UK Visitor Visa Refusal

[WHITESAND]

I have a friend who's partner despite having had 3 previous visits to the U.K. for 6 months at a time, has just been refused this years visitor visa. The reason being she was not well so he took her to his G.P. his G.P understood she spent 6 months of every year in the U.K. and told him she was a temporay resident so had him fill out some forms and was given a national health number. She was precribed medicine which he paid for. She was also taken to an emergency room on another occasion. Also in the application they included a T.B test (required for settlement) but realised they would not be able to do 6 months in each country if they applied for this type of visa.

So the embassy are not happy that she has a national health number she is not entitled too and a T.B. test leads them to believe that at some point she may have been planning not to return to Thailand.

How can he sought this mess out? He is getting on in years so its difficult to get accurate info.

If he did apply for a settlement visa how many months a year would she be able to return to Thailand?

Please any helpful info would be grateful.

[meatboy]

how did she get a n.i.no.she would have had to take her passport to the job centre to veryfi her status and then they send all details to newcastle before she receives it,this is another case of someone not doing their job properly,she must have a settlement visa first,this will allow her to spend some time in los,then after 2years apply for ilr,unless the goalposts have been moved again,i think the embassy was quite right to refuse someone has some explaining to do.

[WHITESAND]

how did she get a n.i.no.she would have had to take her passport to the job centre to veryfi her status and then they send all details to newcastle before she receives it,this is another case of someone not doing their job properly,she must have a settlement visa first,this will allow her to spend some time in los,then after 2years apply for ilr,unless the goalposts have been moved again,i think the embassy was quite right to refuse someone has some explaining to do.

I just spoke to him again and she has only ever been to his GP who had him register her at his surgery. So hopefully this is not a national insurance number and that he has not billed the NHS for anything. I just sent the doctor a fax to ask him and he also told me the reason they had the TB test was because the vultures that hang around outside VFS told him it was a new rule everybody has to have one. Hoping a letter from this doctor and an explanation will sort this out.

[VisasPlus]

With respect, the only way you will be able to get good, correct advice is to post the Refusal Notice. If we can see the actual reasons for refusal, then the forum may be able to assist. Alternatively, if your friend is in the Pattaya area, then they can call in to our office, and I will be happy to take a look at the documents.

[theoldgit]

Did the refusal notice actually say that the visa was declined because the applicant had a National Insurance number, or is this a supposition? Also did they comment on the inclusion of the TB Certificate?

In your post you indicate that your friends partner had spent six months in the UK for the last three years and was simply applying for this years visa, this leads me to believe that she is attempting to use the Tourist Visa to live in the UK for six months every year and maybe circumnavigating the settlement visa application system, I wouldn't be surprised if the ECO thought along the same lines when declining the application.

[theoldgit]

Your keyboard works much quicker than mine VP

[Ginkas]

"how did she get a n.i.no"

"because the applicant had a National Insurance number"

Just to clarify:

The OP said the lady received NHS treatment,

This means she was issued with an NHS No - National Health Number

Not an NI No - National Insurance Number.

The two are quite different and issued for different reasons.

Hope this clears up any confusion.

[WHITESAND]

Did the refusal notice actually say that the visa was declined because the applicant had a National Insurance number, or is this a supposition? Also did they comment on the inclusion of the TB Certificate?

In your post you indicate that your friends partner had spent six months in the UK for the last three years and was simply applying for this years visa, this leads me to believe that she is attempting to use the Tourist Visa to live in the UK for six months every year and maybe circumnavigating the settlement visa application system, I wouldn't be surprised if the ECO thought along the same lines when declining the application.

If she went for a settlement visa she would not be able to spend 6 months in Thailand, so a visit visa would appear to be the correct visa for her would it not?

[ThaiVisaExpress]

You may well qualify for a settlement visa (if you marry) however as you have used public funds whilst on a Tourist Visa you may well struggle to get another one.

The onus is on you to address the issues of your refusal.

If you are on a Settlement visa you may come and go as you please however it may affect future applications for ILR.

[NanLaew]

I guess too much information was given in the visa application regarding the NI and/or NHS number and having already had medical treatment. Despite that, the fact that there does appear to be a trend of spending 6 months each year in the UK and not proceeding with a more appropriate visa application, the admission of using the NHS of prior visits was just the.... nail in the coffin!

However, the fact that the lady lied to the doctor about her 'temporary residence' and thus obtained subsidised medical treatment without entitlement needs to be resolved first.

The OP's friend should go further than just getting a letter from the UK doctor explaining why she was signed up. If she had a consultation then there is a bill to be paid. If there were any prescriptions issued, that also needs to be paid in full. Armed with proof of that being resolved, it's possible that the 'honest mistake' of the UK doctor AND the lady AND her sponsor may be taken out of the conundrum.

Then apply for the proper settlement visa.

[theoldgit]

If she went for a settlement visa she would not be able to spend 6 months in Thailand, so a visit visa would appear to be the correct visa for her would it not?

But then again a general visa is not designed for somebody who wants to spend six months on holiday in the UK every year, this would have been the fourth year.

As I expected the ECO clearly wasn't convinced this was a genuine tourist visit.

[VisasPlus]

The refusal notice says that she has an NI number and has used the NHS for medical treatment. I can't see that this, if it is true, could have happened by accident, and it will certainly take some explaining away before another visit visa is issued. I do wonder, however, how/why this information was included in the visa application ? Why would anyone want to tell the visa officer that they had an NI number ? Maybe the applicant and her husband think that this is normal for visitors to the UK ?

I suspect that it will now be very difficult, if not impossible, to get another General Visit visa. However, if you are in the Pattaya area, please drop in to the office for a chat.

[Contractor]

The refusal notice says that she has an NI number and has used the NHS for medical treatment. I can't see that this, if it is true, could have happened by accident, and it will certainly take some explaining away before another visit visa is issued....

I suspect that it will now be very difficult, if not impossible, to get another General Visit visa....

Agreed. Similar to another recent thread, I do not think this can be explained away by a GP making a mistake or handing out incorrect immigration advice. What forms were signed? I can understand the ECO being suspicious.

I think you will have to satisfy the grounds of a settlement visa next time. Anyway, good luck.

[WHITESAND]

The refusal notice says that she has an NI number and has used the NHS for medical treatment. I can't see that this, if it is true, could have happened by accident, and it will certainly take some explaining away before another visit visa is issued. I do wonder, however, how/why this information was included in the visa application ? Why would anyone want to tell the visa officer that they had an NI number ? Maybe the applicant and her husband think that this is normal for visitors to the UK ?

I suspect that it will now be very difficult, if not impossible, to get another General Visit visa. However, if you are in the Pattaya area, please drop in to the office for a chat.

Its one of the questions "Do you have a national insurance number" but I do think its more likely she has a national health number and he was confused about it. He did pay for the prescription and we have sent a fax to the doctor to ask if he has billed the national health service for anything.

[Eff1n2ret]

The refusal notice says that she has an NI number and has used the NHS for medical treatment. I can't see that this, if it is true, could have happened by accident, and it will certainly take some explaining away before another visit visa is issued. I do wonder, however, how/why this information was included in the visa application ? Why would anyone want to tell the visa officer that they had an NI number ? Maybe the applicant and her husband think that this is normal for visitors to the UK ?

I suspect that it will now be very difficult, if not impossible, to get another General Visit visa. However, if you are in the Pattaya area, please drop in to the office for a chat.

Don't you think the most likely explanation is careless terminology on the part of the ECO in confusing NI and NHS Nos., as has occcurred in this thread?

[VisasPlus]

The refusal notice says that she has an NI number and has used the NHS for medical treatment. I can't see that this, if it is true, could have happened by accident, and it will certainly take some explaining away before another visit visa is issued. I do wonder, however, how/why this information was included in the visa application ? Why would anyone want to tell the visa officer that they had an NI number ? Maybe the applicant and her husband think that this is normal for visitors to the UK ?

I suspect that it will now be very difficult, if not impossible, to get another General Visit visa. However, if you are in the Pattaya area, please drop in to the office for a chat.

Don't you think the most likely explanation is careless terminology on the part of the ECO in confusing NI and NHS Nos., as has occcurred in this thread?

That is a possibility, of course. If so, then a suitably worded letter to the ECM might work wonders. I guess they might have given the NHS number in the question regarding NI number, and then given the reason for getting it as having needed to have medical treatment ? If so, then the type of treatment might come into play ? Emergency, or otherwise.

[VisasPlus]

The refusal notice says that she has an NI number and has used the NHS for medical treatment. I can't see that this, if it is true, could have happened by accident, and it will certainly take some explaining away before another visit visa is issued. I do wonder, however, how/why this information was included in the visa application ? Why would anyone want to tell the visa officer that they had an NI number ? Maybe the applicant and her husband think that this is normal for visitors to the UK ?

I suspect that it will now be very difficult, if not impossible, to get another General Visit visa. However, if you are in the Pattaya area, please drop in to the office for a chat.

Its one of the questions "Do you have a national insurance number" but I do think its more likely she has a national health number and he was confused about it. He did pay for the prescription and we have sent a fax to the doctor to ask if he has billed the national health service for anything.

I should have added, " Why would anyone.................... and go into detail about having NHS treatment ? Maybe the applicant and, etc ......................" If he/they paid only for the prescription then I doubt that there has been an NHS bill prepared. It certainly does seem that there has been an abuse of the NHS system, either intentionally or unintentionally.

[NanLaew]

Where on the visit visa application does it ask if the applicant has an NI number?

[paully]

Where on the visit visa application does it ask if the applicant has an NI number?

Question 6.8?

6.8 Do you have a UK National Insurance number?[/Quote]

If you answer 'yes', you then have to complete the box entitled

Reason for getting a National Insurance number[/Quote]

[7by7]

Form VAF1A, question 6.8.

It is possible for a visitor to have legitimately obtained a NI number on a previous stay in the UK, if there as a student or worker for example.

I'm wondering why they applied for a general visit visa which cannot be appealed, rather than a family visit visa which can be.

Edit, paully beat me to it.

[WHITESAND]

Form VAF1A, question 6.8.

It is possible for a visitor to have legitimately obtained a NI number on a previous stay in the UK, if there as a student or worker for example.

I'm wondering why they applied for a general visit visa which cannot be appealed, rather than a family visit visa which can be.

Edit, paully beat me to it.

I had no idea a general visit visa could not be appealed. So if his doctor sends a letter to say the NHS was not billed anything or was by mistake, then they will not even look at it?

Also the refusal does not rearly accuse her of abuse of the system, just that they believe she may not return.

Should he maybe just apply for settlement visa? if this doctor feels he may have made a mistake he may not reply.

Would he rearly need to get married? After at least 6 years together they must be considered common law husband and wife.

[Contractor]

Form VAF1A, question 6.8.

It is possible for a visitor to have legitimately obtained a NI number on a previous stay in the UK, if there as a student or worker for example.

I'm wondering why they applied for a general visit visa which cannot be appealed, rather than a family visit visa which can be.

Edit, paully beat me to it.

I had no idea a general visit visa could not be appealed. So if his doctor sends a letter to say the NHS was not billed anything or was by mistake, then they will not even look at it?

Also the refusal does not rearly accuse her of abuse of the system, just that they believe she may not return.

Should he maybe just apply for settlement visa? if this doctor feels he may have made a mistake he may not reply.

Would he rearly need to get married? After at least 6 years together they must be considered common law husband and wife.

Hi

I think you need to look at the big picture here. The more you describe the relationship, the more reason you give why the lady should not be applying for a tourist visa.

Yes - she should really consider a settlement/family visa!

Rgds

[7by7]

They do not need to be married; she can apply as an unmarried partner provided they have lived together outside the UK in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the last two years. Short visits to the UK together, or even short periods apart, would not normally be a problem.

The problem may be that they appear to have been spending 6 months in the UK and 6 months in Thailand. How this will affect an unmarried partner's application, I don't know: I think it'll be ok, but I can't say for sure.

Hopefully someone who does know can answer.

See SET05 - Unmarried and same sex partners

[VisasPlus]

They do not need to be married; she can apply as an unmarried partner provided they have lived together outside the UK in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the last two years. Short visits to the UK together, or even short periods apart, would not normally be a problem.

The problem may be that they appear to have been spending 6 months in the UK and 6 months in Thailand. How this will affect an unmarried partner's application, I don't know: I think it'll be ok, but I can't say for sure.

Hopefully someone who does know can answer.

See SET05 - Unmarried and same sex partners

As long as they have been living togther in a relationship akin to a marriage it doesn't matter if it was in the UK or overseas ( at least, I don't think so ). I can't see that the fact that they visited UK for considerable periods of time makes any difference to a settlement application ( as long as they did it together), and certainly the immigration rules don't require them to have been out of the UK while qualifying as unmarried partners.

Regarding the potential "abuse" of the NHS, I don't think that an ECO can consider refusal under 320 (11),contriving to frustrate the rules ( for the purpose of a settlement application ), but I'm sure the ECO might consider it in any future visit visa application.

[7by7]

Thanks for that, VP. I must have been confusing the 'outside the UK' bit with ILE.

[WHITESAND]

They do not need to be married; she can apply as an unmarried partner provided they have lived together outside the UK in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the last two years. Short visits to the UK together, or even short periods apart, would not normally be a problem.

The problem may be that they appear to have been spending 6 months in the UK and 6 months in Thailand. How this will affect an unmarried partner's application, I don't know: I think it'll be ok, but I can't say for sure.

Hopefully someone who does know can answer.

See SET05 - Unmarried and same sex partners

As long as they have been living togther in a relationship akin to a marriage it doesn't matter if it was in the UK or overseas ( at least, I don't think so ). I can't see that the fact that they visited UK for considerable periods of time makes any difference to a settlement application ( as long as they did it together), and certainly the immigration rules don't require them to have been out of the UK while qualifying as unmarried partners.

Regarding the potential "abuse" of the NHS, I don't think that an ECO can consider refusal under 320 (11),contriving to frustrate the rules ( for the purpose of a settlement application ), but I'm sure the ECO might consider it in any future visit visa application.

Thanks for this. He got no reply to the fax we sent his doctor. So he will head home alone and try to at least get something in writing from his doctor(may be if the NHS has been billed he can pay that bill) and then apply for a settlement visa as a visit visa appears out of the question now. He is 72 and she is at least 50 and I am not sure she is capable of passing the English exam in 2 years time. If she fails the test is it just a case of paying for another 2 years?