Reasons of change

[CaptHaddock]

We are moving to BKK in August. My wife is Thai and I will have a non-imm O visa based on marriage, but I am retired and will not work in Thailand. I was ready to open a bank account at HSBC BKK when I discovered that if I were to open it now from the US, I would have to have a non-resident account and that it could never be changed to resident account even after moving there. What's more, if I open a non-resident account now, that gets reported to the Bank of Thailand and becomes my permanent status forever, even with other Thai banks.

The only difference that I can see for a non-resident THB account vs. a resident THB at HSBC is that there is no checking feature on the non-resident account. It is not clear that the checking feature is very valuable. Does anyone know of other reasons not to take the non-resident account now? I was thinking that having an account before arriving would be convenient, but I wouldn't want to get stuck permanently with some unsuspected problem.

[Langsuan Man]

Will you have assets left in the US ?

Will you have a pension paid in the us ?

Will you receive any retirement distributions, IRA's, annuities, etc. paid from the US ?

If you are going to move all of your assets to Thailand then you might want to re-consider HSBC, since it only has one branch in Thailand, Bangkok, and that will become your primary bank and may not be suitable

Having the checking feature, as far as I have seen is pretty much useless in Thailand, since no one takes checks. You pay either by bank draft or cash

In order for someone more knowledgeable to advise you, you need to answer the question regarding your financial status listed above

[CaptHaddock]

Will you have assets left in the US ?

Will you have a pension paid in the us ?

Will you receive any retirement distributions, IRA's, annuities, etc. paid from the US ?

If you are going to move all of your assets to Thailand then you might want to re-consider HSBC, since it only has one branch in Thailand, Bangkok, and that will become your primary bank and may not be suitable

Having the checking feature, as far as I have seen is pretty much useless in Thailand, since no one takes checks. You pay either by bank draft or cash

In order for someone more knowledgeable to advise you, you need to answer the question regarding your financial status listed above

My only question is: what is the difference between a resident and a non-resident bank account for someone who plans to reside in Thailand. I am not asking for a recommendation on a bank. I plan to use the account only to pay bills like rent in Thailand. What do you mean by "bank draft?" To me a bank draft is a check. Do you mean electronic funds transfer? I understood that renters in BKK typically pay their rent by EFT. I assume that either type of account can accommodate an EFT even though the non-resident account is described as a "savings account." Is that the case?

[Langsuan Man]

You will never be a Thai resident until such time as you apply for and receive permanent residence status. That is why you are issued a non immigrant visa and is also the reason why you will have to open a non resident bank account

That is the difference between a non resident account and a resident account

And what I mean by bank draft is that many bills here in Thailand allow you to go into a bank and pay them at the counter, ie. draft versus check

Edited May 24, 2011 by Langsuan Man

[CaptHaddock]

You will never be a Thai resident until such time as you apply for and receive permanent residence status. That is why you are issued a non immigrant visa and is also the reason why you will have to open a non resident bank account

That is the difference between a non resident account and a resident account

And what I mean by bank draft is that many bills here in Thailand allow you to go into a bank and pay them at the counter, ie. draft versus check

It's not correct that a "resident" bank account requires or implies that the holder has PR status. That's confusing bank terminology with Immigration's. According to HSBC's documents a foreigner can qualify for a resident bank account with any of these documents:

1. Work Permit

2. Retirement Visa

3. Certificate of Resident

4. Alien Certificate

I am not sure what #3 & #4 are. Does anyone know? Is #3 for PR? Does a holder of a non-imm O have #4?

[Pib]

I think all it means is with a resident account it means your primary residence for most of the year is in Thailand and you will earn interest on the account. As a non-resident account this means you don't live in Thailand most of the year, only visit occasionally, etc., and you probably won't earn interest on the account. Got nothing to do with PR.

Having the ability to write checks in Thailand means little except "maybe" in a business....the common Thai basically does "not" use checks; only cash or debit/credit card....I've never, ever saw a Thai write out a check or a store accept one. Don't know about the part where once coded as a non-resident account it can never be changed and it creates some type of permanent record with the BOT...that sounds really strange...never heard of that before....I tend to think there was a communication disconnect. But if it's true due to some archaic banking rule (HSBC or BOT), then hopefully by just opening a new account as a resident account once you get here then you will be good to go. But basically, to get a resident account you need to have a long term visa (1 year), be on a extension of stay (1 year), or have a work permit. The certificate of residence (provided by MFA or immigration...lots of people get these for various needs) or a yellow book (issued by your district office) is basically saying your "residence is now in Thailand" versus just being a tourist, visiting every once and a while, etc. Opening a joint account with your Thai wife will be a piece of cake; you can also open an account in your own name but you may want to wait until you move to Thailand and can easily prove you "residence" with your long term visa. Be sure to stress you are a "residence" of Thailand (which only means you live here during the year....doesn't mean anything else) so they will code your account to receive interest.

Any reason for wanting to open a HSBC account....HSBC banks are not throughout the country....versus opening an account with another Thai bank like Bangkok Bank, K-Bank, SCB, etc. which are pretty much everywhere in Thailand. Personally, I've been with Bangkok Bank for many years and I'm a satisfied customer....and their web site is by far the best English banking website in Thailand, especially for explaining about any question you would probably have...search a little on their web site and you'll probably find your answer...that's why so many times on ThaiVisa, members will use cut & pastes from/links to the Bangkok Bank web site;.other Thai banks have pretty much basic/bare bone English web sites and don't go into a lot of detail...always tell you to visit your local branch (so you can have all your miscommunication face-to-face). Good luck in the move.

[expatman]

One big difference is that banks pay NO interest on non-resident accounts.

But the interest rate on (resident) savings accounts is not very much.

I agree with another poster who suggests opening an account with a Thai bank. More ATM's, and you can use Internet banking to pay your rent, utility bills, transfer money to your wife's account, etc. I use Bangkok Bank - Kasikorn Bank and Siam Commercial Bank are also OK.

[chiang mai]

Part of the original post is incorrect, you can change an HSBC account from resident to non-resident and visa versa once it is opened but you must do so from inside Thailand, I know this to be true because I've done it.

Also, the main differences between the two account types: you can't deposit Thai Baht into a non-resident account and this can be problematic when you sell a Thai asset such as a car or real estate.

I've had my HSBC Bangkok account for many years and it works well on all fronts, ATM access throughout the country, statements every month and the same facilities needed by most folks - EFT in and out is also very easy.

[CaptHaddock]

Pib,

The HSBC documents do state the restrictions on non-resident accounts that I described, although they may not be correct. I am waiting to hear from the HSBC rep. The reason for choosing HSBC is that I will be able to do free transfers from my US HSBC account, get reimbursed atm charges, and some other lesser benefits. Since I'll be able to use any atm for withdrawals and will be able to pay bills with EFT using their website, I don't see the need to go into a local branch. After we have been in Thailand for a while, we'll review it and see if Bangkok Bank would be better. Thanks for the additional info on non-resident accounts.

[CaptHaddock]

Part of the original post is incorrect, you can change an HSBC account from resident to non-resident and visa versa once it is opened but you must do so from inside Thailand, I know this to be true because I've done it.

Also, the main differences between the two account types: you can't deposit Thai Baht into a non-resident account and this can be problematic when you sell a Thai asset such as a car or real estate.

I've had my HSBC Bangkok account for many years and it works well on all fronts, ATM access throughout the country, statements every month and the same facilities needed by most folks - EFT in and out is also very easy.

That's interesting that you were able to change the account status. I'll bring that up when I speak to the HSBC rep. Have you found the Thai HSBC website adequate for paying your bills with EFT? I assume that if you are using a Bangkok Bank atm, you can make a withdrawal from your HSBC account, but you can't make a payment from it to another bank. Is that the case? If true, that might be a reason to need an account at a Thai bank, although if you can pay bills easily enough with the HSBC website then that would not be important.

[Pib]

Pib,

The HSBC documents do state the restrictions on non-resident accounts that I described, although they may not be correct. I am waiting to hear from the HSBC rep. The reason for choosing HSBC is that I will be able to do free transfers from my US HSBC account, get reimbursed atm charges, and some other lesser benefits. Since I'll be able to use any atm for withdrawals and will be able to pay bills with EFT using their website, I don't see the need to go into a local branch. After we have been in Thailand for a while, we'll review it and see if Bangkok Bank would be better. Thanks for the additional info on non-resident accounts.

There are a couple current topics in this topic area talking about HSBC service in Bangkok and the HSBC credit card. You might want to read these to get more info/opinions on HSBC service/products in Thailand.

[PattayaParent]

There's nothing to stop you having a HSBC account in Bangkok to take advantage of your free transfers to Thailand and then withdrawing the money and putting it into a local bank to take advantage of any benefits that might give you.

[IMA_FARANG]

I'm not sure by what you mean by a "non-resident" bank account and a "resident" bank account. I'll talk about the bank account later...but first let me deal with another point.

Even though you can live here in Thailand, and have a Thai wife, you will not be a Thai "resident" under Thai law unless you complete the requirements for becoming a "Permanent resident" under Thai law. That process is long, requires you to pass a test of how well you speak Thai (a written and spoken test, I believe) and requires you to live in Thailand for a number of years before you can even apply. So don't expect to be a legal Thai "resident" anytime soon, if at all.

As I understand it you want to retire in Thailand. You will first need to get a Thai visa...and it should be a long term visa. A one year multi-enry O visa (good for a year) or a double entry Tourist visa (good for a total of 8 months with extensions included) will give you the time you need to establish the required bank account and process all the documents you need to get a retirement extension or a marriage extension in Thailand...but don't shortchange yourself on the time. It's far better to have more time than you really need to process the extension, than to find yourself rushed when some unexpected hitch comes up in the paperwork for your extension, than it s to be rushing about trying to get all the paperwork completed. The Thai consulate nearest you in the U.S. certainly will have a website with what information you need, and a contact number you can call to ask if you do have any questions. In your case, being married to a Thai, you best choice is probably to go for a marriage extension to your visa to stay long term here in Thailand.

Now back to the bank account question. First of all, I reccomend that your Thai wife open a bank account in her name here in Thailand. Then you make an arrangement with your U.S. bank to transfer a certain amount of money from your U.S. account to your Thai wife's bank account here in Thailand. This might require you signing some documents at your U.S. bank in order to get the transfer started and approved. Your U.S. bank will need the name, account number, and location of the Thai bank you want the funds sent to in Thailand. Bangkok bank is a good bank to use for this, because it has a branch in New York...so your U.S. bank can transfer funds by the SWIFT money transfer system through the Bangkok bank in New York to your wife's Bangkok bank account in Thailand. That is what I do to provide living expenses for my Thai wife and family here in Bangkok. She will be able to get an ATM/debit card and withdraw the funds for living expenses here in Thailand with that ATM card. So now you have a method of getting funds for you and her here in Thailand. If Bangkok bank will allow it, some branches may but other branches won't, TRY to get the account established as a JOINT account..in both the name of your Thai wife and your name. It can make a big difference in how they treat you when you want to open an acount for yourself if you already have a joint account for you and your wife with them. So that's another reason to open that joint account first.

Now to open your bank account here in Thailand. You will almost certainly need a long-term (6 months or longer) visa before the bank will open an account for you as a foriegner living here in Thailand. That's why I recommended that you try to get a multi-entry type O visa, good for one year, before you come to Thailand to live. It will make a big difference on how the bank here in Thailand looks at you. Also opening your bank account here in Thailand will take time...mainly to get that initial transfer of funds from your U.S. bank account completed. I estimate 30 to 45 days at the minimum will be required. So plan that ahead of time.

In my personal experience I have found that the Bangkok bank branch on Soi 43, Sukhumvit Road, Bangkok is one of the "foriegner friendliest" branches of Thai banks. When I first attemted to open a bank account in the Bangkok bank branch nearest where I live in Bangkok with my Thai wife...the local Bangkok bank branch didn't want to open an account for me in my name. So I drove across Bangkok to that Sukhumvit Road, Soi 43 branch where I already had a joint account for my wife and myself. About 15 minutes later, and after showing my passport and visa, then signing some forms...my bank account was opened in my name and I had a ATM/debit card to use in all Bangkok bank ATMs..including the one in the branch nearest my house...the same one that wouldn't open my account originally.

The point of what I just told you is that here in Thailand one branch of a certain bank may not want to open an acount for you...but another one in another part of the city may be wiling to open an account. So if you are refused in one branch ...keep trying in another branc. And your wife already having that joint account in the bank WILL make it easier to get your own account in your name established.

Sorry this post is so long, but I hope it gave you some useful information anyhow.

[chiang mai]

Part of the original post is incorrect, you can change an HSBC account from resident to non-resident and visa versa once it is opened but you must do so from inside Thailand, I know this to be true because I've done it.

Also, the main differences between the two account types: you can't deposit Thai Baht into a non-resident account and this can be problematic when you sell a Thai asset such as a car or real estate.

I've had my HSBC Bangkok account for many years and it works well on all fronts, ATM access throughout the country, statements every month and the same facilities needed by most folks - EFT in and out is also very easy.

That's interesting that you were able to change the account status. I'll bring that up when I speak to the HSBC rep. Have you found the Thai HSBC website adequate for paying your bills with EFT? I assume that if you are using a Bangkok Bank atm, you can make a withdrawal from your HSBC account, but you can't make a payment from it to another bank. Is that the case? If true, that might be a reason to need an account at a Thai bank, although if you can pay bills easily enough with the HSBC website then that would not be important.

I pay a couple of my monthly bills via standing order direct from HSBC Bangkok, it's not quite an EFT transaction but it does work. On the date the payment is to be made HSBC BKK cuts a cashiers cheque made payable to the designated beneficiary in the amount specified - the beneficiaries bank happens to be Bangkok Bank which is almost ext door to HSBC. The cheque is given to a courier who takes it to BB and deposits it into the beneficiaries account and at some later date the beneficiary receives the money! It's an antiquated system but it does work and is very reliable.

Also, when talking to HSBC about account types you are likely to get different answers from an overseas branch than you will from the BKK branch, that's just the way it is I'm afraid.

Finally, your understanding of ATM withdrawal via BB and payments is correct.

[Pib]

Using Bangkok Bank internet banking I pay all my monthly bills like electricity, TV, landline, cell phone post pay plans, etc., with the exception of my water bill. Using the Payment/Bill Payment function, the payment is easy and fast...transfer of funds to pay the bills is immediate. Cost is each payment is usually free or 10 baht. For the water bill I pay that at 7-11, Lotus, etc., since the water company is not setup for internet bill payment....water company is a little behind the times on it's billing...but paying at 7-11, Lotus, etc., is a piece of cake. I also pay a couple yearly bills like auto insurance by using the internet banking...once again fast, easy, & cheap. You can also go the a Bangkok Bank ATM and do the same type of payments except you usually need to punch in a bunch of account numbers and it takes a few minutes to get all that done...I prefer to pay from home using internet banking...plus the internet banking maintains a history of your payments for your later review. Yeap, easy, fast, cheap, secure, etc.

[CaptHaddock]

I pay a couple of my monthly bills via standing order direct from HSBC Bangkok, it's not quite an EFT transaction but it does work. On the date the payment is to be made HSBC BKK cuts a cashiers cheque made payable to the designated beneficiary in the amount specified - the beneficiaries bank happens to be Bangkok Bank which is almost ext door to HSBC. The cheque is given to a courier who takes it to BB and deposits it into the beneficiaries account and at some later date the beneficiary receives the money! It's an antiquated system but it does work and is very reliable.

Also, when talking to HSBC about account types you are likely to get different answers from an overseas branch than you will from the BKK branch, that's just the way it is I'm afraid.

Finally, your understanding of ATM withdrawal via BB and payments is correct.

There is so much to learn when you are not in Kansas anymore. So the transfer function to local beneficiary via BAHTNET/SMART mentioned on HSBC Thailand's website is a couriered cashier's check? Is there no actual EFT available at all? Sounds a little primitive, but if it works I guess it would be fine. Do you get the canceled cashier's check as proof of payment? I don't see any discussion here on disputed payments which would be resolved in the US by a canceled check, as you know. Does this problem not arise in BKK?

Thanks for the helpful info, by the way.

[CaptHaddock]

Using Bangkok Bank internet banking I pay all my monthly bills like electricity, TV, landline, cell phone post pay plans, etc., with the exception of my water bill. Using the Payment/Bill Payment function, the payment is easy and fast...transfer of funds to pay the bills is immediate. Cost is each payment is usually free or 10 baht. For the water bill I pay that at 7-11, Lotus, etc., since the water company is not setup for internet bill payment....water company is a little behind the times on it's billing...but paying at 7-11, Lotus, etc., is a piece of cake. I also pay a couple yearly bills like auto insurance by using the internet banking...once again fast, easy, & cheap. You can also go the a Bangkok Bank ATM and do the same type of payments except you usually need to punch in a bunch of account numbers and it takes a few minutes to get all that done...I prefer to pay from home using internet banking...plus the internet banking maintains a history of your payments for your later review. Yeap, easy, fast, cheap, secure, etc.

I know that Bangkok Bank has a good website and services, but I am planning on leveraging our existing HSBC relationship at least initially. If it is not satisfactory we will switch to BK later.

Thanks for the info.

[chiang mai]

I pay a couple of my monthly bills via standing order direct from HSBC Bangkok, it's not quite an EFT transaction but it does work. On the date the payment is to be made HSBC BKK cuts a cashiers cheque made payable to the designated beneficiary in the amount specified - the beneficiaries bank happens to be Bangkok Bank which is almost ext door to HSBC. The cheque is given to a courier who takes it to BB and deposits it into the beneficiaries account and at some later date the beneficiary receives the money! It's an antiquated system but it does work and is very reliable.

Also, when talking to HSBC about account types you are likely to get different answers from an overseas branch than you will from the BKK branch, that's just the way it is I'm afraid.

Finally, your understanding of ATM withdrawal via BB and payments is correct.

There is so much to learn when you are not in Kansas anymore. So the transfer function to local beneficiary via BAHTNET/SMART mentioned on HSBC Thailand's website is a couriered cashier's check? Is there no actual EFT available at all? Sounds a little primitive, but if it works I guess it would be fine. Do you get the canceled cashier's check as proof of payment? I don't see any discussion here on disputed payments which would be resolved in the US by a canceled check, as you know. Does this problem not arise in BKK?

Thanks for the helpful info, by the way.

The HSBC payment/transfer I described above is a bit of an anomaly and I think it's unique to HSBC, other banks such as Kasikorn and Bangkok Bank seem to have fully fledged use guided EFT/payment facilities in place. It's also not clear to me whether the system I described is BATHNET or not, I think it is not and is perhaps a long term work around measure. It's important to remember that HSBC only has a single branch in Thailand so the focus of their business is not exactly consumer branch banking, having said that they do provide all the necessary bits and pieces.

As for disputed payments and cancelled cheques: HSBC keeps the cheque copy and would no doubt produce it if required.

[Langsuan Man]

Your insistence on using HSBC because

The reason for choosing HSBC is that I will be able to do free transfers from my US HSBC account,

Will be a first reported here at Thai Visa

When I inquired at HSBC in Bangkok about this facility I was told that I would have to have a Premier HSBC account in both Thailand and the US. A Premier account required a minimum of 100,000 THB on deposit in Thailand, and after hearing that I did not even ask what a Premier account in the US required

I think your are going to find that there is really no easy way to transfer funds from the US to Thailand and certainly no free ways to do EFTS. The closest is going to be Bangkok Bank's EFTS service via their New York branch

But I don't know the details of your HSBC account so if I were you I would check with HSBC in Bangkok before making a final decision. I would not trust HSBC in the US since they are not necessarily familiar with Thailand's draconian banking laws

[Pib]

Yeap, HSBC in Thailand must operate under Thai banking laws/regulations and HSBC in country XYZ must operate under country XYZ laws/regulations. Having the same bank name does not mean the bank offers the same services and fees in each country the bank is located in. They are completely different business units except in bank name. But with that being said, I expect there are certain services/products/fees that apply worldwide....just don't expect all the services/products/fees to be equivalent or even available in each country. Thailand and Kansas are definitely different.

[chiang mai]

I thought I had read somewhere that HSBC was getting out of the US retail market, am I mistaken?

[CaptHaddock]

Your insistence on using HSBC because

The reason for choosing HSBC is that I will be able to do free transfers from my US HSBC account,

Will be a first reported here at Thai Visa

When I inquired at HSBC in Bangkok about this facility I was told that I would have to have a Premier HSBC account in both Thailand and the US. A Premier account required a minimum of 100,000 THB on deposit in Thailand, and after hearing that I did not even ask what a Premier account in the US required

I think your are going to find that there is really no easy way to transfer funds from the US to Thailand and certainly no free ways to do EFTS. The closest is going to be Bangkok Bank's EFTS service via their New York branch

But I don't know the details of your HSBC account so if I were you I would check with HSBC in Bangkok before making a final decision. I would not trust HSBC in the US since they are not necessarily familiar with Thailand's draconian banking laws

That's right. Our account is HSBC Premier.

[CaptHaddock]

I thought I had read somewhere that HSBC was getting out of the US retail market, am I mistaken?

They have been adding branches at a fast clip here in New York. There are now two of them within six blocks of my apartment.

[PattayaParent]

Your insistence on using HSBC because

The reason for choosing HSBC is that I will be able to do free transfers from my US HSBC account,

Will be a first reported here at Thai Visa

When I inquired at HSBC in Bangkok about this facility I was told that I would have to have a Premier HSBC account in both Thailand and the US. A Premier account required a minimum of 100,000 THB on deposit in Thailand, and after hearing that I did not even ask what a Premier account in the US required

I think your are going to find that there is really no easy way to transfer funds from the US to Thailand and certainly no free ways to do EFTS. The closest is going to be Bangkok Bank's EFTS service via their New York branch

But I don't know the details of your HSBC account so if I were you I would check with HSBC in Bangkok before making a final decision. I would not trust HSBC in the US since they are not necessarily familiar with Thailand's draconian banking laws

When I had a HSBC account all transfers to any other HSBC account in my name were free of charge, even if it was to another bank that held their account with HSBC.

I was never a Premier customer.

[chiang mai]

Your insistence on using HSBC because

The reason for choosing HSBC is that I will be able to do free transfers from my US HSBC account,

Will be a first reported here at Thai Visa

When I inquired at HSBC in Bangkok about this facility I was told that I would have to have a Premier HSBC account in both Thailand and the US. A Premier account required a minimum of 100,000 THB on deposit in Thailand, and after hearing that I did not even ask what a Premier account in the US required

I think your are going to find that there is really no easy way to transfer funds from the US to Thailand and certainly no free ways to do EFTS. The closest is going to be Bangkok Bank's EFTS service via their New York branch

But I don't know the details of your HSBC account so if I were you I would check with HSBC in Bangkok before making a final decision. I would not trust HSBC in the US since they are not necessarily familiar with Thailand's draconian banking laws

When I had a HSBC account all transfers to any other HSBC account in my name were free of charge, even if it was to another bank that held their account with HSBC.

I was never a Premier customer.

I agree, non-HSBC transfers above GBP20k can however be expensive for Premier customers.