl (sorry - don't know Cantonese pronunciation for girl) (and Chinese girls as northern girl)

[mightyharriss]

find the extreme muslims that are killing children and publicly execute every last one of them

[StreetCowboy]

find the extreme muslims that are killing children and publicly execute every last one of them

We need more martyrs. Then we can get the Americans in to take the jihad to the next level.

Do you think that pantomime actually discourages anyone?

What about the petty gangsters that kill children? Or the professional terrorists that kill adults? Or the people that provide the funding, through Noraid, to these people?

Perhaps it would be a step in the right direction to enforce the law in accordance with the law.

SC

[beautifulthailand99]

911 , Bin Laden and the rise of global islamic jihadism are also part of this (very well documented by previous posters ) mix. My departed Thai father in law was a policeman based in the South and was trained over at Langley by the CIA to assinate communists in the south during the Vietnam war when Thailand was basically and airstrip for the American military and a bulwark against the rise of communism in the region. A lot of atrocities were performed by the Thai Village Scouts in the name of defence of the Realm . A murky and dark time in Thailand's history and the reason you yanks alone among farangs can own land and businesses outright.

BTW he was haunted by what he did and carried the nightmares to his grave - no pension or thanks from the US as ever they move on leaving chaos and tragedy in their wake.

Edited May 31, 2011 by beautifulthailand99