I Need Urgent Advice

[tropo]

http://www.alibaba.c...ergy_meter.html

This is my new meter. Look at the picture.

You posted this photo as your new meter:

Now you're posting a photo of a different meter which has red digits.

Just post the photo of the new reading of your new meter which started at zero in January, the one in this photo.

Edited May 23, 2011 by tropo

[Thaifan2]

for Tropo,

You were saying that the A/Cs were probably old units .Not so as Park Lane is only one year old .They have Samsung A/Cs which look small and may be just 10 btu .His Condo is a double unit so has two of them .

You are right for saying that his bills for some months are unbelievabley low.

[YuryBalyasnikov]

http://www.alibaba.c...ergy_meter.html

This is my new meter. Look at the picture.

You posted this photo as your new meter:

Now you're posting a photo of a different meter which has red digits.

Look at the model(DD28). Its the same model. So they works on the same basis.

[YuryBalyasnikov]

for Tropo,

You were saying that the A/Cs were probably old units .Not so as Park Lane is only one year old .They have Samsung A/Cs which look small and may be just 10 btu .His Condo is a double unit so has two of them .

You are right for saying that his bills for some months are unbelievabley low.

As i said before. Iam living in 2bedrooms condo, but only using one bedroom and living room. Sec bedroom is empty. We moved in 2bed condo just because 1bed is way toooooo small.

We r not cooking. We r not watching TV. We have only 3 20W lamps in livingrooms, working for 3 hours a day maximum. Yes we r using computers and SAFE MODE on AC.

So yes, my bills looks low, but only because we use low )

P.S. January bill. 294 Bath. We were 2 week in Macau that month ) So its 2 times less then feb-apr

Edited May 23, 2011 by YuryBalyasnikov

[Thaifan2]

^Fair enough as that would explain the low usage ,and make a bill of B7,400 look increadible ( even at 7 c unit ) .

[YuryBalyasnikov]

Ok. Iam going to meet my lawer in 30 minutes. Will inform u in any result.

Edited May 23, 2011 by YuryBalyasnikov

[uwe_rayong]

There is a simple solution to your problem.

Turn off all electric devices in your condo.

Turn on your powerful 1000 Watt Juicer.

Walk to the meter and observe it for a period of 10 minutes.

If the meter counts 1/10 of one KW/H the numbers should change 1-2 times in the 10 minutes period, if it counts 1 KW/H it should barely move.

I have a house with two 12K Btu and one 18K BTU which all running around 18:00 - 08:00 at around 24°C. Apart from that one fridge, chest freezer, two tv`s and 2 Computer, stereo etc.

Direct payment, I have never less then 3000 THB a month, in the hot season it is 4000-5000 THB a month. I live hear for 9 years.

A faulty or dirty a/c can be an expensive thing.

I think your meter only counts full KW/H.

[kdc1899]

^Fair enough as that would explain the low usage ,and make a bill of B7,400 look increadible ( even at 7 c unit ) .

Not as incredible as a 740 baht bill during the hot and humid month of April in which he ran his A/C every night.

740 baht at 7 baht per kwh.

At the standard rate his April bill would only be twelve U.S. dollars for the month.

My computer and coffee machine costs $12 per month at the standard rate.

You can see from the first page in this thread why his neighbors and management are put off.

From page one we all cut him some slack and just said to just deal with it and move on.

He's gonna find himself losing in civil court soon if he doesn't follow this advice ( which he came here seeking ).

[tropo]

Prastee meenya pozhalosta

sorry

I was just showing you how anything can be twisted (even when math is on your side).

It's usually a serious thing when someone accuses a corporation of fraud.

Maybe not much of an issue in this country but the flip side to that is the lack of remedies for wrongs.

good luck to ya

Its actually quite bizarre. He's spent a great deal of effort trying to prove that the Provincial Electric Authority has miss-labelled the meters they provided to everyone in my neighborhood and are overcharging everyone by a factor of 10. This guy's face is about to receive a truck load of egg.

[gmac]

Prastee meenya pozhalosta

sorry

I was just showing you how anything can be twisted (even when math is on your side).

It's usually a serious thing when someone accuses a corporation of fraud.

Maybe not much of an issue in this country but the flip side to that is the lack of remedies for wrongs.

good luck to ya

Its actually quite bizarre. He's spent a great deal of effort trying to prove that the Provincial Electric Authority has miss-labelled the meters they provided to everyone in my neighborhood and are overcharging everyone by a factor of 10. This guy's face is about to receive a truck load of egg.

If you look back to the photo of the meter in the OP you may notice that the right hand digit is calibrated in a way which pretty clearly indicates that it is in fractions rather than kilowatt hours. There is also a large black box surrounding the main reading in KW/h which again strongly supports his understanding of the situation. Seems to me that the egg may hit a different face. The main point of contention here is his meter not yours.

[Thaifan2]

^^ the meter the OP has is the tempory one .The official electric company meter is not put in untill the owner has paid all moneys due on the Condo plus transfer fees ,and has his Chanote .

Edited May 23, 2011 by Thaifan2

[tropo]

Prastee meenya pozhalosta

sorry

I was just showing you how anything can be twisted (even when math is on your side).

It's usually a serious thing when someone accuses a corporation of fraud.

Maybe not much of an issue in this country but the flip side to that is the lack of remedies for wrongs.

good luck to ya

Its actually quite bizarre. He's spent a great deal of effort trying to prove that the Provincial Electric Authority has miss-labelled the meters they provided to everyone in my neighborhood and are overcharging everyone by a factor of 10. This guy's face is about to receive a truck load of egg.

If you look back to the photo of the meter in the OP you may notice that the right hand digit is calibrated in a way which pretty clearly indicates that it is in fractions rather than kilowatt hours. There is also a large black box surrounding the main reading in KW/h which again strongly supports his understanding of the situation. Seems to me that the egg may hit a different face. The main point of contention here is his meter not yours.

If you'd been paying attention you would have discovered that quite a few meters are in contention here.

As was shown in several posts, any unit can be configured differently....the current electric company's model is proof of that.

The egg will be hitting your face too.

Edited May 23, 2011 by tropo

[tingtongtourist]

for Tropo,

You were saying that the A/Cs were probably old units .Not so as Park Lane is only one year old .They have Samsung A/Cs which look small and may be just 10 btu .His Condo is a double unit so has two of them .

You are right for saying that his bills for some months are unbelievabley low.

As i said before. Iam living in 2bedrooms condo, but only using one bedroom and living room. Sec bedroom is empty. We moved in 2bed condo just because 1bed is way toooooo small.

We r not cooking. We r not watching TV. We have only 3 20W lamps in livingrooms, working for 3 hours a day maximum. Yes we r using computers and SAFE MODE on AC.

So yes, my bills looks low, but only because we use low )

P.S. January bill. 294 Bath. We were 2 week in Macau that month ) So its 2 times less then feb-apr

Maybe the person who mess up your bill before found their own mistake and now they have tried to even the score by making your bill to low.

I have known this to happen, it is their strange way of trying to fix things without anyone loosing their face.

Maybe you should add up all the power you have used in this whole time and see if all the money you have paid works out to be right at the end

[YuryBalyasnikov]

My current meter:

Model: DD28

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/424697357/DD28_electric_energy_meter.html

Look right down:

Any more questions?

[YuryBalyasnikov]

As for the meeting. Managers we in panic. They were trying to pretend anything. THey even tried to change my meter once agian )))

They were trying to act themselfs as they dont know anything about "," in the numbers )

So my lawers took the copy of all of my documents and went into the store to buy the same meter. BUT with product details on Thai language.

So they can see , that they charged me wrong. If they not agree again - time to start the case....

[kdc1899]

As for the meeting. Managers we in panic. They were trying to pretend anything. THey even tried to change my meter once agian )))

They were trying to act themselfs as they dont know anything about "," in the numbers )

So my lawers took the copy of all of my documents and went into the store to buy the same meter. BUT with product details on Thai language.

So they can see , that they charged me wrong. If they not agree again - time to start the case....

So you've done 3832 kwh in a few months.

Normal

3832 X 7 baht per = 26,824 baht

You also went to a meeting. Had part of the meeting. Went with your lawyer to some store that had your meter and got the thai version of the book. Returned to meeting. Went home and turned on your computer

In 2 hours

please go away

[YuryBalyasnikov]

As for the meeting. Managers we in panic. They were trying to pretend anything. THey even tried to change my meter once agian )))

They were trying to act themselfs as they dont know anything about "," in the numbers )

So my lawers took the copy of all of my documents and went into the store to buy the same meter. BUT with product details on Thai language.

So they can see , that they charged me wrong. If they not agree again - time to start the case....

So you've done 3832 kwh in a few months.

Normal

3832 X 7 baht per = 26,824 baht

You also went to a meeting. Had part of the meeting. Went with your lawyer to some store that had your meter and got the thai version of the book. Returned to meeting. Went home and turned on your computer

In 2 hours

please go away

Yes. went to meeting downstairs. Then MY LAWER took all papers and went to store with my friend.

Stop pretending.

U saw a picture above? i even marked with red for u. its 383.2 kWth. Yes. There is a dot between numbers there. And yes, this meter for only 9999 kWth. But u dont care. As i see it now - u just trolling around.

All my fact r above. End of conversation with u.

Edited May 23, 2011 by YuryBalyasnikov

[smokie36]

As for the meeting. Managers we in panic. They were trying to pretend anything. THey even tried to change my meter once agian )))

They were trying to act themselfs as they dont know anything about "," in the numbers )

So my lawers took the copy of all of my documents and went into the store to buy the same meter. BUT with product details on Thai language.

So they can see , that they charged me wrong. If they not agree again - time to start the case....

So you've done 3832 kwh in a few months.

Normal

3832 X 7 baht per = 26,824 baht

You also went to a meeting. Had part of the meeting. Went with your lawyer to some store that had your meter and got the thai version of the book. Returned to meeting. Went home and turned on your computer

In 2 hours

please go away

Yes. went to meeting downstairs. Then MY LAWER took all papers and went to store with my friend.

Stop pretending.

U saw a picture above? i even marked with red for u. its 383.2 kWth. Yes. There is a dot between numbers there. And yes, this meter for only 9999 kWth. But u dont care. As i see it now - u just trolling around.

All my fact r above. End of conversation with u.

Must say your case looks pretty convincing. Best of luck in getting your money returned!

[Jdietz]

As you -may- have noticed if you studied the pictures carefully (like having actually looked at them) you could maybe have seen that the meter in your photo is not exactly 100% the same as the Chinese thingy you found on Google...

- Different brand

- Different readout

- Different calibration (200revs/kWh <> 600revs/kWh)

I agree that most likely the Googled meter has readout in 10ths of kWh, but your meter most definitely isn't.

Also a usage of 380 kWh in a month would be doable, -if- you don't run the airconditioner all that often (couple of times a month), but most certainly not over a period of many months, with nightly airco usage and a computer running.

How long did you have that new meter? 3832kWh is maybe a bit on the high side for a few months, but not 10x.

FYI, here's yet another 'DD28' meter, with a totally different calibration of 300revs/kWh, there seem to be many models with this number around:

What other stuff has been connected to your meter is of course anybodies guess (Hall lighting, elevators, neighbors, ...)

Like I mentioned before it is easy to check if you can be bothered to sit in front of the meter for half an hour or so. Count 20 revolutions of the disc and see if the number goes up by 1 full digit, or just a small partition.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Jdietz

[YuryBalyasnikov]

Jdietz

1) Sorry, cant answer u right now. Going to Visa-Run in Laos till 26 may. May friend will be here with the lawer,so i will update all info in 26th. Guess i ll be cutoff...

To all:

2) I want u all guys understand one thing. Iam not trying to prove u smth. Im not trying to take ur money. Im not trying abuse u.

I m just sharing information with u. With any kind "proofs" i have. Dont be angry. Lets solve this togather!

If someone can proffesionally(links,photos etc) prove that i am wrong - i ll be the first to apologize.

CU at 26th

Edited May 23, 2011 by YuryBalyasnikov

[Jdietz]

Have a nice trip, don't forget to buy the local coffee (it's great) and some candles....

[Thaifan2]

OP ,electricity bill problems aside ,i bet you will be glad to get back to Park Lane and that lovely 1,860 sqm Lagoon pool .

I know i miss it up here in Chiang Mai .

[jay1980]

I find it very unlikely that the management at Park Lane is running a scam regarding charging for electric.

The reason I say this is because the manager went out of her way to help me transfer my Park Lane condo to city electric when I got my Charnote. If there was a scam running she would not have done this, as it would have worked against the scam.

I have always found the manager at Park Lane very helpful, however I always deal with her in a polite and calm manor.

Also the tenants who rent my condo commented to me how much cheaper the bills are compared to the condo they used to rent in VT1, even before when they were using electric at the condo rate.

I am sure the problem must be a mistake or some faulty electrical item making the bills more high.

It is sad some people immediately jump to the conclusion something is a scam as soon as any problematic issue arises in Thailand.

[tropo]

As you -may- have noticed if you studied the pictures carefully (like having actually looked at them) you could maybe have seen that the meter in your photo is not exactly 100% the same as the Chinese thingy you found on Google...

- Different brand

- Different readout

- Different calibration (200revs/kWh <> 600revs/kWh)

I agree that most likely the Googled meter has readout in 10ths of kWh, but your meter most definitely isn't.

Also a usage of 380 kWh in a month would be doable, -if- you don't run the airconditioner all that often (couple of times a month), but most certainly not over a period of many months, with nightly airco usage and a computer running.

How long did you have that new meter? 3832kWh is maybe a bit on the high side for a few months, but not 10x.

FYI, here's yet another 'DD28' meter, with a totally different calibration of 300revs/kWh, there seem to be many models with this number around:

What other stuff has been connected to your meter is of course anybodies guess (Hall lighting, elevators, neighbors, ...)

Like I mentioned before it is easy to check if you can be bothered to sit in front of the meter for half an hour or so. Count 20 revolutions of the disc and see if the number goes up by 1 full digit, or just a small partition.

Well, despite the photos of his current reading we really haven't gone far.

Just to clarify:

This is his photo of the new meter he claims was installed in January reading 00001.

Which was read on January 21 as shown in this scan of his January invoice:

Therefore the new meter must have been installed on December 20 as per the invoice above.

He also posted a scan of his May invoice. This new meter was read on May 20 at 03727 kWh:

Therefore from Dec 20 to May 20 he used 3727 kWh of electricity.

That's 3727 kWh for a full 5 months supply of electricity. Now the OP wants us to believe that this is high by a factor of 10 and that they shouldn't have read the last digit on the meter because it is only 1/10 units.

Today he took a photo of his new meter showing 3832 kWh, therefore in the past 4 days he has used 105 kWh, or about 26.25 kWh per day. This would mean he's on track for a June bill of about 780 kWh unless they disconnect his electricity and he reverts to using candles.

The dispute is over the last digit on his meter. Is it whole units or 1/10 units?

If the last digit is indeed 1/10 units as the OP claims, then his totally electricity consumption for the 5 months from December 20 until May 20 is only 372 kWh. At the true government rate that would be a bill of 1361 baht (including tax) FOR 5 MONTHS SUPPLY using air conditioning every night as he claims.

He hasn't yet told us at what temperature setting he keeps his air conditioner on. Low temperature settings will consume a lot of energy. There has also been a clue given by the OP that his air conditioning unit may not be in good working order as he mentioned that they refused to replace it. Why would replacement have been an issue if it was running well? Poorly maintained air conditioners can waste an incredible amount of electricity, specifically if the compressor is staying on.

In summation we can choose between 2 camps:

A. Those who side with the OP and believe that his 5 month power consumption was 372 kWh.

B. Those who believe he is wrong and his total consumption for those 5 months was 3727 kWh.

[gguy]

The ongoing kwh are calculated by the spinning circle before the numbers. As a kwh is used, the circle rotates. One complete rotation is one kwh. The number on the meter is advanced by each complete rotation.

One another matter, my electric bill this month was 3500 baht at government rates. This is too much. Who can I sue?

[tropo]

As a kwh is used, the circle rotates. One complete rotation is one kwh.

This is not true. Different meters vary.

In this thread I see 3 different calibrations on different meters.

1. 60 rev/kWh

2. 40 rev/kWh

3. 200 rev/kWh

Photos of each of these have been posted on this thread.

[Thaifan2]

Q Tropo>>In summation we can choose between 2 camps:

A. Those who side with the OP and believe that his 5 month power consumption was 372 kWh.

B. Those who believe he is wrong and his total consumption for those 5 months was 3727 kWh.

<<

I vote for the op .His consumption 372 kwh over 5 months ,thats a total bill of B2,604 ( @ 7c a unit ),making an average of B520 a month for electric .I believe this based on his life style ie,no cooking ,or tv and only using one nearly new A/C in a new well sealed Condo .

We dont know if he even uses the A/C every night .

Q Tropo>> Well, despite the photos of his current reading we really haven't gone far.<<

You were the one who said that his current reading would clear up every thing .

About water ,they are charging 27 B a unit .Maybe this is normal in Condos ?.Up in my house in Chiang Mai water is charged on a sliding scale based on usage which can be as low as 10 B a unit going up to 17 baht a unit .

Edited May 24, 2011 by Thaifan2

[tropo]

I vote for the op .His consumption 372 kwh over 5 months ,thats a total bill of B2,604 ( @ 7c a unit ),making an average of B520 a month for electric .I believe this based on his life style ie,no cooking ,or tv and only using one nearly new A/C in a new well sealed Condo .

We dont know if he even uses the A/C every night .

Q Tropo>> Well, despite the photos of his current reading we really haven't gone far.<<

You were the one who said that his current reading would clear up every thing .

You have been paying attention. I realized after I had posted that comment (and gone past the edit time) that the reading on his meter yesterday wouldn't make any difference to our dispute.

The reading he got was exactly what I expected.

Where did he say the aircon unit was new? I missed that.

Edited May 24, 2011 by tropo

[Gik]

I vote for the op .His consumption 372 kwh over 5 months ,thats a total bill of B2,604 ( @ 7c a unit ),making an average of B520 a month for electric .I believe this based on his life style ie,no cooking ,or tv and only using one nearly new A/C in a new well sealed Condo .

We dont know if he even uses the A/C every night .

Q Tropo>> Well, despite the photos of his current reading we really haven't gone far.<<

You were the one who said that his current reading would clear up every thing .

You have been paying attention. I realized after I had posted that comment (and gone past the edit time) that the reading on his meter yesterday wouldn't make any difference to our dispute.

The reading he got was exactly what I expected.

Where did he say the aircon unit was new? I missed that.

cause condo is new.

375 is unreal if you calculated right. Im too lazy ti check the numbers.

[smokie36]

I vote for the op .His consumption 372 kwh over 5 months ,thats a total bill of B2,604 ( @ 7c a unit ),making an average of B520 a month for electric .I believe this based on his life style ie,no cooking ,or tv and only using one nearly new A/C in a new well sealed Condo .

We dont know if he even uses the A/C every night .

Q Tropo>> Well, despite the photos of his current reading we really haven't gone far.<<

You were the one who said that his current reading would clear up every thing .

You have been paying attention. I realized after I had posted that comment (and gone past the edit time) that the reading on his meter yesterday wouldn't make any difference to our dispute.

The reading he got was exactly what I expected.

Where did he say the aircon unit was new? I missed that.

cause condo is new.

375 is unreal if you calculated right. Im too lazy ti check the numbers.

For my 2 bed bungalow water and electricity together never more than 600 Baht. However that's with no use of aircon.

Would be useful to know just how long each day the OP uses this. If its on all the time then it could well be 10x the price.

However if he is using fans and being careful then its not impossible.