Thai Elite, Middle Class Cold To Unfavourable Poll Results

[webfact]

Elite, middle class cold to unfavourable poll results

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Thai society is suffering from a "cultural illness" wherein the middle class and elite have difficulty accepting electoral legitimacy when results go against their wishes, says Chulalongkorn University political scientist Aek Tangsabwattana.

This, Aek warned, was detrimental to the establishment of a democratic system because those afflicted ended up supporting military coups d'etat or outside intervention when they disagreed with the majority of voters from the lower class.

Calling this a "lingering problem", the lecturer said the former should learn to "respect" the voice of the majority. He added that recent research suggested a political awakening among the masses. "Are less-educated Thais in fact more democratically minded?" he asked.

"I think it's symptomatic of a cultural illness in Thai society... The elite and the middle class believe [the masses] are easily bought and deceived," he said, during a symposium on post-electoral Thai politics organised by the Konrad Adenauer Foundation and the Institute of Democratisation Studies (IDS). He added that in fact the masses were not stupid and did negotiate politically.

Aek said that unlike in the United States, there was little awareness among the elite and middle class on how important it was to ensure that the democratic system was not overthrown by unconstitutional interference, such as by a military coup.

"This shows that our political culture differs [from the US]. The Americans fought through the centuries, while ours is a democracy bestowed from above. We do not realise how important it is to maintain the system," he said.

He pointed out that the close presidential race between George W Bush and Al Gore ended after Gore decided not to pursue a legal challenge against the result, fearing that it could wreck the fabric of the whole political system.

"Our [political culture] is so far behind the US. All we need to do is to first accept the electoral result," said Aek, who added that people should admit that the September 2006 coup had thrown Thailand into a cycle of unwillingness to accept electoral results.

"The military claimed that by taking one step backward we could take two steps forward. Now, it's clear that a poison tree can only bear poisonous fruits..." he said.

Aek urged the middle class and elite to recognise the democratic system as the least evil among all existing systems and to not de-legitimise the democratic system through selective acceptance of electoral results.

"To say no to elections is to say no to the least-evil political system," Aek summarised.

Chaturon Chaisang, former deputy prime minister under Thaksin Shinawatra and IDS founder, said many diplomats and foreign journalists had expressed concern to him over whether the powers that be would accept the July 3 electoral result if the results didn't go their way.

"Many sides have already prepared their excuses for not accepting the electoral result in [paper inside] their pockets," he said.

Thanet Apornsuwan, an expert on American Studies at Thammasat University, said he was more hopeful, however, saying many ordinary people, red and yellow, were now keen and bold enough to discuss politics and make critical comments that were inconceivable a few decades back.

"The movements of the yellow and red shirts have at least turned the political space into a public sphere," said Thanet.

He criticised the "No" vote campaign pushed by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) as an attempt to turn Thailand's clock back a century, back to absolute monarchy.

Thanet urged people not to be dependent on any single institution and said the democratic system could only be stable when no other institution could undermine it.

Thanet said that if Thailand could stand firm in accepting the upcoming electoral result without calling for outside intervention, it could be a turning point in the stabilising of the democratic system in Thailand.

-- The Nation 2011-06-03

[maewrocks]

This really does sum up the reality in Thailand beautifully. Thank you K. Aek for helping the ThaksinVengeance.com bashers get more of an insight into the society that they are trying to understand.

[dominique355]

One wonders on what Aek bases his insight views of the middle Class and the Elite. And how does he define "middle class" or "elite"?

Idle blabber with anecdotal knowledge.

[whybother]

Have there been any poll results that didn't have half the respondents undecided?

[whybother]

Thanet said that if Thailand could stand firm in accepting the upcoming electoral result

There have already been a number of statements from the PTP saying that they won't accept the result if they don't get into government.

[Thai at Heart]

On the basis that the political parties have virtually no economic or political ethos, I am not sure that if you asked the elite or educated why they don't vote a certain way and why they don't support the result for a party that they don't like, I don't think would provide a very detailed answer.

I don't believe that the elite or the middle class is that much more politically savvy than other group in the country.

[rkidlad]

On the basis that the political parties have virtually no economic or political ethos, I am not sure that if you asked the elite or educated why they don't vote a certain way and why they don't support the result for a party that they don't like, I don't think would provide a very detailed answer.

I don't believe that the elite or the middle class is that much more politically savvy than other group in the country.

Indeed. They all go kicking and screaming if they don't get their own way. What happened to 'mai pen rai'

[geriatrickid]

The reaction of the Thai "haves" is mimiced by many in TVF: Denial, mixed with condescending hostility.

[whybother]

The reaction of the Thai "haves" is mimiced by many in TVF: Denial, mixed with condescending hostility.

WHAT reaction of the Thai "haves"?

[MunterHunter]

On the basis that the political parties have virtually no economic or political ethos, I am not sure that if you asked the elite or educated why they don't vote a certain way and why they don't support the result for a party that they don't like, I don't think would provide a very detailed answer.

I don't believe that the elite or the middle class is that much more politically savvy than other group in the country.

Indeed. They all go kicking and screaming if they don't get their own way. What happened to 'mai pen rai'

I think that statement applies to all groups, be they Lower class, Middle class or Elite.

If the Reds claim to be the voice of the Rural Poor, then its obvious the Lower classes go kicking and screaming if they dont get their own way

And if the journalist who wrote this article is correct, so do the Middle classes and 'Elite'

[bobmac10]

One wonders on what Aek bases his insight views of the middle Class and the Elite. And how does he define "middle class" or "elite"?

Idle blabber with anecdotal knowledge.

I disagree, I think he is spot on, the culture of inherited privilege in very much a function of Thai society. Stemming from its feudal past (which is barely 100 years ago) the elite or wealthy could basically do what they liked as they had all the power.

The peasant class had no rights at all. Even today, one only has to watch the interaction between the wealthy elite and poor country people to see how things have changed very little.

Rich people in Thailand think they can do what they like, can buy off policemen and politicians, get special treatment in the government bureaucratic system by paying bribes (and expecting it) and generally behaving as if they deserve these privileges.

It is their culture, this is the way things have always been and a short history of Western values will not change things here any time soon.

[whybother]

One wonders on what Aek bases his insight views of the middle Class and the Elite. And how does he define "middle class" or "elite"?

Idle blabber with anecdotal knowledge.

I disagree, I think he is spot on, the culture of inherited privilege in very much a function of Thai society. Stemming from its feudal past (which is barely 100 years ago) the elite or wealthy could basically do what they liked as they had all the power.

The peasant class had no rights at all. Even today, one only has to watch the interaction between the wealthy elite and poor country people to see how things have changed very little.

Rich people in Thailand think they can do what they like, can buy off policemen and politicians, get special treatment in the government bureaucratic system by paying bribes (and expecting it) and generally behaving as if they deserve these privileges.

It is their culture, this is the way things have always been and a short history of Western values will not change things here any time soon.

And what about the "middle class"? A generation or two ago, these people would have been defined as peasants.

It's all just stereo-types.

The "elite" and "middle-class" includes just the rich and better off in Bangkok, ignoring all the well off people in the other big cities and country areas.

[bobmac10]

One wonders on what Aek bases his insight views of the middle Class and the Elite. And how does he define "middle class" or "elite"?

Idle blabber with anecdotal knowledge.

I disagree, I think he is spot on, the culture of inherited privilege in very much a function of Thai society. Stemming from its feudal past (which is barely 100 years ago) the elite or wealthy could basically do what they liked as they had all the power.

The peasant class had no rights at all. Even today, one only has to watch the interaction between the wealthy elite and poor country people to see how things have changed very little.

Rich people in Thailand think they can do what they like, can buy off policemen and politicians, get special treatment in the government bureaucratic system by paying bribes (and expecting it) and generally behaving as if they deserve these privileges.

It is their culture, this is the way things have always been and a short history of Western values will not change things here any time soon.

And what about the "middle class"? A generation or two ago, these people would have been defined as peasants.

It's all just stereo-types.

The "elite" and "middle-class" includes just the rich and better off in Bangkok, ignoring all the well off people in the other big cities and country areas.

From my experience, the middle class is difficult to define because that would include self made business people who have benefited from the growth in the economy over the past thirty years, but the largest sector has been the explosion in government paid workers, most of whom are university "graduates". These most definitely consider themselves as middle class even though most are struggling on their salaries. But the attitude of this group I would describe as elitist, the university system here seems to give them a sense of superiority over their more uneducated compatriots.

I have had to deal with the large government departments for many years now and I find that many of the bureaucrats are arrogant about their status, resent having to perform to any outside (i.e. farung) performance indicators, spend most of their time in their pecking order office politics (sucking up to the big boss and giving their underlings a hard time) and generally doing as little as possible.

One thing is for sure, they have a superiority complex about where they stand in the Thai class system and look down on the country folk who didn't have the benefit of higher education.

[khaowong1]

One wonders on what Aek bases his insight views of the middle Class and the Elite. And how does he define "middle class" or "elite"?

Idle blabber with anecdotal knowledge.

I disagree, I think he is spot on, the culture of inherited privilege in very much a function of Thai society. Stemming from its feudal past (which is barely 100 years ago) the elite or wealthy could basically do what they liked as they had all the power.

The peasant class had no rights at all. Even today, one only has to watch the interaction between the wealthy elite and poor country people to see how things have changed very little.

Rich people in Thailand think they can do what they like, can buy off policemen and politicians, get special treatment in the government bureaucratic system by paying bribes (and expecting it) and generally behaving as if they deserve these privileges.

It is their culture, this is the way things have always been and a short history of Western values will not change things here any time soon.

A very true reply. and like you say, nothing is going to change here any time soon. About the only hope Thailand has is if the young college educated kids, especially the ones educated outside the country start the change. It's going to be a long time before you see any major change.

[khaowong1]

One wonders on what Aek bases his insight views of the middle Class and the Elite. And how does he define "middle class" or "elite"?

Idle blabber with anecdotal knowledge.

I disagree, I think he is spot on, the culture of inherited privilege in very much a function of Thai society. Stemming from its feudal past (which is barely 100 years ago) the elite or wealthy could basically do what they liked as they had all the power.

The peasant class had no rights at all. Even today, one only has to watch the interaction between the wealthy elite and poor country people to see how things have changed very little.

Rich people in Thailand think they can do what they like, can buy off policemen and politicians, get special treatment in the government bureaucratic system by paying bribes (and expecting it) and generally behaving as if they deserve these privileges.

It is their culture, this is the way things have always been and a short history of Western values will not change things here any time soon.

And what about the "middle class"? A generation or two ago, these people would have been defined as peasants.

It's all just stereo-types.

The "elite" and "middle-class" includes just the rich and better off in Bangkok, ignoring all the well off people in the other big cities and country areas.

From my experience, the middle class is difficult to define because that would include self made business people who have benefited from the growth in the economy over the past thirty years, but the largest sector has been the explosion in government paid workers, most of whom are university "graduates". These most definitely consider themselves as middle class even though most are struggling on their salaries. But the attitude of this group I would describe as elitist, the university system here seems to give them a sense of superiority over their more uneducated compatriots.

I have had to deal with the large government departments for many years now and I find that many of the bureaucrats are arrogant about their status, resent having to perform to any outside (i.e. farung) performance indicators, spend most of their time in their pecking order office politics (sucking up to the big boss and giving their underlings a hard time) and generally doing as little as possible.

One thing is for sure, they have a superiority complex about where they stand in the Thai class system and look down on the country folk who didn't have the benefit of higher education.

Yes, I'm seeing this more and more as the younger, college educated govt workers take over in the different govt departments around Thailand.

[geriatrickid]

The reaction of the Thai "haves" is mimiced by many in TVF: Denial, mixed with condescending hostility.

WHAT reaction of the Thai "haves"?

As per the article;

The elite and the middle class believe [the masses] are easily bought and deceived," he said, during a symposium on post-electoral Thai politics organised by the Konrad Adenauer Foundation and the Institute of Democratisation Studies (IDS). He added that in fact the masses were not stupid and did negotiate politically.

Go into any thread on politics and someone is claiming that the supporters of a political party have been bought and paid for. One of my workers is a supporter of Thaksin and sympathetic to the redshirts. He has never received a payoff for that support. He feels that way because he is disenfranchised economically and socially. This is what a lot of people don't get.

[whybother]

From my experience, the middle class is difficult to define because that would include self made business people who have benefited from the growth in the economy over the past thirty years, but the largest sector has been the explosion in government paid workers, most of whom are university "graduates". These most definitely consider themselves as middle class even though most are struggling on their salaries. But the attitude of this group I would describe as elitist, the university system here seems to give them a sense of superiority over their more uneducated compatriots.

I have had to deal with the large government departments for many years now and I find that many of the bureaucrats are arrogant about their status, resent having to perform to any outside (i.e. farung) performance indicators, spend most of their time in their pecking order office politics (sucking up to the big boss and giving their underlings a hard time) and generally doing as little as possible.

One thing is for sure, they have a superiority complex about where they stand in the Thai class system and look down on the country folk who didn't have the benefit of higher education.

So, what you're saying, is that the peasants who get an education and become middle class look down on the peasants that don't get an education.

It seems that these people had the same opportunities, just that one group decided to better themselves, and in getting an education get a different view on life.

[whybother]

The reaction of the Thai "haves" is mimiced by many in TVF: Denial, mixed with condescending hostility.

WHAT reaction of the Thai "haves"?

As per the article;

The elite and the middle class believe [the masses] are easily bought and deceived," he said, during a symposium on post-electoral Thai politics organised by the Konrad Adenauer Foundation and the Institute of Democratisation Studies (IDS). He added that in fact the masses were not stupid and did negotiate politically.

Go into any thread on politics and someone is claiming that the supporters of a political party have been bought and paid for. One of my workers is a supporter of Thaksin and sympathetic to the redshirts. He has never received a payoff for that support. He feels that way because he is disenfranchised economically and socially. This is what a lot of people don't get.

But that's not a "reaction of the Thai "haves" ". That's just someone giving their opinion.

[KireB]

Go into any thread on politics and someone is claiming that the supporters of a political party have been bought and paid for. One of my workers is a supporter of Thaksin and sympathetic to the redshirts. He has never received a payoff for that support. He feels that way because he is disenfranchised economically and socially. This is what a lot of people don't get.

My parents in law did receive money to join the reds last year. 1000 baht for a Saturday driving around the ring road once or twice in their pick up!

[bobmac10]

From my experience, the middle class is difficult to define because that would include self made business people who have benefited from the growth in the economy over the past thirty years, but the largest sector has been the explosion in government paid workers, most of whom are university "graduates". These most definitely consider themselves as middle class even though most are struggling on their salaries. But the attitude of this group I would describe as elitist, the university system here seems to give them a sense of superiority over their more uneducated compatriots.

I have had to deal with the large government departments for many years now and I find that many of the bureaucrats are arrogant about their status, resent having to perform to any outside (i.e. farung) performance indicators, spend most of their time in their pecking order office politics (sucking up to the big boss and giving their underlings a hard time) and generally doing as little as possible.

One thing is for sure, they have a superiority complex about where they stand in the Thai class system and look down on the country folk who didn't have the benefit of higher education.

So, what you're saying, is that the peasants who get an education and become middle class look down on the peasants that don't get an education.

It seems that these people had the same opportunities, just that one group decided to better themselves, and in getting an education get a different view on life.

No, I'm not saying that because very few Thai peasants get the chance to send their children to university, they simply can't afford to.

My experience is that Thai business people who started with little are usually still very much understanding of and feel part of the Thai working class.

My wife's family have managed to branch out through their rural businesses and have elevated themselves, but don't look down on the rural peasants.

The opposite needs to be said for the rich kids who get uni paid for by their parents.

[bangkokburning]

History bears out both the premise and conclusion.

The university kids are going to change anything, least of all civil servants. There is no real middle class here. Just a bunch of people making a bit more money that have been given access to credit. It's the American/Western loser formula.

This nation is clearly on a downward spiral.

I find it ironic, holding up the states as a model. The US has only seen turmoil and confusion in its politics the last decade. The Legislative branch of gov't isn't even functional.

Many are duped into voting for silly cultural issues while they are one step away from a cliff they willingly through themselves off of. Others vote against their self interest as some sort of show of solidarity based on empty principals when the deck is clearly stacked against them.

I see huge and interesting parallels between Thailand and the US. Economically and Politically, even culturally as Thailand moves toward a modern society.

Laughable when Hong Kong and nanny state Singapore have far better governance. Even Malaysia!

[Thaddeus]

Go into any thread on politics and someone is claiming that the supporters of a political party have been bought and paid for. One of my workers is a supporter of Thaksin and sympathetic to the redshirts. He has never received a payoff for that support. He feels that way because he is disenfranchised economically and socially. This is what a lot of people don't get.

My parents in law did receive money to join the reds last year. 1000 baht for a Saturday driving around the ring road once or twice in their pick up!

They couldn't work out how to turn left?

[caribbeanman]

i think that Mr. Aek is absolutely right, and i also don't understand the yellows' "Vote no" campaign, what's the point of voting no? to kill democracy? i think that if pollycal situaton continues this way i better start to find another place to live in

[ballpoint]

The reaction of the Thai "haves" is mimiced by many in TVF: Denial, mixed with condescending hostility.

WHAT reaction of the Thai "haves"?

As per the article;

The elite and the middle class believe [the masses] are easily bought and deceived," he said, during a symposium on post-electoral Thai politics organised by the Konrad Adenauer Foundation and the Institute of Democratisation Studies (IDS). He added that in fact the masses were not stupid and did negotiate politically.

Go into any thread on politics and someone is claiming that the supporters of a political party have been bought and paid for. One of my workers is a supporter of Thaksin and sympathetic to the redshirts. He has never received a payoff for that support. He feels that way because he is disenfranchised economically and socially. This is what a lot of people don't get.

No, someone paid by a foundation set up by one of Thaksin's deputy PMs said that.

If your "worker" is not paid enough to be "economically franchised", then I suggest he take it up with his employer.

[timekeeper]

This really does sum up the reality in Thailand beautifully. Thank you K. Aek for helping the ThaksinVengeance.com bashers get more of an insight into the society that they are trying to understand.

i was hoping to discuss your red leaning propaganda input from yesterday maewrocks but i see your posts have been deleted

shame...........

[moe666]

i think that Mr. Aek is absolutely right, and i also don't understand the yellows' "Vote no" campaign, what's the point of voting no? to kill democracy? i think that if pollycal situaton continues this way i better start to find another place to live in

So have you found the perfect place to live without turmoil and uphevel let us know we might join you

[arrowsdawdle]

The reaction of the Thai "haves" is mimiced by many in TVF: Denial, mixed with condescending hostility.

WHAT reaction of the Thai "haves"?

Case in point.

[Samuian]

The elite and the middle class believe [the masses] are easily bought and deceived

There isn't much to "believe" it's a simple Fact and is done again and again, and again...!

Education would do, but this would take a few generations, cause the "receivers" at the very bottom, are used to this system and see no fault with receiving anything extra topping their sparsely incomes!

It could be quickly outrootet, but this would take the will of those who take adavatage of this fact... catch 22!

[arrowsdawdle]

On the basis that the political parties have virtually no economic or political ethos, I am not sure that if you asked the elite or educated why they don't vote a certain way and why they don't support the result for a party that they don't like, I don't think would provide a very detailed answer.

I don't believe that the elite or the middle class is that much more politically savvy than other group in the country.

Indeed. They all go kicking and screaming if they don't get their own way. What happened to 'mai pen rai'

I think that statement applies to all groups, be they Lower class, Middle class or Elite.

If the Reds claim to be the voice of the Rural Poor, then its obvious the Lower classes go kicking and screaming if they dont get their own way

And if the journalist who wrote this article is correct, so do the Middle classes and 'Elite'

And exactly how is it that Reds and rural poor stage coups and revoke election results?

[Buchholz]

The reaction of the Thai "haves" is mimiced by many in TVF: Denial, mixed with condescending hostility.

WHAT reaction of the Thai "haves"?

As per the article;

The elite and the middle class believe [the masses] are easily bought and deceived," he said, during a symposium on post-electoral Thai politics organised by the Konrad Adenauer Foundation and the Institute of Democratisation Studies (IDS). He added that in fact the masses were not stupid and did negotiate politically.

Go into any thread on politics and someone is claiming that the supporters of a political party have been bought and paid for. One of my workies is a supporter of Thaksin and sympathetic to the redshirts. He has never received a payoff for that support. He feels that way because he is disenfranchised economically and socially. This is what alot of people don't get.

No, someone paid by a foundation set up by one of Thaksin's deputy PMs said that.

If your "workie" is not paid enough to be "economically franchised", then I suggest he take it up with his employer.

Good grief... the President of the Institute of Democratisation Studies (IDS) is sometime Red Shirt and Banned From Politics former Thai Rak Thai Party Leader Chaturon Chaisaeng.