A Farang Living In Thailand

[TigerWan]

I've often thought western men married to Thai women are actually quite sheltered from the unpleasant realities. They simply don't have to deal with it.

[Richard4849]

So you have a personal situation which makes it impossible for you to leave a country you dislike? I can't imagine what kind of situation that would be, but if it is personal you obviously don't have to reveal it here.

I'm sorry YOU don't feel welcomed -- but I wish you wouldn't paint the rest of us with your brush. *I* feel welcome, my friends who love it here feel welcome -- completely welcome -- or I wouldn't be here for as long as I have. They even gave me a Thai ID card...that's pretty welcoming, don't you think?

[jdinasia]

Really won't go into detail of personal situations but as this is a discussion forum I will give my view, my highly negative view of Thai folk , generally a bad taste.

Has " The move someplace else" line ever worked with anyone who is simply reponding to a discussion forum. Why is the Thai defender so adamant ? Are they simply trying to convince themselves?

I'm also compiling the worst examples of blatant disregard of safety.

So to answer the OP IMHO no westerner can ever be welcomed- only their money.

Hmmm I had a look at your posting history so can approximate many things such as age, gender, length of time in Thailand ....

Actually your "highly negative view of Thai folk" besides being extremely subjective and in my subjective experience ... WAY off .... can simply be described as a violation of rule #8 that you agreed to when you joined.

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

The answer to your question of has the move someplace else line ever worked? Is certainly yes. Anyone that reviews their life some place and decides that they are not happy there (because of the place/people etc) would be silly not to head to greener pastures, assuming they haven't burnt all their bridges in moving here. The people that have done that, while I do feel pity for them, made the bed they have to sleep in.

So much of life here is subjective --- and I love it here. I am aware of some of the limitations and issues Thailand has but I find the people to be honest, decent, and fun ... yeah I have run into some jerks that are Thai, but again to be honest that has mostly been in highly touristy areas. Even where I live in Chiang Mai -- inside the moat (so very central) I find the people honest and decent.

Am I looked at differently because I am white? Yes. Does the fact that I am white occasionally cost me more than if I were Thai? Yes. Does me being white also afford me some benefits? Yes. Does being white also add a really great benefit .... that I am outside of (not above and not below) the Thai social system? Yes. I can associate with everyone from Generals to Tuk-Tuk drivers on a different level than Thais themselves can, just from being outside of the social system. It really is a great place to live ---- for some people --- others don't adjust to it and should find places where they are happier. Very simply, life is too short to live somewhere where you are unhappy and look down on the people around you!

[Rumpole]

My suggestion to you is don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

The classical riposte of an aggrieved Thaiphile. Aggrieved by views which are different to his own.

[JemJem]

Thailand has always had big problems with immigrants that cause the country great economic losses and crime.

Got any statistics to support this ??

You sound like a right-winger who is keen on 'anti-immigrant' talk.

Edited June 5, 2011 by JemJem

[Richard4849]

My suggestion to you is don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

The classical riposte of an aggrieved Thaiphile. Aggrieved by views which are different to his own.

On the contrary...people who are miserable in Thailand (yet who never seem to do the simple thing and up and leave) seem offended by people who make a successful and happy lives for themselves here -- accusing them of either lying or wearing "rose-colored spectacles".

I can't understand why there are any Thai negativists here at all...if I hated a place, I would find happier hunting grounds and simply not look back. And that includes posting on forums devoted to it.

Oh, right...there are "personal situations" which prevent these people from leaving. Righty-o.

[travelmann]

Maybe Thailand is fed up by Frang that will not integrate into society, farang who insist on living western lifestyles, refuses to learn the language, refuses to comply with visa regulations, etc.

Maybe it will be easier for us farang living here when we begin to correct us by the host's rules and culture.

Thailand has always had big problems with immigrants that cause the country great economic losses and crime.

If you want to make money here so you should have a work permit.

Oh..... you mean brainwashed!!

[Rumpole]

On the contrary...people who are miserable in Thailand (yet who never seem to do the simple thing and up and leave) seem offended by people who make a successful and happy lives for themselves here -- accusing them of either lying or wearing "rose-colored spectacles".

I can't understand why there are any Thai negativists here at all...if I hated a place, I would find happier hunting grounds and simply not look back. And that includes posting on forums devoted to it.

Why should you care? Really? How do the negativity and dissatisfaction of others impinge upon the utopia which you have managed to create for yourself, unless perhaps that utopia is a little more fragile than you are prepared to admit? Naw, that couldn't be it. You are happy in Thailand. Good for you, but quite frankly I couldn't care less; any more than I care about some of the negative opinions expressed by posters on this board about countries which *I* like.

Edited June 5, 2011 by Rumpole

[Richard4849]

I don't care if you're happy or not.

I'd just really like a good answer as to why those who hate Thailand and appear miserable here just don't leave.

I mean, it's as if you hated McDonalds, but continued to eat every meal there -- and posted about how disgusting it was each and every time on the McDonalds fanciers website.

I don't get it. I really don't. I lived in China for a while. Hated it. Left. It was all so simple.

Can anyone explain this phenomenon? I'm 100% serious here.

[surayu]

While not calling you a liar, I find that story very, very hard to believe.

Well, you wouldn't be the first here to claim something it's false only because it didn't happen to you personally (or perhaps, even it did happen, going to any extent for denying there is anything wrong happening here....eehhrmm).

[michaeljordan]

It is what it is in Thailand.

The Thais, many of them, know the laws and the system is all wrong. many of them would like to modernize the nation but you know how that has been going. Coup after coup to keep the people down and to keep things the same is what we have seen.

I used to live and work in Thailand. It was a good party for a single man if you did not mind the down sides. But I noticed at the time how all my friends I worked with would leave. In fact, 95% of the guys who worked at my work place were gone after a decade. I am not kidding. When a guy would have kids, the man would almost always take them back to his home nation. That says a lot about Thailand and it is a big negative statement is it not.

Let us take one example here.

If you are a Thai, not even an immigrant, you can buy land America. You can buy land and own it 100%.

He can also get a green card which is permanent residence. using this, the same Thai can get citizenship in 3 years.

A Farang--derogatory name, cannot do any of this in Thailand.

Thais know their laws are stupid but they hold onto them.

Funny Farang telling us how kind some Thais are. Of course that is true. But the institution of discrimination against Farang is still there. Could you imagine how you would laugh had an American from the Old South defended the unfair laws of the 1960s by saying that many white people in the south are fair and kind? Yes--but the laws and institutions were not fair and kind. When you treat people unfairly based upon race, Nationality, sex, or class, you are a disease. You are part of the problems in this world and not part of the solutions.

If you do stay in Thailand, make friends in high places and you will be OK.

All things can be done if you have the right connections.

But a Farang should not be caught in Thailand should the nation break into a civil war because you would become ROADKILL!

[surayu]

Sadly, lots of those people have little to go back to...they aren't usually the cream of society.

Even more sadly, the same pigs ready to go lower then the lowest imaginable possible act, the same people capable of the most ignobles crimes in the west, obviously feel complitely comfortable immersed on any corrupted environment, not even ashamed to show in public their total support for those coward practices....

[Rumpole]

I don't care if you're happy or not.

I'd just really like a good answer as to why those who hate Thailand and appear miserable here just don't leave.

I mean, it's as if you hated McDonalds, but continued to eat every meal there -- and posted about how disgusting it was each and every time on the McDonalds fanciers website.

I don't get it. I really don't. I lived in China for a while. Hated it. Left. It was all so simple.

Can anyone explain this phenomenon? I'm 100% serious here.

I also lived in China for several years and very much enjoyed my time there. I remained in Thailand until I felt that for me the positives were overshadowed by the negatives and then I too 'didn't let the door hit my ass on the way out'. Simple indeed.

It never ceases to amuse how Thaiphiles will pounce on anyone who dares to express a negative opinion of the country with the same kind of vigour and disdain that Catholics might reserve for a person who defecates in the Cistine Chapel. I have not encountered this among the expats in any of the other 14 countries in which I have lived and worked. Perhaps someone could explain this phenomenon?

[surayu]

It was maybe personal, but they were just trying to save his face

SC

From what my face would need to be saved from? let me know as maybe i am missing something, are you really into those sort of habits?

[surayu]

I don't care if you're happy or not.

I'd just really like a good answer as to why those who hate Thailand and appear miserable here just don't leave.

I mean, it's as if you hated McDonalds, but continued to eat every meal there -- and posted about how disgusting it was each and every time on the McDonalds fanciers website.

I don't get it. I really don't. I lived in China for a while. Hated it. Left. It was all so simple.

Can anyone explain this phenomenon? I'm 100% serious here.

I will explain the phenomenom for you, as i did a bit before

The fact that some people don't care if the others are happy or not it tell alot already, not wanting to face the reality of the many problems afflicting others just because you are having a relatively happy existence it doesn't give you honour as a human being.

I do care if someone else is in trouble or having difficulties, even if that is not affecting me directly and it never will in a million years, many problems could be resolved if people would start caring just a little more but it falls on deaf hears, untill those happy go lucky end up in an unpleasant sort of situation theirselfs and then they start screaming for help, somehow it reminds me of when very young kids are being talked up by their moms on why they should stop doing something as they are still too young to understand the damages that could came up if they carry on with it.

If you have made serious commitments in a place, like having a family, home, business etc.. to give everythings away because you are facing some not pleasant issue, it might not be the more intelligent thing to do, however nobody here i think is pretending you have to make intelligent choices.

As mentioned sooo many times, "complaining" doesn't mean that you "hate" a place, you have to see this as addressing a problem because you care for entity being addressed and you are also making a favour to the rest of the people still unaware of those problems, often the complaints also contain suggestion on how to get a solution, people should be happy to receive complaints in light of this, obviously if you adopt a particular but very well known kind of mentality, where whenever correcting with the best of the intention someone, that someone than take it as an offence, you will not appreciate complaints at all.......

I love Thailand, it's really a "unique" country and my many contributions are a way to give back what i am receiving (in a good way), to deny there are problems taking place or covering them in the end will only hurt the country even more :jap:

[walt]

Does me being white also afford me some benefits? Yes. Does being white also add a really great benefit .... that I am outside of (not above and not below) the Thai social system? Yes. I can associate with everyone from Generals to Tuk-Tuk drivers on a different level than Thais themselves can, just from being outside of the social system. ... Very simply, life is too short to live somewhere where you are unhappy ...

These two points are, in my opinion, centrally important. Existing outside the local social system makes life so much more interesting than if you have been pigeon-holed into a particular slot with accompanying expected behavior within the rigid hierarchical Thai social system. You have more freedom to operate as an individual without being restrained as much as a regular Thai person is. Then, couple that with economic independence, as is the case with many foreigners in Thailand, and you have a really good situation to experience stimulating and relatively safe situations. It is not clear to me how many ex-pats recognize this feature of their Thai experience, but they should.

Live on, jdinasia!

Walt

[kerryk]

I don't care if you're happy or not.

I'd just really like a good answer as to why those who hate Thailand and appear miserable here just don't leave.

I mean, it's as if you hated McDonalds, but continued to eat every meal there -- and posted about how disgusting it was each and every time on the McDonalds fanciers website.

I don't get it. I really don't. I lived in China for a while. Hated it. Left. It was all so simple.

Can anyone explain this phenomenon? I'm 100% serious here.

I also lived in China for several years and very much enjoyed my time there. I remained in Thailand until I felt that for me the positives were overshadowed by the negatives and then I too 'didn't let the door hit my ass on the way out'. Simple indeed.

It never ceases to amuse how Thaiphiles will pounce on anyone who dares to express a negative opinion of the country with the same kind of vigour and disdain that Catholics might reserve for a person who defecates in the Cistine Chapel. I have not encountered this among the expats in any of the other 14 countries in which I have lived and worked. Perhaps someone could explain this phenomenon?

Perhaps the same reason that people who have left Thailand and have left Thailand still post on a Thai centric forum like Thai Visa.

[kerryk]

double post

Edited June 5, 2011 by kerryk

[StreetCowboy]

It was maybe personal, but they were just trying to save his face

SC

From what my face would need to be saved from? let me know as maybe i am missing something, are you really into those sort of habits?

Maybe it was you personally that they objected to, and didn't want your custom, but to avoid loss of face, they pretended that it was not personal and that they would treat any farang that way.

I think its rare that Thai people say everything that they think, and I think its rare that Thai people mean everything that they say. They do, as I understand, have a tendency to be polite in order to avoid conflict. In these three aspects they are not that different from the rest of us, though perhaps these traits may be more pronounced here. I don't know - I'm too insensitive to notice.

SC

Edit: I had hoped not to spell it out, as it could be inferred as an insult to you, but it was not intended as such. More in the spirit of encouragement to think beyond the superficial, and to avoid leaping to negative conclusions about others, and think of possible reasons that things happen.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

I don't care if you're happy or not.

I'd just really like a good answer as to why those who hate Thailand and appear miserable here just don't leave.

I mean, it's as if you hated McDonalds, but continued to eat every meal there -- and posted about how disgusting it was each and every time on the McDonalds fanciers website.

I don't get it. I really don't. I lived in China for a while. Hated it. Left. It was all so simple.

Can anyone explain this phenomenon? I'm 100% serious here.

I also lived in China for several years and very much enjoyed my time there. I remained in Thailand until I felt that for me the positives were overshadowed by the negatives and then I too 'didn't let the door hit my ass on the way out'. Simple indeed.

It never ceases to amuse how Thaiphiles will pounce on anyone who dares to express a negative opinion of the country with the same kind of vigour and disdain that Catholics might reserve for a person who defecates in the Cistine Chapel. I have not encountered this among the expats in any of the other 14 countries in which I have lived and worked. Perhaps someone could explain this phenomenon?

I think the Thaiphiles are caught in a psychological and money trap of their own making. Most do not have the funds to leave (so they are trapped). They sold everything back home and now are invested in Thailand. So, being financially trapped, they pretend to "love it" rather than accept responsibility for a bad decision. Then when a person with options (a person who can move and does not have financial commitments here) states something about the reality of Thailand they do not want to hear, it reminds them of the truth they are suppressing. They can't accept the truth as mentally it makes them weak, so they attack the messenger. It helps if they can attack as a group because that reinforces their false beliefs. It is basic psychology 101.

[Richard4849]

Michaeljordan,

No permanent residence or citizenship track in Thailand? How can you say something so patently uninformed and plain wrong?

Would you like to see the copy of my old Thai PR certificate and the Thai ID I was issued seven years later? The citizenship track has been simplified even more indecent years, so that PR is not required.

I could also show you the title deed I know have with my little old farang name on it, if you want.

You don't try, you don't get.

[Richard4849]

Awoh...a much simpler answer would be that we really do like it here. It's more the unsuccessful people (financially and life-wise) who end up bitter, not those of us who have come here and done well for ourselves.

[soomak]

I don't care if you're happy or not.

I'd just really like a good answer as to why those who hate Thailand and appear miserable here just don't leave.

I mean, it's as if you hated McDonalds, but continued to eat every meal there -- and posted about how disgusting it was each and every time on the McDonalds fanciers website.

I don't get it. I really don't. I lived in China for a while. Hated it. Left. It was all so simple.

Can anyone explain this phenomenon? I'm 100% serious here.

Hi Richard,

I can try to explain why moving to another country might not be that easy as going to another restaurant:

1. You need a visa to stay long term.

In many countries that is not that easy to get.

2. You might have commitments such as a rental contract for 12 months, car lease, etc

Moving to another country before your commitment is finished meaning loosing that money, or otherwise finding someone who is willing to "buy" your commitment.

3. You have to sell all your furniture and equipment, or a car if you have one.

Usually shipping is expensive and problematic.

4. And the most important issue:

The human nature tends to prefer the certain, even if its not that good, over the uncertain.

That is why people stay with a wife they don't like, or keep a job that they hate.

Moving to another country is as challenging as leaving your wife in hope to find a better one.

[Richard4849]

I would think that people would realize they hate a place long before they put down so many roots here that it is difficult to leave.

And visas are never a problem if you go back to your home country.

And there are tons of people who have been miserable and bitter for not just a year, but years and years or decades -- certainly long enough to get out of things like leases.

It takes some money, sure...so sell everything out, get on a plane, go back home, and get on the dole if it's that bad.

No...what I'm now beginning to realize is that most of these miserable gits are addicted to something about Thailand -- usually sex -- that they simply can't give up. Like an addict.

They try to make everyone else miserable with their griping, because misery enjoys company. A sad, infinite downward spiral.

A good reason to stay away from people like this. It's unhealthy.

[Naam]

On the contrary...people who are miserable in Thailand (yet who never seem to do the simple thing and up and leave) seem offended by people who make a successful and happy lives for themselves here -- accusing them of either lying or wearing "rose-colored spectacles".

I can't understand why there are any Thai negativists here at all...if I hated a place, I would find happier hunting grounds and simply not look back. And that includes posting on forums devoted to it.

Oh, right...there are "personal situations" which prevent these people from leaving. Righty-o.

people feeling miserable find consolation by trying to make other people miserable too à la "misery loves company". instead of referring exclusively to their indiviual views and opinions concerning themselves (which is very much acceptable) they are using each and every shitty way, especially assumptions, to point out why those who tolerate or like Thailand have made mistakes by... the list is endless.

having lived and worked in half a dozen countries and checked more than a dozen countries for a place which is most suitable to retire we selected Thailand as it was the best match for the dozens of different single criteria established by us. claiming we love Thailand would be a goddàmn lie. we tolerate (what we consider) Thailand's shortcomings and in exchange we enjoy the positive aspects which outweigh by far all shortcomings.

i can only pity those poor soulds who bitch around in threads like this (there's a dozen more), full of bitterness and envy but trying to hide their true background and reasons by attacking those they call "thaiphil" and, last not least, telling bullshit stories what unfortunate reasons exist (yeah right!) why they haven't left Thailand (yet).

[ccarbaugh]

Does me being white also afford me some benefits? Yes. Does being white also add a really great benefit .... that I am outside of (not above and not below) the Thai social system? Yes. I can associate with everyone from Generals to Tuk-Tuk drivers on a different level than Thais themselves can, just from being outside of the social system. ... Very simply, life is too short to live somewhere where you are unhappy ...

These two points are, in my opinion, centrally important. Existing outside the local social system makes life so much more interesting than if you have been pigeon-holed into a particular slot with accompanying expected behavior within the rigid hierarchical Thai social system. You have more freedom to operate as an individual without being restrained as much as a regular Thai person is. Then, couple that with economic independence, as is the case with many foreigners in Thailand, and you have a really good situation to experience stimulating and relatively safe situations. It is not clear to me how many ex-pats recognize this feature of their Thai experience, but they should.

Live on, jdinasia!

Walt

Agree, Agree - Spot-on both!

[carmine]

My suggestion to you is don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

The classical riposte of an aggrieved Thaiphile. Aggrieved by views which are different to his own.

On the contrary...people who are miserable in Thailand (yet who never seem to do the simple thing and up and leave) seem offended by people who make a successful and happy lives for themselves here -- accusing them of either lying or wearing "rose-colored spectacles".

I can't understand why there are any Thai negativists here at all...if I hated a place, I would find happier hunting grounds and simply not look back. And that includes posting on forums devoted to it.

Oh, right...there are "personal situations" which prevent these people from leaving. Righty-o.

Richard, i've spent some time on this thread this morning. i think its time you grew up. this is not a flame, rather a reaity check.

You've already been given some sound advice on here but you seem very blinkered.

[ExpatJ]

It is what it is in Thailand.

The Thais, many of them, know the laws and the system is all wrong. many of them would like to modernize the nation but you know how that has been going. Coup after coup to keep the people down and to keep things the same is what we have seen.

I used to live and work in Thailand. It was a good party for a single man if you did not mind the down sides. But I noticed at the time how all my friends I worked with would leave. In fact, 95% of the guys who worked at my work place were gone after a decade. I am not kidding. When a guy would have kids, the man would almost always take them back to his home nation. That says a lot about Thailand and it is a big negative statement is it not.

Let us take one example here.

If you are a Thai, not even an immigrant, you can buy land America. You can buy land and own it 100%.

He can also get a green card which is permanent residence. using this, the same Thai can get citizenship in 3 years.

A Farang--derogatory name, cannot do any of this in Thailand.

Thais know their laws are stupid but they hold onto them.

Funny Farang telling us how kind some Thais are. Of course that is true. But the institution of discrimination against Farang is still there. Could you imagine how you would laugh had an American from the Old South defended the unfair laws of the 1960s by saying that many white people in the south are fair and kind? Yes--but the laws and institutions were not fair and kind. When you treat people unfairly based upon race, Nationality, sex, or class, you are a disease. You are part of the problems in this world and not part of the solutions.

If you do stay in Thailand, make friends in high places and you will be OK.

All things can be done if you have the right connections.

But a Farang should not be caught in Thailand should the nation break into a civil war because you would become ROADKILL!

"When a guy would have kids, the man would almost always take them back to his home nation. That says a lot about Thailand "

What this says about thailand is that it costs @15,000 US$ per child per year to send them to a decent school here in Thailand- i have found that most people who go back to their home countries with their kids do it because they cant afford to pay these fees and in fact they would love to stay in Thailand but are putting their kids first. I know because i have just been quoted 22,000 US$ per year for my 5 year old son to go to a school here in bangkok- outrageous, the international schools here have an oligopoly.

[carmine]

My suggestion to you is don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

The classical riposte of an aggrieved Thaiphile. Aggrieved by views which are different to his own.

On the contrary...people who are miserable in Thailand (yet who never seem to do the simple thing and up and leave) seem offended by people who make a successful and happy lives for themselves here -- accusing them of either lying or wearing "rose-colored spectacles".

I can't understand why there are any Thai negativists here at all...if I hated a place, I would find happier hunting grounds and simply not look back. And that includes posting on forums devoted to it.

Oh, right...there are "personal situations" which prevent these people from leaving. Righty-o.

Richard, i've spent some time on this thread this morning. i think its time you grew up. this is not a flame, rather a reaity check.

You've already been given some sound advice on here but you seem very blinkered.

[Richard4849]

Yes...agreed 100%

Although I'm a Thai now (I got my Thai ID card late last year), I'm surprisingly finding many occasions where it works more to my advantage just to pretend to be a "regular farang" still.

Foreigners are so well taken care of here, it is sometimes embarrassing.