ManU In Decline?

[sumrit]

First of all, you would be penalising 4 'weaker' teams by reducing league to 16, so only top 13 teams would 'benefit' from your idea.

After all I'm suggesting something that would take money presently given to Man U and share it among the lesser clubs.

I am sure fans of Villa and Sunderland would rather be going watching their team play the newcastles and Liverpools as opposed to trekking across Europe watching them v Eintrach Frankfurt.

I believe the answer lies with youth policy.

If a club cannot afford the top drawer players, then the emphasis should be put into youth policy.

Problem is that the top clubs come and 'poach' all the better quality promising young uns. They should put a stop to that. Once a youth player is signed up they cannot move until the end of the contract. By that time the clubs effort will have either produced a superstar that they can sell for huge money, or a superstar who wants to play for his home club.

I would initially be penalizing one extra existing EPL club. For the first year the usual three teams would be relegated anyway so I would just be relegating one more in that first year, with no promotion in that year either of course.

At the moment everybody complains that the financial distribution is unfair and it's now almost impossible for teams to break into the elite group, unless they find a sugar daddy like Man C did. And doing that is just as unfair, if not even more so, on all other teams.

I'm not saying I've got the answer but if sacrificing four clubs means a much fairer and more equal system for all the remaining clubs I think it's a sacrifice worth making.

Your suggestion on youth could cause more problems than is might solve.

Firstly the elite clubs have all the best youth policies anyway (except Chelsea of course ) and have the best scouting set ups to find the best potential players already, not just in the UK but worldwide. Do you really think forcing (possibly) what could be the second best group of youth players (with most of the best already with the elite clubs) to stay with the lesser clubs they would improve those clubs to the extent they would become equal to the elite clubs?

Secondly we have a transfer system to allow players to move to another club even though they're under contract. To withdraw that facility to some players (the youth) while allowing it to remain for others would not only be unfair, it could well be considered an illegal constraint of trade and if implemented could well become the new 'Bosman'.

Thirdly although selling the odd player who has made the grade would generate some money for those lesser clubs it certainly wouldn't generate enough to enable that club to join the elite clubs.

Fourthly even clubs like Barcelona and Man U, who have two of the best youth setups going and with the cream of the youth players available to them, are very lucky to produce two players per year that make the grade. Do you really think forcing youth players to stay with lesser clubs will somehow produce both more and better players?

Of course a good youth policy is now a must for all clubs but I think changing the system to put those clubs on a more even footing on a permanent basis has got got to help those lesser clubs to have the chance to join the elite clubs.

[jellydog]

Sometimes you got a rich uncle you never knew who kicks the bucket and leaves you millions. Most of the time you don't. Its tough luck compared to the lucky fellow who got the inheritance, but you keep plugging away instead of whinging about the dude with a horseshoe up his arse. Or...not.

[MrRed]

I think sumrits concise posts her have been very good and it is just a shame that it seems to intellectually challenging for some but hey ho why change a habit of a life time.....the end story is going to be the same.

United Champions.

[mjj]

Sumrit, in principal I think its a good idea.

The main problem I foresee is the travelling fans for the leagues 3 and 4, and to a lesser extent league 2. I'm not sure there would be that many for, what is essentially, division 2, 3 and 4. I might be wrong, but I thought away support was not that great in the early stages of the CL against the lesser teams. So if the elite clubs have problems attracting the away support with the larger fanbase, surely the lesser clubs will struggle more so.

[MrRed]

Can you now stop chatting shit please gents.....this is the United in decline thread only talk of impending doom and failure is allowed or else i shall have to close this thread and add it to the United normal thread which after all is more on topic init!!!

[mrbojangles]

Nope. Your are now officially in decline. Moyes has already met the players. The rot has begun.

[mrtoad]

Trolling again BJ :-p

[mrbojangles]

Me Toady? Nah matey, just staying on topic

[smokie36]

Wait till I start a Spurs on the March thread after Xmas.

[mrbojangles]

What year, to the nearest decade

[smokie36]

What year, to the nearest decade

I've been ill for days mrboj.....you better watch it mate....I'm almost back to full fettle. Watch out world I tell ya!

Two goalscoring strikers in and the dross out....we will be unbeatable!

[redrus]

OFF TOPIC AGAIN......!!!!!

redrus

[smokie36]

OFF TOPIC AGAIN......!!!!!

redrus

The rise and fall of redrus perrin.....

[redrus]

OFF TOPIC AGAIN......!!!!!

redrus

The rise and fall of redrus perrin.....

Aaaaah shurrup Steptoe..!!

redrus

[smokie36]

OFF TOPIC AGAIN......!!!!!

redrus

The rise and fall of redrus perrin.....

Aaaaah shurrup Steptoe..!!

redrus

The fall and rise of the lillywhites.

[bigbamboo]

. How did United earn their spending power in 1987?

Simple. Spending power comes from income as well as sugar daddies. Even in those far distant days of mediorecy we were the best supported team in the UK.

Company's also recognized the size of our fan base and wanted to be associated with Man U, boosting our advertising revenue as well.

More supporters = more gate receipts +more advertising = more income = more spending power .

Plus an efficient and well run club from top to bottom helps of course.

I'm sorry but this just an awful idea. Imagine Newcastle fans trading two league games against Sunderland for two against Chievo or Getafe?

[rijit]

the heirachy of football has for the last 50 years been held by a handful of clubs, with the explosion in tv revenue other megga monies regulary availiable to the premier its hardly likely 2 change. talk of reducing numbers to benefit the 'greater good' greed on greed, what the prem should be concerned with is to improve the traditional player feeding chain within english football, ie the football league, youth policy is fine, but with that, talent explodes then v often goes. but is v v much a productive working constant within the league, watch Lambert, he knows, league clubs and the infa structure is struggling and in a lot of cases on the brink of disappearing, perhaps its time larger clubs were allowed to own a second club? , it happens else where, seems the sole argument against is, what if they meet? and tbh, that is a <deleted> argument, when was the last time spurs played rotherham!!! perhaps the independence is the true 'heart beat of the football league?? but one things 4 sure football at the other ends is having a hard time and the 'big boys should be looking to spread its wings and sort it out,4 them and for all , if handled properly. it would be a win win thing IMO.

Edited May 22, 2013 by rijit

[sumrit]

. How did United earn their spending power in 1987?

Simple. Spending power comes from income as well as sugar daddies. Even in those far distant days of mediorecy we were the best supported team in the UK.

Company's also recognized the size of our fan base and wanted to be associated with Man U, boosting our advertising revenue as well.

More supporters = more gate receipts +more advertising = more income = more spending power .

Plus an efficient and well run club from top to bottom helps of course.

I'm sorry but this just an awful idea. Imagine Newcastle fans trading two league games against Sunderland for two against Chievo or Getafe?

I was trying to suggest a way of giving all Premier league clubs a fairer share of the vast sums of money in football. But you can't just give the money to clubs for nothing, there's no free ride, it's got to be earned.

Your comment of 'trading two league games' already suggests a defeatist attitude that you don't think both clubs are good enough to be among the top sixteen, and that, by being in the competition, either Chievo or Getafe could well be better than either Newcastle or Sunderland.

I'm not saying my suggestion is the answer, BUT, at the moment both Newcastle and Sunderland have got virtually no chance of joining the elite. At best all they can look forward to is mid table mediocrecy with the odd cup run every ten years or so...........................plus two local derbies a season, IF of course they both manage to stay in the same division.

If (possibly) getting the bragging rights of two local derbies a year is more important to you than putting your club on a sound financial footing that would give them the opportunity of joining the elite then you don't deserve to be there anyway.

Today's system isn't working, come up with your alternative that would work........................................and Newcastle playing Sunderland EVERY WEEK doesn't count.

[sumrit]

Sumrit, in principal I think its a good idea.

The main problem I foresee is the travelling fans for the leagues 3 and 4, and to a lesser extent league 2. I'm not sure there would be that many for, what is essentially, division 2, 3 and 4. I might be wrong, but I thought away support was not that great in the early stages of the CL against the lesser teams. So if the elite clubs have problems attracting the away support with the larger fanbase, surely the lesser clubs will struggle more so.

I agree with you to a point about (possibly the lack of) away fans traveling but you wouldn't call the Champions League a failure because that sometimes happens now would you.

And domestically, how many fans from the likes of Southampton, Reading and Norwich travel to Newcastle and Sunderland? How many Newcastle and Sunderland supporters will travel to Cardiff and Swansea next season?

All I was suggesting was a way of putting all clubs on a more even financial footing with a possible way of the lesser clubs joining the elite,If the fans don't want to travel to support their team that's up to them.

If traveling mid week is a problem, with fewer domestic games maybe some European games could be played at the weekend as a solution.

And remember, it may essentially be divisions 3 and 4 of Europe, but it will still be EPL quality football with the worst of the games being the equivalent of Newcastle playing Aston Villa, based on this years final table.

[sumrit]

the heirachy of football has for the last 50 years been held by a handful of clubs, with the explosion in tv revenue other megga monies regulary availiable to the premier its hardly likely 2 change. talk of reducing numbers to benefit the 'greater good' greed on greed, what the prem should be concerned with is to improve the traditional player feeding chain within english football, ie the football league, youth policy is fine, but with that, talent explodes then v often goes. but is v v much a productive working constant within the league, watch Lambert, he knows, league clubs and the infa structure is struggling and in a lot of cases on the brink of disappearing, perhaps its time larger clubs were allowed to own a second club? , it happens else where, seems the sole argument against is, what if they meet? and tbh, that is a <deleted> argument, when was the last time spurs played rotherham!!! perhaps the independence is the true 'heart beat of the football league?? but one things 4 sure football at the other ends is having a hard time and the 'big boys should be looking to spread its wings and sort it out,4 them and for all , if handled properly. it would be a win win thing IMO.

Good idea. I like it in principle..................but what if a club like Wolves, who are on another downward slide at the moment, owned a club like Shrewsbury? They'll both be playing in league 1 next season which could/would cause a conflict.

Could always own Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish clubs though.

Edited May 23, 2013 by sumrit

[rijit]

the heirachy of football has for the last 50 years been held by a handful of clubs, with the explosion in tv revenue other megga monies regulary availiable to the premier its hardly likely 2 change. talk of reducing numbers to benefit the 'greater good' greed on greed, what the prem should be concerned with is to improve the traditional player feeding chain within english football, ie the football league, youth policy is fine, but with that, talent explodes then v often goes. but is v v much a productive working constant within the league, watch Lambert, he knows, league clubs and the infa structure is struggling and in a lot of cases on the brink of disappearing, perhaps its time larger clubs were allowed to own a second club? , it happens else where, seems the sole argument against is, what if they meet? and tbh, that is a <deleted> argument, when was the last time spurs played rotherham!!! perhaps the independence is the true 'heart beat of the football league?? but one things 4 sure football at the other ends is having a hard time and the 'big boys should be looking to spread its wings and sort it out,4 them and for all , if handled properly. it would be a win win thing IMO.

Good idea. I like it in principle..................but what if a club like Wolves, who are on another downward slide at the moment, owned a club like Shrewsbury? They'll both be playing in league 1 next season which could/would cause a conflict.

Could always own Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish clubs though.

A conflict?, or an intense rivalry? either or coverage//interest wise it could well work, but that's only one part the prem needs to be lookin at the bigger picture and the bigger picture is better support 4 the football league.

the other issue that IMO needs addressing is a fairer share out of the gate money ie for away teams, gates against theoretically non competitive teams ie 2nd div teams, decrease by what? i'de quess 30 %? soon that basis EVERY prem team plays it part in making the game an attractive competitive proposition, so why not get a cut of the gate? the more wedge the smaller teams get, wouldn't they be able to put out even stronger teams, attracting more fans and filling more grounds?,and lets remember its only the very very few that fill grounds EVERY week irrespective of whom they are playing, this way the whole league would benefit not just the select 2 maybe 3?

[redrus]

I'm not being funny, but how is this 'united in decline' discussion. Or are we so not in decline, there's no point discussing it.... CLOSE THE THREAD...!!

Get yer own thread ya hijacking clowns..... This is for serious 'in decline' discussion only.

redrus

[rijit]

I'm not being funny, but how is this 'united in decline' discussion. Or are we so not in decline, there's no point discussing it.... CLOSE THE THREAD...!!

Get yer own thread ya hijacking clowns..... This is for serious 'in decline' discussion only.

redrus

It s a covert anti united plot, working towards the financial demise of utd

[redrus]

I'm not being funny, but how is this 'united in decline' discussion. Or are we so not in decline, there's no point discussing it.... CLOSE THE THREAD...!!

Get yer own thread ya hijacking clowns..... This is for serious 'in decline' discussion only.

redrus

It s a covert anti united plot, working towards the financial demise of utd

Looking at figures released today, you are waaaaaay short of the mark. Our debt has now reduced to approximately £360m, and with yearly profits expected to top that, United are only getting stronger.

Sorry haters....

redrus

[carmine]

I'm not being funny, but how is this 'united in decline' discussion. Or are we so not in decline, there's no point discussing it.... CLOSE THE THREAD...!!

Get yer own thread ya hijacking clowns..... This is for serious 'in decline' discussion only.

redrus

It s a covert anti united plot, working towards the financial demise of utd

Looking at figures released today, you are waaaaaay short of the mark. Our debt has now reduced to approximately £360m, and with yearly profits expected to top that, United are only getting stronger.

Sorry haters....

redrus

Sorry mate but truth is i doubt the vast majority give a sh1t what Utd's financial situation is. We're just happy Ferguson has gone.

But i remember one of his big rallying calls to the team and the fans (well those that can speak english anyway) was "everyone hates us", and such <deleted> so carry on if you must

[MrRed]

Yeah but Rus, Ferguson has gone now you know and there wishful thinking knows no bounds at the moment......really they are scared and know we will get better.

Can't wait for the season to start.

see the above post from Carmine .....perfect timing! nobody likes winners Carmine!!

Edited May 24, 2013 by MrRed

[redrus]

Carmine......, are you still talking.... Yawn.

redrus

[carmine]

Yeah but Rus, Ferguson has gone now you know and there wishful thinking knows no bounds at the moment......really they are scared and know we will get better.

Can't wait for the season to start.

see the above post from Carmine .....perfect timing! nobody likes winners Carmine!!

Thanks so you don't have a problem finding the appointment of Moyes hilarious then. BTW, have a good kip Rus

[MrRed]

No i don't.

You do!

Edited May 24, 2013 by MrRed

[JacknDanny]

Yeah but Rus, Ferguson has gone now you know and there wishful thinking knows no bounds at the moment......really they are scared and know we will get better.

Can't wait for the season to start.

see the above post from Carmine .....perfect timing! nobody likes winners Carmine!!

What I want to know is this..... You have just lost the best manager in the game. How do you come to the conclusion that you are going to get better?

Completely lost me, that one