A He*l Away From Home

[george]

A he*l away from home

BANGKOK: -- As the Bali nine face court this week, the media spotlight will once again fall on a handful of high-profile Australians in trouble abroad. But for more than 100 others in Asian jails, the struggle to be heard goes on. Erin O'Dwyer reports.

HOLLY DEANE-JOHNS was in Bangkok when a tsunami hit Thailand's southern beaches. Though close to the devastation, the young Perth woman spent weeks unaware of what had happened.

For five years the 32-year-old convicted heroin trafficker has been languishing in Thailand's notorious prison system. Her cell is filthy and cramped and she is isolated from the outside world. "I went to see Holly in February and she knew nothing about the tsunami," says her closest friend, 72-year-old Perth retiree Brian Haffenden.

"There are no newspapers, no radio, no internet and no access to telephone, so she has to rely on the people who come to visit her. It's overcrowded and it's horrific."

(Clockwise from top) Nguyen Tuong Van, Michelle Leslie, Renae Lawrence and Schapelle Corby.

Photo: Agencies

In recent years the Deane-Johns story has been all but forgotten, replaced by a spate of higher-profile drug arrests that have turned alleged drug traffickers into minor celebrities and shifted the spotlight away from another 141 Australians in overseas jails on drugs charges.

Holly Deane-Johns is a former heroin addict and petty criminal. Unlike Gold Coast beauty student Schapelle Corby, who this weekend notched up a year in prison, and Sydney model Michelle Leslie, she has no high-profile backers. She has received no saturation news coverage, and her family has been offered no lucrative media deals.

But Corby and Leslie — and others like them — should be watching her case with interest. Later this year Deane-Johns is expected to become the first young Australian woman — and only the fourth Australian — to return home under the 2002 Thai-Australian prisoner transfer treaty. If her transfer is seen as a success, it may be just the push Jakarta needs to sign off on a similar treaty with Australia and send Corby and Leslie home too.

The Deane-Johns story begins in Perth, and is the stuff of tragedy. Her heroin-addicted mother died from a drug overdose, prompting her father to dedicate his life to drug counselling. Locked in her own heroin ######, Deane-Johns spent six years in Western Australia's Bandyup Women's Prison.

By 2000, she was a small-time criminal with a big-time drug habit. She flew to Thailand on holidays, and soon fell foul of the country's high-profile drug war. In August 2000 she was arrested in a Bangkok post office, trying to mail a small parcel of heroin to Australia. Another 15 grams of heroin was found in her Bangkok apartment, while a swoop of a friend's home found 110 grams. The pair had been snared in a two-month surveillance operation by the Thai narcotics squad, sparked by a tip-off from the Australian Federal Police.

Deane-Johns spent three years in Thailand's notorious "Bangkok Hilton" (Klong Prem Prison), awaiting a sentence that would almost certainly be death by lethal injection. But a Thai judge looked kindly on her guilty plea and commuted the sentence to 31 years in jail. In July 2003, sweltering in Bangkok's oppressive humidity, Deane-Johns told reporters that all her Christmases had come at once.

"I'm happy because it gets me home eventually," she said. "It's a relief."

Since then, she has passed her days sewing silk flowers and learning Thai in Lard Yao Women's Prison. She sleeps on a straw mat in a cell that she shares with 30 other women. There are no walls — only bars — and the food is poor. Health care is reserved for those who can afford to pay.

Apart from regular visits from Haffenden and Australian consular officials, Deane-Johns has mostly gone it alone. She heard about the death of her father in much the same way she heard about the tsunami. She speaks fluent Thai, is a mentor to new inmates, and has beaten her drug addiction by sheer will. Haffenden believes jail has taught Deane-Johns the kind of discipline and self-respect lacking in other Australians behind bars on drugs charges. A lay teacher at the Thamkrabok Buddhist Monastery and drug detox centre north of Bangkok, Haffenden learnt of Deane-Johns through a family friend. Since then he has visited her more than 40 times. She has begun calling him Granddad.

"The young lady I first met five years ago was an ######," Haffenden recalls. "But she has emerged out of the experience of a Thai prison very well. Lots of the anger is gone and she's better for it. Had she got away with it, she would still be an ######."

Although the Holly Deane-Johns story has slipped off the front page, her face and those of other young Australians are never forgotten. Each day they stare out from the Foreign Prisoners Support Service's website. But the international service — spearheaded by former Laos prisoner Kay Danes — has become a comfort for parents whose children are in jail overseas. Danes, a Brisbane mother of three, and her husband Kerry spent 10 months in a Laos jail accused of sapphire smuggling in 2000. High-level government negotiations saw them released in October 2001. Since then the couple have devoted their time to people whose names never make it into ministerial briefs.

Among them is 24-year-old Melbourne man Nguyen Tuong Van — on death row in Singapore after being found guilty of trafficking 396 grams of heroin in 2002. Then there are Sydney teenagers Chris Vo, 15, and Rachel Ann Diaz, 17 — awaiting trial in Hong Kong accused of smuggling $1 million worth of heroin to Australia.

In Cambodia, 17-year-old Gordon Vuong is serving 13 years for drug trafficking after being caught at the airport with 2.1 kilograms of heroin strapped to his stomach. And in Indonesia, 20-year-old former Adelaide teacher Graham Clifford Payne has been in custody since August, when he was arrested in Medan with a pouch full of amphetamines.

"We're flooded with emails from mums with children in jails all over the world saying 'help me'," says Danes.

"There are Australian prisoners out there who just don't have the access to support and advice that others do. They are ostracised, and their families are ostracised. They don't even have people to write to them."

Tony Wheeler, founder of the Lonely Planet travel guides, says a recent crackdown on drug trafficking in Asia has caught many young Australians.

He says some are "serious dealers", while others are "no-hopers who are simply taking a huge and stupid risk".

Then there are "the party drugs type, who would be heading for a slap on the wrist if they were caught in Melbourne, Sydney or Ibiza and probably the same thing in Bali 12 months ago".

"Unfortunately the rules have suddenly changed and it's … go to jail, do not pass go."

Wheeler says his heart goes out to young Australians whose lives are devastated by one mistake, but he advises travellers to leave their laidback approach to recreational drug use at home.

"Stick to (party drugs) in places where the rules are cast in iron or the jails are not so bad," he says. "Don't think about it in Indonesia, where rules are fluid and the jails are lousy."

The director of Melbourne's Asian Law Centre, Associate Professor Tim Lindsey, says that the she'll-be-right-mate approach to drugs makes Australians prime suspects in Indonesia. But, he argues, it is wrong to suggest that Australians have been targetted.

In recent years drug abuse has soared in Indonesia, with the rate of addictions rising from 1 per cent of the population to 4 per cent — a figure that translates to nearly 10 million people. In Jakarta in April, there were 150 arrests. Of those, 30 were Australian citizens.

While Australians continue to use recreational drugs in holiday destinations, and authorities remain ######-bent on winning the war on drugs, Lindsey says little will change. Indeed he expects that the numbers will only rise as Indonesia's justice system improves and shakes off the legacy of former president Soeharto, who stripped the courts of much of their power.

"Australians have particular attitudes to certain drugs which are not held by other countries in the third world, so it's not a surprise that Australians are being caught in the huge crackdown," Lindsey says.

"There is a sense that Australians should be immune from their legal systems. It's an unconscious thing which comes out when people are arrested.

"That the Indonesian legal system has deep problems of corruption and low levels of competence is not true, though. Soeharto stripped and dumbed down the courts and that takes a long time to fix.

"But Indonesia is making progress. What's happening is that the Indonesian legal system is improving and it is now starting to catch people."

So far, no Indonesian court has sentenced an Australian prisoner to death. But NSW Council of Civil Liberties lawyer Kevin O'Rourke says it may only be a matter of time. With news that the Bali nine all face the firing squad, O'Rourke has stepped up his campaign to secure a prisoner transfer treaty between Indonesia and Australia. Thailand and Australia have had such an agreement since 2002, but negotiations over a similar treaty between Indonesia and France have delayed Jakarta's consideration of a draft treaty with Australia.

"We want a treaty and we want it fast," O'Rourke says. "But it is not a short process. With the best will in the world, that treaty might well be 18 months away

"The treaty recognises that these people have done something wrong and are serving a sentence but the humanitarian element is that they are able to serve the sentence closer to their families, and in a culture that they are familiar with."

It is uncertain whether such a treaty would apply to prisoners sentenced to death. But, says O'Rourke, we only need remember the 1986 execution of Kevin Barlow and Brian Chambers in Malaysia to imagine the effects that even one execution in Indonesia could have on the Australian psyche.

Every six weeks Brian Haffenden arrives at the Lard Yao prison with a toasted bacon and egg sandwich. He leaves with Holly Deane-John's wish-list of beauty products and make-up.

Although the prisoner repatriation scheme means Deane-Johns could be home by Christmas, this is not enough for Haffenden. He has written to the Thai King requesting a royal pardon, fearful that his clean young charge will be more vulnerable in a prison system rife with drugs than in the wider community. Although royal pardons are rare — usually given only on the King's birthday — Haffenden has the support of the Thamkrabok Monastery and the Buddhist faith.

"There is no better teacher in the enormous dangers of drugs that a reformed drug addict," Thamkrabok's abbott, Luangpaw Charoen, wrote to the King.

Haffenden hopes it might just work. But he says that whether Deane-Johns is freed or transferred to an Australian prison, she will return home with nothing except her own self-respect. It may well be the one thing she can share.

"She has had to stand on her own feet and take care of herself," Haffenden says. "It was rough to start but she became accustomed to it. And she does not want to walk down that path again."

--theage.com.au AU 2005-10-08

[snoophound]

"We want a treaty and we want it fast," O'Rourke says. "But it is not a short process. With the best will in the world, that treaty might well be 18 months away

"The treaty recognises that these people have done something wrong and are serving a sentence but the humanitarian element is that they are able to serve the sentence closer to their families, and in a culture that they are familiar with."

It is uncertain whether such a treaty would apply to prisoners sentenced to death. But, says O'Rourke, we only need remember the 1986 execution of Kevin Barlow and Brian Chambers in Malaysia to imagine the effects that even one execution in Indonesia could have on the Australian psyche.

So the overburdened aus taxpayer gets to fork out the 200k cost per year for these morons.

I think if the perps have a fair trial and are found guilty,the aus public have had enough.

I think the courts in these countries may need to pay more attention to detail and mitigating circumstances ie:some of the bali nine are plainly patsys.

Theirs been enough publicity now about the laws in these countries and the signs when you enter Bangkok and Denpasar are frankly disconcerting.

I wonder what kind of ignoramus could ignore them.

[britmaveric]

I wonder what kind of ignoramus could ignore them.

The type that thinks he/she will never get nicked.

[perijon]

Hope ya make it Holly!

[Kerryd]

I wonder what kind of ignoramus could ignore them.

The type that thinks he/she will never get nicked.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like the article says, many people bring a lax attitude about drugs with them, as a result of policies in their home country. For some reason, these morons figure if it's OK to do at home, it should be OK elsewhere.

Like that numpty awhile ago, caught with 50+ cartons of ciggies at customs, and then declares he didn't know you couldn't smuggle cigarettes into Thailand (based on him having done it previously without getting caught).

It was pointed out a few years ago that many of today's judges (in the west), were students during the late 60's - early 70's, the era of free love and drugs. Many of them still harbour lenient attitudes towards drug use which is reflected in the sentencing they (sometimes) hand down to the ocassional person that actually gets convicted.

In Canada, we have pushers, with over 2 dozen previous arrests for trafficing, being let off with warnings because they were only caught with a small amount of drugs (we are talking crack and herion here). In some cases, the pushers are back on the street dealing before the arresting officer can get the arrest report finished !

A guy in my community got busted transporting 80 kilos of pot, destined for sale in a large city. Cops confiscated the pot and let him off with a "Promise To Appear" in court at a later date.

A year later, police raided a number of residences in the same community. That same guy was busted, again, for possesion with intent to traffic. He was let go, again, with a "Promise to Appear".

Some stats, put out a few years ago in Vancouver, noted that on average, 1 in 3 people caught for trafficing (i.e. actually caught selling) got jail time. 1 in 6 people caught in possession got jail time and less than 1 in 10 people caught growing pot ever go to jail.

The reactions of some people when they get busted in places like Thailand or Malaysia is incredible. Despite being caught obviously smuggling large quantities of obviously illegal drugs, they act like it's no big deal, and rant on about being singled out and being "made an example" blah blah blah. Poor me. How was I to know that smuggling 2 kilos of pure herion (up me @ss) was illegal ?

If it was legal, then why were you hiding up your butt (or in your gut, ect) ?

Pathetic.

[fox]

The laws in Thailand is very lenient.

In Malaysia and Singapore, the punishment for drugs smuggling (if convicted) carries the " mandatory " death penalty. No way out, so to speak.

[Ijustwannateach]

It's hard to criticise addicts who become pushers (as much as I'd like to) when their own addiction criminalises them (for possession) anyway. We need a better way of dealing with addicts than this.

"Steven"

[richard10365]

I can't say I feel sorry for them. Most likely they didn't get hooked on drugs in this country so why should they try to get people in this country hooked on drugs.

Their actions are an attack on Thailand and they should be treated as enemies of the state. I feel the same way as the people bringing drugs in the United States.

Many people blame drugs and thugs as part of the problem in the south of Thailand. If this is true, then these people are contributing to the deaths in the south of Thailand.

If they want to commit a crime with a light punishment then perhaps they should stay in their country and sell their crap.

If they come to Thailand they should be aware they take the chance of being in a horrible prision or being executed if caught.

If they want to use the foreigers in Thai prisions as the pulpit for their cause, perhaps they should change their message and direct it to the people of their own country on how dealing drugs in Thailand one time can ruin a life.

[Nignoy]

I can't say I feel sorry for them. Most likely they didn't get hooked on drugs in this country so why should they try to get people in this country hooked on drugs.

Their actions are an attack on Thailand and they should be treated as enemies of the state. I feel the same way as the people bringing drugs in the United States.

Many people blame drugs and thugs as part of the problem in the south of Thailand. If this is true, then these people are contributing to the deaths in the south of Thailand.

If they want to commit a crime with a light punishment then perhaps they should stay in their country and sell their crap.

If they come to Thailand they should be aware they take the chance of being in a horrible prision or being executed if caught.

If they want to use the foreigers in Thai prisions as the pulpit for their cause, perhaps they should change their message and direct it to the people of their own country on how dealing drugs in Thailand one time can ruin a life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Call me old fashioned but You Does the crime you does the time!! , no matter where you are, as a 14 year old was found guilty of trespassing (we broke the lock off a barn to sleep in during the 1957 TT on the isle of Man)was sentenced to 6 strokes of the birch, no appeals, no parents, I have still got the scars!! Barbaric punishment ?? Yes , but I broke the law!! nignoy

[Abandon]

Despite being caught obviously smuggling large quantities of obviously illegal drugs, they act like it's no big deal, and rant on about being singled out and being "made an example" blah blah blah. Poor me. How was I to know that smuggling 2 kilos of pure herion (up me @ss) was illegal ?

If it was legal, then why were you hiding up your butt (or in your gut, ect) ?

Pathetic.

Utter rubbish. I know quite a few of the prisoners in Bang Kwang personally and none of them reflect the above statement. In fact it is the typical rant and bleet of an uneducated onlooker

[The Dan Sai Kid]

It's not a recreational drug she was smuggling anyway - it was heroin. That stuff cases so much misery and heartbreak. Whatever anyones views on drugs there is no denying that heroin wrecks lives.

Anyone that makes a living out of human misery is scum. Simple as that.

[Lusifer]

It's not a recreational drug she was smuggling anyway - it was heroin.  That stuff cases so much misery and heartbreak.  Whatever anyones views on drugs there is no denying that heroin wrecks lives. 

Anyone that makes a living out of human misery is scum.  Simple as that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

CON is A CON deserve the sentence according one countries LAW.

Next time(If get out) do the "thing in your own country so you will get minor Do time,,, I.E Sweden, heard that they have TV and table tennis in they mingling area... Why those Dope addict looser's have to come to Thailand and then when convicted start to complane,,,,Or tru Singapore, as mentioned above,, there you dont have to spend so long behind the bars....

Vise advice,, do dope, stay home....

[Neeranam]

I feel sorry for her, but she deserves her sentence.

Now waiting for the few who said the guy with 50 E-pills deserved 7 years to post what an idiot she was and they have no sympathy.

Maybe because she is a young good looking woman, they will think differently.

What a shame she doen't have internet use. She is in prison for ****'s sake.

I doubt very much if she would give a toss about the tsunami.

Edited October 10, 2005 by Neeranam

[Neeranam]

It's not a recreational drug she was smuggling anyway - it was heroin. That stuff cases so much misery and heartbreak. Whatever anyones views on drugs there is no denying that heroin wrecks lives.

Anyone that makes a living out of human misery is scum. Simple as that.

Without wanting to start a debate about whether illegal drugs are worse than legal ones, I have to say that the only reason heroin causes so much misery is because it is illegal. If it were legal, do you think this woman would have come to Thailand?- of course she wouldn't have.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The prisoner exchange program between Thailand and Australia reqires that five years prison already has been served as a pre condition to the exchange taking place.

[Hua njai]

I really do not think that drug users/addicts etc set out to start people off on drugs (This is a bit of a myth), much as pubs don't set out to make people become alcoholics. I work with people with drug and alcohol addiction in the NHS, UK and have many years (15) of experience with these people. I don't like what they do, and hate the way it turns their personality. Saddest of all is watching someone 'clean' start a drug habit. But I have never seen or heard drugs sold or given to someone by force.

I know people on this forum have set ideas and strong feelings on this matter, but people usually start a drugs habit in much the same way people start an alcohol habit....at a party, with a group of friends etc, then it grows, sadly and rapidly out of control. I really dislike it when I read that druggies are worse than murderers or rapists. If this is the case, then publicans in the UK (or anywhere) perhaps can also be classed as such. No, of course they're not...they sell a product that people choose to buy or not, for various reasons (peer pressure, experimentation, weakness of character, whatever) and some become hopeless alcoholics and some don't. Heroin and crack are more addictive, yes, but similarly devestating to the person whose life becomes addicted, and of those around them. That is tragic, but we don't say that publicans are worse than murderers or rapists, do we? And that's because we are all victims of government censorship. We actually believe that drugs are all BAD and that alcohol is OK because we have heard it enough times on the news, from our parents etc.

In fact, they are all substances which allow a person to become chemically adjusted for a short time, and that's that. Difference is, one's legal, and the others aren't. And we know this, so should not be surprised if we get a sentence of some kind if found to be involved with the illicit substances.

Imagine if we (for reasons only explainable by madness) went to live in an alcohol-free country (Muslim states for example), but because we're Western, see no problem with having a drink. Then we get caught, slung in jail there for 50 years or sentenced to death, and in the meantime get treated with torture and the threat of violence or death everyday of that sentence. Fair? We know the answer to that one, but the residents of that country would call us 'scum, worse than murderers or rapists'. That would be ridiculous in our Western eyes, yet people here seem to think it's ok for people whose chemical of choice is different to the legal one (alcohol) to be thought of in those terms. I know there are some evil drugsters out there, as in any sub-section of society and I am certainly not trying to minimise the drug issue.

I agree that anyone committing a crime in a foreign country has to be bound by that country's law, but there is such a thing as humanity. People know the laws when they go there, and the warnings are readily on display. Only someone stupid/greedy for money would commit those crimes there, but, I still believe ALL people deserve to be treated humanely: medical treatment should be available, decent and adequate food, clean water to drink and wash with etc. People here keep saying 'if you can't do the time, don't do the crime'. For heavens sake, the time bit isn't the main issue for prisoners at Bang Kwang etc...it's how they are treated during that time. Torture should be illegal, and people issuing torture should be dealt with in extreme. People who terrorise these captives who are so malnourished and diseased that they couldn't fight back with any conviction if they tried...THEY should be treated like murderers and rapists IMHO.

I know I will be shot down for saying this, but I feel strongly about humanitarian issues. It would be nice if anyone responding to this doesn't just attack me...go for the discussional, yeah?

Regards

[snoophound]

Wow

and what happens when they get home?.

Do they have to serve the full sentence or are they entitled to the usual remissions??

I would have thought five years in a thai prison vs the oz holiday camps would be like a 20 year sentence.

The prisoner exchange program between Thailand and Australia reqires that five years prison already has been served as a pre condition to the exchange taking place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Smokin Joe]

Without wanting to start a debate about whether illegal drugs are worse than legal ones, I have to say that the only reason heroin causes so much misery is because it is illegal....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

&lt;deleted&gt; drug are you taking that makes you make a statement like that.

[StateSix]

I really do not think that drug users/addicts etc set out to start people off on drugs (This is a bit of a myth), much as pubs don't set out to make people become alcoholics. I work with people with drug and alcohol addiction in the NHS, UK and have many years (15) of experience with these people. I don't like what they do, and hate the way it turns their personality. Saddest of all is watching someone 'clean' start a drug habit. But I have never seen or heard drugs sold or given to someone by force.

I know people on this forum have set ideas and strong feelings on this matter, but people usually start a drugs habit in much the same way people start an alcohol habit....at a party, with a group of friends etc, then it grows, sadly and rapidly out of control. I really dislike it when I read that druggies are worse than murderers or rapists. If this is the case, then publicans in the UK (or anywhere) perhaps can also be classed as such. No, of course they're not...they sell a product that people choose to buy or not, for various reasons (peer pressure, experimentation, weakness of character, whatever)  and some become hopeless alcoholics and some don't. Heroin and crack are more addictive, yes, but similarly devestating to the person whose life becomes addicted, and of those around them. That is tragic, but we don't say that publicans are worse than murderers or rapists, do we? And that's because we are all victims of government censorship. We actually believe that drugs are all BAD and that alcohol is OK because we have heard it enough times on the news, from our parents etc.

In fact, they are all substances which allow a person to become chemically adjusted for a short time, and that's that. Difference is, one's legal, and the others aren't. And we know this, so should not be surprised if we get a sentence of some kind if found to be involved with the illicit substances. 

Imagine if we (for reasons only explainable by madness) went to live in an alcohol-free country (Muslim states for example), but because we're Western, see no problem with having a drink. Then we get caught, slung in jail there for 50 years or sentenced to death, and in the meantime get treated with torture and the threat of violence or death everyday of that sentence. Fair? We know the answer to that one, but the residents of that country would call us 'scum, worse than murderers or rapists'. That would be ridiculous in our Western eyes, yet people here seem to think it's ok for people whose chemical of choice is different to the legal one (alcohol)  to be thought of in those terms. I know there are some evil drugsters out there, as in any sub-section of society and I am certainly not trying to minimise the drug issue.

I agree that anyone committing a crime in a foreign country has to be bound by that country's law, but there is such a thing as humanity. People know the laws when they go there, and the warnings are readily on display. Only someone stupid/greedy for money would commit those crimes there, but, I still believe ALL people deserve to be treated humanely: medical treatment should be available, decent and adequate food, clean water to drink and wash with etc. People here keep saying 'if you can't do the time, don't do the crime'. For heavens sake, the time bit isn't the main issue for prisoners at Bang Kwang etc...it's how they are treated during that time. Torture should be illegal, and people issuing torture should be dealt with in extreme. People who terrorise these captives who are so malnourished and diseased that they couldn't fight back with any conviction if they tried...THEY should be treated like murderers and rapists IMHO.

I know I will be shot down for saying this, but I feel strongly about humanitarian issues. It would be nice if anyone responding to this doesn't just attack me...go for the discussional, yeah?

Regards 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent post Hua njai! Of course people dont become drug addicts out of choice, there is always some reason they start - peer pressure, self esteem, a way to escape the problems of their life etc. Sure they make the initial decision to start using, but by the time they realise that they are addicted it is usually too late. Once addicted society has the moral obligation to help these people break their addiction and become someone who makes a positive contribution to society. I too have worked with heroin and crack addicts and seen them cry when they are sober and realise that there life is going down the toilet. You do what you can to help them but my options were always limited to referring to drug outreach workers and hoping the courts try to help by giving drug referral orders. Most of the time they end up straight back on the gear and it is both sad and frustrating.

I also agree that everyone, including convicted offenders no matter how heinous the crime, deserve to be treated humanely. I firmly believe in doing the time if you've done the crime, but that does not mean that you should just be locked in a 10ft square cell with only bread and water. You should be treated fairly and not abused. We are supposed to be a civilised society after all.

[StateSix]

It's not a recreational drug she was smuggling anyway - it was heroin. That stuff cases so much misery and heartbreak. Whatever anyones views on drugs there is no denying that heroin wrecks lives.

Anyone that makes a living out of human misery is scum. Simple as that.

Without wanting to start a debate about whether illegal drugs are worse than legal ones, I have to say that the only reason heroin causes so much misery is because it is illegal. If it were legal, do you think this woman would have come to Thailand?- of course she wouldn't have.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem with heroin is, at first, it is extremely good. It is an extremely powerful painkiller and acts in the same way as endorphines which are the bodys natural pain killers. The effects are described as like being wrapped in cotton mill and extreme contentment. It makes the user feel as though all their problems and worries have drifted away. This leads to a kind of psychological addiction initially. If someone continues to use they can become physically addicted, though this is slightly rarer than most people would have you believe. Once addicted it is fairly hard to find effective treatment to get clean. I fail to see how merely legalising the drug would help with any of this. The problem is lack of effective education and treatment.

[Abandon]

Wow

and what happens when they get home?.

Do they have to serve the full sentence or are they entitled to the usual remissions??

I would have thought five years in a thai prison vs the oz holiday camps would be like a 20 year sentence.

The prisoner exchange program between Thailand and Australia reqires that five years prison already has been served as a pre condition to the exchange taking place.

I believe that's 8 years there for lifers (40 + years) Doc. Most western countries have this agreement in place. Upon return the convicts are supposed to serve at least half their remaining sentance. However, only Britain insists on this, all other countries will re-sentance after a few months according to their own penal yardsticks; this effectively means release. Most prisoners do not want to go back because conditions are often worse in high security prisons in the West than Thailand where bad food, overcrowding, and boredom are the main complaints. Thai prison leaves the prisoners with a lot of free time (Thai's are generally forced to labour), and is safe from violence from other inmates or guards. Hence no one agrees to the transfer until they have guarnetees of release once back at their home country.

[sriracha john]

UPDATE

New push to transfer Australian prisoner

Australian Justice Minister David Johnston will take the unusual step of appealing to Australian national Labor Party MPs to pressure fellow party members in West Australia to overturn a state decision that has left a Perth woman stuck in a Thai prison. The move follows the refusal of West Australia's (WA) Correctional Services Minister Margaret Quirk to allow convicted heroin trafficker Holly Deane-Johns to return to Perth to serve out her sentence under a prisoner transfer deal. Thailand sentenced Deane-Johns to 31 years jail in 2003 for trying to send 10.4 grammes of heroin back to Australia. She had previously served a six-year jail term for drug offences in WA. Canberra and Bangkok have a longstanding prisoner transfer arrangement, but the WA Government needs to agree to take the prisoner.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=119431

==============================

Related thread here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=83674&hl=

[JR Texas]

UPDATE

New push to transfer Australian prisoner

Australian Justice Minister David Johnston will take the unusual step of appealing to Australian national Labor Party MPs to pressure fellow party members in West Australia to overturn a state decision that has left a Perth woman stuck in a Thai prison. The move follows the refusal of West Australia's (WA) Correctional Services Minister Margaret Quirk to allow convicted heroin trafficker Holly Deane-Johns to return to Perth to serve out her sentence under a prisoner transfer deal. Thailand sentenced Deane-Johns to 31 years jail in 2003 for trying to send 10.4 grammes of heroin back to Australia. She had previously served a six-year jail term for drug offences in WA. Canberra and Bangkok have a longstanding prisoner transfer arrangement, but the WA Government needs to agree to take the prisoner.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=119431

==============================

Related thread here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=83674&hl=

JR Texas: The Illegal Drug War (started by Nixon) has utterly failed and created far too many problems and too much pain to count. The War was misguided from the start and set in motion by Legal Drug Addicts. Legal drugs cost society far more than illegal drugs. We are not using reason to reach a solution to this worldwide challenge.......only emotion guided my misinformation.

[Steely Dan]

Without wanting to start a debate about whether illegal drugs are worse than legal ones, I have to say that the only reason heroin causes so much misery is because it is illegal....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

&lt;deleted&gt; drug are you taking that makes you make a statement like that.

Actually pure heroin of a known dose can be taken by a user for decades without ruining their health. Illegal heroin contains all sorts of impurities and the strength is not known to the user, this is all down to the financial climate caused by prohibition. The Economist once published a most persuasive well researched case for the legalisation and regulation of all drugs, and they are hardly what you would call left wing radicals.

[fruittbatt]

Great first post, Hua Njai! I hope we will hear much more of your sane, compassionate views.

As a person from a heavily addicted family (alcohol and heroin) spanning two generations, I can only agree completely with your social analysis of how addiction occurs. There may also be genetic pre-disposition to addiction. Research continues to debate that point.

I agree with Neeranam and Steely Dan, that legalisation will help to stop desperate mules/addicts trafficking, even though legalisation will never stop people's craving for escape through alcohol, opioids, amphetamines, consumerism, sex-tourism or whatever other predilections people depend on.

I really do not think that drug users/addicts etc set out to start people off on drugs (This is a bit of a myth), much as pubs don't set out to make people become alcoholics. I work with people with drug and alcohol addiction in the NHS, UK and have many years (15) of experience with these people. I don't like what they do, and hate the way it turns their personality. Saddest of all is watching someone 'clean' start a drug habit. But I have never seen or heard drugs sold or given to someone by force.

I know people on this forum have set ideas and strong feelings on this matter, but people usually start a drugs habit in much the same way people start an alcohol habit....at a party, with a group of friends etc, then it grows, sadly and rapidly out of control. I really dislike it when I read that druggies are worse than murderers or rapists. If this is the case, then publicans in the UK (or anywhere) perhaps can also be classed as such. No, of course they're not...they sell a product that people choose to buy or not, for various reasons (peer pressure, experimentation, weakness of character, whatever) and some become hopeless alcoholics and some don't. Heroin and crack are more addictive, yes, but similarly devestating to the person whose life becomes addicted, and of those around them. That is tragic, but we don't say that publicans are worse than murderers or rapists, do we? And that's because we are all victims of government censorship. We actually believe that drugs are all BAD and that alcohol is OK because we have heard it enough times on the news, from our parents etc.

In fact, they are all substances which allow a person to become chemically adjusted for a short time, and that's that. Difference is, one's legal, and the others aren't. And we know this, so should not be surprised if we get a sentence of some kind if found to be involved with the illicit substances.

Imagine if we (for reasons only explainable by madness) went to live in an alcohol-free country (Muslim states for example), but because we're Western, see no problem with having a drink. Then we get caught, slung in jail there for 50 years or sentenced to death, and in the meantime get treated with torture and the threat of violence or death everyday of that sentence. Fair? We know the answer to that one, but the residents of that country would call us 'scum, worse than murderers or rapists'. That would be ridiculous in our Western eyes, yet people here seem to think it's ok for people whose chemical of choice is different to the legal one (alcohol) to be thought of in those terms. I know there are some evil drugsters out there, as in any sub-section of society and I am certainly not trying to minimise the drug issue.

I agree that anyone committing a crime in a foreign country has to be bound by that country's law, but there is such a thing as humanity. People know the laws when they go there, and the warnings are readily on display. Only someone stupid/greedy for money would commit those crimes there, but, I still believe ALL people deserve to be treated humanely: medical treatment should be available, decent and adequate food, clean water to drink and wash with etc. People here keep saying 'if you can't do the time, don't do the crime'. For heavens sake, the time bit isn't the main issue for prisoners at Bang Kwang etc...it's how they are treated during that time. Torture should be illegal, and people issuing torture should be dealt with in extreme. People who terrorise these captives who are so malnourished and diseased that they couldn't fight back with any conviction if they tried...THEY should be treated like murderers and rapists IMHO.

I know I will be shot down for saying this, but I feel strongly about humanitarian issues. It would be nice if anyone responding to this doesn't just attack me...go for the discussional, yeah?

Regards

[sgunn65]

As a former drug addict and a current drug worker (15 years experience) I think I can safetly say, that for every 100 addicts there are a 100 reasons they became addicts but very few reasons why they remain addicts.

A former poster thought that the only reason heroin was bad was that it was illegal. It's not.

Being illegal criminalises the user and makes some people incredibly rich. Being illegal also means that the drug is often adulterated and, therefore, increases health risks.

What is so bad about Heroin is what it does to the person. Heroin is an extremely jealous god. Thou shalt have no other god but me. The addict will debase themselves in ways you cannot imagine to feed their habit, they will take enormous risks and alienate all those around them. This then feeds their, already, low self esteem. And so the vicious circle continues. I hate myself so I take Heroin to ease the pain; Being addicted to Heroin makes me hate myself and what I do to get the money to take Heroin makes me hate myself more.

However in all my years as an addict I never met anyone who did not know the consequences of being caught smuggling abroad (we all watched Midnight Express etc). We also knew the consequences of our criminality in the Uk. It was just about what you were prepared to do.

So are drug addict smugglers worse than murderers? No. The people who set them up to do it are though, but they are so protected by their vast wealth that they rarely, of ever, get caught.

Should drug smugglers get harsh sentences and serve them in bad jails? Sadly I would have to say yes. If the country they are caught in has those rules and do not offer rehabilitation services THEN DON'T TRY TO SMUGGLE IN THOSE COUNTRIES!!!!! Stay at home and explore the options for getting well.

[bobbin]

The lack of compassion evidenced by many posters(usually the same ones) no longer surprises me, but continues to sadden me. They may deny it but they are people who find it easy to hate "the other". Every religion advises compassion because so many need to hear the message. They are also hypocrites unless they are following a lifestyle of abstaining from ALL intoxicants and stimulants.

As noted by several posters, the only SANE way to deal with the problems created by over-legislating human behavior with regard to mood-altering substances is education. Education that points out the pitfalls of addictive substances.

The current world climate re "drug policy" is directed and financed by the United States of America. They have it wrong. Anyone who makes the slightest effort to research the history of the "Drug War" will learn that initially it was political pork-bellying to absorb the law-enforment officers displaced by the end of Alcohol prohibition. Another failed policy. As one poster noted above, many of you alcohol drinkers could and would fall afoul of the laws in muslim countries. Many posters have worked and still work in these countries. The production of home-brewed alcohol is one reaction to these laws. Actual production of an "prohibited" intoxicant. If shared with friends, add trafficking to the list.

The "haters" have absorbed the propaganda and merely regurgitate it when the opportunity presents itself. They have never questioned.

I wish I liked to type as much aas I like to talk for I surely could go on at length. When given the opportunity I have often engaged the type of poster i decry. I point out the social and financial costs of pursueing a policy that will inevitably fail in the end. Often they are surprised to find their outlook has broadened.

My hope is that all foreign prisoners have the chance to return to their countries, where one day they will have the chance to recover from an all-to-human mistake.

[Ping]

The lack of compassion evidenced by many posters(usually the same ones) no longer surprises me, but continues to sadden me. They may deny it but they are people who find it easy to hate "the other". Every religion advises compassion because so many need to hear the message. They are also hypocrites unless they are following a lifestyle of abstaining from ALL intoxicants and stimulants.

As noted by several posters, the only SANE way to deal with the problems created by over-legislating human behavior with regard to mood-altering substances is education. Education that points out the pitfalls of addictive substances.

The current world climate re "drug policy" is directed and financed by the United States of America. They have it wrong. Anyone who makes the slightest effort to research the history of the "Drug War" will learn that initially it was political pork-bellying to absorb the law-enforment officers displaced by the end of Alcohol prohibition. Another failed policy. As one poster noted above, many of you alcohol drinkers could and would fall afoul of the laws in muslim countries. Many posters have worked and still work in these countries. The production of home-brewed alcohol is one reaction to these laws. Actual production of an "prohibited" intoxicant. If shared with friends, add trafficking to the list.

The "haters" have absorbed the propaganda and merely regurgitate it when the opportunity presents itself. They have never questioned.

I wish I liked to type as much aas I like to talk for I surely could go on at length. When given the opportunity I have often engaged the type of poster i decry. I point out the social and financial costs of pursueing a policy that will inevitably fail in the end. Often they are surprised to find their outlook has broadened.

My hope is that all foreign prisoners have the chance to return to their countries, where one day they will have the chance to recover from an all-to-human mistake.

Bobbin - what about some compassion for the people who would have ultimately ended-up buying these drugs (after having been cut with Gawd knows what)? Traffikers are in the same league as Killers - they intentionally set out on a course of action that they know can be fatal. Hence the penalties. And if they are not paying for their stash by pushing drugs themselves, they are committing armed holdups or breaking into other people's houses causing distress and misery to society. Yet the same old arguments are trotted-out about the evils of alcohol and tobacco. I, for one, do not rob people to pay for my next glass of beer and I have a fair idea that if I buy a mate a beer, it is unlikely he is going to go into convulsions and die of an overdose. It is a fallacious argument (illegal drugs v alcohol, for example) just the same as saying that I should be allowed to smoke in a crowded room because the crowd all drive cars with the exhaust pollution they create. And yes, you are right - I have no pity for these despicable drug traffiking animals.

[bobbin]

The lack of compassion evidenced by many posters(usually the same ones) no longer surprises me, but continues to sadden me. They may deny it but they are people who find it easy to hate "the other". Every religion advises compassion because so many need to hear the message. They are also hypocrites unless they are following a lifestyle of abstaining from ALL intoxicants and stimulants.

As noted by several posters, the only SANE way to deal with the problems created by over-legislating human behavior with regard to mood-altering substances is education. Education that points out the pitfalls of addictive substances.

The current world climate re "drug policy" is directed and financed by the United States of America. They have it wrong. Anyone who makes the slightest effort to research the history of the "Drug War" will learn that initially it was political pork-bellying to absorb the law-enforment officers displaced by the end of Alcohol prohibition. Another failed policy. As one poster noted above, many of you alcohol drinkers could and would fall afoul of the laws in muslim countries. Many posters have worked and still work in these countries. The production of home-brewed alcohol is one reaction to these laws. Actual production of an "prohibited" intoxicant. If shared with friends, add trafficking to the list.

The "haters" have absorbed the propaganda and merely regurgitate it when the opportunity presents itself. They have never questioned.

I wish I liked to type as much aas I like to talk for I surely could go on at length. When given the opportunity I have often engaged the type of poster i decry. I point out the social and financial costs of pursueing a policy that will inevitably fail in the end. Often they are surprised to find their outlook has broadened.

My hope is that all foreign prisoners have the chance to return to their countries, where one day they will have the chance to recover from an all-to-human mistake.

Bobbin - what about some compassion for the people who would have ultimately ended-up buying these drugs (after having been cut with Gawd knows what)? Traffikers are in the same league as Killers - they intentionally set out on a course of action that they know can be fatal. Hence the penalties. And if they are not paying for their stash by pushing drugs themselves, they are committing armed holdups or breaking into other people's houses causing distress and misery to society. Yet the same old arguments are trotted-out about the evils of alcohol and tobacco. I, for one, do not rob people to pay for my next glass of beer and I have a fair idea that if I buy a mate a beer, it is unlikely he is going to go into convulsions and die of an overdose. It is a fallacious argument (illegal drugs v alcohol, for example) just the same as saying that I should be allowed to smoke in a crowded room because the crowd all drive cars with the exhaust pollution they create. And yes, you are right - I have no pity for these despicable drug traffiking animals.

This is almost classic "regurgitated propaganda". You have not "responded" at all, though you may think you have.

[KireB]

Without wanting to start a debate about whether illegal drugs are worse than legal ones, I have to say that the only reason heroin causes so much misery is because it is illegal....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

&lt;deleted&gt; drug are you taking that makes you make a statement like that.

I actually agree with Neeraman here.

Read Ben Elton's book High Society or know a little bit about how the Netherlands take care of these 'problems' for example and you will understand that criminalizing drugs creates criminals and not the drugs themselves.

Let me ask you a simple question, as you seem to be an expert: what's worse MDMA or prozac, cocaine or cafeine, heroin or nicotine, alcohol or THC? Some of them are legal and the others not!

Edited June 14, 2007 by KireB