ManU In Decline?

[redrus]

Wes Brown, Gary Neville, Paul Scholes, (Nicky Butt and Phil Neville and David Beckham now with different teams, but time served) Ryan Giggs, Phil Bardsley, Chris Eagles, Kieron Richardson to name two hands worth off the top of the skull....

I really don't need to go on Bred, you know how good that youth operation is.....

redrus

The original question was

Name me some good Chelsea youth players who have became good international players. Hard isn't it!

Of those, I'd say only Beckham (no longer with the club), G Neville (not really exactly great is he?) and Scholes (OK, fairly good in his prime, retired from International football early and no-one noticed) could even begin to be thought of as "good internationals".

I don't remember mentioning anything about any of the players I mention being fully fledged Engerlad internationals....!

The fact that Brad Blue picked the only two that were not, only stregnthens my point. One of whom (Phil Bardsley) is almost a fully fledged first teamer at United. Which makes him good enough for Engerland, in anybody half knowledgeble's opinion. Then again seeing as some don't even know their names....!

Some in this thread seem to be turning a little sour. BredburyBlue, that is not my intention. I only try to answer in the way I see fit. My existance is not to annoy you but, to stick up for that which I love....!

redrus

[phuketsiam]

we woz robbed

[redrus]

we woz robbed

Soz fella, I understand what you're saying but, the goal was a good un and, you had your chances....!

Thats why we love the game.

redrus

[phuketsiam]

If Cisse could finish .....

yeah thats why we love the game ....

and chelski dropped points too, we could have narrowed the gap ....

if only if only if only

[jjp]

we woz robbed :D

Well, thats good coming from a scouser/Loonypool fan

That was with a shit midfield as well.

Great week this week, me thinks. 1)I am off to the beach with my students today for a field trip to Hua Hin 2) We have just beaten the scousers and we could be in a cup final (Bredblue you are old enough to remember the feeling, are't you:P )

BREDBLUE,

City deserved their win last week but give me the choice of losing to you or Loonypool. I know which one i would take I see City are back to normal after their cup final last week.

[Bredbury Blue]

1. One of whom (Phil Bardsley) is almost a fully fledged first teamer at United. Which makes him good enough for Engerland, in anybody half knowledgeble's opinion.

2. Some in this thread seem to be turning a little sour. BredburyBlue, that is not my intention. I only try to answer in the way I see fit. My existance is not to annoy you but, to stick up for that which I love....!

redrus

1. Reread your comment, that unbelievable Utd arrogance is showing again.

2. You don't annoy me, i keep throwing the ball and you Utd fans keep fetching it!

[ThaiPauly]

Oh my, looks like this is all gonna kick off again,

have we reached half time yet, I need a cuppa tea and a pie!!!

[redrus]

1. One of whom (Phil Bardsley) is almost a fully fledged first teamer at United. Which makes him good enough for Engerland, in anybody half knowledgeble's opinion.

2. Some in this thread seem to be turning a little sour. BredburyBlue, that is not my intention. I only try to answer in the way I see fit. My existance is not to annoy you but, to stick up for that which I love....!

redrus

1. Reread your comment, that unbelievable Utd arrogance is showing again.

2. You don't annoy me, i keep throwing the ball and you Utd fans keep fetching it!

55555,

I'm gonna step out of this thread for a while, BB thinks he's baiting me....LOL

redrus

[lampard10]

We'll see if they're in decline next Premiership outing.......................Blackburn at Ewood Park. Still I suppose according to you lot, after last night Chelsea are washed up and finished now.

[phuketsiam]

reckon so, need to buy some more players I think, expensive ones

[mrbojangles]

Oh my, looks like this is all gonna kick off again,

have we reached half time yet, I need a cuppa tea and a pie!!!

looks like we're in injury time in the first half

[lampard10]

My heartfelt apologies to Les sorry Rio Ferdinand, the guy I've slated all season. Thanks to him, the Premiership is once again firmly in Chelsea(ski)'s hands. Cheers Les.....sorry Rio

[phuketsiam]

From the guardian (UK)

Jamie Carragher has accused his England team-mate Gary Neville of "overstepping the mark" when the Manchester United captain celebrated the winner provocatively in front of Liverpool supporters at Old Trafford on Sunday, actions which have led to an official complaint from Greater Manchester Police.

The police have sent a letter condemning Neville's conduct as inflammatory and irresponsible to the Football Association, which will decide in the next 24 hours if a disciplinary charge of improper conduct is merited. Carragher claims the United captain went too far by running 60 yards towards the away fans to celebrate Rio Ferdinand's late goal.

Article continues

"Scoring a last-minute winner against Liverpool, who are their big rivals, they are all buzzing and we would have probably been the same," Carragher said. "Gary Neville is to Manchester United what I am to Liverpool. We're both local lads who love our clubs but sometimes you can overstep the mark and he has probably overstepped it a touch. It does wind people up. Arjen Robben [of Chelsea] got sent off for celebrating with his own fans last week and [what Neville did] was probably worse than that.

"I think there is a line and Neville crossed it. I've heard people say it's justified because he gets a lot of stick from the Liverpool fans but the truth is he gets the stick because he's been doing that for years. That's why it all started. I feel the same way about Liverpool as Neville does about United but I don't act like that when we score against them. If I did I'd expect United fans to give me the same amount of abuse."

Should he be found guilty Neville will probably be fined and warned as to his future behaviour. There is a precedent for the FA in that the Fulham players Zat Knight and Collins John were fined £5,000 and £3,000 respectively under the rule E3 for "excessive goal celebrations" in front of Birmingham supporters last January.

Yet the reaction from the police will be of greater concern. The officer in charge at Old Trafford, chief superintendent Andy Holt, has written to Manchester United's secretary Ken Merrett to express his concern that Neville's conduct may have contributed to the crowd problems after the match. Ten people were arrested, with two due in court today for public order offences. Liverpool fans also tore down a wire fence between the coaches and the executive car park and damaged several cars, including a Mercedes believed to be owned by the former United defender Denis Irwin.

Video footage of Neville's antics is being examined at Soho Square along with Holt's complaints, although the referee Mike Riley's match report is not thought to refer to the incident.

United will not take disciplinary action, believing the matter has been blown up out of proportion, and Liverpool have not made any complaint. However, the tone of Holt's letter is so strong that the FA might feel duty-bound to act. Holt is understood to have pointed out that the players had been warned at the start of the season, going on to state that Neville had run from one end of the pitch to the other.

He is not in the least contrite, arguing that he was responding to a number of derogatory chants from the away end. The United captain, who has never hidden his dislike for Liverpool or their fans, was repeatedly targeted and the game was played in a notably hostile atmosphere. Liverpool fans had incensed the home crowd by singing "Are you watching Georgie Best?" in response to taunts about Michael Shields, the Liverpudlian serving 15 years in a Bulgarian prison after being convicted of attempted murder.

Carragher also claimed that United would gladly swap places even though Liverpool trail by four points as they have games in hand and are in the knock-out stages of the Champions League. "We won't dwell on this loss and they would rather be in our position," he said. "They would rather have the problem of coping with the Champions League and chasing second place. We have two games in hand and I would expect to get a minimum of four points from those matches."

So should Neville be penalised for over celebrating?

Should scum be penalised for singing rude songs?

Should the Might Reds (Champions of Europope - 5 times) be penalised for reacting to rude songs?

Or is all a storm in a teacup?

[ThaiPauly]

I think he should pay to get Dennis Irwin's car repaired

If he gets a fine, he won't give a toss, Fergie will probably willingly pay it out of his own pocket

[redrus]

This from Gary Neville's point of view.

Source RI.

NEVILLE DEFENDS HIS ACTIONS

Story by Ed

24 January 2006

"I have to put up with Liverpool fans singing plenty of songs about me, none of them tasteful, and I struggle to believe that I have caused them any grave offence with an exuberant celebration."

From The Times:

"What are you meant to do? Smile sweetly and jog back to the halfway line?

"You are caught up in the moment and, yes, for a few seconds you can go bananas. I laughed when I heard someone say that it was not the behaviour of a 30-year-old because they are probably the same people who have accused us of lacking passion in recent games.

"No disrespect to Liverpool was intended. I would have been apologetic if I had run up to one of their players and tried to belittle them, but this was a celebration.

"Last week, I had to put up with a Liverpool lad taunting our fans during the Manchester derby, but at no point did I even consider that Robbie Fowler should be punished. The stick is part of the game. One week you take it on the chin, the next you give it out. That is how local rivals have always been - and always should be.

"I have to put up with Liverpool fans singing plenty of songs about me, none of them tasteful, and I struggle to believe that I have caused them any grave offence with an exuberant celebration.

"Increasingly people seem to want their footballers to be whiter than white and there are calls for sanctions over every little incident. Do they want a game of robots?"

Storm in a teacup IMHO PS.

redrus

[dantilley]

"What are you meant to do? Smile sweetly and jog back to the halfway line?

"You are caught up in the moment and, yes, for a few seconds you can go bananas. I laughed when I heard someone say that it was not the behaviour of a 30-year-old because they are probably the same people who have accused us of lacking passion in recent games.

"No disrespect to Liverpool was intended. I would have been apologetic if I had run up to one of their players and tried to belittle them, but this was a celebration.

"Last week, I had to put up with a Liverpool lad taunting our fans during the Manchester derby, but at no point did I even consider that Robbie Fowler should be punished. The stick is part of the game. One week you take it on the chin, the next you give it out. That is how local rivals have always been - and always should be.

"I have to put up with Liverpool fans singing plenty of songs about me, none of them tasteful, and I struggle to believe that I have caused them any grave offence with an exuberant celebration.

"Increasingly people seem to want their footballers to be whiter than white and there are calls for sanctions over every little incident. Do they want a game of robots?"

I tend to agree with most of that actually. It's one of the many things which is threatening to ruin football these days - people getting booked for over celebrating. Why on earth should a player be booked for taking his shirt off when he celebrates? I can kind of understand if the player does something totally ridiculous, like Robbie Fowler with the cocaine snorting thing a few years ago (although I think there was even an over-reaction to that actually - I can see where they're coming from though), but when you're just showing your passion for the game, why not be allowed to let it all out?

Edited January 24, 2006 by dantilley

[phuketsiam]

take away the passion and ruin the game, the stick, the banter its all part of it, if we knew what players said to each other during the game, just to try to rattle each other and gain an advantage, its just like sledging in cricket

[redrus]

"What are you meant to do? Smile sweetly and jog back to the halfway line?

"You are caught up in the moment and, yes, for a few seconds you can go bananas. I laughed when I heard someone say that it was not the behaviour of a 30-year-old because they are probably the same people who have accused us of lacking passion in recent games.

"No disrespect to Liverpool was intended. I would have been apologetic if I had run up to one of their players and tried to belittle them, but this was a celebration.

"Last week, I had to put up with a Liverpool lad taunting our fans during the Manchester derby, but at no point did I even consider that Robbie Fowler should be punished. The stick is part of the game. One week you take it on the chin, the next you give it out. That is how local rivals have always been - and always should be.

"I have to put up with Liverpool fans singing plenty of songs about me, none of them tasteful, and I struggle to believe that I have caused them any grave offence with an exuberant celebration.

"Increasingly people seem to want their footballers to be whiter than white and there are calls for sanctions over every little incident. Do they want a game of robots?"

I tend to agree with most of that actually. It's one of the many things which is threatening to ruin football these days - people getting booked for over celebrating. Why on earth should a player be booked for taking his shirt off when he celebrates? I can kind of understand if the player does something totally ridiculous, like Robbie Fowler with the cocaine snorting thing a few years ago (although I think there was even an over-reaction to that actually - I can see where they're coming from though), but when you're just showing your passion for the game, why not be allowed to let it all out?

take away the passion and ruin the game, the stick, the banter its all part of it, if we knew what players said to each other during the game, just to try to rattle each other and gain an advantage, its just like sledging in cricket

Well said you two.

Over celebration IMO is more strongly enforced now to really stamp out crowd trouble at games but, (again) IMO the Police have proerly got hold of this now especially in The Premiership and, especially at Old Trafford. This is not the Seventies.

Things are being taken too far. I do not believe Aarjen Robben should have been sent off, as I do not believe Gary should face any further action. Arsenal's reaction to Ruud and, the subsequent handbags last year is a different matter, that was dealt with and dealt with satsfactorily. Neither Gary or Aarjen's case comes close. I did not see the Zat Knight case.

redrus

[ThaiPauly]

Stick is stick, it's given on this forum, it happens at games and it happens on the field, it's part of the game.

When your team is winning comforably don't you really LOVE singing "Cherrio Cherrio Cherrio" to the opposition's fans that are leavng early and waving bye bye

Don't you just LOVE IT when you silence the opposition's supporters by coming from one or two goal's down to win the match

Don't you just LOVE it when the opposition gets a player sent off (even though there was no real need for it) as you are chanting "Off Off Off"

Don't you LOVE IT when you are standing oustside the ground after you have won the game waving bye bye to the opposition's fan's coaches while they are giving you the V signs and worse?

Do you have any COMPASSION for opposing fans when they loose?

DO you LOVE to swear at opposition players who may be taking a throw in if you are close enough?

Would you swear at them if you saw them in the street?

Do you really HATE the opposition's fans when they win with a passion?

Don't you really want their city to be nuked (unless of course it's a darby match)!!

Then you get back to the reality of your own life and find that you are a reasonable, loving, passionate person that would not go out of their way to upset anyone.

If you answered YES to all the above questions you are FOOTBALL CRAZY and thats what happens to you when you watch footy. Your whole personality changes.

Unless you are a complete Football Holigan NUTTER

If you saw somebody knocked down by a car, you would rush to help them, maybee later you find out they are your arch rivals in the Football World. Would you regret helping them...NO!

This just clarifies that for 90 minutes every week your WHOLE PERSONALITY CHANGES, be you a player or a supporter.

The Neville case is no different. PASSION RISES. For 90 minutes a week we are different people

I hope you can all understand where I am coming from

All you United fans however will surely never forget Dennis Law's back heeled goal for City that sent United down in the early 70's.

All his team mates were mobbing him, he was crying?

THATS WHAT FOOTBALL IS ALL ABOUT

[ThaiPauly]

Congratulations to the team in decline being the first of the "Big Four" to reach a Cup Final this year !!

Why has it gone so quiet round here. have the ManUtd baiters given up now after their last two results?

Is it full time now???

[lampard10]

Congratulations to the team in decline being the first of the "Big Four" to reach a Cup Final this year !!

Why has it gone so quiet round here. have the ManUtd baiters given up now after their last two results?

Is it full time now???

We're not Man U baiters..................................we're football realists.

[daleyboy]

Gonna get flamed for this but ohh well

Who cares, footballs for fairies and man u are the biggest ones out there. Heres the latest Man u team pic

[jjp]

Lets sum up the Gary Nev situation in a nutshell. 'You've got two professional managers who have gone public about high-level corruption in the game and the FA have done nothing apart from come down hard on badge kissing'. You couldn't make it up."

Enough said

[redrus]

Lets sum up the Gary Nev situation in a nutshell. 'You've got two professional managers who have gone public about high-level corruption in the game and the FA have done nothing apart from come down hard on badge kissing'. You couldn't make it up."

Enough said

That nutshell will do for me JJP, well said.

redrus

[redrus]

I know this is back to the Liverpool thing again but, I forgot about this non-crowd baiting incident....

Funnies: Carragher Decries Fan Baiting, after throwing a coin into the crowd.

Irony Of The Week

"I think there is a line and Neville crossed it."

27/01/02: Jamie Carragher is sent off for hurling a coin into the Highbury crowd.

Gary Neville's now-infamous celebrations towards Liverpool supporters following Rio Ferdinand's last-minute winner on Sunday provoked reaction from visiting defender Jamie Carragher.

The Liverpool stopper was quick to criticise Gary for inciting the opposing contingent - something he would never do, of course...

"What are you meant to do? Smile sweetly and jog back to the halfway line? You are caught up in the moment and, yes, for a few seconds you can go bananas."

Gary has his say on proceedings...

"Last week, I had to put up with a Liverpool lad taunting our fans during the Manchester derby, but at no point did I even consider that Robbie Fowler should be punished. The stick is part of the game. One week you take it on the chin, the next you give it out. That is how local rivals have always been - and always should be."

...And sums up the concept of partisan sport.

[Fast Eddie]

Carragher got a suspension for that. If running half the length of the pitch to incite opposition fans is deemed okay at football matches, then nothing should be done. But if the FA consider that to be unnaceptable behaviour, then they have to take some sort of action. I'm not bothered either way what they decide to do, but Neville did go well over the top and the question that has to be asked is whether that sort of behaviour, and any potential trouble caused, is going to be acceptable at all games from now on. Because if they don't do something about this high profile incident, they won't have a leg to stand on when it comes to stopping others in the future, and at what point do you draw the line? The referee has indicated that he would have booked him had he of seen it, so if they do decide to do anything the punishment probably shouldn't be too severe. Maybe just giving him the card in retrospect and a token fine would be sufficient.

[jjp]

What about Fowler holding up 5 fingers when he scored the other week in front of the Utd fans. I didn't hear any players come out (quote redrus) and moan about that and also about Gerrand and Carragher v Everton. They baited the Everton fans so double standards Mr. Carrangher, me thinks. Well, thats what the F.A is all about. The F.A never have a leg to to stand on cos they make a cock- up over everything.

He should be warned about his future conduct and be done with it. Its all about passion and pride and players as well as the fans do get carried away with the emotion of the game. It was aganist our biggest rivals so what do people expect.

The only reason this has come about is that the scousers had to smash the toilets up and wreck coaches after the match and was reported by the police. Same old scousers

[Bredbury Blue]

A few weeks back one of the talking points on here was City's supporters appeal in two of our match day programmes to our idiot contingent to cut out the munich chants. The appeal was led by this man. Here are his further comments on the subject:

DOUBLE STANDARDS

I'm proud that on behalf of the (Man City) Centenary Supporters Association I was able to put our support behind the request in recent match day programmes to cut out the Munich chants. However my support was purely on behalf of City supporters and nothing to do with the other side's fans. [As were we all, Alex]

I have been contacted by people who allege to speak on behalf of MUFC supporters for my views on the subject of Munich chants. My reply is always 'get your own house in order before you look at mine'. I'm sick of the double standards of many of Utd supporters. I've heard the chants about the Russian submarine, our No 23 (the death of Marc-vivien Foe), Alfie Haaland's leg, Hillsborough etc. They have no room to criticise us. Let them sort themselves out whilst we get our own house in order and please may all City readers do whatever they can to cut out the Munich chants.

Alex Channon (channons at cwctv.net)

Chair, Manchester City Centenary Supporters Association.

[jjp]

A few weeks back one of the talking points on here was City's supporters appeal in two of our match day programmes to our idiot contingent to cut out the munich chants. The appeal was led by this man. Here are his further comments on the subject:

DOUBLE STANDARDS

I'm proud that on behalf of the (Man City) Centenary Supporters Association I was able to put our support behind the request in recent match day programmes to cut out the Munich chants. However my support was purely on behalf of City supporters and nothing to do with the other side's fans. [As were we all, Alex]

I have been contacted by people who allege to speak on behalf of MUFC supporters for my views on the subject of Munich chants. My reply is always 'get your own house in order before you look at mine'. I'm sick of the double standards of many of Utd supporters. I've heard the chants about the Russian submarine, our No 23 (the death of Marc-vivien Foe), Alfie Haaland's leg, Hillsborough etc. They have no room to criticise us. Let them sort themselves out whilst we get our own house in order and please may all City readers do whatever they can to cut out the Munich chants.

Alex Channon (channons at cwctv.net)

Chair, Manchester City Centenary Supporters Association.

yeah yeah Bredblue,

We all have <deleted> fans who sing sad songs but dont try and justify a song that most city fans have sang for years. Yeah, some Utd fans sing shity songs but i dont think it comes across as loud and clear as the munich songs. That is because only a few sing them where's at the council house most of the fans sing them, hence hearing them on the tv. City have been singing this song for 30 years and it WONT change, will it

As for double standards i could go on. Its not about Gaz Nev its about all the other players who have done it and got away with it. Lampard at loonypool and the worst on of all Diouf from Bolton at loads of places. So, let the F.A charge everyone and have done with it.

[redrus]

Read the last paragraph.....!

redrus