Israel rejects U.S. call for 1967 borders

[koheesti]

What I was referencing was putting quotation marks around the word Palestinian. The abhorrent implication being that Palestinians don't exist. This despicable attempt to dehumanize Palestinians is similar to what happened to another group during World War II.

Stop the trolling. It has nothing to do with "dehumanizing" anyone. The reason for putting quotation marks around the word Palestinian is because there has never been such an Arab country or a people. That is a fact.

The proper term is Arabs and they mostly came fron surrounding countries.

I wonder if anyone knows of any films prior to 1967 that reference Palestinians? I'm watching this TV series Rome and they have Jews in it who want to get the Romans out of Judea (why not feature Palestinians trying to get the Romans out?). And in the old Charlton Heston film Ben-Hur (1959) it is about Romans and Jews in Judea. Of course there's Ten Commandments (1956). Those are just some examples. There MUST be some reference to the Palestinians in film history too at some point? If not in Hollywood (which has been heavily dominated by Jews) then in the film industry of other countries?

Edited May 21, 2011 by koheesti

[softgeorge]

One gets the feeling that Israel are avoiding peace at all costs. Maybe time for NATO to move in

[kuffki]

One gets the feeling that Israel are avoiding peace at all costs. Maybe time for NATO to move in

what an insightful post! care to expand?

[Jingthing]

Isn't the State Dept called Little Jerusalem?

First I heard it. Source please? Called by who? Hamas?

It may have come to me via The Israel Lobby by Mearsheimer and Walt but I believe it's a long used term.

Mearsheimer as a critic of Israel is what is therefore termed "a self-hating Jew" an amusing term.

I might add I'm no sort of anti Jew as.....and this isn't just a rhetorical device.....one of my longest standing closest friends is a New York Jew and I admire many of the race. I detest a few too.

Some points.

Self hating Jews exist in large numbers. Being critical of Israeli policies in itself doesn't make a Jew self hating.

Jews are NOT a race. Repeat. NOT a race.

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.

[kuffki]

Physician, heal thyself.

oH BOY, how sad and uninformed!

Palestinians did not exist and are not a nation as such.

Palestinians are Arabs

Palestine as such does not have a specific culture, history as no state of Palestine ever existed.

Secondly,again for the second time, i was not the one who put quotation marks. If you actually bothered to open the link and read, you would see the marks were put the by the author

What is the relevance if it printed on the paper media or internet media? Does it make it less creditable or less historically correct?

Again if you actually bothered to open and see the site you would have found it refers to magazine.

Left wing, right wing, middle wing or no wing, the historic facts remain the same.

Of course you welcome to to stick to Palestine media as it is the most creditable source and they would never post factually incorrect information.

Iranian media is also excellent when it comes to the issue.

Edited May 21, 2011 by kuffki

[Steely Dan]

I think Obama is trying to wear the laurel leaf crown of Emperor/peacemaker, but there are many who disagree with him, not just Netanyahu.

http://www.debka.com/article/20955/

By rejecting US President Barack Obama's proposal for Israel and its troops to pull back from the West Bank to behind the indefensible 1967 lines, Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu lands in the company of eleven Middle East and North African rulers who spurned Washington's Middle East policy in the six months of the unfolding Arab uprising. Egypt's Hosni Mubarak was the only one to keep faith with Obama and he was pushed out for his pains.

[cheeryble]

George Wallace always said that some of his "best freinds" were black. With freinds like that...

He couldn't spell?

(Don't worry George i know you're highly literate )

[pkspeaker]

it's always the same stupid arguments made in this forum..it doesn't matter that your opinion is that there was never a Palestine, despite the fact that in any pre-1948 map or newspaper the levant is refered to as 'Palestine' and the country that preceded Israel was called British Palestine.. there are 5 million people there 1.5 million in gaza, 1.5 million in israel, 2.5 million in the westbank..that call themselves Palestinians, you say they are arabs, ok then call the other state 'arab' as soon as they have there first parliament reading they will change the name back to Palestine.. the Palestinians cannot be israeli's because as netanyahoo keeps saying israel is a state for the jewish people..even he is expicitly rejecting them as citizens.. a 'state' is not dirt and buildings and vegitation, it is the people and their political entity..

you made that irrelevant 'there is no palestine' comment in a previous thread, i bursted it like i do your other dumb arguments, you don't offer a meaningful retort, you then make the same argument again.

[cheeryble]

Some points.

Self hating Jews exist in large numbers. Being critical of Israeli policies in itself doesn't make a Jew self hating.

But that's exactly what they get called if they criticize Israel!

Jews are NOT a race. Repeat. NOT a race.

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

Repeat?

You're strictly correct of course as one can convert, but it is a stretch given that 99>% are surely not converts. So was it worth mentioning? What is worth mentioning is the hugely diverse genetic typing in the Jewish.....err....group. They are absolutely not one people and do not get on particularly well. The Ashkenazies with their (sometimes) blue eyes and (often) ginger hair and freckles and high intelligence and who run Israel and are basically imported there. They are poles apart from the "original" Jews.....though there is of course the common carrying of Cohen and Levite coding which is not true for converted Jews.

BTW rather ripe to criticize my wordage given that you (it was you wasn't it?) previously mentioned antisemitism when of course if you want to be litigious and forget about common usage (which you did) that would be anti-Arab too.

What might be more worthwhile from you is a justification in any way you like of collective punishment.

cheers Cheeryble

Edited May 21, 2011 by cheeryble

[Jingthing]

Some points.

Self hating Jews exist in large numbers. Being critical of Israeli policies in itself doesn't make a Jew self hating.

But that's exactly what they get called if they criticize Israel!

Jews are NOT a race. Repeat. NOT a race.

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.

You're strictly correct of course as one can convert, but it is a stretch given that 99% are surely not converts. So was it worth mentioning? What is worth mentioning is the hugely diverse genetic typing in the Jewish.....err....group. They are absolutely not one people and do not get on particularly well. The Ashkenazies with their (sometimes) blue eyes and (often) ginger hair and freckles and high intelligence and who run Israel and are basically imported there. They are poles apart from the "original" Jews.....though there is of course the common carrying of Cohen and Levite coding which is not true for converted Jews.

BTW rather ripe to criticize my wordage given that you (it was you wasn't it?) previously mentioned antisemitism when of course if you want to be litigious that would be anti-Arab too.

cheers Cheeryble

I don't know the exact percentages but there is no way only one percent of Jews are converts and/or not "ethnically" Jewish. Not even close! You should keep up with current REALITY. Go to a modern Jewish synagogue in America and you will see MANY black (not only Ethiopian), European American, Asian, and Latino faces due to massive intermarriage. It is very much worth mentioning the FACT that Jews are NOT a race.

As far as the correct definition of antisemitism, it refers to Jews only. That is not a controversy, It is a fact. It matters not that Arabs are semites. We are speaking English here. Definitions matter. If you wish to CHANGE the meaning of words, fine, please lobby the dictionary writers. Otherwise, please accept the ACTUAL accepted definition of words, including antisemitism.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-semitism

Definition of ANTI-SEMITISM

: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group

Edited May 21, 2011 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

it's always the same stupid arguments made in this forum..it doesn't matter that your opinion is that there was never a Palestine, despite the fact that in any pre-1948 map or newspaper the levant is refered to as 'Palestine'

Palestine was a geographical area - pretty much a desert - with very few people outside of Jerusalem which was dominated by Jews. No country. No "Palestinian" people.

That is why you can not answer any of the questions that apply to a real country. Name one "Palestinian leader" before Arafat and so on....

Edited May 21, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

George Wallace always said that some of his "best freinds" were black.

He couldn't spell?

A spelling Nazi. Why am I not surprised?

Edited May 21, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

(it was you wasn't it?) previously mentioned antisemitism when of course if you want to be litigious and forget about common usage (which you did) that would be anti-Arab too.

Actually, that is not correct. Semitic usually refers to Semitic languages, not people. Anti-Semitic only refers to Jews.

[Steely Dan]

it's always the same stupid arguments made in this forum..it doesn't matter that your opinion is that there was never a Palestine, despite the fact that in any pre-1948 map or newspaper the levant is refered to as 'Palestine'

Palestine was a geographical area - pretty much a desert - with very few people outside of Jerusalem which was dominated by Jews. No country. No "Palestinian" people.

That is why you can not answer any of the questions that apply to a real country.

Those are the facts! Unfortunately much of the middle east lives in an 8th century timewarp where human development has scarcely evolved past the racist, mysoginistic and homophobic fairy tale thats held them back for centuries. Western liberals try to kid themselves that if given 'justice' the so called Palestinians will miraculously start behaving like secular moderates, but in their hearts they know this is rubbish but try to organize a pogrom by proxy not even having the guts to do their own antisemitic dirty work in the first person.

[cheeryble]

A spelling Nazi.

I'm not a spelling Nazi George I'm aware you made a typing error I was laughing with you not at you. I thought it was rather droll actually.

While we're on about Nazi's though.....

Jingthing....once again....

Any possible reason I, like a very large minority of Jews, shouldn't be disgusted by and want to see the end of any regime which uses collective punishment as a state tool?

Cheeryble

Edited May 21, 2011 by cheeryble

[kuffki]

Why Palestinians be Israeli ?

And since another incorrect comment from you, why over 1.5 million Arabs live in Israel ?

Why do you keep posting irrelevant, factually and historically incorrect information?

Why do you keep making things up or just trolling?

I already asked you to provide proof to your statement of me doing something , and you failed.

Now you made up another story, ok please provide proof of what I said and you supposedly busted me.

Palestine did not exist, Israel did not take anything from Arabs .

Israel is democratic country and is open to all people who come on peace, hence the pilgrimage of Christians, Catholics , Jews , and Muslims . Israel is home to huge number of Arabs , 25% of the population to be precise .

People living in Israel are free to practice any religion they wish or none at all. People ate free to speak and demonstrate without being shot or beaten.

Israel does have a fair legal system open to all.

These are the facts , do not like it?!-tough luck, live with it!

it's always the same stupid arguments made in this forum..it doesn't matter that your opinion is that there was never a Palestine, despite the fact that in any pre-1948 map or newspaper the levant is refered to as 'Palestine' and the country that preceded Israel was called British Palestine.. there are 5 million people there 1.5 million in gaza, 1.5 million in israel, 2.5 million in the westbank..that call themselves Palestinians, you say they are arabs, ok then call the other state 'arab' as soon as they have there first parliament reading they will change the name back to Palestine.. the Palestinians cannot be israeli's because as netanyahoo keeps saying israel is a state for the jewish people..even he is expicitly rejecting them as citizens.. a 'state' is not dirt and buildings and vegitation, it is the people and their political entity..

you made that irrelevant 'there is no palestine' comment in a previous thread, i bursted it like i do your other dumb arguments, you don't offer a meaningful retort, you then make the same argument again.

[Ulysses G.]

I'm not really a fan of this commentator, but really enjoyed this.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[samurai]

Obama just lost the $upport of the Jewish community back home who were foolish enough to back him the first time around. I think he is trying to throw the election just so he can retire with all those cool presidential benefits before he is 52. Then he can have his own show on ESPN or the Golf Channel.

http://blogs.jta.org/politics/article/2011/05/19/3087785/jewish-groups-respond-to-obamas-mideast-policy-speech?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Jewish groups respond to Obama’s Mideast speech

Edited May 21, 2011 by samurai

[WarpSpeed]

The American people are ready to endorse this strategy.

So, in other words, this is not true. It is just left-wing fantasy.

Your words, not mine. I contend, as I did above, that this policy adjustment has legs.

And don't be so deliberately obtuse as to say that this is Obama's idea. He is the spokesperson. Multiple layers of government have advised on this issue.

Right well if like you suggest he's just the messenger and had no part in the actual proposal then a new messenger is required, one who is actually LEADING by being out front with such proposals instead of just passing on the ideas of his staffers..

I do like your suggestion that he's just the messenger though as that just confirms what I've known all along..

[WarpSpeed]

JFYI on a similar topic for those who haven't figured it out yet it's not at all ironic that Bin Laden was executed 60 years to the day as Hitlers death. That was a political message and a shot across the bow back at Al Qaeda for their 9/11 code stamping, consider the primary agenda of both of those "leaders" and the labels of evil they represent..

Edited May 21, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[samurai]

it's always the same stupid arguments made in this forum..it doesn't matter that your opinion is that there was never a Palestine, despite the fact that in any pre-1948 map or newspaper the levant is refered to as 'Palestine'

Palestine was a geographical area - pretty much a desert - with very few people outside of Jerusalem which was dominated by Jews. No country. No "Palestinian" people.

That is why you can not answer any of the questions that apply to a real country. Name one "Palestinian leader" before Arafat and so on....

Why is there the need to have a "leader" to be recognize as "people"?

And often "people" are named after a geographical area. Take the Ashkenazim for example, the term comes from the name for a geographical region Ashkenaz, the Alsace and the German Rhineland.

[samurai]

JFYI on a similar topic for those who haven't figured it out yet it's not at all ironic that Bin Laden was executed 60 years to the day as Hitlers death. That was a political message and a shot across the bow back at Al Qaeda for their 9/11 code stamping, consider the primary agenda of both of those "leaders" and the labels of evil they represent..

Where is the similarity?

The other bullshit that got posted in this thread?

[Huey]

One gets the feeling that Israel are avoiding peace at all costs. Maybe time for NATO to move in

what an insightful post! care to expand?

I appreciate the sentiment, but America would have to move out first. Obama is doing a great and courageous job by setting the president now. He knows that as long isrealis are stealing more and more land and promoting apartied that there will never be peace there. However we would not be able to pull our support for them right now at this juncture. First we have to offer the real way to peace. Which we have by telling the israelies to give back land stolen in 67. Knowing full well that the greed and averace of the israeli would not let them accept such a reasonable proposal America starts to set it's self up to pull support.

The next step is to highlight the astounding amount of free cash we give them, currently $8 billion a year and rising, this while America is suffering through a recession and that money can be MUCH better used to help US citizens. The israeli sympathisers will no doubt try to deflect the statements with smoke and mirrors, pointing to how much is given else where or how many shiny new guns it develops and sells back to the US. But rest assured Americans will not appreciate this one bit and start to question this free lunch we have been feeding israel.

Inevidbly they will start to ask, <deleted> have you done for us lately?

My guess is that the answer israel gives will not suffice(especially not with this blatantly defiant additude their PM is showing us now, talk about biting the hand that feeds you), and eventually America will drop it's blind support for israel and they will be left to make peace on their own and settle their differences with their neighbours without the US wrongly taking sides.

It's comming, Maybe not today or tommorow but it's comming and I look forward to a day when America no longer blindly support anyone without question.

[johna]

Please elaborate who and how would force American people?

also please even speculate as to why American people will evev consider supporting someone who celebrates every terror act in USA or mourns the death of a terrorist or burns American flag.

Ps. What is Jewish dominated media? Are those people not American ? Of Jewish religion. They certainly not Israeli

An excellent speech by Benjamin Netanyahu. The American people will stand by Israel despite Obama's demands.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in front of President Obama and the media, explicitly rejected the president's call for a Palestinian state based on the pre-1967 borders.

Sitting beside Obama following a private Oval Office meeting, the visiting prime minister said Friday that he values the president's efforts to advance the peace process and intends to work with him. But he said the president's call for Israel to pull back to the borders that existed before the Six-Day War is not tenable.

"We can't go back to those indefensible lines. ... I discussed this with the president," Netanyahu said.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/20/netanyahu-white-house-obamas-mideast-speech/

If the American people stand by Israel it will be because they were forced to, not because they wanted to.

Americans are not happy with Israel, despite all the Jewish dominated media which never fails to support Israel.

Google "Jewish dominated media"

More than 90% of western media is owned by Jews who support Israel, they have the power to shape western thinking

Invariable news is always biased in favor of Israel.

Only a few western politicians have the courage, like George Galloway to tell the truth about what is happening in the middle east.

[samurai]

Please elaborate who and how would force American people?

also please even speculate as to why American people will evev consider supporting someone who celebrates every terror act in USA or mourns the death of a terrorist or burns American flag.

Ps. What is Jewish dominated media? Are those people not American ? Of Jewish religion. They certainly not Israeli

Google "Jewish dominated media"

More than 90% of western media is owned by Jews who support Israel, they have the power to shape western thinking

Invariable news is always biased in favor of Israel.

Only a few western politicians have the courage, like George Galloway to tell the truth about what is happening in the middle east.

LOL. Different colour, same bullshit.

That is what Kuffkis "anti-imperialist" and "anti-fascist" front magazine says about the "media":

"If a Martian were suddenly to land on earth and start listening to and reading the mainstream media, he would form the impression that the entire Middle East conflict were due to Israel building some settlements in land that much of the world thinks should become a Palestinian state. A near-consensus exists among the governments of the world and among media writers that peace has yet to break out in the Middle East because of three principle reasons. The first is that the Jews and the Arabs have been unable to agree about whether there should be a Palestinian state. The second is because Israel has obstinately refused to withdraw its troops from (so-called) “occupied Arab” lands. The third is because Israel behaves cruelly towards the Palestinians.

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=35869

According to them the mainstream media lies about Israel and don't tell you the truth about the what they call the Islamofascist imperialism

[Scott]

A number of off-topic posts and quotes to off-topic posts have been removed. Posts making unnecessary comparisons between the Jewish people and Nazis will be removed as well.

Let's keep it civil and on-topic.

[samurai]

Again, you do not like the source - either take it up with magazine or post the source you do like, which does fit with your opinion.

For some people on this board, truth is too much to swallow so they feel the need to nit pick the words and yet nO reasonable counter argument

PS. I hope you do realize that at least half of US military equipment was developed by Israel and given for "FREE" so this cheque that US gives is not only support but also a payment for new technology.

Reference, please.

Probably from one of his anti-imperialist web pages. They say Israel use its conflict with the neighbours as big testing ground for the development of new weapon technology.

"no reasonable counter argument"?

Its the question how you come to that statement " at least half of US military equipment was developed by Israel and given for "FREE" "

[powderpuff]

Bibi unconditionally rejects any return to pre 1967 borders. Nice try Obama with your sniper attack speech at the State Dept while Mr. Netanyahu was on an airplane.

Edited May 21, 2011 by powderpuff

[Scott]

A discussion of moderation has been deleted.

Please read the OP and stick to the topic presented. This thread is not about anything and everything related to Israel or Jews.

[kuffki]

"no reasonable counter argument"?

Its the question how you come to that statement " at least half of US military equipment was developed by Israel and given for "FREE" "

AGAIN, do you have evidence to say show otherwise?i did not think so, With the amount of posts you have made in the past 24 hours which funny enough amounts to your total posts since 2006 when you joined, i can not help but wonder if you are a troll or a member with double identity

But just to show you some military assistance, from Israel to US,

Israel reportedly helping with U.S. war preparation

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002-11-03-israel-usat_x.htm

Edited May 21, 2011 by kuffki