Can Any Teacher Please Help! Racism In Schools.

[GentlemanJim]

Hi

I am not a Teacher but need to canvass opinion from you folks about a 'situation' that unfolded today.

My daughter has just started the first grade of school. She is 3 yrs 8 mths and has a place at what is reputed to be the best school in our large town. Everything seems good. My daughter speaks as much Thai and English as any other child her age would do in their own language. I was having a good chat to her tonight over dinner and she suddenly just blurted out the word falang. Now whilst I know that all Thais use the word and often hear Thai kids point at me in the supermarket and say 'falang', I was a little taken back. It's not a word anyone in our family uses.

I asked her who taught her that word and she said that is her name. I asked who calls her that name, her friends at school? (bad question technique I admit as it was leading), and she said no, Khun Kru (teacher), I said what does she call you and she said 'Falang Smith" (I am replacing Smith for our real surname). Maybe I am being over sensitive but this has me a little upset. Clearly I need to find out what has been said and not react to what I think has been said, but I really have a problem with it. My wife knows I am potentially on the war path and is not looking forward to Monday.. My questions to you guys are is this normal? Is it normal for a child who is half Thai half English to be called Falang Surname by their Thai teacher? I would expect the young children to maybe use it but not the teacher.

My personal belief is that racism in Thailand is endemic and they use a very unsavoury word as a nickname for Indians, Arabs and Muslims in general. Whilst my wife says there is nothing to it, I asked her how she would have felt being constantly referred to as foreigner when we lived in London, or if her kids were labeled 'foreigner' by their teachers and peer group. She got my point quickly, I will give her, her dues. I was young when the UK was very racist, but these days in main stream society much of that has gone now. I do not want my daughter growing up and being taught to be racist, and starting at 3 yrs 8 mths is a bit much for me. If the teacher calls her this name then so will all the kids in the class obviously.

Sorry if you feel I am being over sensitive but this is important to me. My wife tried to placate me and say that being called falang was 'elevating' her social status!!! I called bulls**t and she gave up. I told her even if that were the case, which it isn't, if my daughter was a Princess, I would still expect her teachers and peers to call her by her first name. Either elevating or degrading someones status , especially in this case a less than 4 year old child at school is wrong.

I would be immensely grateful for your thoughts on the matter. I am not going to go in heavy handed at any stage, particularly on the 'over dinner' conversation with a 3-4 year old. I am incredibly polite but can be very firm and forceful if required. I have ranted on enough. For those that can offer me some guidance I thank you in advance for your time.

Edited May 28, 2011 by GentlemanJim

[IMA_FARANG]

I understand what you're saying...but to be honest I think you're being too sensitive. Falang or Farang in Thailand simply means for many Thais "a European-looking foriegner" or even just "foriegner". Even my Thai wife sometimes tells me,"You'll never understand Thailand, you are Farang" In the same way I refer to her as "Granny". (She has three grown children and a granddaughter.)

My Thai wife's first husband had some Burmese and Indian ancestry in him. My wife's children are therefore "dark skinned" compared to other Thais. It is common for Thais that don't know them to refer to them as Dam or Dam Dam when talking to another lighter skin Thai.

In the U.K. have you ever called a Welshman "Taffy" or refered to a Scot as "Jock"? If so did you intend that as a "racist" remark. I seriously doubt you did intend that discription as "racist".

I was once held over in London because of a mechanical problem with my flight... I was on the way from the U.S. to Saudi Arabia...I'm originally an "American"...and I was then working in Saudi Arabia. So while the plane was being repaired, the airline put us up overnight in a bed and breakfast not far from Heathrow. In the morning when I came down for breakfast the plate of Bacon and Eggs I was served wasn't cooked the way I wanted it. I stopped a passing waiter and politely asked him to please have the Bacon cooked a little more, as I thought it was still not done...I don't like eating Bacon not cooked completely because I think it is unhealthy to do that. Hearing my American accent he took the plate and yelled back to the kitchen, "Burn the b---dy Bacon for the Yank".

I guess I could have thought of that as an insult...but at the time I just thought it was funny.

P.S. By the way the reason I refered to myself as an "American" not as an American (no quotes) is that I once worked in Puerto Rico. I called myself an American and was told by a Puerto Rican that I shouldn't call myself an American. He said,"Isn't Puerto Rico an island in the Americas too? I was born in Puerto Rico...but you don't call me an American. Here in Puerto Rico we refer to you as a "Norte Americano"...a north American not just as a American."

After I thought about it for a while, I saw his point.

Edited May 28, 2011 by IMA_FARANG

[skybluestu]

There is one teacher at the school where I work who I have heard call at least one student 'farang' a number of times. The kid himself doesn't seem to mind and it always gets a laugh from the other students but I don't like it myself. None of the other teachers do though and the teacher who does has been teaching for many years so is probably stuck in his ways and sees nothing wrong with it. We will ALWAYS be called farang here whether we like it or not but I do feel it's unnecessary in a classroom with children.

As I'm sure you know already, racism is rife in Thailand from classrooms in schools right up to big businesses in Bangkok. I witness it every single day and, I'm sorry to say, I've almost come to accept it now although I won't allow any name calling based on the colour of skin in my classes and I've tried to explain to the students why not but it starts at such an early age here my words just fall on deaf ears. My P6 students are at the age where they are starting to be attracted to (usually) the opposite sex and I will sometimes tease them a bit if I see that a boy obviously likes a girl, or vice versa, but many times they deny it because the boy/girl in question has dark skin...'No teacher, I don't like her, she has black skin'....is something I've heard far too many times. When there are any events that require students to represent the school it is usually the light-skinned ones that are chosen. When pictures of teachers are taken for the school magazine they are photoshopped so everyone is lighter before being published. I was single when I first started to teach but when they found out I had a girlfriend (now wife) the first question I was always asked was 'Is she black or white?'. Nothing about her age, name, fat/thin, tall/short, beautiful/ugly etc.

They are just a few examples but one of the worst I've experienced was a few weeks ago while out walking my baby daughter in her pushchair. She is almost 1yr old and is always called 'farang noi' because she has very light skin with strong western features and we saw a Thai lady with a baby (grandaughter maybe as she was quite old) not much older than mine and she basically said that my daughter was beautiful because she had light skin but her grandaughter wasn't beautiful as she was ugly! She said it so matter-of-fact but I was shocked that she was claiming that this beautiful baby she was caring for wasn't beautiful because her skin was dark!!!

So I can understand you being annoyed/angry and perhaps it will stop if you speak to the teacher in question but it's Thai society as a whole who needs to stop and I doubt that will ever happen

[Scott]

Not much you can do about it. Racism and putting people in a social structure is important in Thailand. It starts early. The important thing is to not reinforce racism at home.

You cannot control the entire society, but you can control how your child is taught to treat others.

[tamsom]

Dear GentlemanJim,

I completely agree with you. That word is never tolerated in our house. If I am ever called that name, I call the person a similar name, and it works! Just because everyone uses it does not make it right. Racists are people who view/make assumptions on the basis of the persons genetic spacesuit..ie. how they look. So-called Thais are not original people in the Land of Frowns. Chinese was the dominant spoken language in Krung Thep a hundred years ago. Thailand is a hierarchical society...say it a thousand times, but I will never put up with racism from anybody.

[Kilgore Trout]

I agree with some posters who have said that you just have to get used to the word in many instances of life here in LOS, despite the fact that it is grossly offensive and racist (when the shoe is on the other foot the Thais won't put up with it, very hypocritical in my view).

However, a teacher in a classroom referring to a student is not one of those instances.

I would have a stern but polite conversation with the teacher and let her know that you will not put up with it.

[seedy]

[quote

You cannot control the entire society, but you can control how your child is taught to treat others.

My thoughts too. Do your best to raise your child to be compassionate and understanding.

The only possible way to defeat racism is education. If our generation don't get it, only future ones have a chance.

Good Luck.

[trisailer]

I think you need to get over yourself before you wreck your kid. Farang is a word that can mean a lot of things both good and bad.

If you haven't used the word around your house than maybe you haven't properly prepared your child for the world.

The goal should be to teach your child to understand the context. Thai is a contextual language. Farang is used to describe everyone not Thai. no big deal.

Kids are tough on each other that's part of the process and if you don't let the process work you get a adult who can't function properly.

Edited May 29, 2011 by trisailer

[beano2274]

Many years ago I worked at a Kindergarten, one of the students had an Australian father and Thai mother, he was never called Farang, he had a first name that was not a Thai name and everyone, including the School owners used his name when talking to him.

When I first arrived I found out what it meant, I really got cheesed off hearing it everyday, after a while I got used to it, but it is still racism.

My wife says she would speak to the Teacher, about it in the first instance, if that did not work then you have a word, best Thai to Thai first.

Maybe the teacher thinks she or he is a comedian, and just wants to impress the class, by picking on one student in the class and the obvious student is your daughter.

Edited May 29, 2011 by beano2274

[GentlemanJim]

Guys , thanks for your considered opinions, you have put forward some thought provoking points, I appreciate them, with the exception of one, Trisailer!

I was counting the time until I would log on and see the 'get over yourself' written. You got my exact words Trisailer. My big fear is that because you are on this thread or sub forum you are actually a teacher. To suggest I will 'wreck my child because I choose not to bring her up as a racisit shows a distinct lack of any education or understanding of child psychology.

If you haven't used the word around your house than maybe you haven't properly prepared your child for the world.

I don't use the words <deleted>, bolleux or wa*k about the house either, and as they seem to be completely contextual and in common use in adults these days, would your particular teaching strategy deem that I start to educate a 4 year old in these words as well, just in case she should be 'shocked' in later life?

I remember at a school reunion when I was 40, meeting up with the guy who was the one and only black kid in our class at school. During the evening whilst reminiscing, he disclosed to me how he had never ever gotten over the years and years of being subjected to all the other kids calling him 'Ni**er', nig nog, and the teacher calling him 'sambo'. He lost count of the times he cried at night, he hated going to school in the morning

.

Kids are tough on each other that's part of the process and if you don't let the process work you get a adult who can't function properly

I have two well educated sons, post university working successfully in London who did not need any such process to make them a 'properly functioning adult. The process you speak of may well be instigated by some children and have to be suffered by others, but that is entirely different from a teacher, condoning and 'schooling' youngsters in that type of behaviour. The truth is Trisailer, with your strategy you don't get properly functioning adults at all, you get adults who perpetuate and tolerate racism and bullying, just like you. Children need to learn about winning and losing, life is about that, they are all good at some things and bad at others, but that is a light year away from subjecting children to overtly public racist humiliation Where would you draw the line Trisailer with your kids at school? Is it ok in your earshot to let the other kids call someone 'ni**er', spazzer, specky, fatso? What the kids do to each other cannot be controlled well, but what you do as a teacher is a very different story.

Farang is a word that can mean a lot of things both good and bad.

When I was a child I saw nothing wrong with the words 'ni**er, or nig nog', thankfully times have changed and the education process has adjusted itself to teach the unacceptability of such labeling. I am sure my daughters teacher thought 30 years ago that 'falang' was ok, so she uses it now. Times have changed and Seedy has hit the nail on the head with the comment

The only possible way to defeat racism is education. If our generation don't get it, only future ones have a chance.

our generation don't get it Trisailer, and it seems, you don't get it either, and by abdicating your responsibility to change things you commit this current young generation to the same prejudices in life. I am not talking here about a bar girl calling someone a falang downtown Bangkok, I am talking about a 3.75 year old having her teacher replace her first name with 'Falang' and using it all day in the classroom, there bye reinforcing to the brand new generation that it is acceptable.

I came on here to canvass opinion and all of the views but yours have been put forward in the manner I would expect a teacher to do so. IMA-FARANG believes I am being over sensitive and to a degree I agree with him, however, his words to me are well considered and compassionate in regards to a concerned parent possessing a little anxiety over a situation my child is exposed to that I believe to be wrong. I am not after agreement I am after constructive comment. Everyone is spot on the money, but I am afraid that for you to state that I will 'wreck my kid', displays an attitude and level of immaturity that has no place in modern day teaching. I am delighted to see from the other responses that your attitude is not representative of the teaching population.

Edited May 29, 2011 by GentlemanJim

[Scott]

This sub-forum is for and about teaching. It's not generally used as a springboard for arguments. Posters have chosen to give the OP input on the subject. Slamming them for their opinion will not be tolerated.

[otherstuff1957]

IMO, confronting the teacher about this directly would be a mistake. I would recommend having your wife talk privately with teacher and explain to her that you are very unhappy with this nickname. Usually, Thais will take advantage of an opportunity to solve a problem with no-one losing face.:jap:

However, if this teacher is really prejudiced, and not just insensitive, this approach may not work. In that case, you might want to talk directly with the director of the school or the department head and ask to have your daughter transferred to a different class (assuming that there is more than one class for her age group).

Good luck!

[rijb]

It's unprofessional for a teacher to label a child for any reason (race, size, IQ, etc.).

However, you might do more harm than good by overreacting to a non-issue. Don't make assumptions. Ask questions. That might be all you have to do.

Edited May 29, 2011 by rijb

[jdinasia]

If you are going to live in Thailand being called Farang IS going to happen. The meaning of the word isn't "foreigner" and its use is not usually "racist". The meaning of the word in the Thai language is "caucasian".

So --- I do see the OP as being over-sensitive. If the OP finds this totally unacceptable then I suggest he pull up stakes and get out FAST! His kid is always going to have a "label" here. On a child-psych level, if it peeves daddy off then the child WILL notice and will be more likely to have issues with it.

Thais have not fallen into the PC trap yet. and I hope they never do.

All the above being said, if you are paying the school then you certainly have the right to make an appointment with the head-master and tell him that you would prefer that your child ONLY be called by her name by teachers, and that you would appreciate it if the teachers helped other children to only use your child's name as well. It may work, or it may set up a dynamic that forces you to pull your child from what you say is the best school in the area.

[GentlemanJim]

Thank you for the continued replies, which again are useful. I fully agree that children have to learn to fight their own battles in life and what goes on between them as a peer group has to be handled in general, by the child. I don't perceive this as a 'PC' issue either. This is about the involvement of a teacher who is instigating a crude form of labeling. It does not involve a 16 year old lad having some banter with his teacher, it involves a 3.75 yr old. Everything about it is wrong.

I won't be going in feet first, nor will I go in heavy handed and if I do actually say anything then the tone would only be gentle or seeded with humour. All that matters is the outcome, which is to stop inappropriate labeling by a teacher. Kids are cruel enough towards each other without an adult throwing fuel on the fire.

[SteeleJoe]

I'm not going to get into yet another "discussion" of whether Farang is offensive or not nor elaborate on its historical, cultural and etymological context (again).

But I have to ask: is this a troll?

Because in 3 decades of hearing that word, I've NEVER heard it used that way and it makes no linguistic sense to me

[GentlemanJim]

I'm not going to get into yet another "discussion" of whether Farang is offensive or not nor elaborate on its historical, cultural and etymological context (again).

But I have to ask: is this a troll?

Because in 3 decades of hearing that word, I've NEVER heard it used that way and it makes no linguistic sense to me

I assure you, it's not a troll.

[SteeleJoe]

I'm not going to get into yet another "discussion" of whether Farang is offensive or not nor elaborate on its historical, cultural and etymological context (again).

But I have to ask: is this a troll?

Because in 3 decades of hearing that word, I've NEVER heard it used that way and it makes no linguistic sense to me

I assure you, it's not a troll.

Fair enough. I am on record (repeatedly -- here a a couple times and over the years many, many other times elsewhere) as saying the word isn't inherently offensive but there offesnive uses of it.

This definitely qualifies as the latter and if it were me, you can be da_n sure I'd do something about it. That's not to say I'd go in with guns blazing, but I'd not just let it slide. (As matter of fact I'm going to check with my son right now to see if he's ever been addressed that way -- though given how well I know his teachers, let alone the oddness of this particular syntax, I'd be very surprised.).

[SteeleJoe]

Farang is a word that can mean a lot of things both good and bad.

Wrong. It is neither good nor bad. And it only means one thing.

Thai is a contextual language.

Eh? Which language is not contextual?

Farang is used to describe everyone not Thai.

Wrong again. It's almost exclusively used to describe people of European descent. That leaves a huge amount of people who are not Thai (but Farangs often forget that).

[Firelily]

Personally, I have nothing against the word "farang" in contexts where people don't know my name, or talk about foreigners in general.

However, in these 6 years I have been a kindergarten teacher, I have never heard a child called by their surname or addressed directly as "farang". Actually, for me, the surname sounds more offensive, most kids this age don't even remember their own surnames, it's just so rarely used and totally inappropriate. I think first I would deal with the problem casually, like, "oh I hear you cannot remember my kid's given name, it is Samantha, this is how we spell it, but we also call her Ploy." If this fails completely, there are still other options to get the point across, I would not get confrontational on week 3 of school if it can be avoided.

[Towzak]

I agree with the OP. If I was in a similar situation and it was my child I would also endeavour to take some steps to prevent him/her being called 'farang Smith' or whoever. Simply because my child has a name along with all the other children in the class and should be treated equally. In a school environment I think its inappropriate to use the term farang towards children particularly by a so-called teacher. I can perhaps understand it coming from other students but a teacher...no!

I get called farang all the time and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I do not personally consider it offensive. However, in some situations you tend to feel that being called 'farang' as some racist overtones. I worked in a government school for almost two years where some of the Thai English teachers were particularly unfriendly and clearly did not want you there. After almost two years they still referred to me and my colleague as farang or foreigner e.g. "let the foreigners do it". They knew our names and it was supposed to be a working environment (in a foreign language department) so in this context I think yes it can come over as somewhat irritating and offensive. Generally though it is not intended to be offensive and should not be considered so.

As suggested above I would certainly not go overboard and I would try to remedy the situation as peacefully as possible, even if initially you have to be jocular about it and try to steer the teacher into using your child's name rather than wagging a very angry finger. A bit of jai yen yen I think

[SteeleJoe]

I agree with the OP. If I was in a similar situation and it was my child I would also endeavour to take some steps to prevent him/her being called 'farang Smith' or whoever. Simply because my child has a name along with all the other children in the class and should be treated equally. In a school environment I think its inappropriate to use the term farang towards children particularly by a so-called teacher. I can perhaps understand it coming from other students but a teacher...no!

I get called farang all the time and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I do not personally consider it offensive. However, in some situations you tend to feel that being called 'farang' as some racist overtones. I worked in a government school for almost two years where some of the Thai English teachers were particularly unfriendly and clearly did not want you there. After almost two years they still referred to me and my colleague as farang or foreigner e.g. "let the foreigners do it". They knew our names and it was supposed to be a working environment (in a foreign language department) so in this context I think yes it can come over as somewhat irritating and offensive. Generally though it is not intended to be offensive and should not be considered so.

As suggested above I would certainly not go overboard and I would try to remedy the situation as peacefully as possible, even if initially you have to be jocular about it and try to steer the teacher into using your child's name rather than wagging a very angry finger. A bit of jai yen yen I think

Good posts from both of the teachers above. Nice to see reasonable and switched on folks teaching (not that I generally assume otherwise of teachers).

[kokesaat]

As I see it, if you have 30 kids in a class and all are called by their first name, except for one, who's called 'falang Bob', that's no different than if you had 30 kids in a class all called by their first name, except for one, who's called 'fat Bob' or 'stinky Bob' or 'my best student Bob'.

It's possible that this teacher has done this sort of thing before, unchallenged. I'd have a heart-to-heart....jai yen yen, but firm.

[Scott]

Talking to the head of the school--if the teacher persists, is a good option. A lot of administrators will stop something, even if they don't agree, because they don't like to have upset parents.

Where I work, the students and Thai teachers are specifically forbidden to refer to the Foreign teachers as Farang. It's a word that I occasionally hear at the school, but it is never in reference to a teacher or student.

I have never known a teacher to actually refer to a child as 'farang' by a teacher. It sounds quite inappropriate and it is appropriate for the parents to object.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Scott
misunderstanding corrected

[jdinasia]

I'm not going to get into yet another "discussion" of whether Farang is offensive or not nor elaborate on its historical, cultural and etymological context (again).

But I have to ask: is this a troll?

Because in 3 decades of hearing that word, I've NEVER heard it used that way and it makes no linguistic sense to me

I concur (but am about 2 decades behind you)

*note -- there is another meaning of farang (guava)

[GentlemanJim]

I'm not going to get into yet another "discussion" of whether Farang is offensive or not nor elaborate on its historical, cultural and etymological context (again).

But I have to ask: is this a troll?

Because in 3 decades of hearing that word, I've NEVER heard it used that way and it makes no linguistic sense to me

I concur (but am about 2 decades behind you)

*note -- there is another meaning of farang (guava)

Well if you concur, I have no option but to repeat my reply that I gave to Steele Joe

"I assure you, It's not a troll".

Many thanks guys for the considered posts, some really good stuff, thank you.

[jdinasia]

I'm not going to get into yet another "discussion" of whether Farang is offensive or not nor elaborate on its historical, cultural and etymological context (again).

But I have to ask: is this a troll?

Because in 3 decades of hearing that word, I've NEVER heard it used that way and it makes no linguistic sense to me

I concur (but am about 2 decades behind you)

*note -- there is another meaning of farang (guava)

Well if you concur, I have no option but to repeat my reply that I gave to Steele Joe

"I assure you, It's not a troll".

Many thanks guys for the considered posts, some really good stuff, thank you.

Sorry, was concurring with his last line ... Had I thought you were trolling I would not have posted either time

[GentlemanJim]

I'm not going to get into yet another "discussion" of whether Farang is offensive or not nor elaborate on its historical, cultural and etymological context (again).

But I have to ask: is this a troll?

Because in 3 decades of hearing that word, I've NEVER heard it used that way and it makes no linguistic sense to me

I concur (but am about 2 decades behind you)

*note -- there is another meaning of farang (guava)

Well if you concur, I have no option but to repeat my reply that I gave to Steele Joe

"I assure you, It's not a troll".

Many thanks guys for the considered posts, some really good stuff, thank you.

Sorry, was concurring with his last line ... Had I thought you were trolling I would not have posted either time

No snags. Thanks.

[MAJIC]

No Jim!

I don't believe you are being oversensitive,most other Western Parents would understand, that this Teacher has deliberately,discriminated against your Daughter,instead of integrating her into the class,by addressing her by her correct first name,she has made her an object of isolation,and labelled her as being different from the other children, instead of merely explaining to the class that she is from: ...............(insert Country)

And as we with Children know,that is one thing that Children do not do, which is discriminate,you can be any colour,age,or appearance,they have young, free and open minds,now this silly,ignorant Teacher has started perpetuating some next generation Racialism on young and vulnerable minds,when it was completely uncalled for.

The sad part of it is, the Teachers own Education is so poor,that she does not understand that she is a Racist, and probably will never know in her own lifetime.

Many on TV will explain to you that "Farang" is really a fun word with little meaning attached to it,or give long winded,multiple theories and answers, as to how the word came about,in the first place, Sheer nonsense full stop, its Racist!

For all you Apologists out there,Try asking your Thai Girlfriend/Wife,the following:

Q..........When I take you back to my Country,will you be the "Farang?" as in Foreiner?

A.......... Guaranteed she will protest and will say something on the lines of:......"no no no, I am Thai" or "I will always be Thai" (or words to that effect)

So if Thais don't want to be pinned with this word "Farang",it must be derogatory,and undesirable as a label, that being the case,why should we Westerners be happy being called it?????

They also still call us "Farangs" while Residing in our Countries

Which I have heard said many times,in the UK!

Edited May 29, 2011 by MAJIC

[SteeleJoe]

For all you Apologists out there,Try asking your Thai Girlfriend/Wife,the following:

Q..........When I take you back to my Country,will you be the "Farang?" as in Foreiner?

A.......... Guaranteed she will protest and will say something on the lines of:......"no no no, I am Thai" or "I will always be Thai" (or words to that effect)

So if Thais don't want to be pinned with this word "Farang",it must be derogatory,and undesirable as a label, that being the case,why should we Westerners be happy being called it?????

They also still call us "Farangs" while Residing in our Countries

Which I have heard said many times,in the UK!

Oops! It means "Caucasian". So no matter where you go, you are still one and your Thai wife or GF never will be.

Try again.